EPISODE 15 ----- HOMECOMING [Archive]

truffula

08-14-05, 01:52 AM

This is another skipped episode. So, again, just so we're all up to speed....
The original thread can be found here:
p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm40.showMes sage?topicID=14.topic (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm40.showMes sage?topicID=14.topic)

Here are my notes from my first runthru of Season One for this episode:

LOST Season One - Episode 15 - Homecoming
Charlie Backstory #2

Claire returns, visibly bruised, has amnesia "who are you people?"
"I don't know any Ethan" says Claire
Remebers plane flying from Sydney as last thing (This could play into a theory I read about multiple Lostaways from different planes of time. Like 2 Claires, and this is why she doesn't remember them, cause this Claire has had a totally different month). Almost a month ago says Jack...
Day 28 lets say.
Jin shows concern to Sun for Claires baby.
QUESTIONS - did she escape? where did she come from? is it the same Claire? is she a clone?
Ethan had her for almost 2 weeks says Boone. (well I don't think you can fully clone someone in 2 weeks, so that one is out for me)
"Ethan's the Bad Guy" says Charlie to Claire

FB 1 - Tommy and Charlie want drugs, need a con for some money for drugs
Lucy Heatherton is Sucker in con.
Given Charlie's full name - Charlie Pace.

Sayid implies Claire may have been "sent" back to the camp, rather than escape
(Later in Exodus 2, we see Danielle "helping?" Claire escape)
Ethan knocks out Jin to confront Charlie (pretty strong whipping sounds, supports that Ethan is Really Strong) - a death is coming, he'll kill charlie last.
"I want you to bring her back" - ethan to charlie
Charlie wants to kill Ethan.
Jack/Locke conflict about hunting Ethan again/telling others about threat
Locke suggests Ethan may not have worked alone and this is a trap. I think he's right about the not working alone part.
"the others are avoiding me" - claire to charlie (probably referring to other survivors, but it's fun to be picky)
Charlie lies to Claire about Ethans threat

FB 2 - Charlie eyes up the target house/Sucker, the con is on

Kate suggests the use of the guns to stop Ethan, Jack says no.
Locke's trap - 4 around perimeter, fires at 20 meter intervals (YAY 420!)

FB 3 - Dinner with Sucker's Dad
The Protestant Reformation - Sucker's Dad's band, Liam just had his daughter (for timeline), its been 1 year since driveshaft played. Charlie took a job selling copiers, still trying to con, but there is still some good in him - i can feel it.
(Is Tommy another member of Driveshaft?)

Sayid, Locke, Boone, and redshirt Scott Jackson(ensign Ricky) on post, Vincent returns, but redshirt Scott is dead, Ethan came in from water, broke Scotts neck, arms, and all fingers (cruel, man, just cruel!!) DEATH #3
Day 29?
Scott Jackson - worked at internet co. in Santa Cruz, CA. (for CENSUS)

FB 4 - Charlie blows his first day of works, blows the con too.

Jack shows Locke the guns. Gives a gun to Locke, guesses he knows how to handle one of those - no response from Locke, just takes gun and looks cool.

FB 5 - Charlie pukes in copier, blows con completely.

Kate really wants to go on hunt for Ethan - she really wants In on everything
Storm is coming, they want Ethan alive (too bad)
Here comes Ethan, Jack drops gun in struggle, Ethan will not get Ko'd.
Charlie shoots Ethan 6 times for the kill - DEATH #4 (although Ethan wasnt listed on manifest, he shouldnt count as official DEATH)
THEORY - Ethan represented the Dark Side in Charlie.

FB 6 - Sucker to Charlie "You'll never take care of anybody"

Now Charlie feels responsible for Claire and Baby.
Claire remembers peanut butter.
LOST.

I'm gonna go back and watch it again tonight or tomorrow to post addendum notes, and to chime in on some discussions.

Til then, Discuss On.
Peace,
Truff

truffula

08-14-05, 04:59 PM

Just some quick addendum notes (there aren't many).
I can understand why they chose to skip this one.

- When Jin asks Sun if Claire's baby is ok, they exchange some really weird looks. I think there was something about a baby in Sun and Jin's past that we don't know about yet.

- Boone to Locke "we were out pretty deep, there's NOTHING out there"....cut to Locke with this look of "oh yeah, is that what you think?"

- in FB1: Lucy Heatherton lives with her DAD (another father reference)

- Locke after Charlie's attack "we don't want the OTHERS to get upset" (again, I know he's just talking bout the other survivors, but what if??)

- sunset before Ethan kills, Charlie says to Jack concerning Claire's safety "what about the mountain, there could be another cave?" Yes there could, why don't you LOOK and FIND OUT? (more disconnect)

- Ethan came in from the water to kill Scott - very possible he came in on Capt. Gorton's boat., possibly even WITH the Capt. Remember, when the Raftaways saw the blip they could barely hear the boat, then they flipped on their floodlights; so Gorton could've gotten Ethan close enough to wash up on the beach and kill the first person he found, swim back to the boat, and dissappear into the night.

