Does anyone think Locke is evil? [Archive]

wolfdemondx08

11-18-04, 09:55 PM

I don't think he's evil. I think he is just trying to help everyone in a different way than we see as helping.

Well, I'm here to state my beliefs:

Giving the knife to Sayid: Maybe he did that so Sayid would get himself to NOT torture Sawyer. Well that didn't work out to well did it? Of maybe he gave Sayid the knife because he knew what was going to happen, and he wanted Sayid to go map out the island because he knew how well-trained Sayid is.

The hit to Sayid's head: Maybe it WAS Sawyer and Locke actually watched it happen from the jungle and made it seem like he was just stating a 'could have' statement.

Handing Walt a knife: Walt asked for Locke to teach him how to throw one. It doesn't necessarily mean that he GAVE the knife to Walt to KEEP. But if it be the case on keeping the knife, maybe he knew something might try to attack Walt and he wanted Walt to learn some defense so a boar or 'the creature' doesn't kill him.

And if we all remember, he did say he looked into the eye of the island, which is another way of saying 'I know what is going to happen.'

Maybe he is helping those who need it, maybe he does as a matter of fact knows what will happen. With all the people he's helped or dealt with or tried to help, he probably saw two possible futures:

One in which what would happen if they DIDN'T change their mind (EX: If Charlie still had his drugs) and one in which what would happen if they LISTENED to him when he tried to/did help.

But I can't say, I don't have any suspicions. I'm still have a lot of unanswered questions:

How did he know where Jack was when he (Jack) was close to death?

How did he survive an attack by 'the creature'?

How did he know Charlie had drugs when Charlie did a good job on keeping it secret from everyone?

How did he know about Jack and his struggles when Jack wasn't telling anyone? (In a way he explained he knew, but with different words so it didn't seem obvious at all)

How does he know everything he knows when (I doubt) he hasn't ever experienced anything like it before?

How does he find everything he does? (EX: The golf clubs, Charlie's guitar, etc)

And what's with his smile at the end of every episode and that weird sort of not really half wink he does? (EX: when he found the golf clubs and told Hurley, when he told Mike that he should be the one to bring Vincent back to Walt, etc)

And how does his advice he gives (supposedly without meaning to) always mean something that fits perfectly with the person he told it to and how it sinks so deep into them? (EX: The moth and Charlie, leadership and Jack)

Well, that's my speech I guess you can say..

~Wolf~

ennui

11-18-04, 11:49 PM

How did he know Charlie had drugs when Charlie did a good job on keeping it secret from everyone?

He saw them in Charlie's hand when Charlie was standing on the beehive.

How does he know everything he knows when (I doubt) he hasn't ever experienced anything like it before?

He's well read, and probably a bit of a faker or nuts (IMHO, don't yell at me please). Seemingly vast knowledge on a subject is something you see a lot in kids about eight years old- they play at being experts after having learning a few facts or watching the Discovery Chanel. It's not such a hard thing to do, but adults don't bother and (some of them) aren't as boastful as most eight year olds.

And how does his advice he gives (supposedly without meaning to) always mean something that fits perfectly with the person he told it to and how it sinks so deep into them? (EX: The moth and Charlie, leadership and Jack)

Locke's insightful, and also knows the exact location of the island's only metaphor tree... :D

Bigbadbill

11-19-04, 01:27 AM

Locke's passed indicates an accident or a trauma from the past, perhaps he to was addicted to pain killer , not a big step if he had a major trauma in his life. He'd know the signs.

Locke isn't evil he just likes walking the jungle at night with sharp knives:p

It will be interesting to see what Lockes relationship is with the Island.

ScapeBabe

11-19-04, 05:48 AM

I've always been of the mind that Locke is the devil figure, or the serpent in the garden. I'm not saying he's necessarily evil, but he sure seems to have a knack for persuading (never forcing) people into seeing things his way, or getting them to jump to the conclusion he wants. And he's very, very into ritualistic engagement (I'll let you ask for the stash 3 times...), as well as pacts, ie one must make a pact with the island in order for it to give you what you want. By my perception, the devil (for the record, I don't believe in the devil, I'm looking at this from a literary perspective) constantly takes advantage of the free will of man, and that seems to be exactly what Locke is doing.

wolfdemondx08

11-19-04, 07:49 PM

He saw them in Charlie's hand when Charlie was standing on the beehive.

Oh I missed that part because my tape started 15 minutes after it was supposed to for that episode.

Chance Gardener

11-19-04, 08:12 PM

...and also knows the exact location of the island's only metaphor tree...

Heh heh heh, good one that.

ennui

11-20-04, 12:13 AM

^It's from the Lost Recaps on Television Without Pity, for the episode The Moth. If you haven't read them yet, do so now- they're hysterical.

ColLocke

11-20-04, 01:54 AM

I too see Locke as something of a serpent in the garden, but not just that. I think that he gave Walt the knife because he knew something from his reading: the predator always goes after the sick, the weak, and the young.

That is, the predator always goes after Charlie, Claire, and Walt. He got Charlie off the drugs so that his mind would be sharper and he would no longer be weak, so he could defend himself. He's teaching Walt how to throw knives so that he can defend himself too.

Now Claire. Claire and Locke's relationship is interesting, because the pair have barely said more than two words to each other. I don't know how Locke is going to help Claire; maybe he won't, maybe I'm wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. Maybe he'll help Hurley defend himself, or Michael, or Boone, or Shannon. I dunno.

azteclady

11-21-04, 12:19 AM

Replying mostly to wolfdemondx 08:

I don't think Locke is evil.

Locke gave the knife to Saeed after 'debunking' Sawyer's alibi, with the caveat "in case you need it" or some such. The quotation marks in the debunking come from the fact that Sawyer would have had to both turn the antenna on *and* fire the rocket at the same time, for the transceiver to work. No way Sawyer would have been able to do both within seconds and hit Saeed minutes later - and no way Saeed wouldn't think of that, no matter how much he dislikes Sawyer. Which still means that *someone* hit Saeed, and that both Locke and Saeed at that point think that the someone in case must be one of the 46 plane crash survivors. It makes sense then for Saeed to be prepared.

Giving the knife to Walt: I certainly hope that Locke was only showing the knife to Walt and not giving it to the kid. Even showing Walt the rudiments of knife throwing *without the express permission* of the kid's father would be a gross mistake on Locke's part. A guy who 'knows what's going to happen' has to know that ignoring a parent's right to make decisions which affect their kids' lives is a HUGE mistake. And if Locke is aware of the others at all, he has to have noticed that Michael doesn't like him and doesn't want Walt to be around him. Ignoring Michael's stated or implicit wishes that Walt keeps his distance from Locke is *not* smart.

As for seeing "into the eye of the island," it could also mean that Locke is insane. That, by the way, gets my vote. Not all insane people froth at the mouth and eat human liver with Chianti while listening to operas *shrug* There are many levels of mental instability.

How did Locke know that Jack was close to death when Jack was hanging from those vines? Well, Jack had been running around in the jungle yelling at his hallucination of his father (following his 'white rabbit'). It's not out of the realm of possibilities that Locke, who was supposedly looking for water sources, heard and followed the noise.

