Discussion of Marvin Candle Video from 2008 Comic Con (webmaze) [Archive]

awesome_cupcake

08-01-08, 01:29 AM

This thread is in regards to the Marvin Candlewick/Pierre Chang video played at Comic Con

You can see a it on the Abc website http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=index
or here http://www.lostargs.com/

its just videos of the test and a clean version of the ruckusguy/pierre changvideo but still cool so can see some of peoples answers

Lostargs has two static clips as well..pulled from the pierre chang video where you can clearly hear a third and fourth voice ..but it is difficult to make out what is being said or in what languages.

Theories on the Static Clips:
The second one sounds french...it sounds like its saying "seux mes oranges" or something...which means these are my oranges...but that makes no sense whatsoever.

Theories on Video Cameraman: Daniel Faraday, Horace Goodspeed

Theories on what Chang calls the person with the baby: "Dammit Laura", "Stanislar"

Dorkfish

08-01-08, 01:40 AM

The second static clip sounds French to me. But its very difficult to follow. Is this site official from abc or is it a fan site, awesome_cupcake?

awesome_cupcake

08-01-08, 01:47 AM

no its official..the videos are up on the abc lost site. The lost arg site is just faster to load and has the pulled static clips.

Selestina118

08-01-08, 02:06 AM

foxxie

08-01-08, 02:08 AM

I'm gonna add those video links to the second post for now, just fyi. :D

awesome_cupcake

08-01-08, 02:14 AM

Awesome!! Thanks, AC! :D I for one loved the test montage. ^.^ Also, I'm really glad to see that the Candle video is up. From the comments at LostARG they are saying that the name isn't Jennifer like we once though but Stanislar, Stanislav, or Stanislas. I thought I heard Laura, but this works, too. :D Apparently Stanislas is a Polish Saint and "Stanislav Petrov seems to have saved the world from a Nuclear strike / retaliation in an "Incident" in 1983."

:Cheers:

I heard Laura as well.

ETA: Ok i listened to it like a million times. He says "Dammit Laura/Lara" but because of the slight static blip it sounds like one word. Also the way he says his D's is odd...so i can see how people might think he is says "stanis" instead of "dammit". But its def dammit laura.

truffula

08-01-08, 03:06 AM

Just to chime in here, I hear "dammit, Laura (or Lara)". :)

awesome_cupcake

08-01-08, 03:10 AM

Is there a Laura or Lara mentioned in connection anywhere else previous? Or is this an entirely new name we have?

Lostpedia only has this to say...none of which are relevant
Laura may refer to:

Laura Boccanera (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Laura_Boccanera), Italian voice actor (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Laura#)
Laura Romano (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Laura_Romano), Italian voice actor
Laura Latini (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Laura_Latini), Italian voice actor
Laura Cosenza (http://www.lostpedia.com/index.php?title=Laura_Cosenza&action=edit), Italian voice actorso unless lostpedia has missed something..?

RoseArienh

08-01-08, 03:15 AM

Laura Palmer? :D

Iggy the Lizard

08-01-08, 03:31 AM

OMG, I've always wondered

awesome_cupcake

08-01-08, 03:33 AM

Is it just me or does Candlewick/Pierre have something in his hands during the video? The camera keeps looking down at his hands and at one point he looks like hes examining something.

Iggy the Lizard

08-01-08, 03:38 AM

maybe he was told he'll louss it

Pxlnight13

08-01-08, 03:58 AM

i think he has a script or a list of things to say

XxMayhemxX

08-01-08, 06:38 AM

it both.. hes supposed to be worried about his arm.. and hes goin off a script..

RadioDave

08-01-08, 11:37 AM

OK, he definitely says "Dammit Laura"... possibly the woman from the Orchid video that was holding the rabbit?

He also says something about "if I can keep this pinhole open long enough..." I searched for any connection between pinholes and time travel, but couldn't find anything that made sense. Can people smarter then me (large group I know) figure out what a pinhole is in relation to sending things through space-time?

snakey

08-01-08, 12:51 PM

hee, like a stargate? ducks and runs

snakey

08-01-08, 12:52 PM

Is it just me or does Candlewick/Pierre have something in his hands during the video? The camera keeps looking down at his hands and at one point he looks like hes examining something.

maybe to note he has 2 working hands or not?

sleep_deprived

08-01-08, 01:02 PM

I can't think of any theory, and a google search was not very helpful.
Because today is a solar eclipse, there are many articles about pinhole cameras. Got me thinkin--maybe Dr. Candle found a way to focus the magnetic energy of the island into an extremely small hole or point, through which he can broadcast images of light and sound (the video plea).
just rambling....

sleep_deprived

08-01-08, 01:11 PM

Re: his hands.
Can't really tell because the light is very bright on his hand.
It's definitely open to any possibility.
In the beginning and when he is talking to Lara, there is nothing in his hand.
But we lose sight for a bit, and during that time he could have easily taken something
from his pocket or the table or anywhere within close reach.

Dorkfish

08-01-08, 01:23 PM

I don't know, seems more like a glare to me. From where? I have no clue, but I think that the only thing we were supposed to get from that was that he was told that his left arm would be gone.

sleep_deprived

08-01-08, 02:37 PM

I don't know, seems more like a glare to me. From where? I have no clue, but I think that the only thing we were supposed to get from that was that he was told that his left arm would be gone.

Yeah, I agree.
My first viewing was on that shaky, smaller video. So I thought he was holding something. But the video at Dark UFO is larger and better quality. Taken with his body language, it looks more like he is contemplating the loss of his arm.

