Locke is a Spirit Guide

[LostInWilderness]

It just struck me tonight. Locke was refused participation in walkabout before he got on the plane. His general survival skills, wise man persona - helping people find what they need instead of what they want, making hallucinogenic drugs, etc. all point to an aborigine Spirit Guide. He sent Boone into Dreamtime. Tonight when Boone attacked him at the end the music even sounded like that aborigine sound maker on a rope noise.

His mention of the deity of Michaelangelo in the same breath he compared himself to Michaelangelo clearly suggests a spiritual influence on the island. Locke magically threw the knife exactly where Boone needed it to be.

I think this makes Locke a prime candidate to die and go to heaven or nirvana or wherever aborigines go when they die.

[Bigbadbill]

Somethings a foot! Locke is too powerful right know to survive. He is almost all knowing. Perhaps he'll die or go on his own vision quest, walkabout. Will the writers give Locke a nemesis or is that the dark part of the Island? Anyway I hope we get another full season of Locke. Terry is a great actor and the character is so well written. He's part John Wayne part Grampa Walten and hole lot of Daniel Boone.

LostinWilderness keep your comments coming.

Spirit guide moments

Jack over the cliff -talk about being a leader
Charlie and drugs
Walt knives, backgammon and magic
Claire and the crib
Boone and the mentoring then the visions
Sayid, giving him the knife to get sawyer.. ( I still wonder if he was testing Sayid or just hoped he'd do Sawyer in)
Shannon (telling her not to worry about Boone and you can start over here.)

What did I forget?

What's your favorite Locke moment? I loved the way he told the story of Michaelangelo. It reminded me of people who played baseball seasons in their head, batter by batter, swing by swing.

Later

[LostInWilderness]

Bigbadbill, apparently it's just you and me. Everybody else is worried about how fast Locke's go-cart was when he was 10. The island doesn't care.

[Gambit980]

no that his actually not the case. If you wish to go on a spiritual journey that involves Locke please proceed to The all knowing Dream time thread (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sage?topicID=1018.topic) I must warn you it is a long read, but it is throughly enjoyable. I would love the show to go in this direction.

[Bigbadbill]

Lostinwilderness how did you like that one?

Yep everyone is concerned with the past and not now...

I would of hated it if Locke was a secret agent man....

I love the depth this last ep gave to the character wasn't that a brilliant show. I think Lock may survive, he was invincible until tonight and now he has vunarabilites.

[LostInWilderness]

Another great episode for sure, and a great performance too.

I got this quote from patch in the episode thread:
"I am kind of shocked that no one thinks it's interesting that Locke was abandoned by his mother for the large part of his life and Claire narrowly missed doing the same thing with her son. Both are told to be special."

I said elsewhere Locke was tied to Claire's baby through the cradle, and patch tied them together even further. I'm afraid that has to die to make sure Claire's baby lives. The Spirit Guide makes life to easy for everybody else.

[Brian]

Bigbadbill,

Hmm....interesting. You bring up a very good point. Locke was in Australia to go on walkabout and came up empty. What's to say he doesn't fulfill that prophecy by going on walkabout on the island? It would definitely play into his character.

That said, I have to disagree with my own speculation because I don't think Locke is going to venture very far from the hatch, at least not for an extended period of time. I'd love to see Locke take a new prodigy (Sayid?) and continue working on the hatch. I think if Locke and Sayid joined forces they could find a way into the hatch very quickly.

Interesting indeed. Thanks for reminding me of the walkabout angle.

[Don'tkillbill]

I'm not sure how the show is going to turn? My gut is that we'll have Locke in the mix next season for two reasons: to good of a story not to write and if Locke was gone or marginalized this would a day time soap at night and (I hope)viewer ship would decline.

I do beleive that we are going to see someone come out of the hatch and we'll likely find that there are indeed other and perhaps pockets of people. Maybe someone from the plane actually survived. Maybe Alex is alive, maybe there is another plane wreck or boat wreck with another group.

ANyway after Locke gets his hatch open I hope we see him back into his mentoring roll and bag Hurley a nice pork sandwich.

[LostInWilderness]

Like drabauer and I were discussing, the tipping point of the plane crashing and killing Boone foreshadows a major shift the plot of the show. I'm pretty sure Locke will live, and he and Jack will be adversaries. I expect Locke will keep his powers, but his role will change dramatically - he'll probably become a leader himself.

[Don'tkillbill]

Lostinwilderness that interests me..

Will Locke be part of a tribe of so called misfits or outcasts. Perhaps those banished from the goodie two shoes tribe will form up on the beach. Or those 40 some people living between the beach and the caves will become disenchanted with Dr J annoying little facial ticks.

The other option is they take his knives, all but one and give him a suitcase full of cloths and banish him. He might just get into the hatch or even better hook up with Danielle.

If I knew the answers I wouldn't be interested I guess.

My own thoughts are that Locke is fundamently a white hat and will be treated as such although he is no doubt going to do things that will appear dark and evil.

IF I were on the Islande I'd make Locke a friend and perhaps Jin and Sayid.

[LostInWilderness]

Dontkillbill do you follow theories? As I've expressed in theories and in here, Locke has identified himself with Claire's baby. I thought it would lead to his death, but in fact, he has recruited Claire to his side. Remember Locke telling Boone he wanted Sayid on his side much earlier. Remember Charlie telling Jack, (paraphrase) "no offense, but if I trust one person to get us off this island it's John Locke." Do you remember Jack refusing to help Claire because of Boone? Locke has Claire, her baby, and Charlie securely in his camp. Walt is clearly in Locke's camp. I also think in Do No Harm, that Sun turned away from Jack not just literally, but symbolically. I think Sun is in Locke's camp.

Shannon is clearly with Jack, and she will pull Sayid along.

We can extrapolate at least one more from the needs of the show. Jack's camp needs food. Jin is split from Sun - he will probably end up in in Jack's camp. Kate is a tracker and adept in the jungle. She has also always been with Jack and never with Locke - whom she just evaluated on the boar hunt and chasing Ethan. She's likely to side with Jack.

Everyone else is up in the air, and predictions have run wild elsewhere in theories. Check them out, and check out my hatch versus the high ground thread if you haven't already.

[LostInWilderness]

In Greater Good, Locke was a pretty impotent Spirit Guide at best.

In his usual fashion he shows up in the nick of time at Boone's funeral. After making a statement, and showing a bit of self-doubt, he allowed himself to be tackled by terribly weakened Jack. Did Locke lose some power with that confidence, or did he just allow Jack to tackle him. It's easy to believe Locke allowed Jack to tackle him.

