View Full Version : Claire abandons Aaron? Say it ain't so!
okay, i'm supposed to be believe that claire just went off into the jungle of her own free will, leaving her "bay-bee" behind? or that christian (or jacob in his "christian" costume) wanted her to abandon her child to the care of sawyer and miles?
i'm willing to suspend disbelief, but i'd rather not be hung by the neck.
Hey it's all good. Miles is good with kids.
I was thinking the same thing, and how does an apparition pick up and hold a baby anyway? That was a bizarre scene. It appeared that someone/something gave it some thought and placed Aaron in a safe place as well. It was all very strange.
Those weren't leaves. They were Claire. She finally ran out of hot air and just shriveled up.
Unlocke Locke
05-02-08, 08:13 AM
The scene reminded me alot of S1 when she was kidnapped. Could be she was lured away again as she put Aaron down just briefly to find out what was going on with her dad. Just as Christian led Jack through the jungle to ultimately find fresh water, so too, Christian was luring Claire to something which we have not learned about yet.
I like that idea, good call.
Green Arrow
05-02-08, 10:05 AM
I don't know if I like this yet.
Sure, it could explain why Claire left Aaron and fulfill my fantasies about her being alive and well on the Island. But I don't like to think that Claire would abandon Aaron like that.
Maybe she was confused and the wound on her head is playing up. I suppose she's finally getting a storyline, Can't complain.
dharmapup2
05-02-08, 12:17 PM
This was a super creepy scene! It sure looked like that apparation was Jacob wearing his Christian mask. I don't know how an apparition holds a baby but I'm no expert in supernatural phenomena, if it was supernatural at all. Perhaps Miles drugged Claire? He was staring at her and Aaron alot and then Sawyer threatened him.
LOST lunatic
05-02-08, 12:58 PM
Lets ignore the fact that Miles is supposed to be "sensitive" to people and spirits if you will. He wasn't able to tell that there was something funny about the person Claire left with??????? I do not believe it. And he just let her go!!!!! Dang him!!!! CLaire must have known she was being led somewhere bad and chose to leave Aaron behind for Sawyer to find. She would not do so otherwise.
Once again this proves that the Others never had to kidnap anybody, the losties are more than willing to waltz into the jungle of doom at night with anybody. (Sun and Juliet, I'm looking at you.)
I'm sure Claire leaving behind Aaron was suppose to be WOW-moment and when we get a Claire flashback or something we'll understand why she left Aaron, and it will be some simple reason. Like Christian will lay him there and tell Claire he will be safe they have something important to do, and Claire in an almost drugged-up state will agree and follow him.
As for apparitions holding someone....if it was smokie as Christian, we know smokie can hold people (Eko) and be seen by more than one person (Shannon and Sayid). If it was Jacob, we don't know anything about Jacob, so he could very well hold things.
BostonLost
05-02-08, 04:15 PM
okay, i'm supposed to be believe that claire just went off into the jungle of her own free will, leaving her "bay-bee" behind? or that christian (or jacob in his "christian" costume) wanted her to abandon her child to the care of sawyer and miles?
i'm willing to suspend disbelief, but i'd rather not be hung by the neck.
Who's to say she went off on her own free will? She may have been lured away from Sawyer and Miles by daddy, then taken against her will to wherever they went.
LostCroc
05-02-08, 04:20 PM
Humour me here- Locke was shot by Ben and seemingly recovered from a fatal wound. Could Claire have actually been killed in the explosion? That would explain why she could leave Aaron. I'm just reaching here because that is the hardest part of the whole thing to swallow. She is a great mom and it's not logical for her to leave Aaron.
interplanetjanet
05-02-08, 04:42 PM
Timeline:
Claire wakes up and Aaron is missing. She sees him held by Christian. "Dad?"
Claire gets up and goes after Christian and Aaron, per Myles. (I think this really happens, but she may feel it's a dream, especially after her concussion.)
Aaron is left in the jungle not far away.
Because Claire would not abandon Aaron, it's clear she was kidnapped, either crudely (wack on head again) or with mystical drugging stuff. I have no doubt she's alive; what's perplexing is who wants her but not Aaron? Especially since Aaron is a nursing infant?
I think it's very significant that Christian had Aaron when she woke up. She has no positive relationship with Christian, remember. His appearing with her baby in his arms, dreaming or waking, would be terrifying and certainly get her moving--but not yelling for help if it meant Christian could run off with Aaron before she got to them.
No, this really works. Christian appearing and saying "shh, get Aaron and follow me" would be dumb. But Christian abducting his grandchild with a frightened, concussive Claire close behind, to abduct her for some job the island wants done? This is how to get Claire.
I wish they could find her a plotline without stealing the baby, but I see the logic.
Claire doesn't know who Christian is, I believe. Did she have a step father?? Cuz it didn't look like Christian to me. Maybe a screencap will prove me wrong, though.
Claire and Christian met while she was in the hospital after the accident. He went to the tat/piercing shop where she worked. They had coffee. She knows who he is.
hofner36
05-02-08, 05:14 PM
Humour me here- Locke was shot by Ben and seemingly recovered from a fatal wound. Could Claire have actually been killed in the explosion? That would explain why she could leave Aaron. I'm just reaching here because that is the hardest part of the whole thing to swallow. She is a great mom and it's not logical for her to leave Aaron.
I think you're right, and the kicker for me, is that Miles...who 10 minutes earlier PROVED he could see dead people, was SO curious about Clair to the point that Sawyer had to warn hime off. Miles even offered to take the baby. I believe Clair IS dead, and Aaron is alive, which is why Christian appeared and convinced clair to leave the baby.
The next BIG question, is, did JACK die in the Appendix operation? THIS could be why Jack can't raise Aaron, and also keeps seeing his Dad - he could be dead.
I think this could be more complex than we expect...
Yup, and that was definitely "Christian."
LOST lunatic
05-02-08, 05:34 PM
Oiy, now we have to keep track of who is really alive and whi is dead but appearing alive? Yikes!! But if this is true how did Sawyer see her?
IMLOSTRU?
05-02-08, 05:39 PM
Claire doesn't know who Christian is, I believe. Did she have a step father?? Cuz it didn't look like Christian to me. Maybe a screencap will prove me wrong, though.
Wow. Did you miss a whole season?