Winston Smith

08-01-08, 05:14 PM

After watching again, he definately says "Dammit Laura". The question I have is why TPTB put the baby crying in there in the first place. Obviuosly it will have some signifagance somewhere.

Also, I just realized that he is taping this before the "purge" happens. He doesn't know what the purge is, only that it happens and they all die. I think this lends more credibilty to the man behind the camera being Faraday (and it does sound like him!). But whoever Chang's "source" is, it must be someone who was a) familair with what happened to Dharma and b) someone who has seen or been to the beginning of the 21st century.

Guinevere

08-01-08, 08:26 PM

Yeah I agree he does say Lara or Laura instead of Jennifer. Also I listened again through earphone this time and when I first listened I was certain it was Faraday but listening again through earphone the accent is off, it's more loud, broad and quick whereas Faraday as quite a soft and slow sounding accent.
Plus don't you think someone as technically minded as Faraday would know how to turn a video camera off? I mean yeah I know it's the 80's but the overall format and functionality hasn't changed much, just the size.
Plus what's his age?.. Jeremy Davies is 38 so maybe early 30's for Faraday? So say he's 35 that means he was born in 1973 so by the early 80's, say the video is based in 1984, he's going to be 11 don't you think someone who's 11 would know how a video camera works? As most famillies were likely to have one being as in 1982 there was a huge home camcorder boom. And even if he doesn't have one something makes me think that he would have been aware of them considering the boom and his technical mind.
The person on the video sounds younger maybe a Middle 80's or early 90's birth? When he says 'This is useless, they're never going to see it. Help me turn this off. How do you turn this off?'

I dunno maybe i'm over analysing, but that's my 2 cents worth.

XxMayhemxX

08-01-08, 08:41 PM

<snip>
Plus what's his age?.. Jeremy Davies is 38 so maybe early 30's for Faraday? So say he's 35 that means he was born in 1973 so by the early 80's, say the video is based in 1984, he's going to be 11 don't you think someone who's 11 would know how a video camera works? <snip>
I dunno maybe i'm over analysing, but that's my 2 cents worth.

i didnt think Faraday was 11 or 12 in that scene.. i assume he warped back to the past.. thats how he knows about the purge and Cheng/Candles arm. Someone with future knowledge.. is desperatly getting this video thru the pinhole as fast as possible before its gone

scotpgot

08-01-08, 08:46 PM

I have in my head that Faraday (or whoever) "warped" back in time on the island. Recorded the video with Candleman, then "left it" somewhere (via time capsule) to be found later.

Guinevere

08-01-08, 08:48 PM

i didnt think Faraday was 11 or 12 in that scene.. i assume he warped back to the past.. thats how he knows about the purge and Cheng/Candles arm. Someone with future knowledge.. is desperatly getting this video thru the pinhole as fast as possible before its gone

No me neither, I figured that whoever the person in the video is they are in that video as they are in the present time. So like they have jumped back from here to there? So therefore when ever the video is filmed, and depending that whoever the other person is is actually born, there will be two of them in the time zone that the video is filmed and in the present that person has vanished, if you understand me?

I said about Faraday being 11 because if he could work the camcorder when they came out in the 80's then he would still know how to work it in the present. Therefore if he or whoever went back they would know how to work it. The idea that whoever filmed the video didn't know how to work the camcorder I find odd.

Richardstone

08-01-08, 08:58 PM

I posted a theory about Daniel & The DI in TLE Theories.

I think the fact Fracois Chau and possibly Jeremy Davies are in this make it quite likely it'll be seen in the show during S5, maybe in the same way as The Orchid video they showed last year, we'll see this scene from a different POV.

If Daniel has gone back to the late 70's then we could follow his life through the heydey of The DHARMA Initiative all the way through to when Danielle's team arrives in the 80's.

None of the rules of TT that LOST has established so far would be broken by having Daniel end up there, in-fact there would never be a past where Daniel wasn't there.

leleana

08-01-08, 09:07 PM

Just wanted to pop in and say that I'm totally the Laura Candle/Chang is talking to in the video :D

J/k, obviously. but my name really is Laura!

foxxie

08-01-08, 10:33 PM

Hey guys! I'm going to start a dedicated thread for the discussions and theories that are going around about the Marvin Candle and Test Videos from the new webmaze game. I'm trying to keep the dharmawantsyou.com thread from getting too long too quickly, so if ya'll wouldn't mind putting your discussions and theories about all that's going on over here, I would really appreciate it.

I'll keep this first post updated with links and such as they come available.

Thanks! :D

High Quality Test Video and Marvin Candle video (http://www.lostargs.com/2008/07/high-quality-dharma-test-and-ruckusguy.html) source: www.lostargs.com (http://www.lostargs.com/)

Winston Smith

08-01-08, 10:36 PM

Good idea foxxie! I was wondering myself if we should do it. Maybe we should get a link to the video up in the first post.

foxxie

08-01-08, 10:38 PM

Thanks! :D

Yeah, I'm working on that now, and Lab is going to move the posts from the other thread over to this one. As we all know, Lab rocks our socks. :D

Richardstone

08-01-08, 10:58 PM

I think that the "source that has proven himself to be credible" that Chang mentions in the video sounds like Daniel Faraday.

I think he will experience an extreme form of the phenomenom that Doctor Ray's corspe and Sayid, Desmond & Lapidus experienced on the way back to the Kahana.

I think that in S5 Daniel Faraday is going to end up in the past, in the heyday of The DHARMA Initiative.