When Locke and Sayid visit the plane, Sayid seems in control, but I think in this case Locke just allowed that to happen. He gave up the gun without question then admitted to whacking Sayid in the head before. I believe Locke was in control of this situation the whole time, that he could have checked Sayid at any time. It was interesting how he carelessly flipped the Virgin Mary while Sayid was in the plane - but I'm not sure of the significance.

Finally something really weird happens. Shannon manages to track Locke through the rainy jungle. I'm sure there's a bit of a trail, but we're talking Shannon! Shannon not only tracks Locke, but apparently sneaks up on him and gets the drop while Locke is helpless. Locke is not in control of this situation. Maybe Locke knows that Sayid will show up in the nick of time, but this seems an incredible risk unless he can now clearly see he will be saved by Sayid. So either his viewing/premonition powers have increased, or his faith has increased, or he has lost some of his powers.

What does everybody think?

[Hodgepodge]

LIW, you know something I found normal to Locke's MO. In the scene where he thanks Sayid for saving his life. He looks over at Shannon and says, "I know what you had to give up." Doesn't that sound like a Locke lesson and parable?

[Brian]

LIW,

Nice thoughts! I was a little surprised to see him show up at Boone's funeral. Not because I didn't think he wanted to be there but because I thought that by doing so it would lead to exactly where it did (i.e. closing scene). I figured he would have gone about disclosing the hatch in a different way.

Like you I completely agree that Locke was the one in control of the confrontation between Locke and Sayid at the Beechcraft crash-site. It was like a mental chess game between the two. Locke explaining and then Sayid coming out of nowhere with the "Well, you're carrying a gun.......(don't remember the rest)" and Locke handing over the gun. Even thought there is this issue of trust between Locke and Sayid, I don't think Locke handed over the gun to gain Sayid's trust. That simple act wouldn't garner trust, at least not in Locke's mind. He handed over the gun to Sayid to just lay everything out on the table, show all the cards, just get down to basics. It wasn't about trust, it was about "OK, I know who you are, you know who I am, now what are we going to do about it?" Just my .02.

Now, the Shannon scene is completely different. Locke has a relationship with Sayid. It isn't necessarily one of trust but it's there nonetheless. I don't think Shannon got the drop on Locke at all. Come on, it's Shannon! :) Seriously though, I think Locke allowed that confrontation to happen. Why? Glad you asked! Boone's gone and Locke needs a new apprentice/helper/follower/fill-in-the-blank. Who better than Sayid? How better to draw in Sayid than to use Shannon? How better to gain Sayid's all too important trust than to show Sayid how fraile/fragile Shannon is? Locke doesn't give a rat's furry rear end about Sayid and Shannon's relationship, but he can use the questions there to better his own position, Locke's that is. I mean, Locke already admitted to knocking Sayid out for the well being of everyone, so how unrealistic is it to believe that Locke would use Shannon to get to Sayid? Seems like the easy way out to me.

To answer a question you posed at the end of your posting, I think that after the Boone incident, his "powers" and faith have increased. Take his powers for what you will, this discussion isn't about that necessarily, but I think his faith in surroundings and cohorts is getting more narrowed. He's looking to bring in Sayid, Walt would be there if it weren't for Michael. He's very selective and I believe that's by design.

We'll all find out together. The previews showed even Jack at the hatch so who knows what we'll see next week. Maybe even Locke could convert Jack.

[LostInWilderness]

It sure does Hodge, lending credence to the theory that he manipulated the situation for Sayid's benefit. It also earned him a [wary] ally. Locke once told Boone that he wanted Sayid on his side, now he is.

I also agree with Leuthen that Locke was putting it all on the table, not gain Sayid's trust, but to enlighten Sayid to the Greater Good. I'm not sure Sayid got the whole message, but he got enough to allow him to work with Locke.

This episode looks a lot better when viewed as a case of Locke recruiting Sayid. Maybe that's what I've been missing.

[Brian]

LIW,

Gettin' tired of me yet? :) Seriously though, to reply to your comments, I agree that I don't think Sayid has the "bigger picture" yet in his mind.

I believe that Locke did what he did to "clean the slate" so to speak between himself and Sayid. It leaves nothing to question, nothing to distrust, nothing to question. That's apparent in the closing scene when Sayid comes to Locke and said, "Take me to the hatch." or whatever it was he said. That's what I got from that scene.

I think that Sayid is going to be brought further in in coming episodes. The previews show Locke, Sayid, and (huh!) Jack at the hatch. Given Jack's previous character development, he'll most likely just blow this off. The preview also showed Walt stating, "Don't open that" or something along that line. It didn't show Walt at the hatch so who knows if Walt's talking about the hatch? We all assume he is. If I'm wrong I apologize, it was hectic night Wednesday.

Personally, I think the title of this episode relates entirely to the scene at the Beechcraft between Locke and Sayid and Locke's revelation about knocking Sayid out earlier. Greater Good. That's what it's all about.

Just my .02.

[Ancientwanker]

I cant wait for the part where Locke faces down the Balrog on the bridge of khazad-dum. That should rock!!

[Hodgepodge]

Leuthen says:...I don't think Shannon got the drop on Locke at all. Come on, it's Shannon! Seriously though, I think Locke allowed that confrontation to happen. Why? Glad you asked! Boone's gone and Locke needs a new apprentice/helper/follower/fill-in-the-blank. Who better than Sayid? How better to draw in Sayid than to use Shannon? How better to gain Sayid's all too important trust than to show Sayid how fraile/fragile Shannon is? Locke doesn't give a rat's furry rear end about Sayid and Shannon's relationship, but he can use the questions there to better his own position, Locke's that is. I mean, Locke already admitted to knocking Sayid out for the well being of everyone, so how unrealistic is it to believe that Locke would use Shannon to get to Sayid? Seems like the easy way out to me... I agree 100%! Like you, I've looked at this episode again. The Greater Good, may've been a complete setup by Locke. As I said in my previous post, it has that Locke "feel".

Now, what does that say about Boone's death. Was Boone not the real chosen disciple? Was Locke after Sayid all along?

[Brian]

Hodgepodge,

Thanks! I was really going out on a limb there but as you stated, what I was writing had that Locke "feel" to it. It just made sense, at least to me at the time, and still does.

