S5 EPISODE 10 THREAD 25-MAR-09 : He's Our You

[Brian]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/Leuthen2/LTV/S5_Lost_400x225.jpg (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59098)

This is the discussion thread for the next LOST episode, "He's Our You"

Writers:

Edward Kitsis (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Edward_Kitsis) and Adam Horowitz (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Adam_Horowitz)

Director:

Greg Yaitanes (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Greg_Yaitanes)

Please utilize this thread to post all your episode comments, reviews, simple questions and general thoughts regarding the episode.

Any new theories or big issues raised by the episode may be started in a new thread.

Enjoy the episode!

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Click here after the episode airs to bypass the live discussion. (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2650847#post2650847)
Episode Description:

Things begin to unravel when one of the survivors goes rogue and takes matters into their own hands -- risking the lives of everyone on the island.


(Episode Transcript) (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59187)


Previous Season 5 discussion threads can be found in Episode Discussion Threads: Season Five (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=329).

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Thank you all for your time.

[Thomas Hobbes]

:Cheers::Cheers::Cheers:Wheeee!!!!!! :Cheers::Cheers::Cheers:

[Greg Gregson]

Happy Wednesday night!:Cheers:

And away we go!!!!!

[Mysterious Mike]

That one Ajira broad looks like an Ana Lucia clone

[Selestina118]

Aww, cute wee Sayid! :p

[chud]

8 pc bucket? Would you like that extra crispy or original recipe?

[PhishCake]

Have we sen this guy before??

[aKa]

That one Ajira broad looks like an Ana Lucia clone

Her name is even 'Illana' : Ill-ana :Cheers:

[Bren Keller]

Sayid - he's the man!

[wandering_aimlessly]

What kind of sandwich did Juliet make Jack, or was it some kind of burger?

[snakey]

Missed the beginning and lil Sayid but seeing the look that big Sayid gave lil Ben was pretty scary.

[Dew]

Whew...my recorder freaked! Glad I only missed part of the Previously on Lost. :D

[RoseArienh]

Was the book The Teachings of Don Juan by Carlos Castaneda?

[Thomas Hobbes]

What kind of sandwich did Juliet make Jack, or was it some kind of burger?
Grilled cheese.

[Dew]

What kind of sandwich did Juliet make Jack, or was it some kind of burger?
Cheeseburger. Ooops my bad.

[Diamondduste]

For those who missed the opening scene, it was there to show Sayid has never had a problem killing... yet I'm guessing this episode is going to show how he became conflicted with what he was doing for Ben.

[Mysterious Mike]

A knuckle sandwich.

[Mechanical_Vader]

Was the book The Teachings of Don Juan by Carlos Castaneda?

I thought the title of the book was "A Separate Reality". Ironic.

[wandering_aimlessly]

Grilled cheese.I was hoping it was a chicken salad!

[Thomas Hobbes]

Cheeseburger. Ooops my bad.
Haha. It's so important.

[sdb5057]

That camera didn't look like it was from the 70's...

[silver]

Eko kills for Yemi.
Sayid kills for his brother.
and he let the Chicken come forward; free will. Kind of.

[AgonyAnne]

Was the book The Teachings of Don Juan by Carlos Castaneda?

I was wondering this too -- anyone see it?

[Dew]

I thought the title of the book was "A Separate Reality". Ironic.

Same here. Correct author. :D

ETA Carlos Castaneda - A Separate Reality

[RoseArienh]

Grilled cheese.

Cheeseburger. Ooops my bad.
You're both right. :D

[aKa]

What kind of sandwich did Juliet make Jack, or was it some kind of burger?

Both, actually.

She made him the cheeseburger while he was in the 'invisible wall' cell, and she made him a grilled cheese when he was in the polar bear cage, just after Jack made Ben spare Juliet's life and she was 'branded'.

:Cheers:

[snakey]

Dig the Fedora!

[LoonyLuna]

Wooooo ben work the hat

[Diamondduste]

Yay!

Return of Sayid: International Man of Mystery

[wandering_aimlessly]

I thought the title of the book was "A Separate Reality". Ironic.
Get it on Amazon now

[Selestina118]

Mmmm - Sayid looks really good in that leather jacket with the straight hair . . . just sayin'. ;)

[snakey]

Yeah we had sneak peaks in Spoilers for the book scene, if you want to rewatch during a commercial, Dezdemona posted.

[RoseArienh]

I knew it was something also on my book shelf, lol.

[snakey]

Sel, he has enough female problems, plus is is only about 5'5", but he still did look mighty good, lol.

[wandering_aimlessly]

Horace versus Sayiid? My money's on Sayiid every time.

[Mechanical_Vader]

Horace: "The next level."

Hmmm. Sayid vs. Goodspeed and Radzinsky. My money's on Sayid.

[snakey]

I knew it was something also on my book shelf, lol.
I loved his books, then found out it was all fiction, is that a (g)clue?

[LoonyLuna]

bahaha best quote

[Diamondduste]

Hahahaha....

Line of the night goes to Sayid early.

[snakey]

Sawyer is really happy there, so sad if it goes bad, poor James.

[Z054J]

If you ever want to see Horace taking things to the next level, watch him in the ultraviolent Punisher: War Zone.

He plays a cannibalistic psycho who likes to tear people apart with his bare hands.

[Mysterious Mike]

Hell yeah he'll go it alone.


Screw you Sawyer.

[Thomas Hobbes]

:celebrate:celebrate
Gone...

[Selestina118]

Aww, Hurley's part of Dharma Food Service . . .

[Bren Keller]

Hurley as a cook. How ironic!

[Diamondduste]

Awkward Hugo... awkward....

[Selestina118]

Ooooh, Ben's dad!! . . . Still a jerk.

Aww - poor wee Ben - I like the kid despite the man he grows into.

[LoonyLuna]

omggg daddy ben abuse :O poor ben

[wandering_aimlessly]

Will Sayid kick Rogers scrawny butt? I hope so.

[Mechanical_Vader]

Ben is a lying, manipulating douche.

[DHARMA815]

"I think he was murdered." HAHAHAHAH!!!!!

[Dew]

What a frakking liar Ben is. :pissed:

[DHARMA815]

For such a badass, Sayid is soooo easily manipulated

[wandering_aimlessly]

Tasers in the 70's?? I'm going to have to google that one.....

[snakey]

Did Ben hire all the people for Sayid to later kill, also anyone he owed money to, hee.

[Selestina118]

This guy looks familiar . . .

[Diamondduste]

DHARMA acid-drop time?

[snakey]

Larry and his brother Darrel, and his other brother Darrell.

[blaze98]

I wonder if his two brothers named Daryl are going to show up

[wandering_aimlessly]

He must be the Dharma equivalent of Timothy Leary!