During the LOST Q&A at Comic Con this question was asked...

Q. How did Daniel know about the Secondary Protocol.

DAMON: Daniel knew about the Secondary Protocol because he has this little notebook with him, and written in that notebook are all sorts of things that have already happened or are about to happen, and it will figure very prominently into season five.

In 2004 the notebook would contain information about things that have already happened.

In 1976* the notebook would contain information about things that are about to happen.

When Daniel tellls Pierre Chang about The Purge (and the loss of his arm) Chang must have been suitably shocked to have found a way, with fellow Theoretical Astrophysicist Daniel Faraday, to send a message through a pinhole in time to members of The DHARMA Initiative that still survive and urge them to reconstitute the project.

That's why The DHARMA Intitiative has gone on a recruitment drive.

*I say 1976 only because The DHARMA Initiative only arrived on The Island in 1975.

That's the earliest it could be, the latest would be 1978, that's 2008 -30 years.

We could see him live through the early days of The DI in the late 70's through the 80's when Gerald DeGroot and Hanso fell out and Danielle's team arrived and finally to 1992 and The Purge.

Daniel could be responsible for getting a Charlotte off The Island, that way her line about looking for where she was born will all make sense to him and he'll be the reason that she survives, why any of The DI survive for that matter.

awesome_cupcake

08-01-08, 11:26 PM

I think that the "source that has proven himself to be credible" that Chang mentions in the video sounds like Daniel Faraday....

I found it interesting that the person filming chooses to interrupt as soon as Chang begins to mention him...as if he doesnt want to be talked about.

maybe to note he has 2 working hands or not?

I forgot about his hand not working..good call

Re: his hands.
Can't really tell because the light is very bright on his hand.
It's definitely open to any possibility.
In the beginning and when he is talking to Lara, there is nothing in his hand.
But we lose sight for a bit, and during that time he could have easily taken something
from his pocket or the table or anywhere within close reach.

Looking at that first shot I am pretty sure I can see a piece of paper in his hand..the corner is where his thumb should be. Im gonna play with the image and see if I can do anything to make it clearer.

Also I listened again through earphone this time and when I first listened I was certain it was Faraday but listening again through earphone the accent is off, it's more loud, broad and quick whereas Faraday as quite a soft and slow sounding accent.

I was thinking the same thing...but then i wondered...perhaps its supposed to be Faraday but the didn't get Jeremy Davies to play him in that clip. Perhaps he was busy or something so they got someone who could impersonate his voice? I dunno its a wil long shot but who knows?

Eta: Fixed the pic up by inverting the colours..there is clearly a piece of paper in his hand. Check it out
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL2001/10875804/20198333/328317752.jpg

Richardstone

08-01-08, 11:35 PM

I found it interesting that the person filming chooses to interrupt as soon as Chang begins to mention him...as if he doesnt want to be talked about.

I guess if they couldn't be certain that the message would be recieved when they intended it to be it could be dangerous to mention Daniel by name.

if the message was recieved early, say in 2003, then someone might go and find Daniel and that could alter the course of events that lead him to The Island and, if the theory is right, to the past.

For the same reason he can't stop any of the things that he knows will happen, like The Purge, to change anything in Chang's future would alter Daniel's past.

Lab

08-01-08, 11:37 PM

I have merged and moved the Candle video posts.

awesome, if you don't want to be the thread author or make updates, just let me know, foxxie is willing.

We would just ask that you update the first post if there is another vid or relevant info.

Thanks!

time is a river

08-02-08, 03:09 AM

Wow, this is great that someone started a thread about this. This is what I wrote in thread about the video in spoilers:

Wow, I just saw this video. This is really cool. So now the time travel angle has been confirmed. No one can doubt it now. The only challenge is to figure out how this time travel works. As someone above mentions, it seems that Daniel has somehow traveled back in time 30 years. This must be the Daniel of the future because the Daniel we saw was 40 years old at the most, and he sure as hell is not 10 in this Cheng/Candle video. So Daniel travels to the past. So does Daniel tell them about Bush being president and the internet? Or can they somehow see the future (i.e. our present). What is this pinhole and how does it work?

But, wait, here is a monkey wrench to throw in the works. George Bush has been president for 8 wonderful years. So when did Daniel travel back to meet Cheng? Was it 2004? 2005, right after the island itself went traveling somewhere? Or is it 2008, or 2007, the time period that Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sun are back in civilization?

This video raises many, many questions. Here, the opening shot across the bow, is the Wikipedia entry on the Einstein field equations, which, strangely enough, I was talking to someone about the other day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_field_equations

snakey

08-02-08, 04:25 PM

Lab, that avi is freaking me out, ewwwww, an ad against plastic surgery.
One thing about the Candle vids, they stay true to form in having missing sections (like his arms).

awesome_cupcake

08-03-08, 05:11 AM

First post has been updated to include most up to date info

TerminalFrost

08-03-08, 10:31 PM

Lostpedia has posted an interview with Francois Chau, the actor who portrays Candle/Chang...

Nothing really earth shattering in there, but a few small insights into the ComicCon video...

Here is a linkie. (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Lostpedia_Interview:Fran%C3%A7ois_Chau)

awesome_cupcake

08-03-08, 11:12 PM

Cool interview! It would be so neat to have Candle be in a few actual episodes. He is such an interesting character.