To answer your question. Hmmm.....that's hard to answer, really. Was Boone not the real "chosen" one? I don't know. However, I don't think Sayid was either. I think the Boone experience as it relates to Locke was yet another stepping stone to Sayid. Of course, by saying that, I'm implying that Boone was "used" in some way by Locke. I don't think Boone was used by Locke but by the island through Locke. I still think the island is using Locke or at least guiding him in some way whether he realizes it or not.

Hopefully the answers are coming and this will all make more sense.

[Hodgepodge]

Leuthen says:...I don't think Boone was used by Locke but by the island through Locke. I still think the island is using Locke or at least guiding him in some way whether he realizes it or not...
I think you've got a good bet here. The island took away Locke's ability to walk. This obviously forced Boone into that Beechcraft. But, I always come back to Locke's dream/vision. He was aware Boone was going to get bloody in this endeavor. Maybe he just didn't foresee how bloody?

Leuthen, I'd like to get your thoughts about that last scene in Deus Ex Machina. Locke's at the hatch and says. " I've done everything you wanted me to do. So why did you do this? Why?" Then we see the light go on inside the hatch.

Can you interpret this as possibly Locke asking why the island took away his mobility, or do you assume, like me and everybody else, he's talking about Boone? Also, do you think Locke's been inside the hatch?

[LostInWilderness]

I thought you guys brought me on board. Maybe I was the first to swallow the whole apple. ;)

Boone was never chosen. Boone followed Locke without Locke asking, but he told Boone early on they needed Sayid on their side. Remember when Locke gave Sayid the compass? This was a Locke setup all the way, including his pushing of Shannon by wearing the bloody shirt.

[azteclady]

A few months ago, railwaymadness posted this:

"Locke's ability to administer a "homemade vegetable preparation" is entirely fitting with his walkabout obsession. He still seems to be treating this entire experience as the walkabout he spent so long preparing for. In many ways he's probably right to do so; if he had been allowed on the commercial walkabout in Australia I doubt it would have stood up to its marketing as an authentic spiritual journey. Facilitating hallucinatory experiences for therapeutic purposes fits with my understanding of the walkabout and puts Locke one step higher on the "shaman" scale in my book.

"So I believe Boone being drugged fits nicely with what we have seen before. Which is not to say that the island had no influence; it shapes everything."

The original post can be found (at least for now - ezboard breaks links when the original threads are moved) here. (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm2.showMess age?topicID=1419.topic&index=16) For some reason, though, I cannot see the rest of the thread it belongs in. I'll keep looking, and hopefully will be able to post that link later.

[Brian]

Hodge,

I've spent a few days now mulling over your questions. I wanted to give you a thought out answer and not something that just comes "off the cuff" so to speak.

So, here we go................(Disclaimer - please read this with an open mind and it helps if you know how to play Chess!)

1 - "I think you've got a good bet here. The island took away Locke's ability to walk. This obviously forced Boone into that Beechcraft. But, I always come back to Locke's dream/vision. He was aware Boone was going to get bloody in this endeavor. Maybe he just didn't foresee how bloody?"

I agree with you that the island took away Locke's ability to walk. However, I disagree with you that the "bloody Boone" vision related to the Beechcraft AS LOCKE SAW IT AT THE TIME. Hindsight is always 20/20 and we now know that's what the "bloody Boone" meant, however, at the time with him (Boone) rambling on about Theresa, there's no way Locke could have put that together with the (at that point) still undiscovered Beechcraft. The island wanted Boone on that plane and not Locke. Why? I've speculated before that it isn't Locke, nor Boone that the island wants. (So who does the island want? Keep reading, I'll get there.) I think this was done as a stepping stone to Sayid. I don't necessarily think that the island "wants" Sayid either in any way other than to get Sayd and Locke working together. Knowing what we know now, it seems like a pretty good plan. It worked.

So now we have to ask ourselves, "Why does the island want Locke and Sayid working together?" Probably because the island knows what we do, that there's nothing that can't be accomplished when those two minds get together and work for a common goal. Who knows, perhaps the trebuchet incident could have turned out differently had Sayid been there with Locke. Perhaps the trebuchet would never have been tried at all. Perhaps now we'll find out the answers to those questions now that the island has aligned Locke and Sayid. Again, I never said they like/trust each other, but they are (apparently) now going to be working together. Imagine the possibilities.

2 - "Leuthen, I'd like to get your thoughts about that last scene in Deus Ex Machina. Locke's at the hatch and says. " I've done everything you wanted me to do. So why did you do this? Why?" Then we see the light go on inside the hatch. Can you interpret this as possibly Locke asking why the island took away his mobility, or do you assume, like me and everybody else, he's talking about Boone? Also, do you think Locke's been inside the hatch?"

This is the question that's caused me to delay answering your post for a couple of days now so let's find out what I think together, shall we? :)

This is a difficult concept to get my arms around, much less my mind. I don't think he was referring to his mobility, or Boone. Why? Glad you asked. I think he was referring to "setting the scene" so to speak. He's referring to everything he's done to obtain the alignments the island is looking for/needs. What does that mean? I don't know, I'm not a writer of the show, it's just my .02.

I think from the very beginning the island has been playing a very well thought out game of chess. It's been positioning people at the right places at the right times for the "greater good" if I may. It used the polar bear to bring Michael to Locke through Walt after Michael told Locke outright that if he (Locke) ever messed with his son (Walt) again, he'd kill him (Locke). That scene was a careful calculation by the island. Also, through Shannon, the island brought Shannon face to face with Locke to bring about the alignment with Sayid. Again, how better to get to Sayid (at this point) than through Shannon? Then there's the burning of the original raft. Again, an incident used to solidify Lockes words/thought process with the other survivors. Yeah, I know it was Walt, but if the island works through Locke, why not Walt as well? Then there's the Boone incident/death. Again, the island working through one to bring two others together, in this case, perhaps, Jack and Locke, or perhaps Shannon/Sayid and Locke. Who really knows?

At this point it almost seems as though the island is playing a chess game with the survivors; aligning them piece by piece for something yet to come. Given this analogy, Locke would be the Queen, (if you don't know chess, this is going to be lost on you and you were warned :) ), able to move anywhere at anytime enveloping the target, pretty much the most powerful player. Walt would be the King, the one to be protected at all costs even if it means sacrificing pawns (Boone/Ethan?). Kate and Jack would be the Bishops, pretty much straight minded in their actions and thought processes. They react to their surroundings and pretty much move in that direction. Sawyer and Sayid would be the Knights. They move in non-linear directions and their unpredictability makes them dangerous and helpful at the same time. You never know where they're going to show up and if you don't pay attention to them, they'll make you pay. Charlie and Hurley would be Rooks. Protective, reactionary, linear but always looking out for everyone. Sometimes you just don't know what to do with them but they're important nonetheless.

