View Full Version : Ben Linus...........don't cross the line.
see you in the next life
04-25-08, 12:44 PM
Alright, as one who loves the Benjamin Linus I now have a problem.
I love Desmond and Penny more.
Ben, you can do just about anything.....but don't touch a hair on on Penny's head.
By the way, no way Sayid kills her. He knows all about Penny and Desmond and I'm sure he'll come to learn she is nothing like her father.
Still though, I'm as little worried.
What do the rest of you think?
DarthKitty
04-25-08, 01:02 PM
Surely to God they wouldn't kill Penny. Big mistake if they do.
carmela
04-25-08, 01:13 PM
I am very worried. What has happened to Desmond? Is he with Penny?
It also crossed my mind that Sayid would be sent to execute Penny...and I agree, he will never do it.
DarthKitty
04-25-08, 01:25 PM
I am hoping that Des and Penny are in hiding together.
bigdaddyt98
04-25-08, 01:29 PM
I am very worried. What has happened to Desmond? Is he with Penny?
It also crossed my mind that Sayid would be sent to execute Penny...and I agree, he will never do it.
I think Ben would want to do it himself, preferably in front of Widmore. So it is exactly how it happened to him.
I have a feeling Ben will come around and won`t do it after all. In that moment of hesitation Widmore will kill Ben. I can see Ben dying at some point much later and all of us feeling sad for him mark my words.
scotpgot
04-25-08, 03:34 PM
I don't quite see personal revenge taking the place of the quest he's been on to save the Island.
But that's just me.
Maestra
04-25-08, 03:42 PM
I can see it adding lots of drama, but I don't think Penny will die.
Bob Sacamano
04-25-08, 03:52 PM
To pit them against each other is predictable, though I'm not complaining.
Ben is our favorite villian, Desmond our favorite hero. We want to know more about Ben's past and we want to know about Desmond's future with Penny. Creating this new conflict guarantees that these characters will remain central to story.
Charles has only one love in his live and it isn't his daughter, while Desmond only exists to be with Penny. My guess is that this conflict will resolve itself with Desmond finally shaking the "coward" tag given to him by Widmore.
carmela
04-25-08, 04:01 PM
My guess is that this conflict will resolve itself with Desmond finally shaking the "coward" tag given to him by Widmore.
Yes. Desmond's fate is clearly tied to Ben's declaration to kill Penny. I just hope that Des doesn't die defending her.
Preston
04-25-08, 04:26 PM
OMG, I never thought about that! Ben could send Sayid off to Kill Penny! OMG
bigdaddyt98
04-25-08, 07:36 PM
OMG, I never thought about that! Ben could send Sayid off to Kill Penny! OMG
I really think that Ben wants do it himself, for him it`s eye for an eye, you killed my daughter (basically) now I am going to kill yours. Ben wants to hurt Widmore, killing Penny will do that, he has nothing against Penny herself as we all know.
I get the feeling that Penny is going to join Ben at some point to bring her father down. Ben would get more out of destroying Widmore`s life with the help of Penny I think rather than kill her. We`ll see.
I don't think Sayid would kill Penny at all. Ben, most probably, but sending Sayid wouldn't work. Penny going against her father is a nice idea-it would appeal to Ben's manipulative ways, and possibly cause more hurt than just killing her, but I'm not sure whether his desire for cold-blooded revenge would be too great for that to happen.
If Ben ever succeeds in killing or having Penny killed then Des is gonna go bonkers because Penny is his constant :eek:
Enoch Root
04-25-08, 09:28 PM
I don't know, Sayid has become a half-witted automaton. I wouldn't put it past him to try to kill Penny or Desmond if he stands in his way. His defense... Gulf War Syndrome (on the Iraqi side.) After Nadia's death, he's definitely lost it.
I think of the Manchurian Candidate, and perhaps Sayid will end up taking out Ben then killing himself. Not a great future for Sayid in any case.
DreaminLost
04-25-08, 09:34 PM
If Ben ever succeeds in killing or having Penny killed then Des is gonna go bonkers because Penny is his constant :eek:
Hummm... Is that true? Interesting thought.
Hummm... Is that true? Interesting thought.
In the episode The Constant, Faraday told Des to pick a constant...Des asks if a constant can be a person and then chooses Penny...all that confusion he was going thru jumping 1996 to 2004 to 1996 ceased after he made the phone call the Penny...so Penny is Desmond's constant.