TerminalFrost

08-03-08, 11:56 PM

It would be an interesting sideline... And the way they are currently tinkering with timelines, certainly not undoable.. :rotfl:

Richardstone

08-04-08, 01:08 AM

It would be an interesting sideline... And the way they are currently tinkering with timelines, certainly not undoable.. :rotfl:

I'm certain that we'll see Chang in S5, in-fact I think we'll see lots of DHARMA, including them sending food drops through time...

Damon Lindelof: DHARMA drops...

Carlton Cuse: DHARMA drops -

Damon Lindelof: Will we ever learn?

Carlton Cuse: [sigh] You know, that's good. I mean, that- that's- that recalls a lot of history with the show but, I think that next year we will be dealing uh, a little bit more significantly with some DHARMA things and I think DHARMA drops might be one of those questions that season five will provide you with the answer for. Not gonna happen between now and the finale, but when you- when the show is back next season, I'm thinkin DHARMA drops will be your - if that's really what you need to know about the show, I feel like you will feel satisfied.

Damon Lindelof: If a DHARMA drop happens on the wrong bearing, does that mean that something can get dropped off in like 1965 and arrive in 2005?

Carlton Cuse: I think that's an episode.

Damon Lindelof: Whoa... [Carlton chuckling] alright I'm gonna write that one down.

:Hippy:

Iggy the Lizard

08-04-08, 06:51 AM

is good to be a :hippy:

Guinevere

08-04-08, 09:23 PM

I was thinking the same thing...but then i wondered...perhaps its supposed to be Faraday but the didn't get Jeremy Davies to play him in that clip. Perhaps he was busy or something so they got someone who could impersonate his voice? I dunno its a wil long shot but who knows?

That is definitely plausible. This Faraday business is giving me an headache, lol. I mean the accent is definitely off, but then your idea could solve that; but then the idea that Faraday doesn't know how to work a video camera again makes me think naaah it's not him in the video. However, when reading the intervew this:

In the recent video shown at Comic-Con 2008, your character interacts with a familiar sounding cameraman. Do you know who portrayed this voice? Is it someone audiences have seen before?

All I can tell you is "yes" I know who did the voice, and "yes" it definitely is someone the audience has seen before.

Makes me think FARADAY! Aaaaaargh!

Richardstone

08-04-08, 10:01 PM

That is definitely plausible. This Faraday business is giving me an headache, lol. I mean the accent is definitely off, but then your idea could solve that; but then the idea that Faraday doesn't know how to work a video camera again makes me think naaah it's not him in the video.

I don't think it's the video camera that he's having trouble shutting down or operating, I think it's whatever Chang has created that allows him to send a message through a pinhole in time...

However, when reading the intervew this:

In the recent video shown at Comic-Con 2008, your character interacts with a familiar sounding cameraman. Do you know who portrayed this voice? Is it someone audiences have seen before?

All I can tell you is "yes" I know who did the voice, and "yes" it definitely is someone the audience has seen before.

Makes me think FARADAY! Aaaaaargh!

Me too.

awesome_cupcake

08-04-08, 11:13 PM

Lets pose this question another way. If it is someone we have seen before who could it be other than Faraday? Any possibilities?

Richardstone

08-04-08, 11:42 PM

Lets pose this question another way. If it is someone we have seen before who could it be other than Faraday? Any possibilities?

I've heard Horace Goodspeed's name mentioned?

Selestina118

08-04-08, 11:43 PM

While I definitely believe that it was Dan that was there - how about Miles being there as well? The "It's useless" kind of line I could definitely hear coming from him.

:Cheers:

drabauer

08-04-08, 11:56 PM

awesome_cupcake

08-05-08, 12:05 AM

I've heard Horace Goodspeed's name mentioned?

Horace is a possiblity. Here is a video from youtube with him in it. He does quite a lot of talking. I think it may be a possible match.
b3sfwhVTw9g

While I definitely believe that it was Dan that was there - how about Miles being there as well? The "It's useless" kind of line I could definitely hear coming from him.

:Cheers:

I can see your point with the dialogue being something Miles would say but I feel the actual voice is just too different.

Richardstone

08-05-08, 12:19 AM

Hi guys. I have a more philosophical question. What do you think Chang meant by "time is the essence."??

Time is the essence of reality?

I have no idea.

awesome_cupcake

08-05-08, 12:34 AM

Hi guys. I have a more philosophical question. What do you think Chang meant by "time is the essence."??

It sounds hokey on the surface, but maybe he means what he says.

I'm writing a paper on time travel in Lost, and I will credit anyone who gives me a probable meaning for this phrase!

Yung is probably the best bet to help you out with that one lol

im assuming it means something along the lines of the key to solving everything without crisis has to do with time travel or changing the past or something

Selestina118

08-05-08, 12:35 AM

Well, time is relative, so based on one's perceptions, you will have reality. So basically "time is the essence" is like time is what we base everything on in our perspective and universe to create our perspective and universe.

Hope that makes sense. :)

:Cheers:

AquariusYP

08-05-08, 01:45 AM

Hi everyone! I'm a long-time lurker, first-time poster. I wanted to jump off of something that Richardstone said a couple of pages back:

I say 1976 only because The DHARMA Initiative only arrived on The Island in 1975.

That's the earliest it could be, the latest would be 1978, that's 2008 -30 years.
...
Daniel could be responsible for getting a Charlotte off The Island, that way her line about looking for where she was born will all make sense to him and he'll be the reason that she survives, why any of The DI survive for that matter.

