11:15

[SecretSquirrel911]

This time was repeated many time in "House of the Rising House"...I think it means something. I really believe it is in reference to a bible passage. I'm invesigating now, but I'm at work so it's hard.

Any thoughts?

[SecretSquirrel911]

Romans 11:15

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

[schwartzcaster]

What a great find!! I think that's a great quote. Even if that wasn't the intention of the producers (and I'd like to think it was), that's a great find.

[gscaleta]

1 Timothy 2 11-15

11 Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection.
12 But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve;
14 and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman being beguiled hath fallen into transgression:
15 but she shall be saved through her child-bearing, if they continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety.

[gscaleta]

Revelation 20 11-15

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[Radagast de Brun]

I think Revelations 11:15 is a rather obvous candidate. It is one of the more famous verses. It involves the seventh trumpet and the beginning of the apocalypse.

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

[Vicki]

Wow some of this stuff could really fit into the story, good find. :)

[schwartzcaster]

I think, with the Adam and Eve talk in "House", Timothy 11-15 would be the one.

[Diceman]

Consider also Matthew 11:15, First book of the "New" Testament:
He who hath ears to hear, let him hear!
I'm sure you could locate other appropriate Bible references so perhaps it's not a Biblical thing. Koreans and the Bible???

[bigmouth]

Dunno what planet you're on, diceman, but where I'm from koreans are obsessed with christianity and the bible!

Seriously, though, very interesting catch re 11:15, secretsquirrel. I don't think anything's a coincidence on this show.

[Diceman]

Koreans have a great melding pot of many different beliefs. Shaman-ism (Spirit World), Buddhism and the introduction to Christianity is intermingled with their traditional beliefs. I would agree that our LOST Korean couple seem quite modernized so the Biblical references are likely most appropriate.

[gscaleta]

There seems to be some strong evidence this can be a judgment day type scenario and the so called monster is a force coming to bring you to your final destination (heaven or hell). It took the pilot because he had atolled somehow for his wrongs and it left Jack and Locke because they were not ready or finished. Locke did say he looked into the eyes so maybe the force told him what to do. It will be interesting to see what happens the next time this force or whatever shows up. Then again there are other theories about time travel etc that have valid points. I think the writers are putting different options for endings in the plot and listening to us (the posters) to guage where to go next. Just my thoughts.

[schwartzcaster]

Look at the story of Adam and Eve and then and the story of Sun and Jin. Because he loved Sun he went into a pact with the devil (the father) and gave away who he was.

[MEmacmur]

Timothy 11:15 seems like a nice fit to me.

Could lead to two things:

1) We see Sun help out Michale with raising/caring for Walt
2) If Claire does die in childbirth as some have speculated, she could take over the role of mother, redeeming herself.

MEmacmur

[cccourt]

Secret Squirrel: You have squirrelled yourself away much too long. Now that you have come out into the light...don't be a stranger. It never would have occurred to me...but that is because I perseverated on the twenty three thousand mentioned in Kate's flashback episode. In the end, it meant nothing....except to all those who love the number 23.
ccc:hat

[drabauer]

Timothy 11:15 seems to fit because if you'll recall Sun didn't leave Jin, but at the last moment stuck with him "which is what wives do for their husbands," to paraphrase Jin. Now, if 11:15 shows up attached to another castaway's story, I would look at a larger interpretation. If it doesn't, it could still indicate that everyone has there own bible verse, and thus we should remain vigilant for other significant numbers (aside from the aforementioned 47 and 23).

Abrams loves 47 as all Alias fans know, and Chris Carter used it often in the X-Files (as Mulder's apt no., etc), but does it mean anything besides the "secret of the universe" in Douglas Adams' Hitchiker novels?

[MonsterEatsPilot]

I thought 42 was the answer to Life, The Universe and Everything...

Ah, but what was the question...

-P

[drabauer]

Ah purrkins, you are right! My bad. So we are back to what is 47 (I know others have tackled this, but I wasn't satisfied with the answers on the old thread!)

[Mithril379]

I missed the first "47" discussion, but here is more information than we could ever use on the number 47. It includes pop culture uses of 47, including the Star Trek spin offs and Alias. My favorite description is "47 is 42, adjusted for inflation" :b

www.wordiq.com/definition/47_(number) (http://www.wordiq.com/definition/47_(number))

[drabauer]

Thanks Mithril! That truly does explain it all 8)

by my calculations if for any number in the total universe of numbers, that number can be shown to be equivalent to the number 47, and the number 47 was embedded in every episode of Star Trek, and every episode of Star Trek has been repeated at least 47 times, and every sci-fi show since that time has contained a tribute to the number 47, then every sci-fi show=Star Trek

better check that again ...

[SecretSquirrel911]

Sorry, yesterday was a busy day at work. "11:15" may be nothing, but it makes for good discussion. I just couldn't help but notice the Close-up on the clock above Sun in the airport and the fact that "11:15" was mentioned repeatedly in Sun's conversation with her friend in the bedroom.

It may not come from the bible, but it means something. But when you think about it, lots of story ideas in TV and film have biblical relevance.

[SecretSquirrel911]

Hebrews 11:15

And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned

VERY FITTING!!!

[DHARMA]

I would have loved to say that she was leaving at 11:15. thus her exodus was at 11:15. Unfortunately, Exodus 11:15 does not exist. So, I'll say I like Rev 11:15 the best:
Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign for ever and ever."

[SecretSquirrel911]

Yeah...that's been brought up before too. Many 11:15 throughout the bible seem to fit. I going to rewatch the episode and see if there are any other clues.