Could happen. Sonya Walger is in fairly high demand, what with her HBO show and her part in The Sarah Connor Chronicles and Lost. Something may have to (but I hope not) give.
This twist in LOST concerns me as well. Penny and Desmond are my favorites. I'd have to seriously consider taking Ben out myself if he kills Pen.
LostHunter
04-26-08, 12:11 AM
Nice thread. Something big struck me after Ben said he was going to kill Penny so Widmore would know how it feels. So remember the episode, "The Economist" ? Sayid trying to weave his way in to kill the economist, and unless I missed something, most people think Widmore is the economist. So, if that is indeed the case, then one could assume at that point in the flash forward that Ben has already been successful in killing Penny....... now, notice I said one could assume. I tend to think something will happen to change Ben's mind, but it is something to contemplate.
DreaminLost
04-26-08, 08:53 PM
In the episode The Constant, Faraday told Des to pick a constant...Des asks if a constant can be a person and then chooses Penny...all that confusion he was going thru jumping 1996 to 2004 to 1996 ceased after he made the phone call the Penny...so Penny is Desmond's constant.
Yeah, I got all that. My question, though, is if you're saying that if Penny dies at any time in the future (which she will, eventually), Desmond will go bonkers?
I thought once he went through the whole incident on the helicopter/freighter and resolved his constant, it was over for good. He's grounded.
magnumhonzo
04-26-08, 09:36 PM
Sayid is out to kill anyone who was connected with Nadia's murder. Ben is out to kill Widmore's daughter(maybe he has more than one?). Ben can't kill Widmore(I don't know why, unless the island won't let him) Widmore seems unable to kill Ben or even have him killed by Keamy. So we go forward with Ben, Sayid, Jack, Kate, Aaron, Hurley, and Sun getting off the Island. Jack goes psycho, Hurley goes to the nut house, Sayid is killing people, while Sun, Kate and Aaron seem to be ok. Lock, Sawyer, Jin, Bernard, Rose, Claire and Juliette are still on the Island. Desmond and Michael are on the frieghter. So where do we go from here? It seems like the story is going to be off Island and that sounds boring. I'd like to know more about Richard and the Temple. Also, how does Smokey work and can Ben and the other Natives control it? What's up with Jacob? What about the numbers? What about Halloway? I don't care about Widmore and I think the series should follow up on the Island mysteries rather than going off Island.
Yeah, I got all that. My question, though, is if you're saying that if Penny dies at any time in the future (which she will, eventually), Desmond will go bonkers?
I thought once he went through the whole incident on the helicopter/freighter and resolved his constant, it was over for good. He's grounded.
You could be correct however my perception was that one needed to have a constant constantly...so Des would need Penny all the time and now Daniel would need Desmond all the time. I think that a person and their constant would have to be in the same time continuum for it to be resolved. I could be way off base...wouldn't be the first time :)
My observation was exactly the same, Dew. They need to be able to maintain a connection to their constant, so that person can act as a 'mental' anchor. A place holder in time? Time anchor? *shrugs*
I don't think they would kill Penny...but it would make things veerrrry interesting.
I don't like Penny much. I think I'm jealous. Lol.
ParadiseChick
04-27-08, 06:36 AM
I think that Penny goes to the island and Widmore is with her. They find Ben and he somehow gets a hold of penny and has the same thing happen to her, like Alex as he said.
Even though Widmore said you won't find her. I think someway that will happen.
LostinIreland
04-27-08, 02:05 PM
I thought Ben doesn't kill innocent people (like Penny).
I agree with some of the other posters, Ben will not kill Penny and this will be his redeeming grace.
DarthKitty
04-27-08, 02:08 PM
I thought Ben doesn't kill innocent people (like Penny).
I agree with some of the other posters, Ben will not kill Penny and this will be his redeeming grace.
True. He has other people do it for him.
Ben's playing a mind game w/ Wildmore. I can see drama leading up to it, but I doubt it'll happen. something has to backfire on Ben eventually. Plus Alex wasn't his real daughter anyway.
mzsandeestar
04-27-08, 05:06 PM
I think if it comes to a showdown about killing Penny that will be late in season 5 or in season 6.
I think the possibility is we are going to learn more about Penny before that.
Maybe she is not really Widmore's daughter.....................?
.......................leaves singing Annie's Song
mzsandeestar
04-27-08, 05:09 PM
Oh I forgot about the title of this thread....
Remember when we first Ben and there seemed to be a rule about he had to stay on his side of the island.
I thought that was what this thread was going to be about.