[snakey]

DHARMA acid-drop time?

Now this is the 70's, welcome Sayid.

[Selestina118]

Did they just feed Sayid one of the Medusa spiders??

[DHARMA815]

I'm just waiting for him to turn on Sugar Magnolia and have everyone wear tie dye!

[Bren Keller]

Tasers in the 70's?? I'm going to have to google that one.....

Totally agree. Taser, camera, those darma people sure are ahead of the game.

[Z054J]

Whoa man, hippie-dippie government spooky mind-fragging interrogation.

That ain't cool.

Sayid should have played along.

[Dew]

:lmao:

So LSD or Truth Serum?

[Mysterious Mike]

What if the monster shows up during Sayid's trip. That would be mindblowingly freaky.

[Diamondduste]

:lmao:

So LSD or Truth Serum?

Probably a little bit of a and a little bit of b.

[sdb5057]

Tasers in the 70's?? I'm going to have to google that one.....
or ultra slim surveillance cameras? Something ain't right.

[RCPDesigns]

Totally agree. Taser, camera, those darma people sure are ahead of the game.
Ya, both of those were just way too small. You would think the prop dept would get off on providing 70s versions as they would look so funny. Hate to use the word lazy, but.....

[Z054J]

:lmao:

So LSD or Truth Serum?

Not all that different. Truth serums are some form of psychedelic/euphoric.

[DHARMA815]

:lmao:

So LSD or Truth Serum?


I don't know but I'm pretty certain I'm going to be sleeping in a similar tent next month when I go see The Dead.

[wandering_aimlessly]

Tasers in the 70's?? I'm going to have to google that one.....
The taser was developed in '74 and the first Taser approved by the ATF in '76 used gunpowder to fire it. Definitely not a handheld device in '73 though.

[Greg Gregson]

Will Richard and the others will come to Sayid's rescue?

[AgonyAnne]

On a sugar cube and with the Carlos Castaneda reference, yeah a hallucinogen seems about right.

[Mysterious Mike]

From what Roger said , " Thought you were the masters of the jungle" , it didn't sound like the Dharmites have captured many/any Hostiles.

[twilightsun]

Totally agree. Taser, camera, those darma people sure are ahead of the game.
Remember. The island is constantly moving through time. Remember the washer/dryer in the Swan?

[Dew]

Not all that different. Truth serums are some form of psychedelic/euphoric.

Oh I know it. Mushrooms ;)

I don't know but I'm pretty certain I'm going to be sleeping in a similar tent next month when I go see The Dead.

Envious. Oh to see Jerry and Pigpen again. :sadwalk:

[Dew]

Ilana!?!?!?!?!

[snakey]

tripmaster too, yeah.

[sdb5057]

That's sebastian from blade runner!
:D

[wandering_aimlessly]

ha ha... ain't nobody gonna believe his story!

[Diamondduste]

Now DHARMA knows an "incident" is going to happen...

And a "purge"...

[Z054J]

That interrogation was AWESOME!

[snakey]

That's sebastian from blade runner!
:D
yes dear, William Sanderson, also the sheriff on True Blood

[blaze98]

maybe I should have used half a dropper...lol.

[wandering_aimlessly]

plenty of awkward moments between our main players tonight.

[snakey]

Annarbor Michigan- the Degroots!!!!!!!!

[DHARMA815]

ETHAN!!!!!

[Diamondduste]

All the children...

Ethan, Charlotte, Ben, Annie...

And I wonder who else :)

[DHARMA815]

Since when did Sawyer become Mr People Pleaser??

[Selestina118]

Aww man - I wonder how Sawyer's going to fix this one?

[Dew]

I have decided I don't like Radzinsky and would like to pop him in the schnoz.

[Diamondduste]

My guess is that Ben saves Sayid in the clutch.

[DHARMA815]

And Sawyer hasn't had one nickname for anybody yet!!!!

[Greg Gregson]

yes dear, William Sanderson, also the sheriff on True Blood

I Liked him better on True Blood....:)

[DHARMA815]

I have decided I don't like Radzinsky and would like to pop him in the schnoz.


*agrees with Dew, looks forward to Radzinsky getting it in the Purge*

[sawyersgirl]

I have decided I don't like Radzinsky and would like to pop him in the schnoz.
I got your back.

[sdb5057]

I smell the purge is going to happen just in time before Sayid gets killed.

[Bren Keller]

I have decided I don't like Radzinsky and would like to pop him in the schnoz.

Yay Dew!

[dbstone]

And Sawyer hasn't had one nickname for anybody yet!!!!

He has been under too much stress!!!!

[Diamondduste]

I smell the purge is going to happen just in time before Sayid gets killed.

The purge doesn't happen for years from now.

[wandering_aimlessly]

I have decided I don't like Radzinsky and would like to pop him in the schnoz.
I'm right behind ya in the line, Dew

[brdmom]

So, do we know who Sayid was talking to in bar? (as he was drinking McCutchon - that's Widmore's scotch, right?)

I think Diamondduste is right about Ben's role in saving Sayid...

[snakey]

My guess is that Ben saves Sayid in the clutch.

Isnt Ben in the same time as Sun (even tho he was cold cocked with the oar) ?

[Diamondduste]

Sayid is about to get a taste of his own medicine...

[AgonyAnne]

That's sebastian from blade runner!
:D

yes dear, William Sanderson, also the sheriff on True Blood

He was also on Deadwood -- D. B. Sweeney.



ETS: Sorry, I get those two actors mixed up. It's still true though that William Sanderson was also on Deadwood.

[Diamondduste]

Isnt Ben in the same time as Sun (even tho he was cold cocked with the oar) ?

Young Ben. Young Ben will probably save him, thus adding to Sayid's conflict.

[DHARMA815]

OH SNAP!!!!!

[sawyersgirl]

"even a new mom wants you dead"

[sdb5057]

The purge doesn't happen for years from now.

Well, things have changed since the last time...

[LoonyLuna]

i hope little ben lets sayid go and he goes off to live with richard <3

[snakey]

oh Sawyer your bumming him out.

[Bren Keller]

OMG they better not kill off Sayid, or I'm quitting this show.

[Dew]

Ilana = Bounty hunter that is being manipulated. :rofl1:

[Diamondduste]

Well, things have changed since the last time...

No they haven't.

The purge happens when Ben is grown. It has happened and will happen again.

[wandering_aimlessly]

Young Ben. Young Ben will probably save him, thus adding to Sayid's conflict.
sounds like a good call to me. Ben thinks he's a hostile, and he will try and get him back to Richard.

Awkward! :D

[Diamondduste]

And there's the diversion...