That's all for now, Discuss On.
Peace,
Truff

Hodgepodge

08-16-05, 01:12 AM

truffula says:...- When Jin asks Sun if Claire's baby is ok, they exchange some really weird looks. I think there was something about a baby in Sun and Jin's past that we don't know about yet...When this episode first aired, I immediately thought something sinister. But I think you're right. Remember, when Jin offers Claire some of his sushi? I think that had something to do with Sun possibly loosing a baby.

truffula also says:...- Ethan came in from the water to kill Scott - very possible he came in on Capt. Gorton's boat., possibly even WITH the Capt. Remember, when the Raftaways saw the blip they could barely hear the boat, then they flipped on their floodlights; so Gorton could've gotten Ethan close enough to wash up on the beach and kill the first person he found, swim back to the boat, and dissappear into the night...You know Truffula, I've never taken Ethan coming from the water as gospel.

Why show Boone falling asleep if that had nothing to do with it. That's how I think Ethan got to Sceve. Another Boone foulup. I think there should've been a "Boone beating" involved.*Boy I miss those!*

truffula

08-16-05, 02:10 AM

First off, nice to have you back Hodge! Hope you had a nice vacation!!
You said:
Why show Boone falling asleep if that had nothing to do with it.

You may be right on with this one. I am so into wanting Locke to be a Good Guy, that I guess I took his assesment of the situation as truth, that Ethan had come in from the water.
But what you say makes too much sense. NOTHING they show is accidental. We were MEANT to see Boone falling asleep. The fact that Vincent shows up in this scene REALLY gets the ol noggin churnin too...
I had this CRAZY thought that Ethan and Vincent and Brian Porter were somehow connected.
A QUESTION: Do we ever see Vincent and Ethan together?
(not necessarily on-screen, but in the same scene)
All that comes from this idea is - That Dog Ain't Right. Again, we don't know enough for sure.

That's all for now.
Peace,
Truff

LoStMyMiNd

08-16-05, 04:25 AM

I never thought that Ethan came from the water to kill Sceve, I think it was the boat people that killed him

Hodgepodge

08-16-05, 04:38 PM

truffula says:...The fact that Vincent shows up in this scene REALLY gets the ol noggin churnin too...
I had this CRAZY thought that Ethan and Vincent and Brian Porter were somehow connected.
A QUESTION: Do we ever see Vincent and Ethan together?
(not necessarily on-screen, but in the same scene)
All that comes from this idea is - That Dog Ain't Right. Again, we don't know enough for sure.You know Truffula there's one thing that always sticks out in my mind about Pilot (Part 1). Yeah, Jack running onto the beach and finding chaos and disaster! Locke, wiggling his toes, sure! But honestly the first thing that comes to mind about that episode is seeing Vincent alone in the jungle, staring at the camera. I agree, "that dog ain't right." You ever wonder where Vincent disappeared to in Special when Walt was being attacked by that Polar bear? I have!

I've heard rumors, that Vincent's going to have his own episode. Sort of a low-angle camera look at what he sees. I wouldn't miss it for the World!

athywithak

08-16-05, 09:03 PM

What do you make of these two things:

Locke tells Boone "we're counting on you" and Boone falls asleep - was Locke counting on Boone to fall asleep? He's a pretty good judge of character.

When Boone wakes up things seem a little surreal.

K

Hodgepodge

08-16-05, 11:49 PM

athywithak asks:What do you make of these two things:

Locke tells Boone "we're counting on you" and Boone falls asleep - was Locke counting on Boone to fall asleep? He's a pretty good judge of character.

When Boone wakes up things seem a little surreal.K, I remember the discussion about those particular scenes when Homecoming initially aired. "Locke was just trying to build up Boone's self-esteem!" Again, I remember making the comment about wanting Boone involved in anything, wasn't a good idea.

I think it has a lot to do with how you feel about Locke. If you love him, he was building up Boone. If you hate him, maybe he had an ulterior motive.

And you're right about the scene where Boone wakes up. The camera did a zoom-in type thing. And who was with Boone when he awakes? That's right! Vincent. To reiterate Truffula's saying again. "That dog ain't right!"

truffula asks:A QUESTION: Do we ever see Vincent and Ethan together?I forgot this part of your former post Truffula. No! As far as I can remember, we never see the inference of a collaboration between Ethan and Vincent.

SpidermanHouston

08-16-05, 11:58 PM

And who was with Boone when he awakes? That's right! Vincent. To reiterate Truffula's saying again. "That dog ain't right!"
As I remember Vincent wasn't with Boone when he woke up. The trap goes off and wakes Boone up so Boone runs aimlessly and falls down and sees that it was Vincent that set off the trap. Not sure if that's what you meant. Im just being technical about the scene. But yeah something odd about the dog. Maybe Vincent was tagging along with Ethan or the others. Im sure Vincent knows more about the people in the island than the lostaways. The others or Ethan probably even fed him and treated him like a pet.