How did Locke survive 'an attack by the monster'? Ah, well :D There are a few threads on this, but a short version would be: when Locke froze upon seeing whatever it was he saw, that animal didn't 'see' Locke - either because it didn't perceive Locke as a threat, or because it has poor eyesight, or it only 'sees' movement, etc. So, 'it' went its merry way, and Locke scavenged the boar carcass that it had killed - probably stepping over it, since there's a definite piggie squeak right before Locke looks all mystical.

In another thread, a while back, pinnerman said that Locke's 'a legend in his own mind' and I must concur. I don't think Locke 'knows' anything, but he feels he knows *and* he likes being all mystical and cool. Considering the abuse he suffered at his boss's hands in the flashbacks, one can definitely sympathize with that need. That doesn't mean he's right though.

Beto
opinionated
member of the welcoming committee
self-appointed member of the LOST forum fund-raising committee (become an ezsuporter - donate)
member of STOP - Society to Oust Purgatory (theories)

*out of breath*

ennui

11-21-04, 12:27 AM

So, 'it' went its merry way...

You think Charlie is the monster!

Sorry, that was a really bad joke. I'll show myself out.

Lost at sea

11-22-04, 11:01 AM

I think when the group vs group plot comes to the boiling point he will be the leader of the good group and jack will be the leader of the bad group.

ennui

11-22-04, 12:56 PM

I think when the group vs group plot comes to the boiling point he will be the leader of the good group and jack will be the leader of the bad group.

Oh, come on. Jack, leader of the bad group? Perfect doctor boy? I think not.

I don't think Locke will lead a group- I think he will stay with Jack's group, and Sayid will lead the beach group. But then again, if Locke is the Flagg character, he should be the one who leads the bad (beach) group.

Lost at sea

11-23-04, 09:28 AM

ennui

11-23-04, 02:08 PM

Flawed? Yes. But I don't buy that Jack will go from hero to antagonist. I guess anything's possible, though...

zhenar

11-24-04, 11:21 PM

I think Locke is being converted to evil without knowing it. The best evil characters are evil while thinking they're "doing the right thing".

Spirit Shards

11-28-04, 05:55 PM

I think that Locke might have the illness that Danielle was talking about. Because she talked like it was a behavioral type sickness and not so much a coughing-hacking type. I think he's kind of been taken over by the island and is now determined to stay there and protect it. So yeah, I think he's kind of evil, but not evil in the stereotypical villain sense.

DOMesticatedSag

11-30-04, 11:28 PM

good point, it's possible!

Bigbadbill

12-02-04, 11:26 PM

Nope not me, not evil maybe bad from time to time but not evil. He might, just might skin Ethan in the next episode and then tan the hide, just like he was doing last night with the boar. He has found his niché and destiny.

After yesterday's show and the previews for next week I'm even more solid that Locke is a good guy. I think the others will turn out to be another tribe of evil people and our survivors will have to choose between black and white.. Good and evil.

I love the black and white eyes in dream sequence I think its the duality on man. Good and evil are a choice and Locke will prove to be a good guy but as all humans he certainly will have dark side. For those starving hockey fans out there he's the white teams enforcer.

Later

ennui

12-04-04, 03:56 PM

{Rodd and Todd] "Do you think he's evil?"
"I don't know. He smells evil. Should
we tell Daddy?"
"No, let's poke him some more."
[/Rodd and Todd]

Sorry, it just popped into my head. I had to do it.

Feldspar

12-07-04, 01:21 AM

I think Locke is somewhere in between.

I'm not sure what level of spoilers are allowed here now after a given episode has been shown on the air but what we saw in 'Raised by Another' had strong echoes from the pilot where Locke explains Backgammon to Walt. One side white, the other side black.

I think there is an 'evil' presence on the island and I think Locke is aware of it. Sayid knows its there from his conversation with Danielle but I think Locke 'knows' what it is. His role thus far seems to have been more of someone who is preparing the others for what is coming. His conversation with Jack. His assistance of Charlie. The Charlie episode alone really highlighted the benevolent side of Locke.

LSim763

12-09-04, 10:00 PM

Hmm... I really really really do not want Locke to be evil (because he is my favorite character at this point), but I do agree that it is entirely within the realm of possibility. He just knows so much. That last episode I was just in suspense (when he and Boone were alone), as if any second I'm waiting for him to show an evil side or something.

Lurch762

12-11-04, 01:02 AM

immortal elf girl

12-11-04, 05:51 AM

Im sort of divided on this issue. He helped Charlie over come his drugs, so he seems like a cool guy. But he gave Saiad the knife to hurt Sawayer, when he had no idea who had hit him. And then on this last episode, Jack was all ready to go and start hunting Ethan and everyone, while Locke wanted to go and gather supplies -which in reality could be a good idea- but Ethan would have 2 struggling people, so they wouldnt be going all that fast. And since Locke is old, it will take him forever to gather the supplies. So, Im divided, but leaning slightly to evil. But thats just me.

~Megan

Lanna Lioness

12-11-04, 07:38 PM

I'm torn as well. He seems liek a nice guy, but then you get these flashes where he seems scarydemon! bad-guy.

Jillian

12-17-04, 06:00 PM

Locke isn't evil, and I don't necessarily think he consciously "knows" anything. I see him as a Walter Mitty character. He's been pushed around, had to have help/permission from others. He has wanted to be independent/powerful for we don't know how long, and now here he is - the most capable survivor, comfortable with a physical challenge that makes a walkabout pale in comparison. People look up to him for their needs. I think he is "personifying" his fantasy to the island - which seems to have a habit of making people's thoughts come true. In short, Locke doesn't know anything - he's wishing for it.

{Sorry, I don't know how to quote another post as prettily as y'all do, this will have to do. The above is from Lurch762.}

IMO, all of his ideas of how to be and what to do come from his fantasies, namely books and movies. He strikes me as the sort who read a lot of adventure-type books, a lot of Jack London, Tolkien, Stephen King's Dark Tower series, and the like. So while he has no practical experience, he does what he thinks the hero/hunter would do (like the issue with Charlie's drugs, that sounds like something he read in a book). But because he has little or no real world experience, he's bound to get things right sometimes and wrong sometimes. Not everything will work out like he thinks it will. I have a lot of compassion for Locke. He wants to be this hero/hunter so bad, and now he has his chance and he's letting everyone think that he is that person, but at the same time is desperately trying to learn/practice as fast as he can and get his skills up before anyone catches on (practicing throwing the knife at the tree). His line to Jack, "You be the doctor, let me be the hunter", once you know his backstory, rings so sad-- "Please let be the Hunter, please?"

[/quote] I think there is an 'evil' presence on the island and I think Locke is aware of it.[/quote] (From Feldspar)

This makes sense too, if Locke is seeing all this as being like one of his adventure stories, he would be expecting there to be an evil force to fight, like in his books. And since he was the beneficiary of such a great good, (the end of his paralysis and the beginning of the life he always wanted) he would surely expect there to be an equally great evil somewhere in this "adventure tale".

kunoichi

12-17-04, 06:30 PM

Wow. Great analysis, Jillian. However, I think he might have had experience in the wild in the years before the incident that paralyzed his legs. He knows too much to have simply gotten it from books. But his viewpoint and values, now, those could be stuck in fantasy-land.

dagriff

01-12-05, 09:34 PM

There is a theory that the whole show is Locke's fantasy. Hence his prescience, ability to walk, and role as hero/mentor/redeemer/provider. That all of these flashbacks (except for his own) are his own convoluted "backstories" of his fellow passengers who are currently sitting safely next to him in the plane. The plane actually hasn't crashed, nor has anyone been stranded. It makes sense when coupled with Locke's flashbacks (fantasies, military obsession, delusions of grandeur, and seeming inability to grasp reality - i.e. when he asked the 900 girl to go to Australia with him.) In much the same way as St. Elsewhere ended as the invention of an autistic boy looking at a hospital in a snow globe, the island of LOST is an invention/dream of a disabled man with an inferiority complex and a Manhattan sized chip on his shoulder during an overseas flight.

azteclady

01-12-05, 10:55 PM

If the whole show is in any one character's head, I'll scream really loud.