The year 1978 in Richard's post caught my eye because the registration for dharmawantsyou.com had the default date of birth at the year 1978 (date: July 17, 1978 to be exact). I know there are always default settings for registration, but this date seemed pretty random. I did some research and couldn't find anything very significant for that date (I know this part relates more to the ARG topic), so I'm leaning towards the idea that the purge was in 1978, and/or that there may be more to this date than meets the eye.

To relate this to the video, I'm going to make the out-there suggestion that the baby in the video may have been a young Charlotte (I know other people have suggested this before; I'm not at all implying that this is an original idea). The show has clearly suggested that Charlotte may have been born on the Island. Is it possible-maybe- that the date of birth given on the dharma registration was Charlotte's, as an easter egg? The default gender was set at "female", despite the fact that the first gender to be listed was male. Charlotte's date of birth, provided by Ben, was July 1979 (not the 17th, however). What if she was born on the Island, was removed before the purge and then placed with the family to which Ben referred, who then fudged her birthdate to be almost a year later?
...or, it could be Penny's birthday. Or Juliet's (maybe not). Or Annie's ;)

So ends my first official grasping-at-straws Lost theory :rolleyes:

Seriously, I love reading what everyone on this board has to say, and I'm so excited to finally be able to participate in this summer's hiatus activities! :Cheers:

awesome_cupcake

08-05-08, 01:58 AM

Welcome AquariusYP! We are happy to have you on the team!

You present a very good possibility. There has been a lot of speculation that the default date in the registration actually refers to the day the Pierre Chang video was made so you are def on the right track with your thoughts.

You idea that the baby might be charlotte is indeed an interesting one, especially since there are hints in the show that Charlotte was born on the island.

Again welcome and I look forward to your future posts :)

AquariusYP

08-05-08, 02:08 AM

awesome_cupcake

08-05-08, 02:16 AM

Thanks Awesome Cupcake!

It just hit me (and maybe I've missed something) but if the video was made in the late 1970s, and Ben's purge occurred in 1992, then who was behind Candle/Chang's purge? (...Widmore?...) Or could it be some sort of misdirection- that the video was actually made in 1992, but due to the time properties of the "pinhole" it would seem like it was coming from the late 1970s? Personally I lean toward multiple purges, what about you guys?

This show makes me so confused and I love it :)

When the video is made I believe that the purge is still many many years in the future. All Chang says is that by the time we watch this video "...my colleagues and I are all dead [static] a kind of... [static], of violent purge." He doesn't say it is about to happen or that it is imminent...so really it is entirely possible for him to be referring to the purge in 1992.

drabauer

08-05-08, 04:07 AM

Thanks for guesses on what "time is the essence" means. I'm leaning toward it as a clue that, as awesome cupcake noted, that it means time is the key "to solving everything without crisis."

jeffeff

08-05-08, 03:48 PM

To relate this to the video, I'm going to make the out-there suggestion that the baby in the video may have been a young Charlotte (I know other people have suggested this before; I'm not at all implying that this is an original idea). The show has clearly suggested that Charlotte may have been born on the Island. Is it possible-maybe- that the date of birth given on the dharma registration was Charlotte's, as an easter egg? The default gender was set at "female", despite the fact that the first gender to be listed was male. Charlotte's date of birth, provided by Ben, was July 1979 (not the 17th, however). What if she was born on the Island, was removed before the purge and then placed with the family to which Ben referred, who then fudged her birthdate to be almost a year later?

This is a great idea, and I think it's entirely plausible that Charlotte left the island either directly before or because of The Purge. Unfortunately, in the video, to me Chang clearly says, "Just take him outside!" in response to the crying baby in the background. Now, let's talk about who this 30-year-old male that we may have met could be!

Also, it seems to me like it's definitely Jeremy Davies' voice in the background.

Jeff Eff

Richardstone

08-05-08, 04:12 PM

This is a great idea, and I think it's entirely plausible that Charlotte left the island either directly before or because of The Purge.!

I think the date of birth Ben gave for Charlotte is pretty accurate so at the time of The Purge in 1992 she would have been around 12 or 13, old enough to possibly remember Daniel.

While the question the she asked Daniel about "looking for where she was born" didn't make any sense to him at the time I think that during S5 it's going to.

If this is right then being a physical TT, and thus always a part of history, Daniel will always have been the one responsible for Charlotte's survival.

And when he's in the past his consciousness could also flash forward to the time when he, Charlotte & Miles underwent some training before being sent to The Island, a time to which Charlotte can FB to from the present.

Charlotte could be Daniel's constant, the thing he really, realy cares about that exists in both places.

Unfortunately, in the video, to me Chang clearly says, "Just take him outside!" in response to the crying baby in the background. Now, let's talk about who this 30-year-old male that we may have met could be.

He definitely says him, so could it be a baby Miles?

It could equally just be a baby Chang and a fairly large group of women and children were taken off The Island as a result of Faraday's warning?

Also, it seems to me like it's definitely Jeremy Davies' voice in the background.

Jeff Eff

I hope so, I think that we might get a clearer, better quality version of the video as a part of the ARG, there was a hidden message at the end of the video on the abc site but it seems like it's too low a resolution to read.

truffula

08-05-08, 04:25 PM

Charlotte could be Daniel's constant, the thing he really, realy cares about that exists in both places.
Only that in Daniel's notebook it said "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be my constant". And now that Des is off Island with Penny, Daniel's could be in a little bit of trouble....

I was also thinking about the original "Incident" that Candle mentions in the Swan video. Was it concluded that this incident was their first contact with "the hostiles" (Richard and Co.)? If so, why was the original protocol of the Swan changed afterwards? What was it originally?