IMLOSTRU?
05-02-08, 05:43 PM
I think you're right, and the kicker for me, is that Miles...who 10 minutes earlier PROVED he could see dead people, was SO curious about Clair to the point that Sawyer had to warn hime off. Miles even offered to take the baby. I believe Clair IS dead, and Aaron is alive, which is why Christian appeared and convinced clair to leave the baby.
The next BIG question, is, did JACK die in the Appendix operation? THIS could be why Jack can't raise Aaron, and also keeps seeing his Dad - he could be dead.
I think this could be more complex than we expect...'
Then that would make this show completely unreliable.
LostCroc
05-02-08, 06:00 PM
Sawyer can see Claire the same way the everybody else can see Locke!! I think Hurley is right. They are all dead. It doesn't mean I believe in the Purgatory theory (Sorry, I killed a kitten; but, I'm a dog lover anyway.)
THIS could be why Jack can't raise Aaron, and also keeps seeing his Dad - he could be dead.
I must have missed this. When was Matt Fox replaced by Bruce Willis?
longlostluvr
05-02-08, 06:27 PM
I think you're right, and the kicker for me, is that Miles...who 10 minutes earlier PROVED he could see dead people, was SO curious about Clair to the point that Sawyer had to warn hime off. Miles even offered to take the baby. I believe Clair IS dead, and Aaron is alive, which is why Christian appeared and convinced clair to leave the baby.
Love it. But haven't we been told time and time again (since Day One to be more specific) that they are NOT dead?
It makes for an interesting twist, but I get the feeling that once again they are leading us down the old primrose path. Afterall, we have a couple of more seasons ahead of us and I cannot imagine them giving it away with a simple (unmedicated) explanation from Hurley. However, it would not surprise me at all if they continued this development and left us guessing in a very big way for the season finale.
As for apparitions holding someone....if it was smokie as Christian, we know smokie can hold people (Eko) and be seen by more than one person (Shannon and Sayid). If it was Jacob, we don't know anything about Jacob, so he could very well hold things.
Good call, Cranky. (and Hi!) It would make a lot more sense if it was Smokey in disguise. If Aaron is indeed so special, then why leave him in the jungle?
I was thinking the same thing, and how does an apparition pick up and hold a baby anyway? That was a bizarre scene.
The same way an apparition smacks Hurley in the face!:wink:
IMLOSTRU?
05-02-08, 06:53 PM
Why is it so hard to believe that Aaron can't levitate?
http://www.thelemacoasttocoast.com/images/content/Postcard45.jpg
hofner36
05-02-08, 06:54 PM
The same way an apparition smacks Hurley in the face!:wink:
Maybe the BIGGEST clue we've had, is Charlie's line to Hurley.
I am DEAD, but I'm also HERE!
Green Arrow
05-02-08, 07:00 PM
Claire isn't dead.
You think she'd be a little more... not breathing.
I'm going to withhold judgment, until I learn what happened.
Randy Nations
05-02-08, 07:25 PM
Humour me here- Locke was shot by Ben and seemingly recovered from a fatal wound. Could Claire have actually been killed in the explosion? That would explain why she could leave Aaron. I'm just reaching here because that is the hardest part of the whole thing to swallow. She is a great mom and it's not logical for her to leave Aaron.
I'm right there with you! I couldn't understand how she walked away from the explosion with really minor or no injuries. several people reminded me that she did have some injuries and this was my response. I just posted it on the Episode thread:
You're the second person to remind me of this. And you're right, she did have some minor visible injuries. I guess what I'm saying is, to survive an explosion that completely destroyed the structure she was in, struck me as odd. And then, for her to walking and talking right after was even stranger. No broken bones, anything. So, if the writers are still as brilliant as I think they are, her "survival" wasn't what it seemed.
I threw something out earlier, which I'm even now more convinced of. I think she had internal injuries and was dying. She was dizzy, maybe head trauma, internal bleeding. Miles (the ghost man) was observing her strangely (maybe knowing she was dying) when she was holding Aaron. Later, she sees her dead father and walks away with him. Miles (the ghost man) lets her go, because she's meant to go with him, because she has died.
Now, it's certainly not as simple as this (never is), but it's my theory for now (it'll change).
Humour me here- Locke was shot by Ben and seemingly recovered from a fatal wound. Could Claire have actually been killed in the explosion? That would explain why she could leave Aaron. I'm just reaching here because that is the hardest part of the whole thing to swallow. She is a great mom and it's not logical for her to leave Aaron.
I think you're right, and the kicker for me, is that Miles...who 10 minutes earlier PROVED he could see dead people, was SO curious about Clair to the point that Sawyer had to warn hime off. Miles even offered to take the baby. I believe Clair IS dead, and Aaron is alive, which is why Christian appeared and convinced clair to leave the baby.
The next BIG question, is, did JACK die in the Appendix operation? THIS could be why Jack can't raise Aaron, and also keeps seeing his Dad - he could be dead.
I think this could be more complex than we expect...
I'm aboard this ship. Claire died when the RPG blew up her cabin. The Island manifested (is that the right word?) her the same way as Yemi, Christian, and the Black Horse. Miles kept watching and looking at Claire because he knew something was wrong about her or that he knew she was dead but was confused about how she was able to move around and hold Aaron. When Christian appeard, he convinced Claire that she was dead and they left the baby for Sawyer to find.
Wow my head is spinning with this thread. I agree that Claire walking away from that explosion is unreal (just like a plane crashing with so many survivors). But I can't imagine dead and alive people just walking around on the island.
I posted here (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2131748#post2131748)that I think maybe the dead people we are seeing (like Christian) are not ghosts, but are teleporting from the future with deals made by Ben. That still doesn't explain why Claire would leave Aaron unless forced to.
Green Arrow
05-02-08, 08:55 PM
Can't everyone just accept that the Island wants her alive and has chosen to protect her?
I can accept it Lostaway :)
Green Arrow
05-02-08, 09:14 PM
I love you...
Not really, but thanks for agreeing with me :D
Patrick
05-02-08, 09:15 PM
Claire was clearly outside the house when the explosion hit. I don't find it implausible that she lived.
LOST lunatic
05-02-08, 09:23 PM
Was she outside? I thought she was found inside under the rubble.
interplanetjanet
05-02-08, 09:34 PM
I third Lostaway, and thought she was in the backyard.