With that said, I have to quote pinnerman. "[Locke is a] legend in his own mind."

As far as prior practical experience vs. book knowledge, I'd say that it depends a lot on the books and on how obssessed Locke's been on the survivalist deal. It is possible to glean a great deal of knowledge from books, and then go on to apply it to everyday life.

Beto

Sarahs Monkey

01-13-05, 01:28 AM

Locke isn't either yet...

I think the whole experience with Boone was an experiment. His quote "So that's what it made you see." made me feel like he set Boone up to see the "monster" to see what would happen.

Right now, Locke is exploring like the rest of them, he just has a supreme confidence that makes him seem like he knows what he's doing.

The interesting story was Jack's apparent jealousy of Locke. Will Locke rise to power and Jack will become evil with jealousy or will Locke rise to power and begin to view Jack as his nemesis, thus making Locke delusionally evil?

mystjade

01-13-05, 03:15 AM

Just a theory but could Locke possibly be infected by the illness that roussou was spoke of earlier?
This still doesn’t explain why he could walk, in less that’s some sort of side effect. Perhaps he passed it on to boone tonight. It does explain why he has been so secretive/debatably evil, and why he seems to know so much about the island.

azteclady

01-13-05, 02:45 PM

Welcome, mystjade!

I would encourage you to read as much as you can of older threads in all the forums - there are several really interesting discussions on the many aspects of Locke's character, some here, some in General Discussions and Theories and Speculations.

A good place to start is always with the awesome drabauer's LOST Theories Index (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sage?topicID=434.topic).

Enjoy!

Beto

Matthew is a fox

01-13-05, 06:19 PM

JJ is going to spice things up, I guarantee it. Everyone, especially all the chicks, need to get over Jack as the hero/hot doctor and look at the big picture. He isn't the perfect doctor "St. Jack" "Hero" everyone thinks he is.

Whoever said Jack was perfect? Just because you don't like Jack doesn't mean others cant. And if you were to visit Jacks forum, you would see there are more anti than pro Jack fans. I absolutely hate comments like this. Is it that hard for people to think before they speak?

But back to Locke (this is his forum)- I don't think he is evil or slowly turning into evil. I like the mysteries his character brings to the show and as far as him being a leader, I don't see that happening in the future.

shieldmaiden

01-13-05, 10:57 PM

Newbie here...

Locke reminds me of Aslan, the lion/Christ figure in C.S. Lewis's Chronicles of Narnia--he may be good and trustworthy, but he's not entirely safe. In one of the Narnia books (Voyage of the Dawn Treader, I think), one of the child characters turns into a dragon and is "cured" when Aslan tears off the dragon skin with his claws--a painful but necessary procedure, akin to Locke's treatment of Boone, perhaps.

I like Locke--he's my favorite character on the show--but I'm not 100% sold on him...yet...though I do find him to be very handsome and magnetic...'course I'm attracted to the rugged survivalist type anyway... :)

I have a theory about why Locke knows so much about survival even though he's apparently never been in the military: maybe he joined a militia group instead. We found out in yesterday's episode that he was in the Boy Scouts system but that he was not one of the "popular" kids; maybe he found a home of sorts in a fringe group like a militia. That would explain his survivalist bent/knowledge/experience. It also helps explain his somewhat odd (odd to me, anyway) interactions with Michael & Walt (the main black characters) and Sayid (the Iraqi)--I know there are militia/survivalist groups out there that are racist. Plus being in a militia (especially a racist one) isn't exactly the kind of thing you'd want on your resume or job application....

I'm glad to have found other Locke Lovers! :)

Hodgepodge

01-13-05, 11:36 PM

I've said since Pt. 2 of the Pilot, that when Locke came face-to-face with, I like to call it, "the thing in the woods", he somehow became one with the island. He says, "I've looked in the eye of the island, and its beautiful." He tells Charlie, in The Moth, "the island will give you something, if you give it something in return." When Jack disappears in White Rabbit, he tells everyone, "I'll find him, I know where to look." And in tonights episode, he allows Boone to go on a trip of discovery, where now he may be able to go on with his life. In the next episode, Special, watch him teach Michael a lesson about parenting.

No, Locke isn't evil, like I've said in many posts, he's possessed with the island. He's the only one of our survivors that doesn't want to go home.

Matthew is a fox

01-14-05, 01:25 AM

Very nice Hodgepodge :D I think you are a wonderful writer/analysis when it comes to this show. I enjoy reading your posts every time :)

Bigbadbill

01-14-05, 01:38 AM

Hodgepodge great post. I liken Locke to a coach or mentor. He mentored Jack as the reluctant leader, Charlie, Boone and next week he has a run in with Micheal over Walt. He is preparing them for something. Any thoughts on the compass comment? I think he knew something was up and enought to get around with out it.

Michealangelo and the statue of David amazing analogy for a man in a wheel chair just wishing to go live in the wilderness and be one with nature.

Locke is far from perfect but futher from evil.

Kyrian Windstarr

01-14-05, 09:28 PM

Hello All,

I'm new here but am quite glad there is a place to discuss LOST at.

Anyway, I have really enjoyed reading everyone's opinion on Locke and can see many interesting insights to the character. By far, he is the most fascinating character on the show for me and I honestly can't get enough of him.

As far as whether he is evil or not, I would tend to say no. However, that would be a shaky no at best since there is much mystery to him and his motivations.

I'm not entirely prepared to assume that he has a mystical connection to the island (or the inhabitants on it). IMHO, I think he is simply incredibly observant, not afraid to manipulate people to his own ends and capable of predicting outcomes much like a chess player sees the board several moves ahead.

An eternal optimist, I think he is actually helping people to prepare them for what he assumes to be a very long stay on the island. He seems to feel that they are the most dangerous predators on the island and ultimately will begin to turn on one another or themselves due to drugs, denial, jealousy, lack of self-confidence, fear, etc. His methods are extreme but so is the situation and dangers to say the least.

Saying all of this, I'm still not completely set on any of this. The series is still fairly young and this character in particular has a lot hidden away that could easily go in almost any direction (though I hope the dream sequence isn't where the writers are intending to go).

Kyrian

Hodgepodge

01-14-05, 10:57 PM

Matthew is a fox says:
Very nice Hodgepodge I think you are a wonderful writer/analysis when it comes to this show. I enjoy reading your posts every time
Bigbadbill says:
Hodgepodge great post...
Thank you both very much!:)

Matthew is a fox

01-15-05, 05:19 AM

You're welcome :D

No Quarter

01-16-05, 10:54 PM

Hello all. First time here. I got the first 11 Lost episodes from a friend on DivX about 3 weeks ago but I saw them just 3 days ago. All 11 and I downloaded 12 and 13 today. I think it is one of the best thriller series since the first few season of X-Files. Anyway, about Locke...