Hodgepodge

08-17-05, 12:09 AM

SpidermanHouston says:As I remember Vincent wasn't with Boone when he woke up. The trap goes off and wakes Boone up so Boone runs aimlessly and finds out that it was Vincent that set off the trap. Not sure if that's what you meant. Im just being technical about the scene. But yeah something odd about the dog. Maybe Vincent was tagging along with Ethan or the others. Im sure Vincent knows more about the people in the island than the lostaways. The others or Ethan probably even fed him and treated him like a pet.That's exactly what I meant SpidermanHouston. I guess I shoud've implied, was it an accident Vincent set off the trap after the fact.

But your idea that Vincent may know more about the island and its inhabitants than anyone makes sense. There hasn't been a lot of food for the 815s let alone him. He's probably very friendly with the "Others", Capt. Gorton, et al. Now that I think about it! When Danielle approached the camp, did Vincent bark? I can't remember. It'll be a good idea to watch him this next season.

truffula

08-17-05, 03:26 AM

I will be watching Vincent's every appearance in S2. (I really hope they do a FB segment from Vincent's POV)
But you got me thinkin...when I have the DVDs for runthru 2, I wanna make note of all of Vincent's scenes, and their relevance; as well as scenes where he is mysteriously absent.

The other thing that's really bothering me is: how did each of the Lostaways get their tickets for flight 815, and the possible connection of Vincent/Brian Porter/Ethan/Island/Psychic (I could go on and on)
I believe this is one of the keys to unlocking the mystery of LOST.
I'm too tired to go on. More Later.

Peace,
Truff

sir viver

08-17-05, 01:06 PM

The other thing that's really bothering me is: how did each of the Lostaways get their tickets for flight 815, and the possible connection of Vincent/Brian Porter/Ethan/Island/Psychic.

I've always been intrigued with the "why" and "how" that brought each lostaway to flight 815. There are a few more whose presence on flight 815 was influenced externally or boarded against their will:

Sawyer - ticket from Australian Police, we're not aware of his plans to leave Australia
Sayid - ticket from CIA, was supposed to leave the day before
Locke - ticket from Walkabout Tour after being excluded
Kate - ticket from Marshall after being captured
Claire, Mike and Walt as you mentioned

And then there's the rest of the group who bought tickets themselves. They all have different reasons and motivations which we are still debating, but they are alike in that they all planned to be on the flight, although I can think of two who may have boarded against their will:

Shannon - on the flight because Boone came to get her. Although I admit that she fully expected to leave with him when he showed up (she did call him) and there are hints that this was a scam Shannon did frequently.

Sun - she almost did not get on the flight and certainly didn't plan to. Did she have a change of heart at the last minute, or did she do what was best for Jin against her own will?

Both very debatable, but I think truffula has a point when pointing out that there may be a difference or a meaning to those who did not plan to be on flight 815 and those who purchased the tickets themselves.

Their dice were made of bones.

Celtic Ceilidh

08-17-05, 04:04 PM

Maybe Locke knew that Boone would fall asleep because he caused him to do so. If Locke knew how to make halucinegenic goo, he probably knew how to make some sort of sleeping potion too. I think Locke is orchestrating more events on the island than we're aware of.

I agree that we need to pay more attention to Vincent next season because something's not quite right with that dog.

Hodgepodge

08-17-05, 04:06 PM

truffula says:...But you got me thinkin...when I have the DVDs for runthru 2, I wanna make note of all of Vincent's scenes, and their relevance; as well as scenes where he is mysteriously absent...Excellent idea! I wished you'd thought of it when the rerun season started. If I'm not mistaken, there's a Vincent thread in the Redshirts forum where you could've posted your findings.

truffula also says:...The other thing that's really bothering me is: how did each of the Lostaways get their tickets for flight 815, and the possible connection of Vincent/Brian Porter/Ethan/Island/Psychic (I could go on and on)
I believe this is one of the keys to unlocking the mystery of LOST.This is part of the question I want answered most. What is the connection between the survivors. As Locke tells Jack. "...We were brought here for a purpose, for a reason, all of us. Each one of us was brought here for a reason." What in the HELL is that reason!

Sir viver, can you come up with any correlation between the ones that were forced onto flight 815, and the ones who bought tickets?

Also, remember once Shannon's boyfriend got his hands on the money from Boone, he dropped her like a hot potatoe. Not sure she planned on leaving Australia with her brother.

I think Sun realized she still loved Jin. Sun is a hopeless romantic. She waited for the right man to come along. A man she fell in love with. When she married Jin, in her mind, it was forever. I think she realized that in the airport.

thoughtform

08-17-05, 04:43 PM

allisnotlost

08-17-05, 04:55 PM

Boone's mother probally brought and paid for his ticket.