Given that Sawyer was enacting the classic movie hero sprint through a hail of bullets, with bullet-proof picnic tables no less, Claire surviving an explosion is small potatoes.
Hollysasquatch
05-02-08, 09:53 PM
Love it. But haven't we been told time and time again (since Day One to be more specific) that they are NOT dead?
It makes for an interesting twist, but I get the feeling that once again they are leading us down the old primrose path. Afterall, we have a couple of more seasons ahead of us and I cannot imagine them giving it away with a simple (unmedicated) explanation from Hurley. However, it would not surprise me at all if they continued this development and left us guessing in a very big way for the season finale.
I think if they were all dead, Miles would be freaking out like he did when he first discovered the bodies of Danielle and Carl.
I think if they were all dead, Miles would be freaking out like he did when he first discovered the bodies of Danielle and Carl.
or like he was when he kept looking at Claire. I think knew she was dead but couldn't figure out how she was talking to everyone else, holding Aaron ect ect.
In "The Shape of Things to Come" Didn't Miles say something like "I wouldn't be too sure" to Claire after someone ask her if she was alright and she said "I'll Live"?
I wasn't too sure about this until I saw Goodspeed (who is dead) talking to Locke
Unlocke Locke
05-02-08, 10:33 PM
Claire was clearly outside the house when the explosion hit. I don't find it implausible that she lived.
No she was found inside under a blanket. And last night, all she had was a little bandage on her forehead
Green Arrow
05-03-08, 01:50 AM
I doubt she's dead. If she's dead, Locke is dead.
I don't like purgatory and I thought that the smoke detector confirmed that the rising from the dead is smokey.
crumpet
05-03-08, 02:10 AM
I'm aboard this ship. Claire died when the RPG blew up her cabin. The Island manifested (is that the right word?) her the same way as Yemi, Christian, and the Black Horse. Miles kept watching and looking at Claire because he knew something was wrong about her or that he knew she was dead but was confused about how she was able to move around and hold Aaron. When Christian appeard, he convinced Claire that she was dead and they left the baby for Sawyer to find.
Christian Shepard is like the Angel of Death, lol. It reminds me much like Meet Joe Black where Brad Pitt leads Anthony Hopkins away. Come to think of it, Kate does look a tad bit like Claire Forlani too, haha.
villana81
05-03-08, 02:50 AM
or like he was when he kept looking at Claire. I think knew she was dead but couldn't figure out how she was talking to everyone else, holding Aaron ect ect.
In "The Shape of Things to Come" Didn't Miles say something like "I wouldn't be too sure" to Claire after someone ask her if she was alright and she said "I'll Live"?
I wasn't too sure about this until I saw Goodspeed (who is dead) talking to Locke
omgg it actually could happen i mean the guy that Locke and Ben go to see says that he has been dead for 12 years, right? so maybe he wasn't joking. I'm really hoping Claire is not dead :(
Verite Garde
05-03-08, 03:38 AM
Claire was clearly outside the house when the explosion hit. I don't find it implausible that she lived.
Clearly, huh?:)
Hate to tell you but she was most definitely inside what was left of the house. On the floor under a blanket or something.
'
Then that would make this show completely unreliable.
Hence the excellent thread on the unreliable narrator in LOST ...
But seriously, LOST is a puzzle story, a mystery. It's not about what happens so much as what's really happening. Most of it is smoke and mirrors. The only TV show I've ever seen like it was the Twilight Zone, especially the "Five Characters In Search of an Exit" episode.
Whatever Charlie is, Christian is, I think. Charlie can apply physical force, as we saw when he slapped Hurley. If these characters are "dead" it's not in the sense we normally think of as dead.
Miles is on the island (story-wise) for stuff like we just watched. Since he claims to be a ghost whisperer, it's possible that Claire is dead. But if that's the case, then Sawyer is dead too, because he could see Claire and he's no ghost whisperer. Jack saw Sawyer, according to Jack, so again with this reasoning Jack is dead.
However, what do we really know about Miles? Since when has he "seen" spirits as living, breathing people? He "heard" Danielle and Karl supposedly, but we've never "seen" a materialized spirit from his PoV. I don't think Miles can "see dead people" in the Sixth Sense sort of way, so using him as "proof" of Claire's death just doesn't wash. Claire isn't dead just because a spirit talker happens to be around. His presence is supposed to make us suspect it---again, all smoke and mirrors.
"Dead" Charlie slapped Hurley. This doesn't appear to be common "ghostly" behavior. Of course, if Hurley is right and he's dead too, it's all a moot point. Then we have a remake of the William Shatner ghost film Sole Survivor about ghosts haunting a plane crash in the desert.
Let's hope LOST is more than that ...
Clearly, huh?:)
Hate to tell you but she was most definitely inside what was left of the house. On the floor under a blanket or something.
That house was kindling. Even for a breakaway set it seemed flimsy. An explosive shell might go through it and explode when it eventually hit something solid. People survive all kinds of crap, anyways. An infant was run over by a tractor once, flattened out like a pancake, and he just popped back into shape without a scratch on him. Of course, the problem with that kind of thing is it should be incredibly rare, not happening every other day on the island. For now I'm just assuming that most of what's happening in LOST is staged. Look how often Ben makes sure that someone will be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Alex, Karl, and Danielle were following his map when they were ambushed, Locke showed up on the mountain just in time to throw a knife into Naomi, Tom and Co. follow Ben's plan and get gunned down, Mikhail on the sub, etc. The island deaths are mostly orchestrated by Ben, dating all the way back to the purge.
No she was found inside under a blanket. And last night, all she had was a little bandage on her forehead
watch it again, dear. claire was behind the house, hanging laundry when the house exploded. she's lying on grass, covered with and surrounded by laundry. there's even a clothesline.
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season4/4x09/normal_4x09-cap311.jpg
Rachael Leigh
05-03-08, 11:11 AM
I keeping thinking Claire's dead until i remember....her destiny is to raise Aaron, Jack needs a BIG reason to return to the island, Desmond's future vision of Claire resued by a helicoper and would Charlie really die for nothing?
Jacob may have separated Claire from Aaron but it that a reason to bring the O6 back to the island in the future? Is that the plan or is Claire more special that Aaron?