It just feels like there's something else going on here, and I can't quite put my finger on it. Like we're missing a very important detail.....

silver

08-05-08, 04:46 PM

Only that in Daniel's notebook it said "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be my constant". And now that Des is off Island with Penny, Daniel's could be in a little bit of trouble....

that's if Daniel is on the island; he may be bouncing around in time off the island. as he says, the effects are unpredictable.

I was also thinking about the original "Incident" that Candle mentions in the Swan video. Was it concluded that this incident was their first contact with "the hostiles" (Richard and Co.)? If so, why was the original protocol of the Swan changed afterwards? What was it originally?

It just feels like there's something else going on here, and I can't quite put my finger on it. Like we're missing a very important detail.....

since i'm commenting i'll throw in that i agree. the proverbial "other shoe" is about to drop re: dharma/hostiles. S2 rewatch will be important.

Richardstone

08-05-08, 05:15 PM

Only that in Daniel's notebook it said "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be my constant". And now that Des is off Island with Penny, Daniel's could be in a little bit of trouble....

I think maybe Daniel wrote that in his journal soon after Desmond visited him in 1996 and told him that he'd end up on an Island, at that point Daniel could have believed Desmond would exist in both places and could have functioned as his constant.

Neither of them knew that Dan would end up on The Island in the past and as you pointed out, Des wouldn't be there and Daniel would be in trouble.

Charlotte does exist in both places and if Dan's consciousness is TT between the past and the future then it's possible that he'd need to be policed by someone like Ms. Hawking, just to make sure he doesn't make any changes during the flash like Desmond was able to.

I was also thinking about the original "Incident" that Candle mentions in the Swan video. Was it concluded that this incident was their first contact with "the hostiles" (Richard and Co.)? If so, why was the original protocol of the Swan changed afterwards? What was it originally?

I'm not sure what caused The Incident (http://www.lostpedia.com/images/f/fd/Behind_the_Secret_Swan.jpg), we know it was a containment leak and that it occured before 1980, it could definitely be related to the war with The Hostiles

It just feels like there's something else going on here, and I can't quite put my finger on it. Like we're missing a very important detail.....

We're missing two whole seasons of important details, Truff!!

I do think that enough of the puzzle pieces are available to be able to get an impression of what the final picture will be, but the jigsaw is still like Dan's memory, swiss cheese, full of holes.

AquariusYP

08-05-08, 06:54 PM

Unfortunately, in the video, to me Chang clearly says, "Just take him outside!" in response to the crying baby in the background. Now, let's talk about who this 30-year-old male that we may have met could be!

Oops! Good call Jeff :)

I like Richard's suggestion that it could be a baby Miles- he certainly has the "mysterious" factor, not to mention those ghost-whisperer abilities.
Or maybe, in the end, the baby's not even someone specific (or at least, not anyone we've met yet), but just in the video to show that in the past there were babies on the Island, young enough to have been born there (making Ben a liar... but that's nothing new).

Richardstone

08-05-08, 07:24 PM

Or maybe, in the end, the baby's not even someone specific (or at least, not anyone we've met yet), but just in the video to show that in the past there were babies on the Island, young enough to have been born there (making Ben a liar... but that's nothing new).

And maybe even maiking the fertility issue a punishment of sorts for somegthing Ben did, or helped do?

awesome_cupcake

08-05-08, 08:02 PM

can someone change their constant I wonder...

Richardstone

08-05-08, 08:08 PM

can someone change their constant I wonder...

How would someone know that they had picked the right one until they needed it?

I'm not sure, someone's constant seems pretty important, it's arguable that when Ms. Hawking laid down the rules and finally got him to chuck the ring in the Thames* she was guarding Penny's future just as much as she was policing Desmond's.

That one event was just as pivotal in leading to Penny's saving Desmond's life.

It did lead to the rescue of the O6 though, not something that I think Widmore or The Island wanted, for very different resons of course...

ETA: And minutes after I typed that I realised it could have been necessary for Jack to leave so that Locke's death could eventually convince him who was right in the old science vs faith argument and he would willingly come back to The Island?

*I'm not totally sure of this but I don't think the universe is able to effect the changes that the very few people (so far just one, but Dan could make it two) whom are able to send their consciousness back in time.

IMO that's why and where she gets her name, from Stephen Hawking's Chronology Protection Conjecture...

It seems that there is a Chronology Protection Agency which prevents the appearance of closed timelike curves and so makes the universe safe for historians.

snakey

08-07-08, 03:52 PM

If it is a male baby it could be any of them, from Miles to Jack.
. It would make sense that Christian's tie in to the island is a long standing one.

awesome_cupcake

08-07-08, 08:45 PM

There is one other option we haven't considered up until this point. It a HUGE long shot cause technically there in no proof since there was only one baby crying.

Anyways we hear Candle say "Take'em outside". This could refer to a male child (take him) OR it could refer to two or more children (take them). Like I said really there is no proof...but it would solve the Charlotte - him discrepancy.

soup

08-11-08, 11:54 PM

I don't think there is any doubt that the voice behind the camera is Farraday. I like the speculation that the baby is a young Miles, too. The thing that caught my attention the most was the theory of the "pinhole" video. This plays off of one of my favorite all-time movies, John Carpenter's "Prince of Darkness."

Scientists from the future send back video in the form of tachyons to warn those in the past about the danger that awaits in the form of "___fill in blank for name of satan_." The folks holed up in the old church only sense this message in their sleep, like it was a dream. Each scene teases you with more of the scene, where you see a cloaked figure, demonic in nature, standing in the doorway of the cathedral.