Hodgepodge

08-17-05, 05:10 PM

Celtic Ceilidh says:Maybe Locke knew that Boone would fall asleep because he caused him to do so. If Locke knew how to make halucinegenic goo, he probably knew how to make some sort of sleeping potion too. I think Locke is orchestrating more events on the island than we're aware of...I've only watched Homecoming once. It's not one of my favorite episodes. But I remember the scene where Boone falls asleep. Although I've never seen myself fall asleep, it was kind of strange. One minute, he's wide awake. And the next, he's out like a light. Maybe that is how you fall asleep. :o

CC, I wouldn't put it pass our resident druggist. But what does that say about Locke? He would definitely be complicit in the death of Sceve. That would also make us look again at Boone's death.

equinox

08-17-05, 06:39 PM

I wouldn't put it pass our resident druggist.
Resident druggist? Sun, Kate, Jack, Sawyer? I know you meant Locke, but those others could qualify as well as potentially having the necessary knowledge and/or products and I wouldn't put it past them either.

One minute, he's wide awake. And the next, he's out like a light.
That could be strange or not. When I watched that scene, I was under the impression that those few seconds of viewing time were just supposed to "summarize" several hours of Boone's watch. After all, it would have been rather boring if they had just kept the camera in front of Ian and showed us his face during the whole hour of the show just to show Boone falling asleep in real time. We wouldn't have forgiven them. :p

sir viver

08-17-05, 06:58 PM

can you come up with any correlation between the ones that were forced onto flight 815, and the ones who bought tickets?

HodgePodge, it's not quite a corelation but I think I can make an argument that most of those who were forced on to flight 815 have:

1. Skills that are critical to their own survival as well as the other lostaways
2. Possess a gift that the Island/the Others find desirable

The core difference between the forced vs. purchased groups is that the forced group were needed on the island while the purchased group were not. IMO, Flight 815 crashed for a specific reason and there is something/someone who has the answers. I'm not speculating on the reasons why. Not yet.

CRITICAL ISLAND SKILLS
Locke - survivalist and strategist, can hunt, track, build etc., as well as manipulate others and do the Island's bidding.

Kate - crafty criminal with similar outdoor skills to Locke; her skills seem to be revealed at opportune times.

Sayid - communications officer, he can fix things and build stuff out of spare parts, reads maps

Michael - construction engineer, designed a water delivery system for the caves and built the raft. And there wouldn't be a Walt without him.

POTENTIAL ISLAND GIFTS
Claire - pregnant, and we know that she was the one who was really pushed hard to be on flight 815 for the sake of her baaaayyybeeeeeyyyy

Walt - he's somehow special (maybe), but other than that the only thing we know is that the Island/the Others want him for an unknown reason.

And then there's Sawyer who defies any categorization. He doesn't fit into this concept as well as those above, but he does serve as an antagonist - he's clashed with just about all of the lostaways - more to the point he stirs the pot and puts certain events in motion. Sayid may have never found Danielle if he did not torture Sawyer (who welcomed it out of spite) and later leave camp to do some soul-searching.

As for those who bought tickets, on first glance Jack would belong in the Critical Skills group because he is a doctor. But I wonder if that's what the Island/Others really wants . . . Perhaps this isn't about civilization but survival of the fittest. A doctor, especially one with a God complex, only gets in the way of nature taking its course.

I just wanted to add that Jin was only traveling because his father-in-law sent him. So he wasn't really choosing to be on that flight himself.

That makes sense to me thoughtform and I'll put him in the critical skills group because he has caught the bulk of the fish that has been sustaining the lostaways as well as help Michael with the raft.

Boone/Shannon are harder to classify. Boone will no longer play a role, and Shannon has yet to prove her worth to anyone. The only hint we have about her is that Boone referred to her as special in Hearts and Minds. There's that word again.

Of the rest of them – Hurley, Charlie and Sun – only Hurley and his numbers are obviously linked to the island. We’re told that the numbers are a major plot point but I don’t think Hurley, figuratively speaking of course, is bigger than the numbers. The numbers were around long before he used them.

Their dice were made of bones.

clayseason1

08-17-05, 09:03 PM

I just wanted to add that Jin was only traveling because his father-in-law sent him. So he wasn't really choosing to be on that flight himself. So to me it appears that the only people whose chose to be on that flight are:

Jack
Hurley
Charlie
Sun
Boone (possibly Shannon)

Charlie could have been manipulated to be on that flight. Think about it. Out of no where, someone approaches Charlie - a down on his luck, ex rock star and junkie - offers him a tour (but he has to bring Liam - who is in Australia). Liam refuses and Charlie goes without him. Perhaps whoever offered Charlie the tour also gave him the tickets to flight 815.

Jack could have been manipulated onto the flight as well. Why oh why did Christian choose Sydney, Australia as the likely place to drown his sorrows in?

Hodgepodge

08-17-05, 11:55 PM

austrasiel says:Resident druggist? Sun, Kate, Jack, Sawyer? I know you meant Locke, but those others could qualify as well as potentially having the necessary knowledge and/or products and I wouldn't put it past them either.Austrasiel, you can't drop this little tidbit and run off. Why would any of the above survivors conspire with Ethan? :eek

sir viver says:... then there's Sawyer who defies any categorization. He doesn't fit into this concept as well as those above, but he does serve as an antagonist - he's clashed with just about all of the lostaways - more to the point he stirs the pot and puts certain events in motion.I like your train of thought! But I think Sawyer can be added to your list with his skills as a scrounger.

clayseason1 says:Charlie could have been manipulated to be on that flight. Think about it. Out of no where, someone approaches Charlie - a down on his luck, ex rock star and junkie - offers him a tour (but he has to bring Liam - who is in Australia). Liam refuses and Charlie goes without him. Perhaps whoever offered Charlie the tour also gave him the tickets to flight 815.