There's too much mystery around Claire for her to die just yet.
Rachael Leigh
05-03-08, 11:18 AM
...not forgetting Claire's dream from 'raised by another';
CLAIRE: What's happening?
LOCKE: You know what's happening.
CLAIRE: But I don't understand. Why --?
LOCKE: He was your responsibility but you gave him away, Claire. Everyone pays the price now.
sleep_deprived
05-03-08, 12:16 PM
what's really going through my mind is: "WTF does Christian say that makes Claire leave Aaron?" (assuming it was voluntary)
DarthKitty
05-03-08, 01:32 PM
That house was kindling. Even for a breakaway set it seemed flimsy. An explosive shell might go through it and explode when it eventually hit something solid. People survive all kinds of crap, anyways. An infant was run over by a tractor once, flattened out like a pancake, and he just popped back into shape without a scratch on him. Of course, the problem with that kind of thing is it should be incredibly rare, not happening every other day on the island. For now I'm just assuming that most of what's happening in LOST is staged. Look how often Ben makes sure that someone will be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Alex, Karl, and Danielle were following his map when they were ambushed, Locke showed up on the mountain just in time to throw a knife into Naomi, Tom and Co. follow Ben's plan and get gunned down, Mikhail on the sub, etc. The island deaths are mostly orchestrated by Ben, dating all the way back to the purge.
:yikes:
LOST lunatic
05-03-08, 02:18 PM
...not forgetting Claire's dream from 'raised by another';
CLAIRE: What's happening?
LOCKE: You know what's happening.
CLAIRE: But I don't understand. Why --?
LOCKE: He was your responsibility but you gave him away, Claire. Everyone pays the price now.
I had forgotten about this conversation. But I am so curious as to what this price is!
DarthKitty
05-03-08, 02:20 PM
Great catch! I think there are many things that will take on whole other meanings when the old episodes are re-watched after season 4.
Green Arrow
05-03-08, 06:43 PM
I think the ABC promo with Locke and Horace is just a dream.
mzsandeestar
05-03-08, 07:56 PM
The possibility that Claire just left Aaron is not believable.
One possiblity is that Claire is dead after the explosion , but Aaron is alive and so Christian (or Jacob) needed to seperate them.
Another possibility is that Christian (or Jacob) is the on the side of the "bad guys" and does not want Aaron on the island to save the world or whatever it is that the psychic saw. So Jacob sends Christian to lure Claire away and leaves Aaron knowing that the survivors will make sure he gets off the island.
SuperOrange
05-03-08, 08:05 PM
I think she was somehow brainwashed? Smokey has somekind of electromagnetic power, like a big microwave for your brain?
LOL that just made no sense. I know nothing about magnets.
Verite Garde
05-03-08, 08:16 PM
The island deaths are mostly orchestrated by Ben, dating all the way back to the purge.
Can't get any closer to the truth than that. Ben is THE master manipulater of all time.
But this time Ben was caught by surprise.
rknorton91
05-03-08, 08:19 PM
I must admit they are doing a pretty good job of making it look like all of them may really be dead but still existing in some sort of time loop or in a new dimensional space. However I hate to really adopt that line of thought yet at this time.
The question is if they were in fact dead how is it that real people can see them during their FF when they are back home again?
vonnegut
05-03-08, 08:30 PM
'
Then that would make this show completely unreliable.
*cues lacenaire*
What we saw was Claire waking up to find her father holding Aaron, but was that real? She's not fully recovered from the explosion so her behavior may not be anywhere near normal. If he or something that looked like him had the baby in her stupor she may have just followed unable to fully grasp reality.
Miles said she wandered off with someone she called Dad but was he telling all he knew? We don't know his real agenda, they didn't need a Ghost Whisperer to get Ben. He may have been a part of her disappearance. Sawyer's "restraining order" wouldn't stop him for waking Sawyer or going after her. We don't know what his real purpose is and what he knows about Aaron.
Claire was taken once before and returned with no memory, the Other's screwed with her head. Whatever happened Claire didn't just wake up, think "Oh great there's the father I didn't want anywhere near me holding my baby. Since grandfather has the kid I'll use this time for a little R&R and wander off to see if I can find the Dharma spa hatch."
Verite Garde
05-03-08, 09:01 PM
watch it again, dear. claire was behind the house, hanging laundry when the house exploded. she's lying on grass, covered with and surrounded by laundry. there's even a clothesline.
Hey, no need for rudeness. Some people only get to watch it once and memory isn't perfect. Are you? ;)
Regarding the Claire reasoning we have to remember that Aaron was in the jungle away from the others all alone under a tree. If Christian is appearing to Jack then he's appearing to Claire in the same way. And if he's like Charlie, he can physically do things, i.e. Charlie slapping Hurley.
That means he could have been actually holding the child like we saw.
IMLOSTRU?
05-03-08, 09:11 PM
*cues lacenaire*
That is exactly who that was meant for.
Hence the excellent thread on the unreliable narrator in LOST ...
But seriously, LOST is a puzzle story, a mystery. It's not about what happens so much as what's really happening. Most of it is smoke and mirrors. The only TV show I've ever seen like it was the Twilight Zone, especially the "Five Characters In Search of an Exit" episode.
Whatever Charlie is, Christian is, I think. Charlie can apply physical force, as we saw when he slapped Hurley. If these characters are "dead" it's not in the sense we normally think of as dead.
Miles is on the island (story-wise) for stuff like we just watched. Since he claims to be a ghost whisperer, it's possible that Claire is dead. But if that's the case, then Sawyer is dead too, because he could see Claire and he's no ghost whisperer. Jack saw Sawyer, according to Jack, so again with this reasoning Jack is dead.
However, what do we really know about Miles? Since when has he "seen" spirits as living, breathing people? He "heard" Danielle and Karl supposedly, but we've never "seen" a materialized spirit from his PoV. I don't think Miles can "see dead people" in the Sixth Sense sort of way, so using him as "proof" of Claire's death just doesn't wash. Claire isn't dead just because a spirit talker happens to be around. His presence is supposed to make us suspect it---again, all smoke and mirrors.
"Dead" Charlie slapped Hurley. This doesn't appear to be common "ghostly" behavior. Of course, if Hurley is right and he's dead too, it's all a moot point. Then we have a remake of the William Shatner ghost film Sole Survivor about ghosts haunting a plane crash in the desert.