I think that this guy is the most interesting character so far exactly because you cannot figure him out. All his actions so far are generally 'good' as he always helps, though in controversial ways, all the characters.

Some facts about Locke:

1) He is very well studied in hunting, surviving, and general wilderness lore. He has some very little experience (since he was a boy scout or something way back) but I think it is clear that he knows everything theoretical, not practical. Evidence of this is that he knows to read the signs of boars, but he surprised and injured in his first encounter with one. I think that was intentional to show his lack of experience. However due to his theoretical knowledge he is able to adapt and learn very quickly. It is only normal for a 'geek' such as he with no personal life, and his obsession with wilderness to have completely master the theoretical aspects of the hunter. In the flashback scene he tells the trip manager that he (Locke) knows much more than him (the manager).

2) He is obviously faking it to some degree, because he knows that he has no experience but his confidence is projected in a way that he has convinced everyone that he REALLY knows his stuff. When he told the truth to Boone, Boone was 'yeah right' thinking that Locke was probably an ex Navy-Seals type of guy.

3) This confidence comes from the fact that he is probably for the first time in his life important to other people. And that makes him having nothing to lose. Before the island he was nobody. Now he is seen by others as their best chance of surviving this island. And Locke himself finally LIVES! He was dead before the island. So even if actually really dying here it still probably much better than the state he was before in the real world and that is why he knows he has nothing to lose, and that is why he is so confident. He has nothing to lose.

I think all of the above can be accepted as facts. Now my view on the character:

Though this could easily go either way, I think that Locke is actually a good guy. I'm not talking about his behavior but about his motives. If it turns out that he helped all these people by some evil plan then he's probably the arch villain of the series... Though I doubt it. I think that he motives are benevolent. There are characters that trust him 100%, Boone and Charlie being the most prominent ones, and others like Jack that are suspicious of his motives due to his behavior.

The way I see his story going on is him being the Gandalf - mentor type of the series. The older, powerful, experienced guy who helps the heroes get on with their inner journeys. If that scenario is played to the end I suppose that at some point Locke must die. When he has taught all the people all he can teach them and he is of no further use to any of the heroes he will probably sacrifice himself against a foe he knows he cannot win in order to achieve a greater good. Typical Gandalf / Obi-Wan Kenobi type of plot. That is if he is good to the end...

If he is evil he will probably lose it at some point during the series. He probably does not want to leave the island and maybe he would go to great lengths to ensure that. Killing would be one solution but a far more sinister one would be tricking the characters into doing what he wants them to do. Essentially moving them as pawns. In this scenario he would be nothing short of Satan. But I really do not think that there is any type of clear-cut evil guy in the series.

I think that there will be no totally bad guy because so far there is no totally good guy. You could say that Jack is the hero but as with any good heroes he has lots of flaws and some weaknesses. Charlie our friendly religious junkie is good, but he is 'weak' in terms of leadership and such and he is a supporting character. Without getting into each individual, all characters so far are mostly good (yes even Sawyer - though not Ethan) but all have their inner demons that they have to face. Locke helps all of them so far to face and vanquish their demons that is why I think he is ultimately a good guy. Though his behavior is eccentric to say the least and that can cause suspicion. But honestly as with the whole series, so with Locke, it can go in every direction imaginable.

We can have that the whole series is just a dream (that would suck so much that I think it is disqualified), we can have a clear cut Good Guys (all main characters) VS Bad Guys (the Others), Good Guys (the Others) VS bad Guys (the main characters), Good camp VS bad camp, etc...

I think it is totally in the whims of the writers to develop Locke into whatever direction they like without the character losing believability.

Anyway that's about it for now. Whadya think?

Matthew is a fox

01-16-05, 11:29 PM

I think you are one smart cookie, that's what I think :)

susie1967

01-18-05, 12:05 PM

I think you are right, No Quarter. Locke seems to be the one that would benefit most from staying on the island. I believe that the is the one that hit Sayid when Sayid was trying to triangulate the French signal. Remember, he also snuck up on Sayid on his way back from leaving Boone tied up. Sayid looked kind of shocked that Locke just "appeared" there without Sayid having heard him. Locke is also the one that gave Sayid several ideas about who might have hit him...methinks he knows a little too much about that...

Matthew is a fox

01-18-05, 06:39 PM

I also suspected Locke was the one that hit Sayid and he is known to lie. Remember when Michael asked Locke if he had seen the monster and he responded rather quickly with a no? We all know that was a lie. However, and you can call this a vibe, I think Locke has "good" intentions with every motive. If he did indeed hit Sayid, there has to be a reason why he would have done that.

Kyrian Windstarr

01-18-05, 07:30 PM

It seems that right now his motives are the most important thing to figure out. If he is indeed evil, than the obvious questions to me seems to be why hasn't he done more damage already. He is certainly capable of doing so and honestly doesn't need anyone else on the island. He can provide food that no one questions what-so-ever and has the ability to fillet the entire cast at whim. So, why doesn't he if he is evil...unless he has other (incredibly evil) plans for them.

I'd be willing to bet that he is the one of the few people that see this island adventure going on for a long time and with the extreme dangers involved needs to strengthen everyone up to survive the rigors sure to come.

As far as Sayid, I honestly can't comment I'm afriad since I haven't seen that episode :-( Just waiting for reruns to come around so I can catch up.

Kyrian

nexgod

01-19-05, 01:38 PM

I think he might be a kind of Messiah or something

Like the story about a man being able to walk in heaven and such.

>D

Matthew is a fox

01-19-05, 07:47 PM

I'd be willing to bet that he is the one of the few people that see this island adventure going on for a long time and with the extreme dangers involved needs to strengthen everyone up to survive the rigors sure to come.

I think you hit the nail on the head with that thought. Great assertion :)

charlie

01-20-05, 04:03 AM

It is very hard to tell right now...Locke may be good and he may also be evil. Perhaps a little bit of both. I think that he secretely has an urge for the people to stay on the island because ever since he's been there, not only has he been looked up to but also, he has been able to do what it was that he wanted to do. Stuff he couldn't do while in the wheel chair. Also, there is still the fact that he may infact be trying to get everyone off the island and focused on their tasks. Like he told Walt, "You have to focus.". He helped many people such as Charlie and Jack.

But, what motives does he have for helping Charlie? Perhaps he has a deeper reason as to why Charlie had to stop drugs? Perhaps he was such a hard-core fan of Drive Shaft that he wanted him to stop.

All I can say is that Locke is very wise but we makes my mind boggle a bit is when he is talking to Jack and says that it his fault that Charlie and Claire were missing. He spent many days hanging around with Ethan. Hmm...our hunter is certainly not very good with seeing through people's personalities or...perhaps Ethan and Locke knew each other already, maybe steering towards the same goal.

Perhaps, Claire's baby is evil and he told Ethan about Claire. Maybe Walt is the good one because Locke has been helping him so much. Or he can just be planning everything into a deeper trap.