[sawyersgirl]

Little Ben's a pyro!

[wandering_aimlessly]

"3 years and no burning buses, and y'all back for one day"

Freaking priceless!!

[Diamondduste]

And there is Young Ben.

[Selestina118]

And it comes full circle. Sayid helped integrate Ben into the Others. Nice!! :D

[Diamondduste]

And might I add...

Sayid's about to go rogue on this whole "don't screw up the past" thing...

Young Ben is going to have a target on his head.

[wandering_aimlessly]

and so the circle is complete......

[Mechanical_Vader]

"That's why I'm here."

Wicky wicky wicky whaaaaaaa?????????

[DHARMA815]

Young Ben the firestarter, You just know he's wetting the bed and torturing the cats as well.

[Dew]

So may lies in this episode. They are trying to outnumber the flaming arrows. :faintthud

[snakey]

Poor kid, see he was impressionable and killable to Sayid. I still think he'll avoid it, he'll get the tramp stamp brand like Jules.

[Z054J]

One of my least favorite LOST devices:

Why'd you come back?
It was becauuuuuuuse....

Ooops, oh no, something happens to prevent the answer.

[Z054J]

I have finally found a context in which child abuse is funny and highly recommended! Yaaay!

[DHARMA815]

One of my least favorite LOST devices:

Why'd you come back?
It was becauuuuuuuse....

Ooops, oh no, something happens to prevent the answer.


You didn't really expect a REAL answer did you??

[KrispyKreme1953]

Young Ben the firestarter, You just know he's wetting the bed and torturing the cats as well.

or bunnies...

[sawyersgirl]

I don't think Sayid knows the whole-you can't change time thing. He thinks he is there to kill Ben.

[Diamondduste]

Daniel isn't there to teach Sayid the rules of time-travel and such.

Sayid is going to try and change the past by killing Ben, which is what he thinks he's been sent there to do.

[LoonyLuna]

or bunnies...


LMAO touche.

[DHARMA815]

Speaking of Daniel, have we seen him?

[brdmom]

"Can we get the next plane?"
Great!

[blaze98]

"Can we get the next plane?"
Great!

I nearly fell out my seat laughing

[wandering_aimlessly]

Yep, Sayid don't think much of Ben, does he?

[Coookie]

Whaaaa???

[LoonyLuna]

OMG WTF!!!!!!!!!

[Diamondduste]

SNAP!

[blaze98]

what the?

[Selestina118]

=O Sayid BROKE THE RULES!!!!!!

[Z054J]

FAN
FREAKING
TASTIC!

[snakey]

holy cow

[DHARMA815]

WHOAH!!!!!!!!! AND WHOAH AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!

[wandering_aimlessly]

Ohhh... Kay.....

Now what??

[XxMayhemxX]

HAHAHAHAHA now what???

[twilightsun]

DUDE!!!

[Mechanical_Vader]

OMFG!!!!!!!

[brdmom]

Wow!!! Now what??

[Dew]

FAN
FREAKING
TASTIC!

:highfive:

[Diamondduste]

My guess:

Richard and company "heal" Ben.

[Selestina118]

I wonder what's happening to Ben in 2007 right about now?? . . . But if it always happened then Ben's probably fine . . . . nevermind. XD

[snakey]

it had to be done, I didnt think he'd do it tho, till I read spoilers.

[LostVoyeur]

That was my first thought.....let the healing begin

[sawyersgirl]

Wow!!! Now what??

Now...we wait another week.

[Dombrowski]

He's not dead. Remember Michael and the failed suicide attempts? He may have a wicked bruise but he's not dead.

[wandering_aimlessly]

So did everything just change or is Ben only suffering a massive sucking chest wound?

And is this the reason he didn't recognize Sayid? Now my head really hurts.

[Z054J]

Well, we know the kid ain't stayin dead, but I still think it was a savage bit of writing.

[brdmom]

But if they aren't supposed to change time, hasn't Juliet already done that by helping Ethan be born?
This time travel thing hurts my head!

[ozchick]

I don't say this a whole lot but WOW! I mean the end of that was just... WOW!

Great lines: "Maybe I should use half a dropper...oops"
"Are you sure we're going to Guam?"

I feel like Truff, my head has exploded and I can't even begin to think how this will affect the timeline.

[Diamondduste]

I wonder what's happening to Ben in 2007 right about now?? . . . But if it always happened then Ben's probably fine . . . . nevermind. XD

Exactly.

Ben in 2007 has already been shot.

[tigros999]

OK how is this even possible!!!

[twilightsun]

In this week's: Blogging While Watching LOST: He’s Our You (http://unchartedisland.com/blogging-while-watching-lost-hes-our-you/517/) Sayid's tripping on acid, he almost scores with a hot bounty hunter, and then he starts to wax philosophical like John Locke. Paradox?

Seriously. How is this going to play out next week? That was freaking AWESOME! I've been a bit let down these past few weeks, but I'm back into it, baby!

[Dew]

Ben is frakking probably wearing Kevlar. :mad:

[pilot3033]

Sayid! You should be the FIRST one to know "3 in the head, you know they're dead!" One shot to the chest? 'Tis but a flesh wound!

[Z-Lost-Z]

Anyone else notice that lil Ben was still breathing as Sayid ran into the jungle? It seemed pretty clear... kid ain't dead yet. So the island will heal him, do something miraculous like it did with Jon Locke's kidney space.

Just a thought.

[Vitriol]

William Sanderson is the man. I figured he was about due to pop up on this show.

[sawyersgirl]

So did everything just change or is Ben only suffering a massive sucking chest wound?

And is this the reason he didn't recognize Sayid? Now my head really hurts.
I really starting to think that Ben DID recognize them all along. Thinking back to the "list" he had of the people who traveled back in time and his freak out in the car talking about how they had no idea what he had done to "protect" them. He always has a plan because he had 30 years to plan for their return.

[wandering_aimlessly]

Ben must be more twisted than we ever thought to help and "befriend" the man that he knew shot him when he was a young boy.

[tigros999]

Well the island is not done with Ben so he will survive like lock did when Ben shot him

[Diamondduste]

OK how is this even possible!!!

Because adult Ben has already been shot. He was shot as a child by Sayid... which goes to show you why Sayid was always important to Ben. Ben knew he had "it" in him.

[twilightsun]

In this week's: Blogging While Watching LOST: He’s Our You (http://unchartedisland.com/blogging-while-watching-lost-hes-our-you/517/)Sayid's tripping on acid, he almost scores with a hot bounty hunter, and then he starts to wax philosophical like John Locke. Paradox?

Seriously. How is this going to play out next week? That was freaking AWESOME! I've been a bit let down these past few weeks, but I'm back into it, baby!