We have heard references to rules before possibly from both Ben and Danielle...I don't remember exactly.
Enoch Root
04-27-08, 06:18 PM
I didn't think TPTB would kill Danielle in such a meaningless way, and Alex, of course, so I wouldn't put them past killing off Penny.
The rule was that the Losties had to stay on their side of the Island and not 'cross the line' and they would 'not have a problem'.
The other rule'' I can think of was the deal that Mikhail made with the Others. They would leave him in peace if he didn't bother with them. That rule ended up to be a ruse since Mikhail was working for Ben the entire time.
I don't remember about Danielle, but since she denied ever seeing any of them, I'm going to assume she didn't have any contact until proven otherwise.
Alright, as one who loves the Benjamin Linus I now have a problem.
I love Desmond and Penny more.
Ben, you can do just about anything.....but don't touch a hair on on Penny's head.
By the way, no way Sayid kills her. He knows all about Penny and Desmond and I'm sure he'll come to learn she is nothing like her father.
Still though, I'm as little worried.
What do the rest of you think?
It certainly seems like Ben is training Sayid specifically to kill Penelope. He put Sayid in a situation where Sayid had to kill a beautiful young woman in order to save himself, and warned Sayid to remember what happened the last time he failed to pull the trigger. He wants Sayid to be able to kill even when the target appears to be a "friendly". Killing Penny may be the therapy that Sayid needs (if we still want to go the "LOST is a virtual mental hospital" route). For years, Sayid tortured innocent people, including women. He brought them misery, but he never relieved that misery by putting them out of thier misery permanently. He needs to kill an innocent, to virtually end their suffering (life is suffering, Buddhism) so that he can heal.
Sayid will kill Penny, I bet.
For years, Sayid tortured innocent people, including women. He brought them misery, but he never relieved that misery by putting them out of thier misery permanently. He needs to kill an innocent, to virtually end their suffering (life is suffering, Buddhism) so that he can heal.
Sayid will kill Penny, I bet.
Sayid isn't a Buddhist though, he's Islamic.
cacklerjlc
04-28-08, 03:13 AM
Who's to say that Sayid hasn't killed Penny by the time we see him in the Economist. Didn't Ben say something at the end of that episode like "remember what happened the last time your feelings got in the way?" It would be completely possible that this last time is when he was sent to kill Penny. It would be natural for him to have an issue killing her since he has a good relationship with Desmond. But of course if this is the case, Ben never said that the last time the person he was sent to kill was actually killed - assuming I am remembering the conversation correctly. :) I also hope she lives!
yoyoj06
04-28-08, 03:27 AM
i think a sayid finding penny scene will be crucial to the whole story if and when it happens. i think it a scene with those two in the future will finally tell us what the hell is going on, to some degree
Can't wait
04-28-08, 03:32 AM
Who's to say that Sayid hasn't killed Penny by the time we see him in the Economist. Didn't Ben say something at the end of that episode like "remember what happened the last time your feelings got in the way?" It would be completely possible that this last time is when he was sent to kill Penny. It would be natural for him to have an issue killing her since he has a good relationship with Desmond. But of course if this is the case, Ben never said that the last time the person he was sent to kill was actually killed - assuming I am remembering the conversation correctly. :) I also hope she lives!
That is what I thought too. I have been trying to think of what Ben meant by saying "Remeber the last time you thought with your heart" to Sayid when he was sewing him up in the vet office. At first I thought it might have something to do with bringing Naomi's body back to the freighter but now I think it might have something to do with killing Penny and the effects of that on his friendship with Desmond.
I also think if Sayid does kill Penny it will be because Ben tells him a not-completely-true story involving her (thereby giving him a reason for her death other that "an eye for an eye").
That is what I thought too. I have been trying to think of what Ben meant by saying "Remeber the last time you thought with your heart" to Sayid when he was sewing him up in the vet office. At first I thought it might have something to do with bringing Naomi's body back to the freighter but now I think it might have something to do with killing Penny and the effects of that on his friendship with Desmond.
I've been trying to figure out what Ben meant by that too, but I was thinking that it had something to do with Nadia that we didn't know about yet. I really don't want anything worse to happen to Penny or Desmond.
If Lost is following the story of the Oddessy, Penelope being the heroine,
she will not die. She and Desmond will be reunited. There is a thread on
this in theories by Sweet Sun Ray.
Zia, I was thinking Ben might be referring to when Sayid turned in Michael to
the Captain. I hope we will be finding out soon.