Let's hope LOST is more than that ...
I agree that Lost is alot of smoke and mirrors as you say and TBTB may be using Miles as a decoy of sorts to lead us down the wrong path. I also agree with you in that what ever Charlie is, Christian is and it may play a variation on "dead" as we know it.
However I don't buy your logic in that only dead can see or talk to the "dead", or have to be a ghost whisperer to see, talk, or interact with the "dead" people. Jack see's Christian and I don't think Jack is dead becasue he interacts with others(bad choice of word) at the hospital. Hurley interacts with others at the mental hospital and inteacts with Charlie, and I don't believe Hurley is dead. So by your logic either nobody (and when I say nobody I mean those who are dead but are able to be seen, not Paulo and Nikki dead) is dead or everbody is dead, which I don't think to be the case. But I guess we'll all find out next week :D
watch it again, dear. claire was behind the house, hanging laundry when the house exploded. she's lying on grass, covered with and surrounded by laundry. there's even a clothesline.
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season4/4x09/normal_4x09-cap311.jpg
Wow, I am so glad I read this. I have watched it twice and BOTH times I thought she was inside of the house and it didn't make any sense! I even thought, wow that must have been some explosion to blow the floor planks off and expose the grass!
ReganSahaya
05-03-08, 10:16 PM
Perhaps a previous poster was right, and Claire did have internal injuries and was dying, which Miles could sense. But I don't think Christian came to take Claire because she had died; I think that maybe she was taken to be healed.
Hey, no need for rudeness. Some people only get to watch it once and memory isn't perfect. Are you? ;)
that wasn't rudeness. the post i responded to was
Clearly, huh?:)
Hate to tell you but she was most definitely inside what was left of the house. On the floor under a blanket or something.rudeness would be pointing out that only a drooling idiot would use the phrase "most definitely" regarding a scene they had only watched once.
see the difference?
glad to help.
Verite Garde
05-04-08, 12:33 AM
that wasn't rudeness. the post i responded to was
rudeness would be pointing out that only a drooling idiot would use the phrase "most definitely" regarding a scene they had only watched once.
see the difference?
glad to help.
You are obviously thrilled about your own return according to your signature.
lach's back!!!
Who cares?
I would say according to your lack of humor and friendliness nobody.
Name calling and personal attacks are no sign of intelligence, DEARY. ;)
I was nice and added a smiley so you wouldn't take it the wrong way, but I see such things are lost on you.
By the way, I was speaking for the many who do only watch once. I watched the scene more than once but still thought she was inside - like many others here did.
RangerMel
05-04-08, 04:26 AM
Shouldn't we save all our anger for the looooong hiatus when it will be most entertaining?
The possibility that Claire just left Aaron is not believable.
One possiblity is that Claire is dead after the explosion , but Aaron is alive and so Christian (or Jacob) needed to seperate them.
Another possibility is that Christian (or Jacob) is the on the side of the "bad guys" and does not want Aaron on the island to save the world or whatever it is that the psychic saw. So Jacob sends Christian to lure Claire away and leaves Aaron knowing that the survivors will make sure he gets off the island.
Thats exactly what I thought mzsandeestar. Claire gets lured away by Christian - Sawyer wakes and she is gone, so he takes Aaron back to the beach, to safety, so that he can then search for Claire or whatever ...... But I think Claire is still alive, at the moment. I have no idea why !
Maybe the fact that he has been taken back to the mainland is the reason that things do not appear to be going so well for the 06, because they inadvertently took Aaron where he was not supposed to be, without his mother. I always reckoned that Kate's words after she helped deliver him about "him belonging to all of us now" was prophetic and wrong. Claire has not abandoned Aaron, she is up against forces she can't control, and now that Charlie has gone, Sawyer seems to be her only salvation.
LOST lunatic
05-04-08, 05:01 AM
I thought she was inside if that helps.
s'okay, crandy-- i promised to be on my best behavior.
verite, you silly troll, you aren't entertaining enough to tempt me. go bore someone else.
back on topic--
i still find it very peculiar that claire and aaron have been separated. it seems unlikely that claire would leave aaron voluntarily....but if she was taken, why would her kidnapper take her and NOT aaron?
whose purpose does it serve to have aaron "raised by another"?
does separating aaron from claire serve good or evil?
whose purpose does it serve to have aaron "raised by another"?
The Evil Corporation of your choice ! That is why Locke and Malkin were so insistent that she must raise the child herself. Only her innate goodness could save the child from his evil prophesy.
The Evil Corporation of your choice ! That is why Locke and Malkin were so insistent that she must raise the child herself. Only her innate goodness could save the child from his evil prophesy.
But now Dead Charlie and Hurley have re-opened this can of worms, and it's possible that Jack and Kate are the "others" who aren't supposed to raise Aaron. This may be the major reason Jack wants to return to the island, to reunite Claire and Aaron. (And he might figure that the only way to compete with Sawyer for Kate's love is be around Sawyer; he can't compete with a memory, no one can).
I'm not in the "Claire is dead" camp, but I don't have any explanation for her disappearance, either. Christian held the baby and seemed genuinely delighted to be holding his grandchild. It's him (to some degree at least) not a ghost. I don't think he'd put Claire or the baby in harm's way, so Claire's disappearance must be for the greater good. I think it's another case like Danielle's; it's necessary that Widmore thinks these women are dead, and he has incredible, even paranormal, resources (as evidenced by Miles). In order for Widmore to believe that Claire is dead, her friends have to believe it themselves.
There's probably no way to "hide" Aaron from Widmore, so Christian arranges that he'll end up with Jack and Kate, who will be among the O6. If Aaron turns out to have powers rivaling or exceeding Walts, he's probably like a psychic lighthouse; anyone with ability would spot him from miles away. He has to end up off island because he can't be hidden.
Widmore will follow the O6 when they return to the island, but we can be sure that Ben will have laid the grand-daddy of all traps.
tea&toast
05-04-08, 10:48 AM
I am bothered by how Aaron is going to be fed without Claire around.
Green Arrow
05-04-08, 11:22 AM
Thats exactly what I thought mzsandeestar. Claire gets lured away by Christian - Sawyer wakes and she is gone, so he takes Aaron back to the beach, to safety, so that he can then search for Claire or whatever ...... But I think Claire is still alive, at the moment. I have no idea why !