I always thought that was one of the coolest premises presented in a movie. I wonder how this video was "sent" thorugh time, or if the tape was merely left in a type of time capsule.

NeillT006

08-13-08, 03:25 AM

I wonder how this video was "sent" thorugh time, or if the tape was merely left in a type of time capsule.

And, as a practical matter, how would it make any difference?

Now, if the communication was going in the other direction, that would be something to write home about. I wonder if that can be accomplished using some variation of the entanglement idea: some action on the system in the future manifesting on the entangled pair in the past?

N.

SanityAmongstChaos

08-13-08, 08:56 PM

And, as a practical matter, how would it make any difference?
I think it's important to know whether this message was received in the form of a tape or an electronic transmission. I got the impression that it was the latter. (I'm going primarily on the fact that I see a pinhole as something small enough to send electronic signals but not large enough to send a physical tape, and also on the static that reminds me of interference in a transmission.) And if that is the case, it implies that someone in the future was positioned in the correct time and place to receive the message.

That, however, begs the question: If they had some method of conveying where and when to receive the message to someone in the future, why not use that same method to transmit the message itself?

soup

08-13-08, 10:45 PM

That, however, begs the question: If they had some method of conveying where and when to receive the message to someone in the future, why not use that same method to transmit the message itself?

Who says someone hasn't? Could this explain the sudden appearances of Walt. They aren't his physical body, but a "pinhole"-like projection. Perhaps this was part of his gift. I believe that if this message was sent electronically, we will be getting other crypitc messages as the series procedes.

truffula

08-14-08, 12:02 AM

Who says someone hasn't? Could this explain the sudden appearances of Walt. They aren't his physical body, but a "pinhole"-like projection. Perhaps this was part of his gift. I believe that if this message was sent electronically, we will be getting other crypitc messages as the series procedes.
We've already had one instance of a "time distorted relay" when Sayid and Hurley heard "Moonlight Serenade" from way back when (I forget if we ever nailed down an exact year for that broadcast though). Perhaps the same way they received the song on the radio is how Chang and Faraday get their message back to us now.
I dunno.....all this time travel talk makes my head hurt. :p

NeillT006

08-14-08, 12:38 AM

If there is some element of past -> future broadcast going on here, and if your relationship with those in the past was not particularly good, you might want to build some sort of jamming device to prevent the broadcasts from getting much beyond their source.

N.

awesome_cupcake

08-14-08, 03:23 AM

We've already had one instance of a "time distorted relay" when Sayid and Hurley heard "Moonlight Serenade" from way back when (I forget if we ever nailed down an exact year for that broadcast though). Perhaps the same way they received the song on the radio is how Chang and Faraday get their message back to us now.
I dunno.....all this time travel talk makes my head hurt. :p

Thats a good point! It would also fit in with the whole Amelia Earhart broadcasts from find815

manutius

08-14-08, 05:19 AM

soup

08-14-08, 11:21 PM

Richardstone

08-14-08, 11:51 PM

Thats a good point! It would also fit in with the whole Amelia Earhart broadcasts from find815

She landed on The Island, didn't she (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Herarat_Aviation)?

:D

Winston Smith

08-16-08, 09:40 PM

There was a recent short interview with Francois Chau, the guy who plays Candle. A few questions were relevant to the video. Not musch there, but thought it would be interesting for those here.

You can read the whole thing here (http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2008/08/francois-chau-interview-more-of-dr.html).

In the beginning of the video there is a baby crying off screen. Do you happen to know who this child is? Could it be your character’s son? Is it someone we already know? Some fans have been speculating that it could be Miles.

FC: Yes, I know who the “crying baby” is, but you will have to keep on speculating for a while longer because I can’t say just yet. Sorry.

In the video, your character still has both of his arms, but it seems that he knows that he will lose one of them soon. Do you know how it happened? It could not have been in the purge, because he said he died in the purge, and we’ve seen him alive with a fake left arm.

FC: I was only following the directions in the script about the arm. I don’t know anymore.

Can you tell us who this source is? Is it the voice behind the camera?

FC: The “credible” source of Pierre Chang’s info is from the voice behind the camera, but I can’t tell you who it is.

The only thing intereseting is the last answer. So whoever is behind teh camera is the "credible" source it would seem. Hmmmm....still sounds like Dan to me :)

LightSide/DarkSide

08-17-08, 09:43 AM

And, as a practical matter, how would it make any difference?

The most immediate difference I can see is that if the message was left in a time capsule on the island then the recipient would have to know where it is and be on the island to receive it. If transmitted then the message could be received some distance away at a location off the island. But the sender would probably have to know where to send it so that the receiver will pick it up.

What all of this reminds me of is one of my favorite John Carpenter movies. Prince of Darkness. This message is very similar to something the characters experience in the movie.

In the movie the message was sent from the future to the past by way of tachyons (sp). It concerned one of the characters in the movie and was received by one (or more, I can't remember) of the other characters while they were dreaming. The signal became stronger the closer the recipient got to the source (the time) from which the signal was sent. So at first the recipient only got bits and pieces of the message. He didn't receive the full message until the very end of the movie.