All that said, the island may be playing virtual chess with the Lostaways, but they're playing along whether they know it or not. It's a symbiotic relationship. I think the island NEEDS the Lostaways and they definitely need the island to survive. I think they're working together for mutual survival.

For all I know this series could end up with a "Checkmate" that blows us away! Time will tell and I'll enjoy the game as it unfolds.

Something I felt I needed to update here. So, given what I have written, many will query "So who are the main players in this chess game?" Glad you asked. On one side we have the island, on the other side we have the hatch. They are interconnected but we don't know how and/or why. It's plausible (ever attend one of those possibility/plausibility classes.......mind-wrecking) however impossible that the island the hatch (and thereby what lies beneath) are pitted against each other. Think about it...........

[Brian]

Hodgepodge,

I just realized that I didn't answer your final question, one that is probably the most important.

Do I think Locke's been inside the hatch?

Absolutely not. After the scene you mentioned, it's plausible to assume that when the light came on, that was Locke's ticket "in" so to speak. I don't think so. If Locke was ever allowed free access to the hatch, that is with no one else around (i.e after the light came on, it just opened up) not even Shannon could find him . He'd be gone, at least for a time.

The island won't allow the hatch to open until everyone is aligned as I stated in my previous post. It's almost like a Tomb Raider kind of thing. Once everything is in place and the stars align, blah, blah, blah, then the hatch will open. I don't think it's going to open during Season 1. That said, I'll probably be proven wrong but I'm always pulling for the underdog. :) :rollin

[Hodgepodge]

Leuthen, see what your well thought out answer has done. Its forced me to do the same. And, I've found I like putting together cogent thoughts. I may have to do it more often. ;)

I love you chess analogy. And yes, I've been playing since high school. So you ideas weren't lost on the uninitiated.

I'd like to clarify a couple of things before continuing. When I mentioned the Beechcraft, I wasn't necessarily involving it in Boone's demise. When I used the word endeavor, I was including everything involved in their journey. I was making the point that Locke knew Boone was going to get bloody, and he selfishly continued.

Now to your post!

I happen to read Pinnerman's season ending Philly revision a couple of days ago. And it got me to thinking, which has always been a bad thing. If the island is some how phased into invisibility, because of the "time" experiments Danielle and her crew preformed, maybe some of its previous inhabitants may also be invisible. Ala, the whispers. These "Other" inhabitants maybe invisible to our survivors, but they maybe able to manipulate objects in this "time". I'll try to illustrate taking into account your theory that the island wants Locke and Sayid to work together.

Boone's up in the Beechcraft. Now this plane has been stuck in this position, according to Locke 2-10 years. These "Others" who I propose are invisible, pushed the plane over the precipice. Maybe their intentions were to injure and not kill, but to use your words, "it worked. It looks like Locke and Sayid are going to be working together."

Using your words again. "Why does the island want Locke and Sayid working together." If we go to the whispers. "They could help us." They now have the, "two best minds on the island working on a common goal." I don't think opening the hatch will solve anything. It's just a way to get the two of them to "Black Rock". JMO!

Now on to your chess gambit. As I mentioned earlier, I loves the analogy. And, I agree 100%, the island has been moving pieces into strategic alignment since our survivors crashed on the island. Like you, I'm not sure of the purpose except maybe to affiliate our survivors with a particular side.

There's been speculation that there are more than two groups of inhabitants on the island. Our survivors, the "Others", and possibly an evil group. Now I may have the groups reversed. The evil group may actually be innocuous, and the "Others" evil. Buy you get my drift.

I've theorized since the beginning there's going to be a conflict or war on the island. I think our survivors will align themselves with a side. Now whether this side includes Walt and/or Turniphead, I don't know. But one of the Lost themes, light and dark, good and evil definitely fits this pattern.

And I agree, from further analysis, Locke's hasn't opened the hatch. It just seemed like the delay in him coming back to the beach encampment was strange. I mean, supposedly he had know idea whether Boone was alive or dead. Boy, does that bring up another question!

Locke wasn't aware of Boone's death. Yet he leaves him with Jack for treatment. Goes back to the hatch, and cries the dialog I mentioned in my previous post. Why didn't Locke check on him? I came to the conclusion while watching Deus Ex Machina, Locke had adopted Boone as his son. He even calls him son on their journey to find the Beechcraft. Why didn't he check on his son? He did the same think his father did to him. Leave him in the care of a doctor and vanish.

[Don'tkillbill]

The fencing between Locke and Jack seems like game play to Locke and Jack gets all huffy. Locke keeps his cool stands his ground but I wonder if they truly are at odds or is Locke just trying to rein in our good Dr so he'll be more effective against the bad guys?

Who are the others? Will Ethan's brethren walk out of the jungle and hack to pieces the survivors or is it deeper than that? Will the others turn out to be the inner demons? Certainly Locke will lead the tribe or a part of a tribe to safety.

I'm interested in his interaction with Danielle.

Should be a fun few hours of watching left!

[LostInWilderness]

Hodge, wow. From my first day posting, you have challenged me, disagreed, and agreed across the boards. I believe you politely rebuked me on my first post (with your old girlfriend Az.) ;) But I never saw you post your own theory before. I like it. Dude, take it to T&S. Open this theory and defend it against the slings and arrows. (And don't be thin skinned like other long time posters! :rollin )

Nice post.

[azteclady]

Hodgepodge, this is indeed a really cool post from you!

Doesn't mean I've forgotten nor forgiven you for your cavalier treatment of ole lil moi all over the place. No, siree!!! No more Miss Nice Flirty Gal!

LostInWilderness, I resent that 'old girlfriend' comment!

*leaving thread in a huff*

(but just temporarily - have been working on a long post for here)

[LostInWilderness]

Hodge, I gotta say, take it to T&S. I'm going to shack up with Az here. ;) Az?

[MagiclBlingBling]

"Why didn't he check on his son? He did the same think his father did to him. Leave him in the care of a doctor and vanish."

Okay, so Locke never really got a good paternal role model. He still turned okay as a guide I think (I saw his 'fleeing the scene' differently). I found his destination to be more important. Locke has seen the island as a caretaker and a guide, so why not go ask it for help and counsel when the situation has spun out of Locke's control? I see him doing this by going and pleading with the hatch (it's more likey to work than sobbing in front of a bush). I think Locke trusts the island to take care of Boone in this scene. Unfortunaely, the island either fials him or ignores him. I think Locke should be more cautious with the island from now on, but he probably won't be.