Zia, I was thinking Ben might be referring to when Sayid turned in Michael to the Captain. I hope we will be finding out soon.
Hi Annie! Good call. I guess we have to wait and see.
L8O1S5T
04-28-08, 06:26 AM
I think Ben would want to do it himself, preferably in front of Widmore. So it is exactly how it happened to him.
I have a feeling Ben will come around and won`t do it after all. In that moment of hesitation Widmore will kill Ben. I can see Ben dying at some point much later and all of us feeling sad for him mark my words.
TPTB know how the audience thinks so they have probably thought of that senario which means they won't go down that road. They may make it look that way but pull a twist and have someone else do it.
GardenMom
04-28-08, 06:32 AM
We have heard references to rules before possibly from both Ben and Danielle...I don't remember exactly.
For what it is worth, here is another Ben quote about "rules" at Juliet's trial for shooting Pickett.
S3E9
Isabel: Ben has commuted Juliet's sentence. Execution is off the table. He says the rules don't apply. He has, however, ordered her to be marked.
And it looks like Locke is making some rules too. Which doesn't surprise me, since he is becoming more Ben-like every day.
S4E4
Locke: I realize that when I tied you up in here the other day, I made the mistake of failing to introduce myself. My name is John Locke, and I'm responsible for the well being of this island. Eventually, Miles, you're going to tell me who you are, and you're going to tell me about the people on the boat, and your going to tell me why you're so interested in Ben. In the meantime, however, you're going to keep your mouth shut. I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast.
Isn't it weird how Locke's sarcastic little speech to his prisoner Miles sounds so similar in tone to Ben's speech to Jack at the Hydra?
S3E2
Ben: I want for you to change your at... perspective. And, the first step in doing that would be for me to be decent enough to introduce myself honestly, so... Hi, my name is Benjamin Linus and I've lived on this island all my life. You're not gonna shake?
That is what I thought too. I have been trying to think of what Ben meant by saying "Remeber the last time you thought with your heart" to Sayid when he was sewing him up in the vet office. At first I thought it might have something to do with bringing Naomi's body back to the freighter but now I think it might have something to do with killing Penny and the effects of that on his friendship with Desmond.
I agree with you that the "remember the last time you thought with your heart instead of your head" line may refer to a Penny/Desmond incident. I would interpret it as meaning Sayid's "heart" prevents him from killing Penny because of his friendship with Desmond.
Now that we know time travel is possible, what if Ben's recruitment of Sayid involves sending Sayid backward in time to kill Penny - thereby preventing her from ever trying to find Desmond, talking to Charlie, calling the freighter, etc. Widmore may actually be getting a lot of information about how to find the island from his own daughter as she desperately searches for Des. If Sayid had used his "head" and killed Penny earlier in the timeline, maybe the whole freighter attack would fail to happen.
I'm thinking that Ben may have been planning to use Sayid's skills for a while now. Was it just a coincidence that it was Sayid who discovered Ben's secret closet? Or was that exactly what Ben had planned when Hurley was used to lure Sayid right to Ben's house?
Why did I think that the way Sayid was recruited was what Ben meant by 'last time you thought with your heart'...Ben bamboozled Sayid.
LoonyLuna
04-28-08, 08:27 PM
I swear to bob, if they kill off Desmond OR Penny i will personally fly to hawaii and kick both Damon and Carlton in the nads.
I swear to bob, if they kill off Desmond OR Penny i will personally fly to hawaii and kick both Damon and Carlton in the nads.
*sells tickets for this grand event* :D
LoonyLuna
04-28-08, 09:41 PM
*sells tickets for this grand event* :D
Tickets to penny and desmonds death or me kicking them in the nads? :D If its the second choice, i promise it'll be a really really good kick. New Yorkers ftw.
Tickets to penny and desmonds death or me kicking them in the nads? :D If its the second choice, i promise it'll be a really really good kick. New Yorkers ftw.
Second choice, of course...I can just picture it :coffeedunk:
Tickets to penny and desmonds death or me kicking them in the nads? :D If its the second choice, i promise it'll be a really really good kick. New Yorkers ftw.
LOL Luna! WIN!! I feel comforted by that. :)
LoonyLuna
04-29-08, 04:03 PM
LOL Luna! WIN!! I feel comforted by that. :)
Hahaha I'll wear boots :Cheers:
ParadiseChick
05-09-08, 06:22 AM
Hahaha I'll wear boots :Cheers:
hahaha:rotfl:
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