All of this is now making me wonder if the radio tower may have been used to secretly transmit something other than the numbers. I'm not thinking it was this video message but maybe something was hidden underneath that radio transmission. Something that someone did detect and lead to Danielle's team being dispatched to the island all those years ago. With all of the Dharma facilties none are what they seem to be at first glance. So this idea seems to fit but of course it could be something else entirely. It just seems curious to me that there would be any purpose in repeating a transmission of the numbers over and over.

soup

08-17-08, 05:52 PM

LightSide/DarkSide

08-24-08, 03:41 PM

Sorry, I totally missed your post.

sayidsalot

08-24-08, 10:13 PM

Hey Y'all,

I thought I would chime in on some things. I think that the baby is Miles for several reasons.

1) If it really IS Candle/Chang's son, well they ARE both Asian
2) Miles would have a REAL reason to think of the Island as a hostile place since his father would have schooled him in this fact.
3) Miles has a special talent or gift which is seeming like a typical MO of the Island... maybe there WERE other babies born on the Island which were not CONCEIVED there, but BORN there & given special talents. (this would explain alot as far as I am concerned!)
4) Miles seems to know alot more than he is showing to the people on the Island & Off as if he may have a hidden agenda.

The other thing I wanted to address is the whole deal with giving the program the name Dharma Initiative.

The meaning of the word Dharma & also the fact that the show itself seems like a big statement on Karma...

I have been studying Karma & Dharma intensely for the last 6 months as part of my Past Life Hypnosis training with Dick Sutphen. (God, he would LOVE this show! - he's too busy to watch it though!)

I will continue to work on my theories of how Dharma & Karma are a part of all that happens on the show.

Carmen

jojojjjj

02-14-09, 02:13 AM

I too, think that there's kinda no doubt it's Faraday as the credible source..and I could hear Faraday one moment, but next moment it doesn't sound like Faraday..but Im pretty convinced it's him anyway.
One of the other voices tho... when Chang mentions something..some voice in the back starts with something like 'none of this all matters'..and then 'Faraday' repeats that.
Now that first person DEFINITELY sounds like Jack tho...it isn't him..but sure do sounds like him.
Oh..and I really suggest people who hear 'dammit Laura' to get hearing machines... It's so clear that he says Stanislav or Stanislar...

LostFreakButNotLikeYall

03-06-09, 09:36 PM

Z054J

03-06-09, 09:40 PM

Check the TLE/ARG or maybe Multimedia forums for possible in-depth discussions. (I don't hang around in those much, so I don't know for sure.)

There are also comments on it at Lostpedia.

enginedown

03-06-09, 09:45 PM

i'm pretty sure that when that aired at comic con, daniel wasn't yet introduced as a character. wait, maybe he was. comic con july 2008.. season 4 was before that. very interesting! that was the first time i've seen that since comic con. i didn't notice that was daniel's voice behind the camera when i first saw it.

LostFreakButNotLikeYall

03-07-09, 06:27 PM

Thats exactly what I was going to point out. That is most definatly Daniel's voice.

scotpgot

03-07-09, 06:32 PM

Merged with the thread in The Lost Experience. There's a pretty interesting thread already established there.

IBurningStar

04-27-09, 07:53 AM

Don't mean to necro a thread, but it looks like this is where it belongs. This might be a spoiler in some weird way so I'm going to go ahead and throw that out there.

After watching the video again I noticed something that I don't think anyone did before. Least, I can't find mention of it. One of the last lines that Chang says sounds like it could be, "Lafleur, what are you doing?" Here is a quick link to it:
YouTube - Lost Panel Comic Con Dr. Marvin Candle Video

Just fast forward to a bit before 3:30, which is when he actually says it.

RoseArienh

04-27-09, 08:00 AM

Nice catch!! He sure did say LaFleur.

RadioDave

05-08-09, 04:18 PM

OK... so we're just days away from the season finale and we have yet to see this video pop up on the show... so I have a few questions for everybody:

1.Will we see Chang actually record this message during the season finale? Remember at Comic-Con 2007 we saw the making of the Orchid video that popped up during the S4 finale.

2.The person working the camera during this video sounds exactly like Daniel. I can't think of anyone else it could be, or at least, no one else on the island that sounds like that. Problem is... Daniel is dead. So does he miraculously come back to life, or did he somehow already record this video with Chang, and we just haven't seen it yet?

3.The mention of LaFleur sounds pretty clear to me... excellent catch IBurningStar! So let's assume he's there too. You'd think he'd be working with Dan and Chang to get this message out... any idea why he'd want to interfere with this?

4.Chang talks about reconstituting the Dharma Initiative... could this video be what led to the "What lies in the shadow of the statue" people? Maybe those people are reconstituted Dharma-ites (as others have suggested).

Any way it shakes out... I'm just really hoping we see this video come Wednesday night!

sgtdraino

05-08-09, 10:26 PM

Me too, but it's not looking very likely now. Daniel's dead, and "LaFleur" has been stripped of his position and put on the sub. Word on the street is that this video is considered by TPTB to just be a "promotional item," and not really part of the Lost story.

I am hoping they were deceiving us when they said that. :)

snakey

05-10-09, 03:16 PM

The last audio podcast talks about the ARG, same as before- only whats on the show is canon, not the comic con vid or any of the many we had in the args. They also reiterated that the arg was abandoned with the financial meltdown, you'd think that would have been budgeted in way before it was to start.

RadioDave

05-13-09, 12:33 AM

Man that stinks. I knew the ARG was toast because of the economy, but I was kinda hoping this video was a connection between the ARG and the show.

What's weird is, they probably had Season 5 mapped out by the time Comic Con came around. So then wouldn't they know where they were going with things when the video was made? So regardless of what happened with the ARG, you wouldn't think that would have affected any plans to put this video in the show.

Oh well.