[Brian]

HodgePodge,

I've been away from the boards for a couple of days and I apologize for my delay in responding to your post. That said, let's go shall we?

I'm thankful you understand the chess analogy. I edited that post I don't know how many times. I realized after I posted it that I had put "Charlie" everywhere I meant to say "Jack." Hopefully it made sense and in reading your response, it did. I used the chess analogy because it was the best analogy I could think of. It's a game of strategy, skill, and determination; pretty much what's going on on the island.

Thanks for clarifying what you meant about the "bloody Boone" scene. I was working off what I thought you meant and your response now makes the earlier make a lot more sense.

Interesting....."phased into invisibility." Makes sense on more than one level. I remember an episode of Star Trek from my childhood where Kirk, Spock, and Bones (I believe) were caught in some sort of "time shift" kind of like what you mentioned. They kept hearing people talking (the whispers?) but couldn't see anyone. Given the fact that TPTB are sci-fi fans, perhaps this "time shift" or "phased into invisibility" concept is quite possible. It would definitely explain why they're hearing whispers but don't see anyone. Then again, perhaps the "others" have the ability to keep themselves hidden from the castaways. Maybe cutting the cable will kill their power source and they'll become visible again; then again, maybe not. (Sorry, tossing a bone to another thread).

Personally, I don't think the "others" had anything to do with the Beechcraft. Yeah, Locke said it had been there for awhile, so why didn't they push it off before? I think Boone's movements in the craft caused it to fall plain and simple. I think the important concept in that scene is why it was Boone and not Locke in the Beechcraft.

So you're taking the road less traveled? That is, the island is trying to get Sayid and Locke working together in order to get to the Black Rock. That would make the hatch a non-issue wouldn't it? Really? So why would TPTB place so much emphasis on the hatch? That's a rhetorical question BTW, for those who still don't understand, re-read this paragraph. It'll make sense, I promise!

Locke has played wonderfully into the dark vs. light, evil vs. good, theme playing out on the island. (Black rock vs. light on in the hatch)? I still don't have any idea how Walt and/or, uhm, Turniphead (I have two kids and I still never would have come up with that one!) will come into play. I think we all believe that Walt is special, we'll find out about Turniphead in the future, hopefully.

Finally, about Locke returning Boone to Jack and then leaving without checking up on his condition. I think Locke was acting "with a sense of combat expediency" in that case. For those who aren't prior military, let me explain. In the military, especially in critical conditions, you place your faith and hope with those who are best trained in each individual area. Locke knew he couldn't help Boone no matter how hard he tried. Hell, 10 minutes before the Beechcraft incident, Locke couldn't even walk! Having regained his ability to walk, Locke took Boone to the only person on the island who could help Boone, that being Jack. We all agree on that. The question is, "Then why did he leave?" Well, getting into an argument with Jack at that time wouldn't do anything to help Locke and Jack's relationship and would most likely have taken Jack's attention away from Boone. Locke needed Jack to focus all of his attention and ability on Boone. The best way to do that is to leave. There will be time for arguments later (as we're now finding out), his first motivation was to help Boone.

Using your analogy, will we see another appearance of Locke's dad? After all, Locke did show up at Boone's funeral. I'm still curious about what he was doing all that time; then again, in "show" time this took place through one night and into the next day.

I still believe that Walt, Locke, Sayid, and for some strange reason, Sawyer are the keys to this mystery. Don't ask me why I put Sawyer in there. There's just something about him. I saw something in him when he realized he'd killed the wrong man at the dumpster that stuck with me. I believe that everyone else is just a supporting cast, so to speak. That said, I probably just listed the next 4 people to disappear from lost! lol That's the way my luck goes.

[Brian]

Dontkillbill,

That's definitely Jack's largest character flaw. He's too quick to jump the gun, so to speak. Locke is the anti-character to Jack in this situation. Locke represents how we would all like to think we would react in these situations and Jack represents how we probably would react.

Something I extrapolated from your second paragraph - Are the "others" really the inner voices of the castaways? Interesting idea. Perhaps it's their subconscious speaking out and only some can here it. Hmm.........

[Brian]

LIW,

:rollin Too funny! Has this become a dating service? I must have missed that post.

That aside, this thread has become really interesting to read lately. Locke seems to bring out the best and/or worst in everyone. I guess that's why everyone, OK, NOT everyone, loves him.

[Brian]

MagiclBlingBling,

I guess you said it better than I did! I absolutely agree with you about why Locke left Boone and went back to the hatch. Makes a lot of sense when you couple your theory with Locke's question at the hatch! That scene at the hatch could almost be seen as a sign of rebellion of Locke's part toward the hatch/island. "I've done everything you've asked me to do!" Of course, only Locke knows what the island's asked of him so it may be more encompassing that we really know.

[Don'tkillbill]

Wow.. What a night. Great except of the commercals... Cut 5 minutes fo commericals and give us a little more.

We have faith versus science, fact versus belief. I think that Jack and Locke will continue to battle but with each other's mind and not the body. Perhaps Dr J will step over that line but their battles will be within the tribe.

The spirit guide versus the scientist. Actually their conflict will compliment each other and together they will lead the tribe.

Reminds me of Island by Peter Benchley with modern descendance of pirates living on the island. That's another day and another post on another board.

[Don'tkillbill]

Wow.. What a night. Great except of the commercials... Cut 5 minutes of commercials and give us a little more.

We have faith versus science, fact versus belief. I think that Jack and Locke will continue to battle but with each other's mind and not the body. Perhaps Dr J will step over that line but their battles will be within the tribe.

The spirit guide versus the scientist. Actually their conflict will compliment each other and together they will lead the tribe.

Reminds me of Island by Peter Benchley with modern descendants of pirates living on the island. That's another day and another post on another board.

[Brian]

Dontkillbill,

Wow..what a night.

That's putting it lightly. I'm avoiding the main discussion thread because it, and the main board in general, seemed to me to turn into a mods nightmare after Exodus ended. I'd prefer the skirt the edges. Yeah, what a night.

Possible Spoiler Info in the next paragraph!!!!





I agree. I think they could have gotten the explanation of the plane crash in (if they ever intended to air it anyway) if they had cut back on the commercials. 5 minutes, as you mentioned, should have done it.






Possible Spoiler info done!








We have faith versus science, fact versus belief.