[Chinamom]

S5E10 “He’s Our You”

BIG QUESTIONS:
I still don’t understand how Widmore is/was a threat to the ones left behind.
Still don’t know how Ben found Sayid in Santo Domingo, or how Sayid found Ben in LA
Who is in Ann Arbor? The…couple who started Dharma, what are their names, having a brain cramp?
Why are the hostiles a threat to the children?
The bounty hunter, does she work for Ben or not?
YOUNG BEN DEAD! NOW WHAT?!?! What happens to the timeline? Ow, ow, ow, major brain implosion along with Truff!!

QUESTIONS ANSWERED:
Ben has known Richard since he was a child
Andropov and the other people Sayid killed were from Widmore and a threat to the Losties (I must have missed this along the way—I had no idea why Sayid was killing for Ben)
Sayid came back to the island to take Ben with him to his people. Hmmm…
Sayid didn’t know he was on THE flight

QUESTIONS SOMEONE SHOULD HAVE ASKED:
.Sayid to young Ben: Why did you want to run away?
Sayid to Young Ben…um, why are you using past tense when you say you hated your dad?

BEHIND THE EP TITLE:
Oldham is their Sayid

LOST LOCATIONS:
Tikrit
Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic
Ann Arbor
Guam

LOST FOOD:
Chicken salad sandwich (LOL, right after the chicken-wringing scene)
Ham
Waffles

NUMBERS:
4 years ago Ben ran away
E608PC Ben’s license plate
Sawyer has lived 3 years in the 70s
$120 drink
Ajira 316
100 days Sayid was on the island the first time
3 years no burning buses

MUSIC:
“I Can’t Give You Anything But Love, Baby” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Can't_Give_You_Anything_But_Love
(Great theme for a torturer)

MORE THAN A COINCIDENCE:
Sayid ends up on the same plane

PARALLEL LINES/SCENES:
Horace holding the clippers seemingly to torture Sayid/Sayid’s torture scenes

FAVORITE LINES:
Hurley’s “they live together as in not roommates” LOL!

FAVORITE SCENES
Horace threatening Sayid (expert torturer) with “the next level”

CULTURAL REFERENCES:
“A Special Reality” (did I get it right?) book young Ben gave Sayid

NICKNAMES:
I don’t think there were any?

GREAT CINEMATOGRAPHY:
Burning van scene was well done

OUCH:
Boot to Sayid’s head, yikes

SERIOUSLY CREEPY:
Ben is just as conniving/convincing as a child as he becomes as an adult, yeesh.
Young Ben “hatED” (past tense) his dad. Yikes.

MINOR QUESTIONS:
Why does Dharma only serve prisoners a plain sandwich? No chips, cookies, fruit, drink?
So do we think young Ben set the bus on fire?

JUST CAN’T WRAP MY HEAD AROUND THIS:
The Others (Dharma) dressed in the primitive clothes way back—they were NOT the same group as Richard’s hostiles, right? But were they trying to dress like them for some reason? And now they’re all in jumpsuits? Was it all just a show for the Losties? Help.

SUMMARY: OH MY!! Did not see that coming at all! GO SAYID!!!
I LOVED IT!!!

[AgonyAnne]

I dunno -- when he entered the holding area wearing a hood, I kinda figured he was toast. Hoods=Death, usually (Charlie wore one and still-alive-Miles*).

What an ending! 42 minutes is getting shorter and shorter to be a satisfying dose of Lost. I want it again (but didn't set my machine so have to wait until online @ dawn)...


* ETA -- That should be: Still-alive-for-now-Miles

[KrispyKreme1953]

Someone he is kind to in 2004 will probably take care of him in 1977 and nurse him back to health and his kindness later is his way of paying them back.

Likewise, his treatment in 2004 of 1977 characters who were mean to him, or tried to kill him!

[Akuma]

I think Juliet saves young Ben. It'd explain Ben's facination/obsession with her,and the "you look just like her" comment from Goodman's wife.

Just sayin'...

[Randy Nations]

I really starting to think that Ben DID recognize them all along. Thinking back to the "list" he had of the people who traveled back in time and his freak out in the car talking about how they had no idea what he had done to "protect" them. He always has a plan because he had 30 years to plan for their return.

Very interesting thinking...I'm going to have to ponder this more. But I like it.

[Diamondduste]

Someone he is kind to in 2004 will probably take care of him in 1977 and nurse him back to health and his kindness later is his way of paying them back.

Likewise, his treatment in 2004 of 1977 characters who were mean to him, or tried to kill him!

If that's the case, Hurley would be the logical choice.

Edit - Or Juliet as others have said.

[tigros999]

Jack you're up. Time to save Ben again.

[J_C]

So I guess they are going to pursue the hypothetical "If you could go back in time to kill Hitler..."

TPTB really have no problem with killing shooting kids.

[Dombrowski]

I really want Radzinsky dead. What an annoying little <snip>. Who ya gonna call up in Ann Arbor in 1977? Bo Shembechler?

[Diamondduste]

I really want Radzinsky dead. What an annoying little <snip>. Who ya gonna call in up in Ann Arbor in 1977? Bo Shembechler?

The DeGroots... founders of DHARMA.

[twilightsun]

I really starting to think that Ben DID recognize them all along. Thinking back to the "list" he had of the people who traveled back in time and his freak out in the car talking about how they had no idea what he had done to "protect" them. He always has a plan because he had 30 years to plan for their return.
Now we're all going to be going back to see who was on the list...

[Dombrowski]

The DeGroots... founders of DHARMA.

I know that. I was joking.

[KrispyKreme1953]

I really want Radzinsky dead. What an annoying little <snip>. Who ya gonna call up in Ann Arbor in 1977? Bo Shembechler?

Just give him a weapon and wait a few years...

[brdmom]

Someone he is kind to in 2004 will probably take care of him in 1977 and nurse him back to health and his kindness later is his way of paying them back.

Likewise, his treatment in 2004 of 1977 characters who were mean to him, or tried to kill him!

I don't think Ben is ever "kind" to anyone. His primary objective always is himself and whatever the heck his agenda is...he treats people in whatever way will best get him to the results he wants.

[Diamondduste]

Now we're all going to be going back to see who was on the list...

If I remember right:

Sawyer, Jack, and Kate were taken to the Hydra island, and Hurley was captured but let go to tell everyone else to stay away.

[mzsandeestar]

I didn't like it. Sayid who can kill strong men with his feet is taken down by a woman while taking off her boot...........flashback to his youth just to see that he killed a chicken..........coincidentally he wound up on 316. He is hunted by the family of a person he killed for Ben but his captor never heard of Ben.
Kate is about to tell Sawyer why she came back.........oops there's a fire..........is this LOST or a soap opera.
Worst episode of the season .