Maybe the fact that he has been taken back to the mainland is the reason that things do not appear to be going so well for the 06, because they inadvertently took Aaron where he was not supposed to be, without his mother. I always reckoned that Kate's words after she helped deliver him about "him belonging to all of us now" was prophetic and wrong. Claire has not abandoned Aaron, she is up against forces she can't control, and now that Charlie has gone, Sawyer seems to be her only salvation.
Mainly because everyone else who is dead on the Island don't go walking around in reality still thinking they're alive. It'd be stupid if that was the case, and I'd feel cheated, if they're going to kill her off at least don't get our hopes up that she's still alive.
I am bothered by how Aaron is going to be fed without Claire around.
Good point! I wonder if there's any Dharma branded baby milk or food back at the beach. :p
nicholas urfe
05-04-08, 02:44 PM
Clare has to get on the helicopter with aaron, Desmond saw it , but what happens after that is anyone's guess .
Green Arrow
05-04-08, 05:28 PM
Clare has to get on the helicopter with aaron, Desmond saw it , but what happens after that is anyone's guess .
I don't think that will happen. Maybe someday in the way future. But I doubt it will happen just yet.
Good point! I wonder if there's any Dharma branded baby milk or food back at the beach. :p
It's possible that Sun could be producing milk already; seems to vary greatly in women, from weeks into the pregnancy until not after giving birth with others. I have no idea if she could produce enough to feed Aaron, but Juliet should be able to come up with a way to feed him. It's not rocket science.
[But if it was, Daniel would feed him ;) ]
Locke 'n' Load
05-04-08, 10:46 PM
but Juliet should be able to come up with a way to feed him. It's not rocket science.
[But if it was, Daniel would feed him ;) ]
:D :worshippy
rknorton91
05-04-08, 10:51 PM
Clare has to get on the helicopter with aaron, Desmond saw it , but what happens after that is anyone's guess .
Well Desmond "said" he saw it but we were never shown those flashes so we can only take him at his word but what you say could happen she might get on and then not survive the trip back out due to after effects?
Rachael Leigh
05-04-08, 11:18 PM
If this does happen to be timetravel, maybe Charlie spoke to Miles in the future and now Miles has been sent back to change the course of events. Desmond's vision of Claire getting on the helicoper might not have turned out to be a good one and once again Charlie could have saved her. lol! this show is making me loose my mind.
LOST lunatic
05-04-08, 11:22 PM
Thats a good idea Rachael! Also, TPTB might think we have forgotten about that and we might not see it play out!
I have no idea if she could produce enough to feed Aaron, but Juliet should be able to come up with a way to feed him. It's not rocket science.
[But if it was, Daniel would feed him ;) ]
Now that would be a scene worth watching. ;)
Hollysasquatch
05-05-08, 03:12 PM
I am bothered by how Aaron is going to be fed without Claire around.
Me too.
PS- I LOVE your profile picture. :D
LostinIreland
05-05-08, 03:41 PM
I am bothered by how Aaron is going to be fed without Claire around.
Mikail had a cow plus Aaron looks big enough for some Dharma oatmeal already. :Cheers:
The Evil Corporation of your choice ! That is why Locke and Malkin were so insistent that she must raise the child herself. Only her innate goodness could save the child from his evil prophesy.
okay...so what evil corporation is it then that has operatives on the island and has control of christian (or whatever it is that looks like christian) since he/it is the one who removed claire? (according to miles, that is.)
whatever was in jacob's cabin is wearing the christian disguise, so--
is jacob evil?
if not, why would he have aaron abandoned?
is jacob a prisoner of the christian entity?
then why would the christian entity be appearing to jack?
i'm so confused...
rknorton91
05-06-08, 08:29 AM
I still think with in the context of LOST good and bad guys terms are pretty relative. I think back in the real world many might find what happens to people on the island as some sickness or as something bad or something to fear. Others who have experienced the island or have a slightly different outlook think the island and what happens there as the ultimate paradise.
So I could easily see Aaron being viewed as both a saviour and as the bearer of destruction both at the same time depending on your particular point of view.
okay...so what evil corporation is it then that has operatives on the island and has control of christian (or whatever it is that looks like christian) since he/it is the one who removed claire? (according to miles, that is.)
Whoever is manipulating things (probably still Ben) wants Aaron off the island and Claire on the island, would be my guess. I think he wants to "dangle the bait" in front of Widmore. Get Aaron off island, make it clear that Aaron will become the key to taking/holding the island, then return Aaron to the island (thus Jack's "We have to go back!") I think Ben needs Widmore to show up in person, and he needs something to "play for" that's enough incentive. Clair would have no reason to ever go back if she was off-island with Aaron, so Ben kidnaps her so that Jack's guilt will make him bring Aaron back to the island.
So ... just more of Ben's manipulations in my opinion. There's a lot of speculation that Miles is working for Ben, so no surprise there that he "lets" Claire "wander off" into (Ben's clutches) the jungle.
Widmore has shown no love for the losties, so Ben's "winning" of the contest for the island will probably prove to be in their best interest. Ben sacrificed his own daughter (even plotted to do so, in my opinion) to alter "the rules" and defeat Widmore, so he wouldn't be above separating Claire and her baby for a few years.
LostinIreland
05-06-08, 09:30 AM
Ben sacrificed his own daughter (even plotted to do so, in my opinion) to alter "the rules" and defeat Widmore, so he wouldn't be above separating Claire and her baby for a few years.
I don't think so. Ben seemed genuinely shocked and saddened when Alex was killed. Ben never thought Widmore (or whoever is running things) would 'change the rules'. Alex's death has changed everything. Now it's personal and Ben is out for revenge.
I still think with in the context of LOST good and bad guys terms are pretty relative.it's true that in the real world, good and bad can be relative. and it's true also that the writers of lost have done a pretty good job of making the motives of man of the characters ambiguous; we don't yet know for sure who is good, and who is evil.
but the dichotomy of good and evil has been present from the very first episode of lost, represented by repeated references to black and white, or darkness and light. the key to discovering who is what lies not in the characters actions, but in their motivations, and it's why the back stories have been such an integral part of the series.
good and evil DO exist in the world of lost, i feel certain.
i just don't know for sure who's playing on which team.
it would be a big help if TPTB would just put them in jerseys.