At this moment...it is very difficult to tell whether or not Locke is "Good" or "Evil" but I'm sure enough, that in time, we'll soon find out.

ljt118

01-20-05, 06:35 PM

I think Locke is okay--just a very calculating person. His office buddies called him Colonel or whatever because he played some strategy war game (I assume something like a Warhammer??). He already knows how to manipulate people and work their weaknesses. Not in a bad way though.

I've heard a school of thought that thinks he may be creating alliances for a "new society" or somehting. I'm reaching, but I can kind of see it. He is choosing people to surround himself with. Which is WHY he is helping people--Boone, Charlie, Walt, etc.

He helped Boone to "let go" of the anger he had for Shannon. He helped Charlie overcome his addiction. He helped Michael "rescue" his son and become more of a father to him. He is helping little Walt realize his potential, whatever that may be. He is befriending people.. I think for some sort of new group or something. Maybe he knows that the weak will be killed off by the monster/island, and he is keeping people who he thinks may have special skills to assist others to allow the group to suruvive.

I think its all a big strategy. He must have been pretty good at his war games to have his friends call him Colonel.

3lguys

01-22-05, 03:07 AM

Locke is good guy for sure. He helps others and save people lives. He actually helped boone, charlie, Jack, michael as of right now. The episode for boone when he put the medicine on the head to forget the feelings for shannon, the episode he helped charlie on drugs, the part when he wanted Jack to find his way to figure out his fathers past and presence and Michael son in the polar bear scene. Locke isnt evil. He may look different and act different but gets to be a handy and eagar man to be around.

Conundrum

02-25-05, 06:19 PM

if possible could someone please enlighten me on what color peaces locke uses in backgammon, that is if u can tell, after all he did give a good speech on the dark side and the light side.

Hodgepodge

02-25-05, 06:32 PM

Conundrum asks:
if possible could someone please enlighten me on what color peaces locke uses in backgammon, that is if u can tell, after all he did give a good speech on the dark side and the light side.
I´m not sure if we´re ever shown. I can´t remember whether he played with dark or light in either Pilot (Part 2), or ...In Translation episodes. But, I see what you´re looking for. Maybe someone else might have a screencap of both instances?

Tiny Prairie Girl

03-04-05, 03:26 AM

He's not evil. He's really, really smart.

GOPJASON

03-04-05, 05:53 PM

I think it would be interesting to know if people who think Locke could be a force for evil or one for good fell politically. It seems to be subjective. I for one never thought he was at all evil till reading these posts. I see him as the only adult on the island. I wont be surprised ,but disappointed, if he is "sacrificed" as some sort of Christ figure by seasons end.

klumsyboy

03-12-05, 10:34 PM

ok this is my 2nd post ever here, i found out about show from irc and dled every single episode to ep 18 about numbers. now i wait for 30 march to get the next one..

I love the show and its so much better than alias even though its created by same person. shannon is sooo much prettier than jennifer garner.... ok i digress

Locke, well I believe he has supernatural powers to read peoples minds so he can always come up with a story to calm an upset person down without needing that person to explain their cause for anxiety eg sawyer, boone, pregnant girl etc. I think the psychic saw him there too so he sent the pregnant girl there.

now whether he is evil or not needs to be seen. he could be the devil incarnate and befriend everyone and play them against each other (eg saying sawyer must have attacked sayed)

What strikes me as odd is that he is so charming on the island but in real life he has to rely on phone call to hookergirlfriend.
Eg he can diffuse conflicts just by saying something ie is a good negotiator and seems to know what to say every single time.
or like someone else said, he suddenly become posessed when he met the monster?

But then the french lady said there is no such thing as monsters and she has been here for years and survived.

ive liked locke ever since he was in xfiles and other paranormal tv shows,

he reminds me of the old dude on one of the earlier survivor series who made it in the last couple though.

i would like to see what happens when he hears about the numbers. so far no one has mentioned them to him yet...

It appears that all the characters were related to each other in terms of destiny eg fat lottery guy being locke's boss, sawyer meeting charlie's dad

i love this show and locke is my favorite character.

BuffyGroupie

03-16-05, 01:58 PM

No, no, not evil, exactly. OK, well maybe a little. I wonder sometimes if he's even still alive. I mean when he saw the monster or whatever he saw, obviously, that changed him, but did he live through it? Is this really Locke or the monster taking his place? OK, that was just crazy talk, right?

I don't think Locke himself is evil. I believe he might have a purpose in all that he's doing and that he knows more than they do about what's going on, for whatever reason. He doesn't just help everyone he also moves events along, as in giving the knife to Sayid and pointing him towards Sawyer.

What I find hardest to follow is how he went from a very sad loser, trying to find companionship with a phone sex chick and a life in make believe war games, to an island god just because he regained the use of his legs. Either there is a lot more to Locke from before whatever caused him to lose the use of his legs 4 years ago, or he really had some sort of spiritual experience when he *saw* the monster.

Either way, I don't think its necessarily evil, more calculating and purposeful.

Inkast

05-11-05, 02:55 PM

I love Locke because so far I haven't been able to tell if he is good or evil. The character is so mysterious and interesting that I wont care what he turns out to be.

Quote:

"What I find hardest to follow is how he went from a very sad loser, trying to find companionship with a phone sex chick and a life in make believe war games, to an island god just because he regained the use of his legs."

The way I see it is that in his everyday "real world" life, Locke was miserable and didn't have a lot going for him, he was wheelchair-bound, didn't get along with his boss etc.

His one passion seems to be surviving out in the wild and dealing with the challenges that come with it, so when he is stranded on the Island in the type of enviroment he was yearning to experience (aka the Walkabout) and at the same time regains use of his legs, he suddenly appears to be "an island god" type because he knows what he is doing (He had prepared for the Walkabout for quite some time if I remember correctly) and is put in situations where he can use his skills.

Brian

05-11-05, 11:29 PM

Inkast,

Whether Locke is evil or good, to say the least, has been debated feverishly. There are those who are adamant on both sides and there are few in the middle, such as yourself.

I agree with your comments in that Locke has finally come "into his element" so to speak. That's why some refer to him as a spirit guide for the rest of the castaways. Who knows?

I'm with you though, no matter how he's determined in the end, I'm sticking with him. If I were on the island I'd be his shadow.

DohBoy

05-12-05, 04:24 AM

If I were on the island I'd be his shadow.

Are you sure about that? You know what happens to Locke-shadows, though, doncha? They get beaten every other episode until they die in a tragic accident.

"Leuthen-beating" doesn't have quite the same ring to it, though. How about a "Leuthen-lashing"?

LostInWilderness

05-12-05, 09:34 AM

NO!

No character in Lost is so simple as good or evil. And Locke is more complex than anyone except possible Kate.

boonian androphile

05-12-05, 11:37 AM

I think though that Locke is as careless on the island as Kate was pre-815. Locke has a totally new life to make horrible errors with. Kate wants to forget, survive, and not be caught, boxed in, or defined. She's desperate in other words. I like the parallel between them.

Brian

05-15-05, 09:24 PM

DohBoy,

Funny! I had to laugh out loud at that one! Seriously though, yeah, I kinda get the concept of what happens to those associated with Locke. Maybe that's why Michael won't let Walt anywhere near him, or at least didn't at one time. That relationship, Walt/Locke/Michael, is still playing out, IMO, at this time and seems to be in a state of flux to say the least.