Jack could have been manipulated onto the flight as well. Why oh why did Christian choose Sydney, Australia as the likely place to drown his sorrows in?So, when we get right down to it, Hurley's the only one that may've bought his round-trip ticket under no coerscion or collusion?

But that brings up a very important point. Fine, we got all the ones necessary on the plane. How do we get them to survive a plane crash?

clayseason1

08-18-05, 12:17 AM

But that brings up a very important point. Fine, we got all the ones necessary on the plane. How do we get them to survive a plane crash?

That's the big question! :p

Well, I'll start with an observation.

The seating seemed to be important.

Shannon and Boone were not allowed in first class, although there appeared to be available seats there.

Hurley had to relocate because the ticket agent said he had to buy two seats (Hurley didn't have to before).

equinox

08-18-05, 12:39 AM

you can't drop this little tidbit and run off. Why would any of the above survivors conspire with Ethan?

I just wanted to remind that they're at least on the same level as Locke when it comes to the "how". I wasn't suggesting anything specific about the "why". But in general terms, the motivation would be exactly the same as what some people seem to want to attribute to Locke: believing that they can get some advantage in return for their collaboration. At this point, I don't think that Boone was drugged by anyone, but if he was it could have been by any of those characters who had the means for doing it. Some of the characters seem to get infected by Jack's paranoid attitude of blaming Locke for everything. Next he's going to blame him for the rain, or something. As viewers, we should be more objective, knowing that the writers might have some surprises in store about any of the characters.

Hodgepodge

08-18-05, 12:45 AM

CS, I agree with you a 100%! And the idea that Hurley had to buy two seats, which caused him to move to the center of the plane seems sinister.

I believe with my heart of hearts that these particular 50 people were destined to survive flight 815. Just the idea of them surviving an airplane crash seems so far fetched. As you say, "that's the big question!"

sir viver

08-18-05, 04:49 PM

I like your train of thought! But I think Sawyer can be added to your list with his skills as a scrounger.

I considered scrounging to be his skill, but I declined to include it because it only benefits Sawyer's survival at the expense of everyone else. Be that as it may it's an island survival skill, and for sure Sawyer is a master at it - as good as Sayid with electronics and Locke with hunting.

I believe with my heart of hearts that these particular 50 people were destined to survive flight 815. Just the idea of them surviving an airplane crash seems so far fetched. As you say, "that's the big question!"

I've always thought it a bit strange that the plane broke apart into three sections. Very neat and tidy. And the plane didn't just crash it broke apart in mid-air intentionally and then the three pieces came falling down. Is that a common occurance in real plane crashes?

Their dice were made of bones.

Hodgepodge

08-18-05, 05:14 PM

sir viver says:I've always thought it a bit strange that the plane broke apart into three sections. Very neat and tidy. And the plane didn't just crash it broke apart in mid-air intentionally and then the three pieces came falling down. Is that a common occurance in real plane crashes?There's a group here at Lost-TV that feel what's ever controlling the island was going to settle on whoever survived flight 815. That our survivors weren't chosen. Now this maybe true. But I've always answered, 'suppose nobody survived?'

There's a thread over at T&S that proposes our 50 survivors are Unbreakable. You know like the movie of the same name. This is the only way I see 50 specific people surviving a plane crash. Sir Viver, not sure if you've read this theory? If you or anyone would like to, you can find it here (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sage?topicID=1127.topic).

clayseason1

08-18-05, 05:20 PM

But I've always answered, 'suppose nobody survived?'

Then the island revived those it wanted. :eek ...which may be the case :eek

Homer Noodleman

08-18-05, 05:41 PM

There is a seemingly throw away line in the pilot episode I've always wondered about. Jack says he blacked out as the plane broke up and Kate then says, "I didn't. I saw the whole thing. I knew that the tail was gone, but I couldn't bring myself to look back. And then the, the front of the plane broke off."

That's just before she talks about the column of smoke (dum-de-dum) in the valley where the cockpit ended up. It would seem that Kate was awake and alert through the whole plane crash which kinda torpedoes the brought "back to life" notion. BTW, I'm in the camp that who survived was random.

sir viver

08-18-05, 05:41 PM

There's a group here at Lost-TV that feel what's ever controlling the island was going to settle on whoever survived flight 815. That our survivors weren't chosen. Now this maybe true. But I've always answered, 'suppose nobody survived?'

How could anyone have survived without some kind of divine intervention?

How could such a large number of people survive a crash this horrific - not just a crash but a mid-air explosion?

How can you tumble to the ground in a free-falling ball of metal and flame and walk away with a few scratches?

The big questions indeed.

Plane crashes do not usually have many survivors. And most of the lostaways not only survived, as Locke said, but most had "superficial injuries."

