Ethan abducting Claire for baby a red herring

[99Percent]

In episode 9 ("Solitary"), when they are playing golf Ethan is with everyone enjoying the new game. Walt runs up to his dad and asks him why he was left alone with Claire sleeping! If Ethan was after Claire and the baby he would have waited around while everyone was distracted with the new past time (which he seemed to have planted in the first place) and abducted Claire right then and there.

This completely disproves the theory that Ethan is one of the "others" going after Claire because she is pregnant.

So what is the logical explanation left? I think Ethan is the guy who has been said is in serious need of psychiatric medication. I also think he is the one planted by the psychic to "escort" Claire to the new adoption couple for her baby in L.A. while travelling on the plane. When his medication ran out he suddenly went berzerk and thought he had to comply with his "mission" of escorting Claire. He revealed this while kidnapping both Claire and Charlie, that is why Charlie was so shocked to learn the truth and said only that "They were only after her baby", meaning not the "others" but the couple in L.A. and the con psychic.

What happened next is that while the loony Ethan was taking them both to some nonexistent place, Claire managed to escape. That is why the trail paths forked. Ethan in his desperation hanged Charlie. What Jack saw was just his imagination, after all he suffered a severe tumble in his fall from the steep climb.

What is going to happen next? Claire is going to appear all shocked and dazed and confused to the amazement of everyone. Nobody is going to have a clue as to what the heck happened.

[kaycee13]

Maybe Ethan didn't abduct her earlier because he wanted to make sure she was close to being in labor, thus weakening her ability to resist somewhat?

On the other hand, maybe you're right about him being the medication-needer. But I don't understand why the psychic would plant someone on the plane as an escort... that doesn't really fly with me, but I can't really put my finger on why, other than the fact that it doesn't seem quite *right*.

[99Percent]

The psychic already had the plane tickets ready for Claire and he was quite insistent that she go on that flight. This makes me think that Claire had a secret escort to make sure she didn't run off with the money ($6,000) the psychic gave her and that she would arrive safely with the new adoption couple.

Good point about Ethan wanting to wait until she was in labor, but wouldn't she be much more in protection of everyone at that moment? Claire alone at the caves and sleeping would have been too much of reason not to abduct her right there and then.

[99Percent]

Also Ethan might not have revealed the conspiracy behind the con man, only to say that he had to take Claire to the couple who are waiting for the baby, or something like that.

[Trillian8]

I was under the impression that the psychic *knew* that the plane would crash, and made up the L.A. couple...?

[lolane3]

Interesting theory 99Percent, and, I believe, completely based in logic given our current information. I am more anxious than ever to see how this plays out.

[Jammet]

Actually the only thing that really comes to mind about Claire being that special is the baby. Ethan could have abducted just about anyone at all, but she's the most vulnerable person of the bunch, so even if it isn't about the baby - she would be the one to be targeted.

And something during the fighting between Jack and Ethan made me think "army boots". There are others with Ethan. You never see them up close, but the whole thing felt like they all were a bunch of soldiers. Part of the brutality just made me think that.

So, my speculation is that this Ethan person already lived on the Island before the plane crashed. If he was a stranger, then how would he end up with these other strangers? If everybody besides Ethan was accounted for, the other people on that passenger list would be those other strangers? Nobody's missing anyone besides Ethan. They were not on the plane. And they know Etan.

[FreakyLocke]

Why would Ethan have been planted by the psychic to make sure Claire got to LA when the psychic knew the plane would crash? That doesn't really make sense

[99Percent]

How would a "psychic" know that a plane is going to crash? Now that doesn't make sense. Remember I am following pure logic and common sense, discarding any supernatural or non-scientific reasons.

I am thinking that maybe Ethan doesn't even need to be the one planted by the psychic. He might just have bizarre psychological issues with pregnant women. Once medication is off a mental patient, no reason for his actions are necessary!

[Jammet]

If Ethan was on the plane, then who are the others with him? Why do they know each other, and why aren't they accountd for on the passenger list?