I've been trying to say that all season! You put it very well. The difference between Jack and Locke isn't in their desire to reach the final goal, it's in how they reach that goal, the thought process, the belief system, basically, what you said! :)

I agree with you that they will continue to battle mentally. We caught a glimpse of that tonight. I swear, you HAVE to watch every minute of this show! I saw a lot of facial expressions from both Locke and Jack tonight that said more than words ever could. You saw it, you know what I mean.

...their conflict will compliment each other...

Light versus dark, good versus evil (don't take that the wrong way, please!). Yes, absolutely, they compliment each other. I'm still pondering where Sayid fits into this. I have my own theories but I'm still fleshing those out.

I once believed that the island leadership would be a partnership between Jack and John. I'm quickly changing that line of thought to make it a triad. How? Not really sure yet. Jack is the realist, he works through what he sees and hears, he reacts. Locke is the visionary, he works through what he believes and feels, he's more proactive than reactive. Sayid, hmmm..... Sayid is possibly the blend of both. He is proactive and reactive through not only what he sees and hears but also through what he feels and believes.

Just my .02. Feel free to jump in! :)

PS - I'm going against the common feeling (that I've read so far) and saying great ep! Yeah, I was disappointed at times, but refreshed at other times. It's all part of the game.

[Brian]

OK, all of that said, I'm going to go back to my chess game analogy. If you've read any of my comments for longer than a week, you'll know what I'm talking about. If you don't, I'm not going back into it, do your homework.

Now, I believe now more than ever that the island is playing a game of chess. I always believed that the "others" and the island were seperate entities and the finale proves that, IMO. In saying that, we now at least have an idea of who the island may be "playing chess" with. I'm still wondering if the whispers could be attributed to the others, meaning, if the "others" are the kidnappers. I just don't know and I'm afraid to speculate. There were mainly "male" voices in the whispers but there was also at least one "female" voice in the whispers. The kidnappers (I'm still not calling them the others) did include at least one woman, wasn't she the one who threw the IED that blew up the raft? If not, then he damn sure looked like a woman.

I think there's a conflict on the island that the castaways have no concept of (OK at this point they must have at least some small concept of it whether they realize it or not) and the island is going to continue to use the castaways in a chess game against the others (that's assuming the others are the kidnappers). This is all speculation at best but I post it here because of my earlier thoughts about how Locke and the others are pawns/pieces of this chess game.

I believe that Locke, while he doesn't covet it, is becoming more and more a spirit guide for the islanders. He even said it tonight. "Faith." I'm trying to keep any religious conotations out of this BTW. Faith doesn't always relate to religion, especially not in the context that Locke used it in the finale.

That said, I don't think the occurences tonight helped Locke in any way. Honestly, I was expecting more once the hatch was uncovered. Then again, faith! :)

The battle lines are being drawn. It's a differentiation between faith and science (I seem to remember reading that somewhere recently! :) ) and Jack is the first to outright start division within the castaways. Yet another defining difference between Locke and Jack. Jack is overt, Locke is covert. Something big is coming..........I just don't know what.

[robbykfunk]

Hello all. I'm new.

I've missed a couple of episodes (I'll have to catch up on re-runs or DVDs) so I'm not up to speed on the time experiments stuff, but, what if the "whispers" are from the "Lostaways" themselves. They might be hearing what they will say in the future. Maybe they are intentionally trying to communicate with themselves in the past.

Anyway, can someone fill me in on the time stuff, or can I find it on one of th other threads?

Thanks.

[ynyswyr]

I'm starting to wonder if Locke is the only one who can't feel death -- because he's already dead; he's not just a Spirit Guide, he's a Spirit, and he knows it. It's why he can walk again, like Lazarus. He's the chess-master (game-player god) who knows there is more to heaven and earth than Jack can dream of in his philosophy. Locke's already behind the veil that separates life from death, and he's there to help the others cross over.

Their lives were all so troubled and unresolved. Maybe all are dead and (like many religions believe) can't transition because they're still caught up (lost) in their lives and problems. So Locke is around to bring them over. The 'Others' then would be the living people in the world we live in now -- a post-911 island of ever-present nameless fear -- which is why they take the children, the innocents, who still need to go on living.

Just wondering...

[Brian]

Oh boy, here we go with the purgatory thoughts again. Haven't we just about flogged this horse for the last time? TPTB have stated outright that the castaways ARE NOT IN PURGATORY. :)

That would be the definition of what you were describing, ynyswyr. That place between life and death where issues are worked out blah, blah, blah. It's an interesting idea, but it's been discounted by TPTB so we've pretty much given up on it.

That said, that doesn't mean it's not some variation. After last night, I don't know what to think anymore!

[Don'tkillbill]

I'm pretty confident they are all alive.

I do believe that they are on the island because they they have miserable lives or need a life altering event.

Locke being carried to seat unable to reach a dropped pamphlet versus a guy playing with TNT.

All the characters are being healed by the Island.

The role of the others if those hillbilly boaters were the others. The security system, the island. Hmm I figure it will take 2 more years to tell that story maybe 3. Hope we get that long!

[Brian]

Dontkillbill,

I'm pretty confident they are all alive.

Yeah, me too. I just haven't seen enought to counter that. If I turn out to be wrong on this, it would be unexpected, by me that is.

I do believe that they are on the islandbecause they...need a life altering event.

I'll agree with that, I mean, they certainly got one. Given that, and Locke telling Jack that the island brought them there, it makes you wonder how the island knew they each needed a life altering event. Perhaps Locke said it best, Faith.

Don't even get me started on the kidnappers. It will take a hell of a lot of convincing before I believe those are the "others." Since I'm so strongly against it, it means they probably are the others. That's the way my luck has run this season.

Hmm I figure it will take 2 more years to tell that story maybe 3. Hope we get that long!

Absolutely! There's enough gray area that's been introduced to fill at least one more season, and most likley more!

[Zoriah Bastin]

I believe there is another conflict here, which sort of ties in with the faith vs science one - which is fate/predestiny vs free will.

Locke's acceptance of Boone's death as a sacrifice the island demanded, and his belief that they all have a destiny and a purpose for being there is probably in direct opposition to Jack's feelings on the subject. Jack seems to be an advocate of free will, and the right to individual self determination, for carving out his own path in life, and not following some nebulous 'other's' grand design.

[Brian]

Zoriah Bastin,

I believe there is another conflict here....Locke's acceptance of Boone's death as a sacrifice the island demanded, and his belief that they all have a destiny and a purpose for being there is probably in direct opposition to Jack's feelings on the subject.