[Diamondduste]

I don't think Ben is ever "kind" to anyone. His primary objective always is himself and whatever the heck his agenda is...he treats people in whatever way will best get him to the results he wants.

Annie... he was kind to Annie.

And I imagine we might be seeing her during Ben's recovery.

[tigros999]

I didn't like it. Sayid who can kill strong men with his feet is taken down by a woman while taking off her boot............

Sayid is a sucker for a pretty face as has been proven time and time again.

[sawyersgirl]

Now we're all going to be going back to see who was on the list...

I know it was Kate, Jack Sawyer (on the d]sub dock with bags over their heads), Hurley was on the list, but they let him go back. I just can't remember if Sayid was on the list or not...

[twilightsun]

If I remember right:

Sawyer, Jack, and Kate were taken to the Hydra island, and Hurley was captured but let go to tell everyone else to stay away.

That was Michael's list. Ben had a different list that Jacob supposedly gave him.

[AceOfDiamonds]

Hahaha, Sayid. You just made a huge mistake.

Shock factor aside, I strongly suspect that this episode isn't about Sayid rebelling against fate. The ultimate irony of this episode is that Sayid directly contributes to the very plight he's trying so desperately to avoid. By shooting Ben, Sayid has ensured that everything that happens in 'the future' (S1 through S4) will happen just as they did.

In other words: Ben was a nice kid, then Sayid messed up his life. It's going to be Sayid's fault that Ben becomes the twisted, sinister man he is. Sayid is going to be responsible for the very atrocities he thought he was sent to prevent.

After all, Desmond's the only 'special' one here -- he's the only one who can actually defy the pre-established timeline.

[MrNovember]

I didn't like it. Sayid who can kill strong men with his feet is taken down by a woman while taking off her boot...........flashback to his youth just to see that he killed a chicken..........coincidentally he wound up on 316. He is hunted by the family of a person he killed for Ben but his captor never heard of Ben.
Kate is about to tell Sawyer why she came back.........oops there's a fire..........is this LOST or a soap opera.
Worst episode of the season .

1) He's drunk.
2) The scene was the reinforce that Sayid was willing to be a killer to protect others from harm or having to do the harm.
3) It's highly unlikely it was a coincidence, and very likely that Widmore hired her under the guise of the murdered man's family.
4) Agreed. But the soap opera elements are hardly new.

[greenback44]

So I guess they are going to pursue the hypothetical "If you could go back in time to kill Hitler..."

TPTB really have no problem with killing kids.
They've got no qualms about killing anybody. I guess you could say they have a little bit of Ben in them. That's my biggest complaint about Lost, the huge heapings of violence.

[AgonyAnne]

S5E10 “He’s Our You”

BIG QUESTIONS:
Still don’t know how Ben found Sayid in Santo Domingo, or how Sayid found Ben in LA
Who is in Ann Arbor? The…couple who started Dharma, what are their names, having a brain cramp?

QUESTIONS ANSWERED:
Ben has known Richard since he was a child
Andropov and the other people Sayid killed were from Widmore and a threat to the Losties (I must have missed this along the way—I had no idea why Sayid was killing for Ben)

JUST CAN’T WRAP MY HEAD AROUND THIS:
The Others (Dharma) dressed in the primitive clothes way back—they were NOT the same group as Richard’s hostiles, right? But were they trying to dress like them for some reason? And now they’re all in jumpsuits? Was it all just a show for the Losties? Help.


I can fill in a few details but mostly just add question marks:

BQ:
- Abaddon found Sayid in Santa Domingo and Locke visited Sayid there; we saw Ben tailing them in NYC when visiting Walt. I'm sure that's how he knew where to find everybody (ntm, prob has his own sources, as per always).
- De Groots, we assume, are still in Ann Arbor, MI

QA:
- We already knew Ben met Richard when he was about 8; we saw that meeting in the jungle.
-Only true if you believe Ben (which I do not).

JCWMHAT:
- I don't think the DI ever dressed down like that -- those have always been the Others/Hostiles. The DI seem to wear jumpsuits all the way (and sometimes casual hippy gear off-hours).

[SimonO]

I didn't like it. Sayid who can kill strong men with his feet is taken down by a woman while taking off her boot...........flashback to his youth just to see that he killed a chicken..........coincidentally he wound up on 316. He is hunted by the family of a person he killed for Ben but his captor never heard of Ben.
Kate is about to tell Sawyer why she came back.........oops there's a fire..........is this LOST or a soap opera.
Worst episode of the season . I would have to agree. It was the most pointless and predictable episode out of the last 20. We all know Richard [or someone anyway] is about to walk out of the jungle, heal Ben, then train him to infiltrate the others. This episode also made no sense in the grand scheme of Sayid's character. It was a bit of a filler episode, to put it mildly.

[Akuma]

I didn't like it. Sayid who can kill strong men with his feet is taken down by a woman while taking off her boot...........flashback to his youth just to see that he killed a chicken..........coincidentally he wound up on 316. He is hunted by the family of a person he killed for Ben but his captor never heard of Ben.
Kate is about to tell Sawyer why she came back.........oops there's a fire..........is this LOST or a soap opera.
Worst episode of the season .

He jumped the guy he killed with his feet from behind. Sayid also got his ass handed to him on the beach by Sawyer,led his Rambo-like invasion of NOTHING at the end of Season 2,masterminded losing the boat by leaving a pregnant woman to guard it,etc. With the exception of the fight in the kitchen after saving Hurley,I think Sayid's badassery is HIGHLY over-rated...

[twilightsun]

In other words: Ben was a nice kid, then Sayid messed up his life. It's going to be Sayid's fault that Ben becomes the twisted, sinister man he is. Sayid is going to be responsible for the very atrocities he thought he was sent to prevent.
It just goes to show... destiny is indeed a fickle bitch.

[AgonyAnne]

"John Locke's kidney space"


Great phrase!!! That oughtta be someone's subnic or someone should be the keeper of that relic...

[softmachine]

[QUOTE=Chinamom;2650889]S5E10 “He’s Our You”


CULTURAL REFERENCES:
“A Special Reality” (did I get it right?) book young Ben gave Sayid


minor correction:
it's "A Separate Reality" by Carlos Castaneda (http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan2.html).

[XxMayhemxX]

He's not dead. Remember Michael and the failed suicide attempts? He may have a wicked bruise but he's not dead.