[Black Dahlia]

Darn, I just noticed I misred the title topic. I thought it said "Ethan abducting Claire for baby: a red herring."

I was all prepared how to explain herrings are coldwater fish, full of essential oils, which the "others" must be starving for after 16+ years of eating only warm-water fish, wild pork, boogers, rabbit, and taro root. Oh well.


P.S. I do not understand the post directly above mine. Have I missed something? Maybe the Episode 11 Director's Cut?

[Stu1961]

Who would have suspected that missing 1% could be soooooo vital?

What "logical" purpose does a secret escort (one with pscychiatric problems no less) have of getting on the plane - when Claire was already on the plane, headed to LA, to meet the couple at the airport? Was he supposed to prevent her from jumping off midflight? If the psychic was so concerned about $6000, why spend big cash on a round-trip ticket for a psycho?

Ethan kicks the crap out of Jack, hangs Charlie, and by Locke's own admission is a far better hunter/survivalist than he is - yet the pregnant Claire escapes.

He revealed this while kidnapping both Claire and Charlie, that is why Charlie was so shocked to learn the truth and said only that "They were only after her baby", meaning not the "others" but the couple in L.A. and the con psychic. Not what Charlie says. He says "Claire", not the baby. Yes it can be inferred - but it ruins your theory. Oops!

Jack hallucinates the encounter with Ethan - yet Ethan's threat to kill one of them comes true....

Brilliant!

[99Percent]

Yeah, sarcasm aside, I am trying to make sense as to why Ethan didn't abduct Claire when he clearly had a much easier chance to do so when they were golfing and Claire was sleeping alone, no less, in the caves.

Sorry, but I do not accept ESP type explanations, that the psychic "knew" the plane was going to crash for example. If you are going to throw logic out then anything is possible and any type of especulation would be valid and discussing it pointless.

[Stu1961]

Yeah, sarcasm aside, I am trying to make sense as to why Ethan didn't abduct Claire when he clearly had a much easier chance to do so when they were golfing and Claire was sleeping alone, no less, in the caves.

Maybe he still needed to conduct some tests? Or was still formulating his plan - and the info from Charlie on the path forced his hand?


Sorry, but I do not accept ESP type explanations, that the psychic "knew" the plane was going to crash for example. If you are going to throw logic out then anything is possible and any type of especulation would be valid and discussing it pointless.
You needn't accept ESP. All that is important is that the psychic and, more importantly, Claire do.

Do keep in mind, however, that this IS a TV show. Using a real psychic as a premise to further a plot does not break any laws. His being real involves just one assumption and the rest of the pieces fall in line, while most other theories involve making numerous assumptions and then trying to make the pieces fit. Good luck, but you could end up (easily) heading further south than Michael in your search for an explanation.

[Latin Protoss]

I have my own reasons for there being a forked path. It wasn't just Ethan. There were more. One of the "more" hung Charlie. Ethan took Claire on the "Locke and Boone" path, where the metal thing is. Claire is being held in the metal thing, like a prison-or a hospital.

[Chups]

I think that the psychic really knew that the plane would crash (everything is possible in a TV show 0] ), because he exactly said to Claire: "It has to be this flight."

If he really just wanted Claire to fly to a couple in Los Angeles, it could be any flight to Los Angeles. ;)

[Jammet]

@Black Dahlia:

Let's for a moment assume that Ethan was on the plane. His name is not on the passenger list, but let's assume he was on the plane anyway.

He abducted Claire. Let's ignore the reason.

He is not alone! Who are the people that help him?

These people are also not on the passenger list. Obviously. Nobody ever asked, "Hey dude, why are there so many people walking around among us who are not shown on the passenger list?". Only Ethan stood out.

Now, what could this mean? I think it means that these other people simply were not on the plane. And they were not acting as if they were. Only Ethan was.

And they know Etan. Again - these people help him. Why would they do that, why do they know him if he was on that plane and never met these people in his entire life?

And this is where I am convinced that Ethan was on the Island before the plane crashed, with those people.

There, hope that explained better what I mean....