All that said, I'd rather die helping Locke than shaking on that damn raft! That's not to say anyone dies on the raft but I just don't trust it.

One thing I learned while in the Army, people gravitate toward "born leaders" if that makes any sense. Regardless of the title or rank held, some people are just born to lead. Locke is one of those, IMO granted, and that's why those with a strong survival instinct will eventually gravitate toward him (i.e. Sayid, Jack, Walt, Michael?, Boone, Charlie, and perhaps someday Kate and Shannon, yes you read that right, Shannon.)

Brian

05-15-05, 09:29 PM

LIW,

You've found that as well? I mean, the complexity of Locke and Kate. I would also throw Sawyer and Walt into that mix. I'm not trying to take anything away from any of the others, but these characters just have "that thing" about them. What is that thing? I don't know and you probably don't either. It's like when you meet someone and you say "There's something about them but I can't put my finger on it."

jcrew1179

05-22-05, 12:00 AM

So I think Locke is Evil, or he's manipulated by the island to do evil things:

(1) He was friendly with Ethan and when Ethan took Charlie/Claire, Locke went a separate way than Jack because Locke did not want to find C/C and instead went exploring for the hatch, even though Jack knew that Charlie/C went that other direction.

(2) The island gave locke the use of its legs and now Locke is serving the island by keeping the survivors there - he knocked out Sayid when he tried to triangulate the distress signal because he did not want the survivors to obtain radio contact to the outside world.

(3) Locke found Claire - perhaps he knew that Claire had escaped from Ethan and he knew where she was coming back from.

(4) Locke has seen the Monster and he's not scared of it, perhaps because the monster spared Locke and gave it the Boar as food. Locke knows the monster and realizes that its a security device.

(4a) The monster is as tall as the trees, I just noticed that Ethan was collecting fruit by knocking down fruit from the treetops, perhaps Ethan and the monster are working together.

Brian

05-22-05, 05:21 AM

jcrew1179,

Hmm.......give me a minute. No, better yet, I'll respond to this tomorrow(later today) after I've had time to think about it. Interesting indeed.

Mattie

05-22-05, 06:12 PM

At first I thought he was (Tabula Rasa with the creepy music).

Then I thought he wasn't, and was just misunderstood...

Then in Deus Ex Machina his stock took a deep drop because he SAW Boone's face all bloody and he still told him to go inside the plane. *I* believe he knew Boone would get injured. He's been telling everyone the island brought them there for a reason so maybe he thought it was Boone's destiny to die...I don't know.

He still ain't right.

Brian

05-23-05, 03:55 AM

jcrew1179,

Before I begin, allow me to explain that I have missed various episodes, and various portions of other episodes, of LOST. Call me an idiot. There's a long explanation behind this that doesn't bear repeating here, just remember that as you read through this. I'll remedy that problem in September, till then, I can only go on what I already believe to be true.

OK, here we go -

"(1) He was friendly with Ethan and when Ethan took Charlie/Claire, Locke went a separate way than Jack because Locke did not want to find C/C and instead went exploring for the hatch, even though Jack knew that Charlie/C went that other direction."

OK, this is why I gave the disclaimer earlier. I didn't see the scene so I can't logically comment on it. That said, I must have really missed something because I do remember bits and pieces of Locke and Ethan but I don't remember Locke being friendly toward Ethan. I have to leave this one alone.

"(2) The island gave locke the use of its legs and now Locke is serving the island by keeping the survivors there - he knocked out Sayid when he tried to triangulate the distress signal because he did not want the survivors to obtain radio contact to the outside world."

Interesting. I can't say for sure whether it is the island, the others, or ? who gave Locke the use of his legs. I originally thought it could have been from the plane crash but after his apparent relapse during the "Boone" incident, I can't say that is true. There is definitely a higher power working to allow Locke to walk. What that power is, I have no idea. Everyone wants to credit the island, but I don't buy into that completely. Too many unanswered questions here.

I don't think Locke is serving anyone, for any reason (that doesn't mean something isn't working "through" Locke). To keep the survivors there? Where else are they going? That has nothing to do with Locke. Oh yeah, knocking out Sayid. I wish I had Tivo so I could rewatch the scene where Locke admitted to Sayid that he had knocked him out. I can't remember what he said. I still don't think that this is the island working through Locke........OK, maybe in a small way....OK, maybe in a larger way. :) This is still a confusing concept. I'd like to see more about Locke's motivations before I cast judgement on his actions there.

"(3) Locke found Claire - perhaps he knew that Claire had escaped from Ethan and he knew where she was coming back from."

Again, I missed that portion of that episode. Seems like I saw all of the non-important pieces of these episodes, huh? :)

"(4) Locke has seen the Monster and he's not scared of it, perhaps because the monster spared Locke and gave it the Boar as food. Locke knows the monster and realizes that its a security device."

Yes, Locke has seen the Monster. I actually remember this one. "..and he's not scared of it..." That should tell you something. Is there something to be scared of? Yeah the pilot and Boone's "dream sequence" but how do we know for sure that those incidents were caused by the same monster that Locke saw? Who ever said for sure there's only 1 "Monster?" If it was that violent, why would Locke still be around? Oh yeah, the context of your original post.

"Locke knows the monster and realizes that its a security device." Really? Did you see something I didn't? I mean, how does Locke realize it's a security device? Maybe he does have insight that the others don't but that doesn't mean he knows everything.

"(4a) The monster is as tall as the trees, I just noticed that Ethan was collecting fruit by knocking down fruit from the treetops, perhaps Ethan and the monster are working together."

Well, if the monster was as high as the trees then we would have at least caught a glimpse at this point, no? Why? How many scenes have there been where we've seen trees fall, etc? If the monster were as tall as the trees, we'd have caught at least a glimpse by this point. (Personally, I think it's large but I haven't passed judgement on a real size as of yet.) Even if Ethan and the monster were working together, they certainly aren't now, as far as we know and that's a whole other thread.

All of that said, I'm sure you've read at least some of what I've written about Locke here in the past. You probably realize I'm a huge Locke fan. You also realize that I am first in line when it comes to Locke knowing something about the island that the others don't. You also realize that I believe the island or ?, in some way, does have influence over Locke. Influence doesn't necessarily mean control. I think Locke is a very "torn" and "confused" character in this saga. To say he's complex, is putting it lightly!

All that aside, I don't think any of it necessarily makes Locke evil. It doesn't make the island evil. I think there is a confrontation occuring (has been occuring) on this island that our castaways got plunged into. They're still feeling their way around at this point, yeah, even going into the finale.

The dictionary defines evil in three ways.

1 - a : morally reprehensible : SINFUL, WICKED *an evil impulse* b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct

This definition doesn't fit at all. Locke is not morally reprehensible. And don't throw Boone back at me. That wasn't morally reprehensible, that was confusion and I've commented on that scene too many times.

2 - a : archaic : INFERIOR b : causing discomfort or repulsion : OFFENSIVE *an evil odor* c : DISAGREEABLE

OK, possibly. Locke might be older (as I approach 40, I refuse to use the word "old") but he isn't archaic by any stretch. Inferior? Please! Locke does cause discomfort and/or repulsion, and is definitely disagreeable. Most of the time to Jack and/or Shannon. That given, it doesn't make him inherently evil. Those are issues between Locke, Jack, and Shannon. Locke wasn't acting with the foreknowledge that he would cause those emotions. In other words, he didn't go into that situation with malicious intent in mind. The "evil" in that instance was caused by the subsequent incidents.