IMO, the biggest mystery has to do with the plane crash and the survivors. The mysteries on the Island are not yet explained, but we know that this is not your ordinary palce. For me, that's enough for now and I trust the Hatch, Adam&Eve, Ethan, Black Rock, Others, Whispers, and Security System(s) will all be explained at some point during the series.

For me, who/what brought the plane down and how did they survive the crash, are more important than what's inside the Hatch, for instance.

There's a thread over at T&S that proposes our 50 survivors are Unbreakable.

I've read that one - big fan of the film - but it doesn't hold water for me because just about all of our lostaways have been hurt or injured at some time on the Island. And a few have died.

Thanks HodgePodge. A great discussion as always.

Their dice were made of bones.

Hodgepodge

08-18-05, 06:36 PM

And you know Sir Viver, TPTB have expressed this phenomenon through the characters. It's not only Locke that's pondered this, but Sayid as well. This dialog is taken from The Moth. "People survive plane crashes all the time", Kate tells him. "Not like this one. The tail section broke off while we were still in the air. Our section cart wheeled through the jungle and yet we escaped with nothing but a few scrapes. How do you explain that?" So, this is a question they have to answer!

clayseason1

08-18-05, 08:32 PM

Jack says he blacked out as the plane broke up and Kate then says, "I didn't. I saw the whole thing. I knew that the tail was gone, but I couldn't bring myself to look back. And then the, the front of the plane broke off."

Kate lies. :D

I don't remember seeing Kate until she walked out of the jungle rubbing her wrists and came upon Jack (sewing scene).

Was she even on the beach?

Lost In His Eyes

08-18-05, 09:47 PM

She might have been. Or she might have been in the jungle, like Jack was when he came to.

Homer Noodleman

08-18-05, 10:21 PM

She went into the jungle to take the handcuffs off. She should have hid them a little better though.

Hodgepodge

08-18-05, 11:05 PM

clayseason1 says:...I don't remember seeing Kate until she walked out of the jungle rubbing her wrists and came upon Jack (sewing scene)...

Homer Noodleman says:She went into the jungle to take the handcuffs off. She should have hid them a little better though.I definitely agree Homer Noodleman. That's why she was rubbing her wrists.

clayseason1

08-18-05, 11:59 PM

I definitely agree Homer Noodleman. That's why she was rubbing her wrists.

I agree too - having never been on the beach. How much time elapsed between the time Jack "woke up" - wandered out to the beach - helped with the chaos of the crash aftermath - then found himself a little spot to sew himself up?

Kate is just now wandering out of the jungle rubbing her wrists. Where was she all that time and what was she doing?

I think she "blacked - out" , then "came to" - removed the cuffs and wandered in upon Jack while rubbing her wrists.

equinox

08-19-05, 12:21 AM

clayseason1 wrote:
Kate is just now wandering out of the jungle rubbing her wrists. Where was she all that time and what was she doing?
1) Trying not to be noticed wearing handcuffs.
2) Looking for the marshal's suitcase.

clayseason1

08-19-05, 12:26 AM

1) Trying not to be noticed wearing handcuffs.

She got the key off the marshall when he was hit in the head on the plane and the oxygen masks fell down. Kate needed the key to undo the cuffs because she couldn't reach the masks until she did so.

So the cuffs came off before the plane smacked the island. :D

SpidermanHouston

08-19-05, 12:33 AM

So the cuffs came off before the plane smacked the island.
And that explains why the handcuffs were just laying in the middle of the jungle. They flew off the crashing plane.

equinox

08-19-05, 12:59 AM

clayseason1 wrote:
So the cuffs came off before the plane smacked the island.
Possible. However, what was urgent during the oxygen masks scene was to unlock one bracelet to be able to move freely and then grab the oxygen masks as soon as possible. In the circumstances, wasting crucial seconds to unlock the second bracelet should really not have been her priority over her immediate breathing and survival. First survive and nevermind the second bracelet, which could be dealt with later. But I don't know. Did we actually see her take the time to also unlock the second bracelet before she turned her attention to the oxygen masks, or only one of the bracelets? If only one, it's quite possible that she dropped the key in the process of taking hold of the masks and installing them, then after the crash she was stuck with the handcuffs dangling from her wrist, looked around and found some point of metal to pick the lock of the bracelet still on her wrist, worked on it for some time while walking around looking for the marshal's case, successfully picked the lock, dropped the handcuffs where Walt later found them, and stepped into the place where Jack was. Makes sense?

Homer Noodleman

08-19-05, 01:00 AM

The reason Kate can't reach up is because, not only does she have handcuffs on, but she has ankle manacles on and the cuffs and manacles have a chain connecting them. Once she got clear of the plane she still had to remove the manacles.

truffula

08-19-05, 01:01 AM

I'm actually hoping that with an increased budget, we might get to see more of the actual "crash" in the future.
We'll see.

Hodgepodge

08-19-05, 01:09 AM

You know guys, I can't remember now!