One little thing: At the end of the episode, Charlie says, "That's all they wanted. Claire."

Ethan and somebody else. Right?

[Hawkmistress]

I think Ethan went psycho and was actually on the plane, but gave Hurley a false name because of paranoid delusions.

After Claire was "attacked" at the caves, Ethan kidnapped her to "protect" her. Maybe he also gave Charlie some plausible story as to why he and Claire should come with Ethan.

Then the Others appeared, captured Ethan and Claire, and strung up Charlie to distract Jack and Kate.

They wanted Claire, but they took Ethan because they wanted Jack & Company think that he was the one who had Claire. If they had also left Ethan for dead along with Charlie, then Jack and Kate would have suspected the existence of the Others.

[a23fraser]

anybody remember Alien? Ethan could be a cyborg sent to infiltrate the group and seperate/ take claire. This would explain his "super human" strength when tossing jack around and also locke commented on his superior tracking/hunting skills. question is who sent him and why?

[99Percent]

Interesting theory Hawkmistress, but doesn't sound right. Why would Charlie go along with Ethan so far into the island? What could Ethan possibly say to Charlie that would convince him to go along with his plan "to protect Claire". Also Ethan didn't go ask Jack for help, he went away a long time and came back directly to Claire and Charlie. This clearly shows bad intentions on Ethan's part.

There is an irreconciliable contradiction: Charlie says that "They only wanted Claire", but it is a fact that Charlie was also kidnapped, dragged a long way, blindfolded and almost killed (relunctantly I would think). If they only wanted Claire, then why didn't they just knock Charlie unconscious or even kill him at the moment of Claire's abduction? I cannot think that taking Charlie as bargaining chip would make sense. He was obviously being dragged along slowing them down, it would have been much more sensible to drop Charlie behind so they could get away as fast as possible. If Charlie saw something they didn't want the group to know they could have just killed him.

The only explanation I can think of right now, is that Charlie is lying, to somehow protect Claire and/or the whole group. So if he is lying then it isn't true that they are only after Claire, they are after anyone and if so, then why doesn't Charlie say so? Maybe he thinks that the others are just too strong to even try to make an effort at defending? Or maybe he is just in shock and is not making sense.

[yung23]

Simply watching the show one does not come to the conclusion Ethan is helping Claire. The look he gave her at the end of the second last episode made me think Ethan was the guy in the "dream"..

This does not disprove the theory he attacked her through a dream state though.
I have to admit, when I watched the scene where Jack falls down, I was expecting him to look up and see Kate, but at that point things go "filtered", they definitely used some sort of blur/ haze effect to show either that Jack was simply dazed, or that is was a dream sequence..

but would a dream attack physically move Jack around ?
I've tripped in many dreams and I move in real life in response, I do buy that idea.
Why wouldn't JJ have show us nothing attacking Jack ?
too big a hint right ?

How could Ethan project himself without actually being at this assumed Black rock/Power source/M. chair, anyone know the real spelling of this magical chair ?

was he already there with Claire ?
Was charlie already unconscious ?
Did he project himself to tell Jack not to follow even ?
Then when Jack kept on, he projected himself hanging Charlies unconscious body at the foot of the tree ?

I have been a fan of the ALIEN X theory based on the comic walt found, but I have had a hard time swallowing that pill.

I will however believe a meteorite has that effect on living organisms, it would be a black rock, the monster could be an animal long ago trapped and somehow learned how to project itself even, that may explain not seeing it.

I sit here everyday just wanting to take in more of LOST, but even all this theorizing is not enough !

anyone else feel the frustration of wanting more ?

I want to be there. THIS SHOW IS SOOO ADDICTING !!

damn you JJ
Bless you JJ
damn you JJ
Bless you JJ
damn you JJ
Bless you JJ
damn you JJ
Bless you JJ

ARRRRGHHHHHHHHH !!!

[drabauer]

All of these second guesses regarding the arbitrary nature of Charlie's hanging make me dizzy. It seems to me obvious why they went to the trouble of stringing him up (whoever THEY is): terror. To merely beat or even efficiently kill Charlie would have inspired anger and revenge. But the Others want to strike fear into the heart of the survivors, and show that they are a force to be reckoned with.