Key phrase being, "failed suicide attempt" as in neither Locke, nor Micheal could commit suicide. But it doesnt stop other people from committing homicide...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mzsandeestar http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/images/002/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2650930#post2650930)
I didn't like it. Sayid who can kill strong men with his feet is taken down by a woman while taking off her boot...........flashback to his youth just to see that he killed a chicken..........coincidentally he wound up on 316. He is hunted by the family of a person he killed for Ben but his captor never heard of Ben.
Kate is about to tell Sawyer why she came back.........oops there's a fire..........is this LOST or a soap opera.
Worst episode of the season .


He jumped the guy he killed with his feet from behind. Sayid also got his ass handed to him on the beach by Sawyer,led his Rambo-like invasion of NOTHING at the end of Season 2,masterminded losing the boat by leaving a pregnant woman to guard it,etc. With the exception of the fight in the kitchen after saving Hurley,I think Sayid's badassery is HIGHLY over-rated...exactly.. remember, Sayid is a badass soldier type, but he is first a communications/technology officer. His specialty was torture, but any sick coward can torture, especially when the other person is restrained.

[swelsh]

:)I thought it was a fast moving episode and enjoyed it. Needs a re-watch though!

Did anyone else wonder about the flaming van? Did the Others send it to kidnap Ethan? I thought it looked like Amy running out of the burning house.

Definetly need to go re-watch!

[pilot3033]

It just goes to show... destiny is indeed a fickle bitch.

That it is. I'm in the same camp at AoD. But, frankly, I think Ben was destined to be a dick from the beginning. If it wasn't for rage for being dragged to the island and beaten senseless by his father, then it was for being shot by Sayid. There was really no way around it.

Unless of course Sayid took the time to do the job right. :\

The initial shock is wearing down now, so its a tad easier to see. :)

Ben will be back, everything falls into place, etc etc. If Ben was REALLY dead right now, then THAT would be a plot twist.

[Billy Shears]

*KEEPER OF ILANNA'S BOOTS* :D
She really shined tonight, eh?
I like her.

[truffula]

My computer crapped out on me tonight so I barely got to watch Lost cause I was so busy dealing with this problem. I saw it, but I'm sorry to say I took no notes. :(

From what I saw, it was an okay episode. I'm not too interested in the love quadrangle, and Sayid's past wasn't enough to tear me away from trying to solve my internet problems. I think little Ben is just fine, the Island will heal him and that will be the catalyst that proves to Richard that little Ben is indeed special and should join them. Or something like that. I dunno, I'm just glad I'm back on the net. :)

Next week, I'll be back in form, as long as my computer doesn't die between now and then. :p

[twilightsun]

Key phrase being, "failed suicide attempt" as in neither Locke, nor Micheal could commit suicide. But it doesnt stop other people from committing homicide...
It does stop people from committing homicide. Remember when Keamy tried to kill Michael on the freighter?

[wandering_aimlessly]

I know that. I was joking.
But the Bo Shembechler comment was totally hilarious

[tigros999]

Speaking of Daniel, have we seen him?

We saw him heading for the donkey wheel a few episodes back when the flashes first started. He's probably in Tunisia and from there who knows.

[Dombrowski]

Key phrase being, "failed suicide attempt" as in neither Locke, nor Micheal could commit suicide. But it doesnt stop other people from committing homicide...

But doesn't young Ben have lives to manipulate and an island to move in the future? I don't think Michael would have died if someone shot him. the island simply won't allow it.

[Dombrowski]

*KEEPER OF ILANNA'S BOOTS* :D
She really shined tonight, eh?
I like her.

Darn tootin! She is a total hottie!

[carmela]

Sayid is a sucker for a pretty face as has been proven time and time again.

Yes, all the time. I thought it was all very consistent with what we have seen about Sayid and very believeable.

Shock factor aside, I strongly suspect that this episode isn't about Sayid rebelling against fate. The ultimate irony of this episode is that Sayid directly contributes to the very plight he's trying so desperately to avoid. By shooting Ben, Sayid has ensured that everything that happens in 'the future' (S1 through S4) will happen just as they did.

Absolutely - that is the true shock of all of this. This was much more of a character driven episode than it appears. It shows how cold Sayid has become. There is nowhere for him to go - there is no redemption for him now.

An excellent episode.

[Dombrowski]

But the Bo Shembechler comment was totally hilarious

Thanks.

[XxMayhemxX]

It does stop people from committing homicide. Remember when Keamy tried to kill Michael on the freighter?

and if im correct... in tonights episode, Sayids gun DID fire...

the island didn't stop it. it let it happen.. for whatever reason...

now whos to say Richard or Smokey doesnt bring young Ben back to life... we dont know that...could happen...

but the fact is, Sayids gun didn't pull a Keamy gun

[justanotherlostfan]

But the Bo Shembechler comment was totally hilarious

But if it had been Columbus and Woody Hayes then I would understand Dharma being scared....Woody would of punched the lot of them.

[Vincent_Madison]

Jack you're up. Time to save Ben again.

I think you are right. And maybe why Ben wants Jack to save him the second time when he has the tumor...

[twilightsun]

and if im correct... in tonights episode, Sayids gun DID fire...
Yes, but that doesn't mean that the island is going to let little Ben die.

[tigros999]

and if im correct... in tonights episode, Sayids gun DID fire...

So did Ben's. But Locke was still able to throw a knife into Naomi's back (after seeing Walt)

[tigros999]

I think you are right. And maybe why Ben wants Jack to save him the second time when he has the tumor...

That and the fact he was a Neurosurgeon/Spine surgeon and Ben had a grapefruit on his vertebral body

[XxMayhemxX]

Yes, but that doesn't mean that the island is going to let little Ben die.

true... perhaps..
but i didn't even say that..

Originally Posted by Dombrowski http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/images/002/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2650862#post2650862)
He's not dead. Remember Michael and the failed suicide attempts? He may have a wicked bruise but he's not dead.

Originally Posted by XxMayhemxX http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/images/002/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2650862#post2650862)
Key phrase being, "failed suicide attempt" as in neither Locke, nor Micheal could commit suicide. But it doesnt stop other people from committing homicide... just commenting on it's a lil diff then Micheal or island powers... lets just simply call it.. hes shot.. and now he will either die.. or someone will save him...

the island didn't stop it... now will the island let it stay this way... who knows... some of our characters' Will may be stronger then the island...

[Lily23]

So, Little Ben's not dead, Juliet will nurse him back to health, and Sayid has played his roll in the unchangeable timeline. (or so I think)

One thing I didn't get: We had seen Sayid working as an assassin for Ben, then later we saw Sayid shoot the guys watching hurley at the mental hospital, then tell Hurley not to trust Ben and do the opposite of what he says. I was under the impression that something specific must have happened between Ben and Sayid to cause Sayid's change of attitude to Ben, and I thought there would be a "reveal" in the sayid-centric storyline tonight. I thought maybe Ben had lied to him about who killed Sayid's wife or something, but there was nothing. What'd I miss?