3 - a : causing harm : PERNICIOUS *the evil institution of slavery* b : marked by misfortune : UNLUCKY

Causing harm. This is a matter of semantics, really. Has Locke caused harm? Yeah, I'll give you that in the context that he was present. Did he do it maliciously? No, at least not IMHO. Locke would definitely fit the "marked by misfortune", or "UNLUCKY" tag, but who on the island doesn't? Hell, they're all unlucky, look where they are! Does that look lucky to you? Me neither.

Finally, I'll give you that Locke sometimes does things that appear to be, uhm, misguided at times. I wouldn't classify them as "evil" though. What does that make him? Evil? No. Human? Hell yeah! He's human, he makes mistakes, don't we all? Does that make any of us evil? Not by that question. Evil is a definition/classification that goes beyond the word itself. You have to consider the situation surrounding your classification. So Locke was there when Boone died. Did Locke cause it? Most would say yes but to take your line of thinking, no. Why? Because the island gave Locke his ability to walk, and took it away at that point in the saga. How is that Locke's fault? That's the island's fault. It also makes a good argument that the island is possibly evil because of how it uses the castaways.

LostIslandJedi

05-23-05, 11:43 PM

hehehehe ---keep fighting the good fight Leuthen...:lol ;)

btw ---do you know how I can make my pic show up bigger underneath my name like yours does?

Brian

05-24-05, 01:08 AM

LostIslandJedi,

Well, I do try! :) "You've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything!" (Aaron Tippin) I believe what I believe and I'll fight 'till the end. As Rush Limbaugh says, "I won't stop until everyone agrees with me!" :)

OK, to answer your question about the pic/avatar. I could explain it but I'd probably screw it up. Here, do what I did. Go to the main login page for Lost-TV, where all of the various boards are listed before you choose which one to enter. Scroll down to the "Help Desk" section and click on it. Once you're there, the first thing you see is a pinned thread titled "HOW TO: Avatars | Icons | Signatures." That will tell you how to increase your picture size as well as where to do it. This is what I used to find out how to do it. Good luck! Let me know if you need any more help!

BTW - You'll need to have two windows open to do this, at least I did. One to read the instructions, and one to follow them. It's really easy if you do what they say.

crossfire in japan

05-29-05, 10:16 AM

Alright, I'm newbie and a lzy one at that becuase I can't be bothered to skim 4 pages of already old news.

I just recently learned about LOST a less than a month ago. I've watched in rapid succession episodes 1-22. Being in Japan for a few years I'm a bit out of touch with with pop culture back home. Are the Doobie Brothers still together?

Anyway, my 2 cents: Locke represents unlocked potential ie the potential that is in all of us but we rarely get an opportunity to unlock it ourselves due to all the limitations placed on us by society and ourselves.

Locke was a loser in the real world. Not a complete loser inside and out but a loser on the outside. Perhaps a better word would be: "useless" as in useless to the society he was in. Its obviously he had a lot of knowledge stored up and he was a keen observer of human behavior before the crash but in the real world he was in no position to utilize those skills.

I think the first 3(?) episodes before we get his backstory and his emergence as the Hunter, Locke spent getting in tune with the person he really was underneath.

I remember thinking at the beginning Locke was just looney old guy who guessed at what was going on and that his character would be regulated as "that weird guy on the beach." The scene where he smiles to Kate with the orange peal confirmed this at that time.

As for giving the knife to Sayid, wasn't that over the medicine needed by Shannon?

Personally Locke is one of my favorite characters becuase he represent the ability a person has to change. Some of the others are trying to hold onto their pasts and suffering as a result.

After Boone's death, he has been put in a precarious situation. He is one of the few who sees the big picture. He destoryed the radio to keep people from going to a place where the crazy frenchwoman killed everybody. He kept everybody inthe dark about the Hatch because he didn't know anything about it. IF it is dangerous, he is doing them a favor. He understands the island in ways that the others don't and so he really is alone becuase he can't fully explain it to them nor can they fully understand him and the island. Notice how everyone else is relunctant to talk about Ethan and what he represented, the monster, the polar bears, the french woman.

Which I guess makes sense. When confronted with things out of their sphere of influence, people do tend to avoid even thinking about it.

Zoriah Bastin

05-29-05, 11:06 PM

I don't think Locke is evil, just an opportunist who thinks he's doing what's best for everyone. But he has done some bad deeds on the island and deliberately put people in harm's way. Charlie, Boone and Sawyer come to mind.

But the one act of his that I would definitely call malicious is when he lied to Sayid about who knocked him out. He deliberately tried to deflect the blame from himself onto Sawyer. He specifically named him as the logical perpetrator, proceeded to destroy Sawyer's very good alibi with the flimsy 'slow fuse' theory, knowing that Sayid was probably desperate enough to overlook the fact that Sawyer also needed to climb the tree and turn on the antenna at the same time and so could not have run 2km's through dense brush in under 2 mins.

And then he handed Sayid one of his hunting knives, 'in case there's a next time'. Well there would only be a next time if Locke himself was planning on attacking him again. :p

Locke wilfully set Sawyer up, knowing that Sayid might get violent about it and Sawyer might get hurt, and essentially handed him a loaded gun.

Brian

05-30-05, 03:29 AM

crossfire in japan,

Alright, I'm a newbie and a lzy one at that because I can't be bothered to skim 4 pages of already old news.

I started to jump your a@@ about this comment until I read what you wrote after that (in the future, don't start with such a negative comment! :) ). I must say, you did a wonderful job. That said, I wouldn't use the words "loser" or "useless" to describe Locke before the plane crash. I think the word you're looking for is outsider. He's not in the mainstream of society, hell, he's not in the mainstream on the island either. Kinda carries over, huh?

...becuase he represent the ability a person has to change.

Very well said. I agree with you completely. Then again, to me, the biggest thing about Locke to change is his physical status. That may seem small (yeah, it doesn't, that's a MAJOR change) but it represents what the island is able to provide for everyone else and I think Locke channels the island in this way wonderfully. The others haven't completely caught on yet. I remember Locke speaking to Charlie in the beginning about the heroin Charlie had. Locke said, "I'm only going to let you ask for this three times, and after the last time, I'm going to give it to you." (Or something along that line) I thought this was pretty stupid at the time, but when we see what the final outcome was, it was an amazing statement.

Overall I have to admit I was put off by your opening comments but you presented your thoughts wonderfully! Thanks for sharing them.

PS - I'm lazy too! Find the time to read the backpages, you'll learn more than you can believe. I've found the pages leading up to what you see to be really amazing at times. You'll gain a better understanding of where everyone stands. It doesn't take that long and I have to force myself to do it from time to time, but it's always worth it!

LostInWilderness

08-23-05, 07:26 PM

bump

salem2005

01-27-06, 01:52 AM

With the ongoing "change" in Locke's character this season, and most recently in the last episode "The Hunting Party" - I thought this thread should be resurrected to take another look at "Is Locke Evil?"

I read through the posts and comments in this thread that date back over the past year or so...and it is actually very interesting to go back and read now that we are seeing a "darker" side of John Locke.