If the Marshal had her all bound up like that, he really had it in for her. That little story he told the flight agent was cute, but he really didn't like Kate. Or is that U.S. Marshal protocol!

clayseason1

08-19-05, 01:35 AM

And that explains why the handcuffs were just laying in the middle of the jungle. They flew off the crashing plane

....yeah with one of the cuffs attached to Kate's wrist. (I'll agree that one of the cuffs was still on her wrist as I can only remember her freeing one of the cuffs.)

Austrasiel - So you think that Kate was on plane on the beach after the crash - found something to pick the lock of the handcuffs - walked into the jungle - picked the lock - dropped the cuffs - and rubbing her wrists walks upon Jack?

I think there's too much time between the crash and the seamstress scene for that scenario.

Homer
The reason Kate can't reach up is because, not only does she have handcuffs on, but she has ankle manacles on and the cuffs and manacles have a chain connecting them.
Is that from a jungle queen dream you had? :D
Actually I can't remember if her ankles had manacles on them and/or if there was an additional chain..

What happened to her ankle bracelets? And how did she walk into the jungle to remove them without being noticed?
If she removed them in the plane, then why wouldn't she remove the hand cuffs at the same time?

SpidermanHouston

08-19-05, 01:48 AM

....yeah with one of the cuffs attached to Kate's wrist. (I'll agree that one of the cuffs was still on her wrist as I can only remember her freeing one of the cuffs.)
I just rewatched the scene on my DVR. It looks like she completely removes the handcuffs.

equinox

08-19-05, 01:57 AM

(I'll agree that one of the cuffs was still on her wrist as I can only remember her freeing one of the cuffs.)
Austrasiel - So you think that Kate was on plane on the beach after the crash - found something to pick the lock of the handcuffs - walked into the jungle - picked the lock - dropped the cuffs - and rubbing her wrists walks upon Jack?

Sounds good to me. She may not have Sawyer's talents for lock picking. It could have taken her some time. That's why she was still rubbing her wrist just then: she had just dropped the cuffs on the small trail before getting to Jack.
I think there's too much time between the crash and the seamstress scene for that scenario.
Well, that's all I can think of now. Anyway, I don't know. What else would you have her do?

SpidermanHouston

08-19-05, 01:59 AM

Nevermind, after closer inspection, the right cuff might be hidden under her jacket. Very inconclusive.

clayseason1

08-19-05, 02:16 AM

Spidey, from my memory - I can remember the one cuff, but as you say - the other cuff - I think she may have left that in place.

Well, that's all I can think of now. Anyway, I don't know. What else would you have her do?

I think Kate was thrown from the plane (just like Jack), was out for the count (just like Jack) had a *gasping* revival (just like Jack) - removed the other cuff and while rubbing her wrist stumbled on Jack in need of a few stiches.

That's why she was still rubbing her wrist just then: she had just dropped the cuffs on the small trail before getting to Jack.

This bothers me....Kate would be aware of the horror going on at the beach - could she just walk away from it? I don't think she could. We don't see her at the beach in any of the scenes before she meets Jack.

Lost In His Eyes

08-19-05, 02:34 AM

I don't think she was at the beach either. She looked a little out of it when she came walking out of the jungle. Sure, she could have seen the scene at the beach and been in shock, but, like you said, I don't see her leaving the scene. I would think she would try to help someone. And she did, she helped Jack even though she was kinda hesitant to.

Anyways, yeah, I think she only had one cuff on in the plane, she didn't get the other one off. The hand with the cuff still on was holding her oxygen mask to her face, while her uncuffed hand held the Marshall's mask.

SpidermanHouston

08-19-05, 02:44 AM

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The Central Scrutinizer

09-16-05, 02:26 AM

Hi everyone. I've only just begun to enjoy the pleasures of LOST in the past week on DVD.

Hodgepodge and looloo invited me over here because I was talking to myself on the original episodic threads. I'd poked in here a couple of times, but my eyes!!!! my eyes!!!! I encountered a couple of spoilers. :(

Most of the posts here are commenting on the season as a whole and I don't quite have that luxury yet. Before the week is out I should, though.

btw, I watched 'Outlaws' on the way home tonight. shhh, don't tell my fiancee. I think it's right up there with 'Walkabout' and 'House of the Rising Sun,' my two favorite episodes.

looloolou

09-16-05, 02:38 AM

I think I am guilty of that and am really sorry. The best solution is to just hurry up and watch them all right quick. Just keep popping them in the DVD player this weekend!

Then you can come back and read all the threads without fear and go back and watch the ones you want to see again or that threads make you curious about Monday and Tuesday and be all set for Wednesday night!

Again sorry if I spoiled anything for you. :)

Loo

mystjade

10-18-05, 04:36 AM

In Homecoming the exchange between Sun and Jin at the befor the credit's strikes me as a strange. The way they talk about the baby and it's health, makes it sound, like they lost one.

clayseason1

10-18-05, 12:12 PM

In Homecoming the exchange between Sun and Jin at the befor the credit's strikes me as a strange
Was that homecoming? The baby is not born yet in homecoming. 8o

Hodgepodge

10-18-05, 05:14 PM

mystjade says:In Homecoming the exchange between Sun and Jin at the befor the credit's strikes me as a strange. The way they talk about the baby and it's health, makes it sound, like they lost one.Mystjade, you mean you weren't around here when that episode first aired? Your thought was exactly the concensus of the Lostaways. Sun had lost a child, and that also added to the tension between her and Jin.

clayseason1 says:Was that homecoming? The baby is not born yet in homecoming.You don't remember CS? This was before Aaron's birth. Locke and Boone found Claire wondering around the jungle. They brought her back to the cave and Jack for medical attention.