Nah, it isn't "probably" in direct opposition, it IS in direct opposition. That's the tension point between Jack and Locke. Their belief systems contradict each other. That's why there's so much tension between the two.

Jack seems to be an advocate of free will...and not following some nebulous 'other's' grand design.

Absolutely. I'm going to hope for the best here and assume (almost always a mistake) that you aren't referring to the "others" when you say "other's." I'm assuming you're making a differentiation between the "others" and the simple fact that Jack refuses to fall into the plan of someone/something outside of his control. I think I've read you correctly. That said, I agree.

Again, everything you've said defines the conflict between Locke and Jack. It really is a conflict between faith and free will, as you mentioned. Nice comments. Thanks.

[Zoriah Bastin]

Hehe, thanks, and yes I was definitely not referring to the Others on the show, you were right in your assessment.

[Brian]

...you were right in your assessment.

Hmm, imagine that, I finally got something right. I'm going to frame this thread for later proof! :)

[Brian]

So this is working again?

[Brian]

? Just checking

[LostInWilderness]

bump

[lilbrat77]

It makes sense. He has that whole zen thing going on. In Walkabout, he gets pretty pissed at his boss (what an asshole), the walkabout guy, and even Helen (slamming the phone down on the nightstand), but on the island he's pretty cool like when Kate, Jack and him heard the monster, he calmly stops and even heads toward it. And in Walkabout when everyone talks about the food and he tosses the knife and it hits the seat next to Sawyer's head, he nonchalantly says "We hunt." like its no big deal hunting a 250 pound she- boar or even a 100-150 pound piglet.

[LostInWilderness]

Welcome to Lost-TV lilbrat77. Please read the welcome forum and the posting guidelines and have fun. Thanks for bumping one of my favorite threads. It kind of died once everyone bought into the idea, but it's still a great thread.

[Brian]

It kind of died once everyone bought into the idea, but it's still a great thread.
Yes it is and that's why I've linked to it twice now! :)

[LostInWilderness]

Bumping for newbies. And Homer. ;) There's a Locke thread in T&S that may generate some interest.

[Susan B Anthony]

I have heard this thread referenced on several other posts, but just now read through it. I'm sorry I didn't find this board till after the weighty discussion took place. :\ Cool ideas.

I must admit, I avoid the general discussion boards because I don't like the cacaphony of voices. I prefer this forum because of just this kind of thread. Great indepth discussions and real examination of ideas. Looking forward to getting in on more of it this season.

[Brian]

SBA,

It really is a good thread. I like this one along with Jack and Locke and the hatch (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm2.showMess age?topicID=3240.topic), in GD, which seems to have submarined itself at the outset of S2. It's rather lengthy if you haven't read it but if you have a few moments, OK, about an hour or more, then it's a good read. If anyone reads through that thread completely, you'll understand why I consider Hodge, LIW, and myself as the "trifecta" when it comes to discussing Locke. Granted, that thread was procreated during the off-season and things have obviously changed. There's no longer, in my eyes, a "trifecta" when it comes to Locke discussions. This forum proves that and I wish every one of you had been here earlier! My understanding of Locke and everything about him can only grow with new thoughts and ideas. LIW and Hodge are certainly good avenues for those but the newer influences are wonderful! :)

Oh, and for what it's worth, I still think Locke is a Spirit Guide regardless of how he's portrayed in each episode!

[LostInWilderness]

The Spirit Guide is back. I hope he's back for good.

[boonian androphile]

It's a good start for the return of the spirit guide. The return of the rescuer is probably next. It's a shame though that the discovery of the imploded hatch didnt occur in 2005.:rolleyez:

[LostInWilderness]

Yeah, the return of the Spirit Guide and the destuction of the hatch are a full year late.

[LostInWilderness]

I loved how they TPTB validated this theory tonight. From the Spirit Quest on the island to the sweat lodge. I also love that Locke mistook Hurley for a bear. I can see that.

So Homer, tell me how saving Eko's life, after being directed by a Spirit Quest, makes Locke a boob.

[Homer Noodleman]

He's not 100% a boob, just 99.9% a boob. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Don't you guys remember where Locke following his dreams took him last time? What makes you think this time will be any different.

Did the speech by the cop, where he said , "Yea Locke, we figured you to be a humongous sucker" really bode well for Locke, especially when you consider is happy little commune family were a bunch of drug dealers that were ok with the idea of Locke killing the cop?

[LostInWilderness]

You have to differentiate Spirit Guide Locke from pre-island Locke and button-pushing, island-boob Locke. If you won't acknowledge that difference, it says more about you than Locke. No other character could have saved Eko from the bear. It took Spirit Guide Locke to save him.

[Homer Noodleman]

You need to remember his last two seasons on the island. His Spirit Guide schtick during Season One led to his actions during Season Two.

[boonian androphile]

Locke blunders about no matter what. But he is far more interesting when not watching the spin dry cycle or sudsing up the sink. I dont care if he deludes himself, as long as he does so above the ground. When he was below ground, he was boring. Let him be fooled by the island or whoever. Let him lead the gullible to their deaths. But do so within the shadows of jungle noises.

[LostInWilderness]

You need to remember his last two seasons on the island. His Spirit Guide schtick during Season One led to his actions during Season Two.
I included those aspects of Locke in my description. But Spirit Guide Locke saved Eko, saved Jack, helped Claire, Sawyer, Sun, Hurley, Walt, etc., and fed boar to the survivors. Locke is a great character because there are two distinct aspects to him. The Spirit Guide aspect rocks.

[rm4610]

Locke blunders about no matter what. But he is far more interesting when not watching the spin dry cycle or sudsing up the sink. I dont care if he deludes himself, as long as he does so above the ground. When he was below ground, he was boring. Let him be fooled by the island or whoever. Let him lead the gullible to their deaths. But do so within the shadows of jungle noises.
I didn't see the Locke of season 1 as blundering around. Misguided, yes. Blundering, no. He needed to be out of that hatch environment in order to regain the pride and self awareness he had in Season 1. In Season 2, the cubicle of his pre-island life was substituted with the hatch, just making him another part of nothingness. He made mistakes in Season 1, but he did so with the conviction that he was on the right path and would find truth and "the meaning of existence". I'm looking forward to Locke rediscovering that side of himself. Much more interesting than dishpan hands.