I'm leaning towards the "Evil" camp after this past episode...and with all the religious references and symbolism floating around lately on this show...I can't help remember how Locke's mother kept insisting that he was "Immaculately Conceived" - isn't the AntiChrist supposed to be an "immaculately conceived" child of Satan???? Hmmmm...the darker Locke gets, the more I wonder....

Brian

01-27-06, 02:02 AM

I read through the posts and comments in this thread that date back over the past year or so...and it is actually very interesting to go back and read now that we are seeing a "darker" side of John Locke.
salem2005, I think we may be seeing a "darker" side of everyone this season. TPTB told us during the summer that the show would be taking a bit of a darker turn this season.

How does that apply to Locke? To be honest, I'm not really sure myself right now. Some say he's acting out of character this season, I think the character is falling into the "darker" classification that we all knew was coming this season. I still don't think that makes Locke evil at all though.

I mentioned it in another thread, and I'll mention it again. I have a nagging feeling that we're missing something important in Lockes backstory. I have some ideas as to what it may be, but I'll have to flesh them out a little before posting them here.

Great thread to revive BTW! The timing was perfect.

salem2005

01-27-06, 03:22 AM

salem2005, I think we may be seeing a "darker" side of everyone this season.

Yes, now that you mention it, I do remember reading/hearing something about things taking a turn towards the "dark" side for the characters this season...it certainly is heading that way with both Locke and Charlie.

I'm not totally sold on the Locke is Evil thing either, but as you said, it was a good time to read through this thread and revive it to take another look at his character.

Personally, I don't want Locke to be evil...he's always been one of my favorite characters...but it is very interesting to see him demonstrating more of his "darker" qualities now on the show.

And I think you are right...there are still some very important things that we need to learn about Locke's past before we can make a good judgment call on what direction his character is really going. I can't wait for another Locke flashback...I hope we get one this season.

Brian

01-27-06, 04:24 AM

I can't wait for another Locke flashback...I hope we get one this season.
Me too salem2005!

Rumor has it, that in February we'll have another Locke-centric story titled "Before The End". It's still speculative though, nothing concrete yet.

tyderium378

01-27-06, 04:33 AM

salem2005

01-27-06, 10:33 AM

I dont think Locke is evil, if anything Locke may be the one guy on the island to save them. Though it would be intresting if we found out he was never paralyzed; maybe he faked it as an alibi to some revenge scheme on his old man. Maybe Locke, the hunter, used this form of camoflauge to ocver any murderous tracks he may have left behind, just a theory. I just wish they would quit making him so creepy, he's one of my favorites on the show.

I don't think he was/is faking that he was paralyzed..the fact that he can walk again on the island seems to play an important role in his "faith" in the island.

I'm starting to think that maybe Mr. Eko's "faith" in the power of God is making Locke feel threatened and confused because of his "faith" in the power of the island. Maybe that is why Locke is starting to kind of lose his grip on reality. This darker side of him is presented in a very intense manner, almost like he is struggling with trying to figure out "why" things seem to be changing for him and for the island.

I don't think he wants to admit that maybe "God" and the power of people's "faith in God" may be stronger than the power of the island and his "faith in the island." This would explain his seemingly harsh reaction to Aaron being baptized. At the same time, I'm also thinking back to that first scene Locke had with Eko when Eko tells him the bible story about Josiah and gives Locke the bible...Locke didn't seem much interested in the story and when he opened the bible, the only thing he was interested in was finding that missing part of the orientation video. But I think that when Mr. Eko gave him the bible and told him, "I think there is something in here that you 'need'" was a very telling sign...I don't think Mr. Eko meant the missing video clip...I think Mr. Eko meant that Locke 'need's faith in the power of God and stop putting so much faith in the power of the island.

The bottom line is that Locke seems very rattled by all this. And to settle that rattle, he feels like he has to take control of things. So he is becoming much more aggressive.

But I agree with you, I wish they would stop making him so "creepy" - he plays that "creepiness" so well but he's starting to scare me! (a sign of a truly wonderful actor BTW - kudos to Terry O'Quinn!).

Eksadus

01-27-06, 11:57 AM

Do I think he's evil? No. Anal, hell yes.

mystjade

01-27-06, 01:04 PM

Locke scared me initialy - Later I relized that this was just from, watching too much Alias (where terry O'Quinn was a reaccuring charichter). In fact there where a couple times last seson where I thought Locke went to far - tieing boone up, Banging Sayid on the head, ultimatley being responsibal for Boones death (and showed no remorse),letting Kate down the hatch. While all of these action's, and more where not alway's justified. They were what Locke thought was neccerly for the island (ok so this part is partialy hypothetical). So while Locke is probabley not evil, I think the main issue is that the is not on the castaway's side.

LostInWilderness

01-27-06, 11:56 PM

With the ongoing "change" in Locke's character this season, and most recently in the last episode "The Hunting Party" - I thought this thread should be resurrected to take another look at "Is Locke Evil?"
You have to back that up. Other than (disappointing, but not even close to evil) pocket protector Locke, Locke has not changed one bit. What has he shown you this season he did not show you last season? Locke has always been a hunter, wise man, dark manipulator, obsessive and interested in children. What has changed?

Homer Noodleman

01-27-06, 11:57 PM

What has changed?

Nothing. He is still a deluded boob. :p

salem2005

01-28-06, 01:24 AM

You have to back that up. Other than (disappointing, but not even close to evil) pocket protector Locke, Locke has not changed one bit. What has he shown you this season he did not show you last season? Locke has always been a hunter, wise man, dark manipulator, obsessive and interested in children. What has changed?

Maybe it's just because he has gotten less airtime this season..but last season he was more of the "mystic" and always seemed to look at things from a very different point of view. He also showed us that he was the go-to guy, he seemed to know about everything and how to do everything (the hunting, the tracking, etc). And there was that calm, steady confidence about him. Even when he was making people angry by doing things his own way...he pulled it off because I actually believed that he believed he was doing the right thing.

For the first part of this season, I have felt like they have "dumbed" him down a bit - this was the "original" change I felt in his character. He doesn't seem as inquisitive or as "all-knowing" as last season. I would have expected for him to be more inquisitive about the hatch..or Desmond...even when he pursued viewing the orientation video...he didn't seem like the old Locke to me really looking to figure out what this is all about. And for a while there, in some of the other episodes, his confidence seemed to be lacking to me.

Then, over the past couple of episodes, he seemed to be returning to form. But then all of sudden in this very last episode (another change), he came on like a raging bull. And now, it seems he doesn't even want to listen to anyone who may be talking about the supernatural effects of the island (i.e. Charlie) and he just wants to roll-over anyone that gets in his way with a vengeance. What used to be a calm, steady confidence (that made me believe that he believed he was doing the right thing) now comes across as a dark, menacing, up-to-no-good Locke...a Locke who doesn't really seem so sure he believes in what he is doing, but he is doing it anyway.

And if you saw the eonline interview that Mr. Eko gave (sorry, I can't spell out his real name without looking it up), he leaked a little spoiler about an upcoming conflict with the darker side of Locke.
I could be just reading more into it than what is there...but that's why I found this thread interesting to read again. And I can't believe I'm about to say this, because I never thought I'd find myself actually quoting Jack, but...here goes..."I think we may have a Locke problem."