TheWatcher
05-06-08, 02:39 PM
I'm aboard this ship. Claire died when the RPG blew up her cabin. The Island manifested (is that the right word?) her the same way as Yemi, Christian, and the Black Horse. Miles kept watching and looking at Claire because he knew something was wrong about her or that he knew she was dead but was confused about how she was able to move around and hold Aaron. When Christian appeard, he convinced Claire that she was dead and they left the baby for Sawyer to find.
BINGO! I'm on the ship as well...and that scene with Hurley saying "we're all dead" yeah he's supposed to be a nut case but what if the nut is the only one who can see it. That house Claire was in was flattened...no way she could surive....but I just dont get how it all ties in...I hope its not going Sixth Sense on us but the story line appears to be taking that direction...
Rachael Leigh
05-06-08, 04:00 PM
I wonder whether Charlie appeared in Claire's dream when/if she was knocked out when her house exploded. He might have told her that she would be getting a visit from her father, just like Hurley told Jack.
Why is Aaron left behind? Umm...maybe while Claire and Christian are walking through the jungle, her father explain's it's important you see Jacob but she refuses to take Aaron. Then Charlie appears and promises he would be safe and that he'd make sure Sawyer found him.
If this is the case, why would Jacob be so interesting in seeing Claire? Could be she needs to know why it's important she is the only one to raise Aaron.
DarthKitty
05-06-08, 04:30 PM
I wonder whether Charlie appeared in Claire's dream when/if she was knocked out when her house exploded. He might have told her that she would be getting a visit from her father, just like Hurley told Jack.
Why is Aaron left behind? Umm...maybe while Claire and Christian are walking through the jungle, her father explain's it's important you see Jacob but she refuses to take Aaron. Then Charlie appears and promises he would be safe and that he'd make sure Sawyer found him.
If this is the case, why would Jacob be so interesting in seeing Claire? Could be she needs to know why it's important she is the only one to raise Aaron.
She did say his name when she came to.
iluvjack
05-06-08, 11:21 PM
okay...so what evil corporation is it then that has operatives on the island and has control of christian (or whatever it is that looks like christian) since he/it is the one who removed claire? (according to miles, that is.)
whatever was in jacob's cabin is wearing the christian disguise, so--
is jacob evil?
if not, why would he have aaron abandoned?
is jacob a prisoner of the christian entity?
then why would the christian entity be appearing to jack?
i'm so confused...
I don't think Jacob is evil. I get a warm fuzzy feeling when I think about him. I'm calling it right now! I bet you he is a good guy
iluvjack
05-06-08, 11:27 PM
BINGO! I'm on the ship as well...and that scene with Hurley saying "we're all dead" yeah he's supposed to be a nut case but what if the nut is the only one who can see it. That house Claire was in was flattened...no way she could surive....but I just dont get how it all ties in...I hope its not going Sixth Sense on us but the story line appears to be taking that direction...
The thing I'm lost about is this. If Aaron is off the Island being raised by "Kate" then what was the whole big storyline that Aaron can't be raised by another?
If the Island is so special like they say it is... Why would Claire have to die? I don't think she died in that explodsion I really don't.
Since Day one we have learned that Aaron "HAS" to be raised by Claire. Why would that change?
rknorton91
05-07-08, 10:01 AM
Well actually Claire was warned over and over again that allowing another to raise the child would be dangerous.
Then beyond that she had the dream in which Locke told her that because she gave the child away that we were all going to pay now.
To me it seems fated to happen. That is giving up the child. Now the question is what will be the effect of it. Will it really be bad? and if so is it correctable?
carmela
05-07-08, 01:56 PM
Well actually Claire was warned over and over again that allowing another to raise the child would be dangerous.
Then beyond that she had the dream in which Locke told her that because she gave the child away that we were all going to pay now.
To me it seems fated to happen. That is giving up the child. Now the question is what will be the effect of it. Will it really be bad? and if so is it correctable?
I agree. Of course, none of the O6 are aware of this warning to Claire. Hurley - who is not crazy - understands what we already know: that Aaron must be raised by Claire. Jack, at least at that point in time, does not completely accept what Hurley has told him.
What changes to make Jack the loony that he is at the end of TTLG? Reunting Claire and Aaron has to be why they "have to go back" (or at least part of it). Why and who separated them in the first place?
iluvjack
05-07-08, 06:04 PM
What changes to make Jack the loony that he is at the end of TTLG? Reunting Claire and Aaron has to be why they "have to go back" (or at least part of it). Why and who separated them in the first place?
:yeah:
I really like this theory a lot. They may "have to go back" to reunite Claire and Aaron, I swear that is it!!
Maybe Claire didn't die, maybe they all "thought" she was dead so they took Aaron with them off the Island, and that's when the Chaos starts...
Maybe they do go back? Interesting very interesting.
I agree. Of course, none of the O6 are aware of this warning to Claire. Hurley - who is not crazy - understands what we already know: that Aaron must be raised by Claire. Jack, at least at that point in time, does not completely accept what Hurley has told him.
What changes to make Jack the loony that he is at the end of TTLG? Reunting Claire and Aaron has to be why they "have to go back" (or at least part of it). Why and who separated them in the first place?
Ultimately, I think it's Ben who separated them. Not physically, but he's the one calling the shots. All anyone has to know about Ben was summed up by that havid who talked to Juliet, "Ben is exactly where Ben wants to be" or whatever. Ben is ALWAYS exactly where he wants to be, even with Alex's death. He baited Keamy into killing Alex, thereby forcing a "rules change" on Widmore by proxy.
My thought on why Ben wants Aaron off-island is that he wants to use him as bait. Once he sets the hook into Widmore (which I think is in an attempt to make Widmore come to the island in person where the rules probably DO allow Ben to kill him) he'll manipulate the O6 into returning to the island so that Widmore will follow. Abaddon has already been sniffing around Hurley, and seems likely to sniff out a plot to return.
Reuniting Claire and Aaron is the only force in the world strong enough to get Jack back to that island. Therefore, Claire has to be "left behind" so that Jack will eventually bring Aaron back to her.