[Akuma]

So, Little Ben's not dead, Juliet will nurse him back to health, and Sayid has played his roll in the unchangeable timeline. (or so I think)

One thing I didn't get: We had seen Sayid working as an assassin for Ben, then later we saw Sayid shoot the guys watching hurley at the mental hospital, then tell Hurley not to trust Ben and do the opposite of what he says. I was under the impression that something specific must have happened between Ben and Sayid to cause Sayid's change of attitude to Ben, and I thought there would be a "reveal" in the sayid-centric storyline tonight. I thought maybe Ben had lied to him about who killed Sayid's wife or something, but there was nothing. What'd I miss?

I think Sayid simply hates who he's become,and blames Ben for "making him into that person". He clearly had serious regrets about what he'd done when he was talking to Illana on the plane. maybe he felt he'd "gone too far down that road to turn back",and didn't want to see Hurley make the same mistake?

[Homer Noodleman]

Eh, so much for the single time line folks. Hopefully there won't be a heap of editing in those threads tonight.

As for Sawyer -- what an idiot. Juliet grasped the significance of the return of the Oceanic folks, he thought he could wish it away. Look what a mess he made by not coming clean when they were found.

Interesting -- the people off the island were brought back under the guise that the people on the island were in peril. They weren't, but they are now. Feh, Desmond tried to warn them.

Considering my endless banging on about the children being central to the story, Ben laying face down in the mud was an interesting twist. The monster kids must be saved, even if their name is Ben.

[gailew00]

Who is Oldhem (or whoever)? Do we know him from somewhere?

[Lily23]

I think Sayid simply hates who he's become,and blames Ben for "making him into that person". He clearly had serious regrets about what he'd done when he was talking to Illana on the plane. maybe he felt he'd "gone too far down that road to turn back",and didn't want to see Hurley make the same mistake?


OK, so, it wasn't any one thing that happened that made Sayid switch from working for Ben to telling Ben "if I see you again, it'll be bad for both of us." Just a gradual subsiding of anger over his wife's death, trying to be a better person, and a rising realization that Ben has probably been manipulating him?

[tigros999]

I think Sayid simply hates who he's become,and blames Ben for "making him into that person". He clearly had serious regrets about what he'd done when he was talking to Illana on the plane. maybe he felt he'd "gone too far down that road to turn back",and didn't want to see Hurley make the same mistake?

Any and everyone who ever deals with Ben realizes that everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie. Notice he didn't put up an argument when Eloise Hawking called him out on his pathological lying. He even tried to get Sayid to kill again by planting the idea that Locke was murdered (conveniently leaving out his role in that outcome)
Ben the Master Manipulator

[Surlymermaid]

Who is Oldhem (or whoever)? Do we know him from somewhere?
He was in Bladerunner - the name of the character escapes me, but he was the guy who wasn't allowed 'off-world' and built replicants (and let the replicant Priss played by Daryl Hannah live with him).

[SimonO]

Sayid almost seemed pissed off that he had nobody else to kill. He was almost salivating at the thought of another kill in his near future. They showed nothing else on LOST this evening to suggest that the above is the only reason Sayid is mad at Ben. Sayid wanted to kill those folks, then keep killing.

[Akuma]

OK, so, it wasn't any one thing that happened that made Sayid switch from working for Ben to telling Ben "if I see you again, it'll be bad for both of us." Just a gradual subsiding of anger over his wife's death, trying to be a better person, and a rising realization that Ben has probably been manipulating him?

Did you see the scene where Ben simply told Sayid he was done? I think Sayid definately felt abandoned. He'd burried himself in revenge,and Ben took that away in one brief statement.

[twilightsun]

Sayid almost seemed pissed off that he had nobody else to kill. He was almost salivating at the thought of another kill in his near future. They showed nothing else on LOST this evening to suggest that the above is the only reason Sayid is mad at Ben. Sayid wanted to kill those folks, then keep killing.
He didn't feel he had fulfilled his vengeance yet for Nadia's murder. If he was done, he should've felt better, right? That's me being all psychological about it.

[MrsJamesFord]

"JUST CAN’T WRAP MY HEAD AROUND THIS:
The Others (Dharma) dressed in the primitive clothes way back—they were NOT the same group as Richard’s hostiles, right? But were they trying to dress like them for some reason? And now they’re all in jumpsuits? Was it all just a show for the Losties? Help."

"JCWMHAT:
- I don't think the DI ever dressed down like that -- those have always been the Others/Hostiles. The DI seem to wear jumpsuits all the way (and sometimes casual hippy gear off-hours)."


Okay, here's what I recall, maybe what you're referring to - Ben and his group were the ones that dressed as the Hostiles to terrorize the Losties (long after Ben knocked off most of the Dharma folk in the purge). Remember when the Losties discovered the "costumes" in a locker when they infiltrated one of the Others' buildings?

[J_C]

I really want Radzinsky dead. What an annoying little <snip>. Who ya gonna call up in Ann Arbor in 1977? Bo Shembechler?
Rather than white and blue I'm surprised the DHARMA colors aren't maize and blue.

Who is Oldhem (or whoever)? Do we know him from somewhere?
Oldham (played by William Sanderson). E.B. Farnum!!! (Deadwood)

[AceOfDiamonds]

Eh, so much for the single time line folks. Hopefully there won't be a heap of editing in those threads tonight.


I disagree. Whatever happened, happened. Sayid shooting Ben always happened; when we first met adult Ben in S2, he remembered having met Sayid as a child, and he remembered (and certainly has a scar to show for it) being shot by him.

Sayid thinks he is defying against fate, but he's not special like Desmond. He can't alter the preconceived timeline. He can't rebel against fate -- in fact, everything Sayid has done is only ensuring that the single timeline he resents (with evil Ben pulling all the strings) will ultimately come to fruition. Only Desmond (and Daniel, through interaction with Desmond) has been shown to utilize the ability to truly change the past.

[Homer Noodleman]

AceOfDiamonds,

Yea, I based that on Ben using the past tense when he referred to his father, but it has since occurred to me he probably crashed the van into the house he thought his father was in, but Kate helped pull them out. So it is probably up in the air still.

Regardless, I think adult Ben's actions make it clear that he thinks he can change the past (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2650643#post2650643). Same goes for Mrs. Hawkings and her endless attempt to get people to do things.

[Warp_Burton]

Yes, I believe Ben circa 2007 is trying to change the past by putting as many of the O6 as possible on Ajira 316. He's spent all this time leading them around by their noses (especially Jack) that this storyline looks like it's about to pay off. Remember when Ben had his tumor: he didn't want Jack to operate on him he wanted Jack to WANT to operate on him. That sentence and it's motivation has been in my craw for awhile, bet it gets out soon...