[99Percent]

Another idea occurred to me regarding Charlie's hanging (even though it goes contrary to my meta theory):

Remember how in episode 1, it rained the same way when Jack, Kate and Charlie went looking for the cockpit section of the plane? And then the creature appeared? Maybe they were around the same area, and the creature appears when it is raining that way. The others are deathly afraid of the creature and know the connection between the rain and the creature, so when it suddenly started raining they panicked and put up Charlie as bait for the creature. They mercifully blindfolded him and strung him up as fast as possible and scurried away with Claire.

The others, and Danielle, know that the creature can only attack from high ground that is why they build underground. The metal object Locke and Boone found is part of one of these underground shelters.

[drabauer]

Wow, 99, that's a very good guess!

Others, monsters, underground lair--I'm still dizzy though!

[Artuskan]

As to why Ethan didn't kidnap Claire while everyone was playing golf ...

He probably wanted to wait until Claire had the baby and then just kidnap it. Much easier to pull off. When Hurley started taking a census he knew he would be exposed, so he had to move quicker than planned.

[Wynter Zera]

bumping.

[Jay Montesio]

I don't think the Others are afraid of the creature, I think the Others ARE the creature, and the creature is the Island. It starts raining because the Island is trying to keep people from getting too far inland and too close to the secret of the Island. Recall, Locke can tell you exactly when it is going to rain, and that is because he has become one with the Island and nature -- which was his stated goal of going on the walkabout -- when he met the creature face to face. The rain and the creature are all just manifestations of the Island/Others trying to keep out prying eyes. Just my $.02. ;)

[lsc41a2004]

Just rember that the physic said that the baby was special an need to have claire's guiding hand, in his life. Not to sure about ethan at all an rember the french lady said there were others on the island .

[Wes Cohn]

That's what "the psychic" said, who puts his trust in intangibles. I don't consider any of his claims valid.

[OhioSteve1]

I respectfully disagree with the thesis presented in this thread.

Charlie states quite clearly that more than one person participated in the kidnapping. For your temporary insanity theory to be correct, you would need several "Ethans" on the plane, and they would all need to run out of medication simultaneously.

We have alot of evidence suggesting that supernatural events are a part of this story, and that children are a focus for these events. We know that a child was involved in the disaster that befell the French team. We know that Walt can influence physical phenomena with his mind. We know that the Australian psychic felt that Claire's baby would have paranormal powers.

Based on this evidence, I feel that the orthodox interpretation of this episode is accurate. Ethan was on the island prior to the planecrash. He deliberately infiltrated the group. He understands that children on the island (or at least Claire's child) have a special importance. He is actively hostile to the protagonists, and he wants to exploit Claire's child.

[v1p3r6]

i zoomed in on one of the shots and i saw a person in the back ground when ethan was fighting jack. i zoomed in on the face and this is what i saw:

http://www.facade.com/celebrity/photo/Michael_Jackson.jpg

so we now know for sure the "others" are after children :D

*ps i know im an ass*

[thepeghockey]

Well I got the impression that Ethan was on the island before the crash because they said that he wasn't on the manifest. And i was thinking about it...maybe Ethan is actually the french lady's son. Because when she kidnapped Sayid she wanted to know where her son went right? So maybe Ethan is actually just using the name Ethan but in reality is the french woman's son.

Now maybe Ethan wanted Claire and the baby because he was lonely? I have no idea to tell you the truth. But I got the impression that he must have planned it (the kidnapping) out, meaning he probably had a lot of time in the past, meaning...maybe he was expecting more people to crash on the island? But seriously, he kidnapped her at the exact right time, well Claire and Charlie, because it was right after Claire almost collapsed. But also Ethan must have trained in some way because its not easy to kidnap two grown people, especially if you basically have to carry one (Claire).

[v1p3r6]

yo thepeghockey good point but this has been discussed previously. keep them coming though :)

the actual answer is 2 posts above this one. ;)