I included those aspects of Locke in my description. But Spirit Guide Locke saved Eko, saved Jack, helped Claire, Sawyer, Sun, Hurley, Walt, etc., and fed boar to the survivors. Locke is a great character because there are two distinct aspects to him. The Spirit Guide aspect rocks.
Spirit Guide Locke was the most interesting and intricate character for me in Season 1. We didn't know what to expect from him. We didn't know if his character was good or bad. We couldn't predict his movements. He saw himself as a leader, but as a leader that was willing to not be in the limelight. Spirit Guide Locke was worth discussing. (where as dishwasher John had nothing of importance to contribute)

[boonian androphile]

Perhaps blundering is the wrong word, at least up to Deus Ex Machina. Although I would equate his actions in Hearts and Minds with quite close to blundering. That was where he carried his island mission just a little too far. Earlier than that, he knew what was doing, but the reasons behind his actions were mysterious, but Locke interpreted mysterious in a positive light: We now know that he felt included in something and he was deriving good results. Misguided works better perhaps in the early stages, because he forfeited a bit of healthy skepticism about his actions, about his purpose, about his relationship with the island. Believe me, I prefer this complex, jungle happy Locke over the travesty that would follow in season 2. Season 3 looks as though the old Locke has returned, the old confident and persuasive Locke, the likely to be misguided and blundering Locke. And I say excellent to all that.

[Brian]

You know he'll find a way, he always does.

That said, it was great to see Locke getting back to his roots, so to speak. I'll have to watch the epi again before commenting more, I missed parts of it last night.

[Hodgepodge]

Not sure this was the thread. But I remember LIW, Leuthen and I discussing whether Locke has received these "havids" off island. I remember quoting this from the Walkabout episode. "...This is destiny. This is destiny. This is my destiny. (yelling) I'm supposed to do this, dammit. Don't tell me what I can't do. Don't tell me what I can't. . ."

With the scene of the sweat lodge both pre-crash and post-crash, is there a possibility Locke saw himself out of that wheelchair after his trip to Australia? We now know these "havids" aren't a precise GPS. They can be interpreted in different ways. Did he see the crash and everything else, but took the wrong meaning. Or, was him getting out of that wheelchair the overriding force (bloody Boone)? Where do you guys stand?

[LostInWilderness]

I wonder if Locke ever really had a Spirit Quest in the sweat lodge, or anywhere else. I bet he tried.

[Brian]

Not sure this was the thread. But I remember LIW, Leuthen and I discussing whether Locke has received these "havids" off island.

I think that was in the Jack, Locke, and the hatch (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7021) thread. Still one of my top 3 favorite threads on this forum. We covered a hell of a lot of ground in that thread.

I wonder if Locke ever really had a Spirit Quest in the sweat lodge, or anywhere else. I bet he tried.

Oh, I bet he did as well.

[Hodgepodge]

I wonder if Locke ever really had a Spirit Quest in the sweat lodge, or anywhere else. I bet he tried.So you still feel the beginning of these Locke aberrations, manifestations, "havids" began on Craphole Island?

[sgtdraino]

So you still feel the beginning of these Locke aberrations, manifestations, "havids" began on Craphole Island?

Well, I don't think we yet have any solid evidence that they began before. Yes, Locke sounds very definite when, in Australia, he says "This is my destiny!" But nothing solid yet.

And no, I haven't forgotten about our HAVID project. Just been too friggin busy, dangit! Push comes to shove, I should have a significant amount of down time the week of Thanksgiving.

[Brian]

So you still feel the beginning of these Locke aberrations, manifestations, "havids" began on Craphole Island?

So far, I think they've only come to him since the crash. Another thing, these bloody Boone references and the wheelchair are all coupled in some way.

The last time we saw Boone like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/Leuthen2/normal_instructions-cap-218.jpg

was here (S1E19 Deus Ex Machina):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/Leuthen2/normal_deux084.jpg

and Locke was in the same situation then:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/Leuthen2/normal_deux089.jpg

Luckily, S3E3 didn't end with the same results as we had in S1E19:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/Leuthen2/normal_deux637.jpg

It's possible that this may signify Locke coming full circle, so to speak. The last time we saw Locke with bloody Boone, he was well on his way spiraling into the hatch. He emerges from this new bloody Boone havid, reborn. At least I'd like to think so anyway. I agree with everyone else though, it's far to early to say for certain.

After the first bloody Boone havid, Locke pours all his faith into the hatch, incorrectly in my opinion, and after this havid he puts his faith back into the Island/Mr. Eko. I think you have a point Hodge, I think he misunderstood the first one.

Just a thought.

[Hodgepodge]

...And no, I haven't forgotten about our HAVID project. Just been too friggin busy, dangit! Push comes to shove, I should have a significant amount of down time the week of Thanksgiving.Oh, you're not the only one tardy SgtDraino. I think that's a good idea, getting together during the holiday hiatus.

I see what you're saying Leuthen. It makes perfect sense. Full circle! :Cheers:

[sgtdraino]

The last time we saw Locke with bloody Boone, he was well on his way spiraling into the hatch.

Just one quibble: It continues to grate on my nerves whenever people talk about Locke losing his way when he started pushing the button.

REMEMBER people, we might not have liked it when Locke was stuck down there, but that was the important work that he was supposed to be doing. He didn't lose his faith and his way until he decided to STOP pushing the button.

[Brian]

Not to mention he got a lot of dishes clean. ;)

Sorry, but from the moment Desmond left the hatch after the computer failed until the hatch imploded was rather disappointing as far as Locke is concerned.

Even TPTB must not put much stock into what he was doing down there because now even the Blast Door Map is gone. Why pin Locke underneath the Blast Door, have him see the map, spend part of an episode trying to re-create it, only to have it vaporized in the implosion?

[clayseason1]

Why pin Locke underneath the Blast Door, have him see the map, spend part of an episode trying to re-create it, only to have it vaporized in the implosion?
So Jack, Kate and Sawyer could find the map amid the pneumatic tubes and someone (maybe Sawyer?) pocketed it. I think it will come back into play later on.

[Susan B Anthony]

Why pin Locke underneath the Blast Door, have him see the map, spend part of an episode trying to re-create it, only to have it vaporized in the implosion?

Surely Desmond had it memorized after 3 years of watching Kelvin work on it.

[Hodgepodge]

...REMEMBER people, we might not have liked it when Locke was stuck down there, but that was the important work that he was supposed to be doing. He didn't lose his faith and his way until he decided to STOP pushing the button.You're right SgtDraino! Locke was doing important work down in that hatch. I just hated he wasted a season doing it.

Question! Have we looked into who the button pushing was important too? Was Locke and Eko's havids sent by "Smokey", the island, or the "Others"?