[gscaleta]

well squirrel I have a question. I've read you are very against the purgatory theme which is cool cause frankly I am too. It would be a anti-climatic way to steer the show and I hope it's more interesting than that. My question is then why try and find meaning in the bible?? Maybe the 11:15 is just a misdirection tactic?? Your thoughts?????

[Hawkmistress]

1115 was the year of the establishment of the Jin dynasty in the Far East. The Jin dynasty, which originated in China, at that time ruled over the area that is now Korea (I think Korea was then considered part of Manchuria). And the fact that the numbers 11:15 appeared in an episode focusing on two Korean characters, one of whom is named Jin, doesn't seem like a coincidence to me.

Please correct me if I have made any errors in my historical research.

[gscaleta]

Ok now that makes sense. So let's say that is what the writers were trying to convey then what does it mean? That Jin somehow will become the leader of the island??

[DHARMA]

WOW! That's amazing. I Google it, and you're right on. I love how this show is making us think outside the box. Long live LOST!

[SecretSquirrel911]

It very well could be a misdirection, JJ is very good at creating mazes. Just because I'm aganist them being in Purgitory doesn't mean I'm against reglious undertones or hiden meanings. JJ did say every "prop" you see was put there for a reason. "11:15" being in the bible was me thinking out loud. It was the colon actually!

[SecretSquirrel911]

Way to go Hawk! Sucks I've spend so much time filing through bible quotes the last 48 hours.

Nice...very nice!

[SecretSquirrel911]

And once the clock hit 11:15 Jin took over, so Sun was under his power. Too bad she didn't plan to leave at 11:14.

[Hawkmistress]

I think the writers were using the Jin dynasty's rule over Korea as a metaphor for Jin's attempts to rule over Sun. Also I think the rulers of the Jin dynasty could have been considered warlords at that time, and Jin has kind of joined up with a warlord dynasty in the form of working as an enforcer for Sun's father's mob. Jin's attitude about the watch and it being a matter of honor to protect it as well as his chauvinism seem attitudes consistent with a medieval warlord culture like the Jin dynasty. In this case, we're dealing with Eastern rather than Western medievalism and it's showing us how all of us are more alike than not since many Westerners today still cling to some rather medievalistic attitudes.

Also I think the writers want to make us exercise our brains by researching this things, and then also be impressed by how clever and knowledgeable they are.

[gscaleta]

hmmm sounds like everyone is on to something. I'm thinking possibly that the father was killed by someone and they took the watch and that's why sun got so angry. I don't think you would beat on someone that "found" the watch so we may see something later about that. And another thought is the name "SUN" in reference to a JIN dynasty. Once again a light/dark reference possibly.

[SecretSquirrel911]

Hawk: Chat Room

[cccourt]

an error: Honey...you are the new Queen!! You stand up there with Maxpublic and Pinnerman...and Dr. A...finding the dwarfs in Indonesia!!
We aren't worthy!! Thanks...and keep posting.
ccc:hat

[Hawkmistress]

SecretSquirrel, where is the chat room?

[LostinTrinity]

Since I've volunteered as the island's most helpful, the chat room is avaliable at the top of the main forum area. It says "Join live chat" or something like that.

[drabauer]

Hawkmistress that was a terrific find! Not only for this ep, but for opening up the dialogue to include political as well as spiritual and literary allegory. More black/white imagery, yes, and support for another theory I have, kind of Lord of the Flies on steroids:

I think we will see all major forms of government/social organization mirrored on the island as the survivors form groups, divide and mix.

[leftofpunk]

after watching this episode again, I can't say I buy into a bible passage at all. 11:15 was really only mentioned once. You can't count the times she says it cause she's only saying it that many times in order to remember. 11:15 was only in reference to one event and not to many things.

I don't think 11:15 means anything..not untill something...anything else mentions 11:15

[JacksGirlfriend]

Punk: Has Pinnerman been putting pressure on you to question, question, question!!! Never take anything at face value!!! Wait until you're sure before you say anything!!!

You learn well, young Jedi. I admire your caution and restraint.

JacksGirl

[leftofpunk]

No, it just looked like this thread was getting out of hand and so I downloaded the episode and watched it for 11:15 OTHER than the time Sun was supposed to split and it never happened.

[JacksGirlfriend]

Punk: Very astute.

JacksGirl

[PlaneJane22]

If you google 11:15, this is the first link that pops up. Funny that it's about Korea. The word "Korea" did not appear in my search.

www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/11/20021115-8.html (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/11/20021115-8.html)

[JacksGirlfriend]

Wow Jane - that's a little eerie actually.

Perhaps Jin is involved in some kind of spy business... (just opening some more dialogue)

The bigger question is: Why didn't this post duplicate three or four times.

JacksGirl

[cccourt]

You did realize the date on the release was 15 Nov, didn't you?

[PlaneJane22]

yes. i wasn't trying to put forward a theory on anything i just thought it was a neat coincidence. most of the stuff that popped up was date related, stuff happening on various nov. 15ths, but it was neat that the first hit related to korea.

[annala413]

All of these make sense to me and Im almost sure this is a bogus suggestion but maybe the reason that they have not been saved is not because of the misdirection of satelites, but maybe they are in fact left behind from the apocolypse. I read a few of my grandma's Left Behind" series books, and when everyone disapears, those that are left behind have no radio signals and stuff like that.

[leftofpunk]

Left Behind and Kirk Cameron can bite it!

[MangaKhan]

The Left Behind books are Awesome. The movie leaves a little to be desired.

Enjoy the tribulation when it comes lefty!

[Master Xander]

Saving this thread from death.