Ben never intended for the O6 to stay "rescued". Sun needed to leave to safely have her baby, Sayid's been working for Ben, Kate may be working with Ben and Sayid, but even if not she's Aaron's caregiver for a time. I suspect that Hurley and Walt will be needed to find the island again.
For the return: Jack wants to reunite Aaron and Claire, Kate won't let go of Aaron unless it's to Claire, Hurley's already convinced they need to go back, Sun will want to reunite her family, and Sayid will be glad to be rid of his wetwork and protect his friends in person as they return.
I think they're almost ready to return. We're just waiting for Widmore to make an attempt to kidnap Aaron, which means we're probably waiting for Aaron to exhibit special powers. We also need for Walt to be reintroduced to the O6, which I think will happen after things play out on the freighter (whether Michael dies or not). I suspect that the man in the coffin was Michael, and that Walt was hanging out nearby when Jack paid his respects. He'll seek out Jack and drop some bomb on him about the island.
That's how I see this playing out.
carmela
05-07-08, 07:12 PM
...waiting for Aaron to exhibit special powers. We also need for Walt to be reintroduced to the O6, which I think will happen after things play out on the freighter (whether Michael dies or not). I suspect that the man in the coffin was Michael, and that Walt was hanging out nearby when Jack paid his respects. He'll seek out Jack and drop some bomb on him about the island.
That's how I see this playing out.
I like how you have brought this back to Walt and Aaron and their possible powers. They need to get Walt into the storyline once again and linking him with Aaron is logical.
The fact that Walt may have observed Jack at his father's wake is interesting. I have always believed that "someone" knew that Jack would attend that wake once he saw the article/obit. That "someone" wanted Jack to know that this person had died and realize the implications of this death.
I have not bought into the "Michael is in the coffin" theory. But you just laid out an interesting scenario to support that fact.
sleep_deprived
05-08-08, 09:26 AM
ooooooo.....I agree about Aaron!
I'm rewatching Season 2, and Mr Eko was talking about the biblical figure of Aaron...that Moses had difficulty speaking, and so Aaron spoke for him.
I'm convinced that Ben is not keeping the island's best interest in mind..he just wants it/or Jacob all to himself. I think Aaron and his special connection to the island are key to losties (perhaps Jacob?) in finding peace...I don't know...just rambling here.
SAWYER: You all right, sweetheart?
CLAIRE: Yeah, a bit wobbly, but, uh, I'll live.
MILES: Well, I wouldn't be too sure about that.
SAWYER: You all right, sweetheart?
CLAIRE: Yeah, a bit wobbly, but, uh, I'll live.
MILES: Well, I wouldn't be too sure about that.
What you talking about Miles?? :hmm:
This is what Miles said after Claire's house was blasted.
This is what Miles said after Claire's house was blasted.
I know...my bad attempt at Gary Coleman :(
:Hugglepounce: It was a wonderful impression Dew . My daughter thinks Claire died in the blast because what Miles said and plus he was acting so suspicious around Claire and Aaron.
SAWYER: You all right, sweetheart?
CLAIRE: Yeah, a bit wobbly, but, uh, I'll live.
MILES: Well, I wouldn't be too sure about that.
A ghostbuster moment, or just a pessimistic Miles who knows that Keamy plans to kill everyone on the island? The writers are brilliant. By presenting Miles as a ghost whisperer type, they force us into a "Sixth Sense" viewing of the show.
I'm going to argue though that Claire is alive, at least when Miles says this and later when she wanders off. He hasn't "seen" ghosts before on the show, certainly not one who can carry a baby (who we know not to be dead). Someone could argue that he can see Claire because she's "freshly" dead, but that still doesn't explain her ability to carry Aaron.
I think Miles just meant that they were all going to end up dead before Keamy was finished with the island.
This was my daughters's idea, I hope Claire is alive. But Christian is supposed to be dead and he is holding the baby isn't he? This could be a reason why she left Aaron whom she adores.
Green Arrow
05-09-08, 04:41 PM
Not at the state of mind she was in there. It was as if she was someone else. She'd never leave Aaron behind willingly, if you need proof, watch maternity leave and Greatest hits.
Dirty Claire was definitely "out of it", as though she was high on drugs. I'd say she was suffering a concussion, except that she acted relatively normal during the jungle march. Maybe Miles gave her an injection while she slept, and gave Sawyer something to keep him knocked out. The reason I suspect this is because I was surprised that Sawyer didn't hear Claire say, "Dad?" or get up and leave the camp. A guy like him probably sleeps pretty lightly to begin with, and out there worried about protecting them all from Keamy, I'd expect the slightest unnatural sound to awaken him.
How Miles could drug Sawyer without getting himself killed in the process though ... that's a toughie ... maybe gas?
I think Claire is dead. And the fact that the people with Ben(Sawyer, Locke, Hurley and Miles) were the ones able to see her says something about them, too. Who else has seen Claire since the house she was in exploded? Not a coincidence.
Green Arrow
05-09-08, 07:24 PM
I think Claire is dead. And the fact that the people with Ben(Sawyer, Locke, Hurley and Miles) were the ones able to see her says something about them, too. Who else has seen Claire since the house she was in exploded? Not a coincidence.
You probably already know my views about the whole situation, but all she has is a bandage on her head, on that Island, I don't think it's a serious threath. Claire is alive, and a solid at that, she can carry Aaron, killing her off would be a lame cheat which would put me off the show. If you're going to kill her off, at least make her dead in the actual episode.
Plus, I'm pretty sure if you're dead you'd know it. This isn't the sixth sense after all.
drabauer
05-09-08, 07:36 PM
I now think Claire did receive a concussion, which has released her "sixth sense" powers. Miles was looking at her because he recognized a kindred spirit; maybe he never met another ghostbuster (its probably another lame plot point borrowed from Stephen King, ala Dead Zone). Now she is in thrall to her father, and believes whatever he's told her; and why not? She's all alone on an island and he shows up; she has no reason to suspect he's a ghost.
AH, there's still a lot of loose ends!
sleep_deprived
05-09-08, 07:48 PM
I don't believe Claire is dead.
But she is definitely not of the living world anymore.
In the bible, there are only a select few that God takes directly into heaven without them actually dying, such as Moses and Mary.
Maybe Claire went willingly (perhaps manipulated?)
but she did go and allowed herself to pass to and exist in a different realm.
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