[casual-viewer]

Who is Oldhem (or whoever)? Do we know him from somewhere?

My husband recognized him as Larry from the Neuhart show. As in Larry, "my brother Darrell and my other brother Darrell." I was pretty impressed since we were 10 the last time that show was on.

[Akuma]

I think Ben's trying to help the "course correction" take place. I think something the Dharmaites did (possibly the Incident) majorly screwed up a major flow of events,and Ben is workintg to get things back to where they should have been.

[J_C]

Why would Jin not let Sayid go?! Pffft.

Now one would think that should Ben survive the shooting that his attitude towards the Hostiles would turn negative. That still won't change his attitude towards his dad.
So now he hates everybody, and because of his seeming 'miraculous' recovery he is now going to become the mega 'enchanted geek on a rampage' lesser geeks have only dreamed of*.
Maybe Ben's dead. In which case the first four seasons were for nothing, mystery-wise. I think not. I think the truce is dead, though.

Radzinsky is not coming across as the suicidal type.
Can't believe the stereotype they are making out of Sayid. I guess it could be argued they did the same with Michael too.

So which building got hit by the flaming bus?


*Perfect example of this is the parallel character in McCammon's Swan Song. That's the book King's The Stand may have been 'inspired' by.

[grumpy]

PARALLEL LINES/SCENES:
Horace holding the clippers seemingly to torture Sayid/Sayid’s torture scenes


More parallel scenes:

Sayid as a child killing the chicken his brother was ordered to kill/Eko as a child shooting the man his brother was ordered to kill

Sayid asking Sawyer to help him escape and Sawyer refusing/Sayid helping Nadia escape when she was his prisoner

Sayid strapped to a tree on the island to be "tortured" because he refused to give information/Sawyer strapped to a tree on the island and being tortured by Sayid because he refused to give information (about the inhaler, if I recall correctly)

[hanewats]

AceOfDiamonds,

Yea, I based that on Ben using the past tense when he referred to his father, but it has since occurred to me he probably crashed the van into the house he thought his father was in, but Kate helped pull them out. So it is probably up in the air still.


I think this is correct and solves the issue of why Ben said "I hated him" when referring to his dad. He thought he was killing him with the burning bus but no such luck. Another reason for him to hate the Losties.

Still think the Single Timeline/Whatever happened, happened explanation is the only thing that makes any sense. Ben is by no means dead, just angrier.

[joedeelee71]

I agree with everyone who says that Sayid just frakked everything up, and that Ben is still alive.

I also agree that Jack and Juliet will play a large role in saving Ben's life, which will impact grownup Ben's decisions.

My question is, where is Sayid going to go now? Is he going to try and join the Others? Or will he go rogue and crazy, like Danielle?

The one thing I don't get is why Richard had the long hair and dirty clothes ONCE. We have seen him in the 50's, 70's, and modern day, and he has always been very clean cut and sharply dressed. Was it just a costume, like Mr. Friendly wore? If so, what about his hair, was that just a wig?

Speaking of Mr. Friendly, we have now seen this large bearded man in 2 episodes. Once he was working on a car in the auto yard or whatever (and it looked like his name on the blue jumpsuit said "Tom"), and now he was in the voting on couches scene. Is that supposed to be a young Tom, and if so - that would make him either someone who was planted by the Others to infiltrate, or, like Ethan and Ben, he changes teams at some point.

I loved the Sayid truth serum scene, it reminded me of Hurley's confession to his mom last season.

I was glad to see Hurley tonight in his new job, and we saw everyone from the 06 and left-behinders, except for Daniel, who we know is "gone", and Miles...

Where is Miles? He should have been around tonight. Guess it cost too much money to pay him...

Speaking of missing people (aside from the obvious, Where the F is Rose and Bernard!!!), where is Patchy? If we were to believe that he was Dharma originally, shouldn't he have been in the Flame, or did he say he came over in the 80's, I don't quite remember.

Do you think that Smokie or Christian will show up in the 70's?

Last, but certainly NOT least...

WHERE IS VINCENT???!!!

[kublakhan6]

Hahaha, Sayid. You just made a huge mistake.

Shock factor aside, I strongly suspect that this episode isn't about Sayid rebelling against fate. The ultimate irony of this episode is that Sayid directly contributes to the very plight he's trying so desperately to avoid. By shooting Ben, Sayid has ensured that everything that happens in 'the future' (S1 through S4) will happen just as they did.

In other words: Ben was a nice kid, then Sayid messed up his life. It's going to be Sayid's fault that Ben becomes the twisted, sinister man he is. Sayid is going to be responsible for the very atrocities he thought he was sent to prevent.

After all, Desmond's the only 'special' one here -- he's the only one who can actually defy the pre-established timeline.

Its a fate loop: Sayid shoots Ben, Ben remembers Sayid, wants to punish him as much as he can, turns Sayid against his own ideals and values, Sayid then returns to the past, wants vengeance, shoots Ben.

[dharmainsider]

Was the actor playing "Oldham" the Dharma torturer the same who played Larry on Newhart? (as in I'm Larry, This is my brother Darryl. This is my other brother, Darryl.) Sure sounded like him.

[mustng0sally]

My husband recognized him as Larry from the Neuhart show. As in Larry, "my brother Darrell and my other brother Darrell." I was pretty impressed since we were 10 the last time that show was on.
Yeah. My mom picked up on that one quickly. I barely remember the show since I was so young when it aired. Kudos to your husband for remembering that!

Also, Illiana (sp?) was in the HBO series Rome. She was a brothel madam and a real hard-ace in that show. Kind of similar to her character tonight. ;)

Not really sure how I feel about tonight's episode. Very shocked at first when Ben was killed, but I'm pretty sure he'll be fine (physically, if not mentally). I did like Sayid going all loopy off of the Dharma veritaserum though.

[OneEyedJack]

It'd be interesting to go back and look at Ben's first appearances in the series. No one knew then, not even the show runners, that Sayid had shot Ben as a child.

[Dew]

*KEEPER OF ILANNA'S BOOTS* :D
She really shined tonight, eh?
I like her.

Well you better go to the Keeper thread and claim them before someone else does. :)

[aKa]

He was also on Deadwood -- D. B. Sweeney.

Don't know if his name's D.B. Sweeney -I think that's a different actor.

But this guy was definitely "Hi! I'm Larry. This is my brother Darrell and my 'Other' brother Daryl..."

From that old "Bob Newhart" show in the '80's.

I'm 32, so I know damn well a lot of you know just who I mean!

:D