Jin and Sun are hunched together alone, but very interested in Claire's health. But not her health, if you get my meaning. They were more concerned with the baby's.

clayseason1

10-19-05, 11:12 AM

You don't remember CS?

No, I did not. :eek (I can only offer in self defense - I've only seen most season1 episodes once. :o )
I did rewatch part of Homecoming and I agree with the conclusion that it appears Sun and Jin may have lost a child.

..or maybe

I've noticed lately that some figures seem very concerned about the baby...Sun and Jin (as mentioned)...Locke and Charlie....I'll have to pay more attention to that. 8o

mystjade

10-19-05, 12:33 PM

Mystjade, you mean you weren't around here when that episode first aired? Your thought was exactly the concensus of the Lostaways. Sun had lost a child, and that also added to the tension between her and Jin.

Hodge, I was here when it first aired, I Just forgot, about it, because it was never brought up, or even alluded to, befor.

mak4769

11-04-05, 07:37 AM

ileslie

11-04-05, 12:45 PM

Where did you check transcripts? The one on this site has:
Claire
Um, I was on a plane flying to LA from Sydney.

I have the DVD set and can turn captions on, but that won't be for a bit, work and all that, you know.

lostmio

11-14-05, 12:47 AM

Just checked, the DVD caps say to LA from Sydney.

eta: this is at the very first of Homecoming, and is immediately followed by the exchange between Sun & Jin discussing Claire's pregnancy. I still think Sun might be pregnant now.

They're watching Claire, just after she returned:

Jin: Is she all right? The girl?
pause, Jin looks at Sun

Sun: Yes, I think so.
pause,
Sun looks at Jin, they both look back at Claire,
long pause

Jin, still looking at Claire: And the baby?

pause
Sun turns and looks at Jin, eyes wide open, concerned look.
long pause,
Sun turns back, looks down, then back up but with a far-away look in her eyes,
pause,

Sun: I'm sure the baby is fine.

Jin turns and looks at Sun for a few beats, then looks down and away.

xXxJessiexXx

11-17-05, 09:13 PM

i'm Suprised no one has mentioned it, but when claire is talking to the group about her last not remembering any of the abduction, she said her last memery (which would have to pretty clear) was being on the plane, a flight from LA TO SYDNEY, not the over way round and some on else concurred this, i thought i missheard but have read the transcript and it is this way round, does this mean anything? is she really claire? who knows?

I tapped this eppisode and i thought it said LA to Sydney. I was thinking to my self im sure the flight was the other way round and if would make sence because she is an aussie and was going to LA to them 'parents'. i re wound it and if you listen clearly it does say Sydney to LA, i tink its just her accent so maybe someone else got confused or miss heard.

YouFirst

11-18-05, 11:19 PM

Hey guys, another long time lurker but first time poster. :)
Wasn't sure whether to post this on the 'Special' board or 'Homecoming' but I decided it fits best here. Has anyone considered the possibility Locke could have done something to interfere with Claire's memory when she was "found"? His attitude at the start of this episode concerned me, he seemed to know a lot more than he let on. I also remembered when Jack, Sayid, Charlie and Locke were discussing Claire they all had questions. Locke's question was something along the lines of "And the chances of that memory returning?" Could he be worried she'll remember something about him?

I really hope I'm wrong cause Locke is one of my favourite characters and I really want him to turn out good all along, but this is Lost anything can happen. :rolleyes:

Anyway I'm done! Thanks for reading! :)

xXxJessiexXx

11-19-05, 10:07 AM

Good idea and thought. I hadnt thought of that one. Locke certainly is a little bit dodgy or different. I mean he put that stuff on Boones head to make him think Shannon was dead! (weird or what!) Mayb he did have something to do with it, more than he's letting on.

I just thought he asked that question and seemed concerned beacuse if her memory did return then she would be able to tell them what happened and they would all be able to find out exactly what was going on. I just thought that was the reason he was concerned ect. But i could be wrong.

xXxJessiexXx

11-19-05, 01:03 PM

Sorry me again! :) Just reading the Transcripts and i dont know if anyone else has mentioned it or even noticed it. There is another cnnection to the numbers in this episode! When Charlie was seeling the copier as a job for Lucy's father. The particular copier he was seeling was 'Heatherton C815' he says (Uh, the Heatherton C815 copy center's leading scan offerings combine the benefits of document capture with instant delivery anywhere, anytime & Allow me to demonstrate the awesome speed of the C815 using one your technical manuals.) So again an other connection.

I looked through this thread to see if anyone else mentioned it and i didnt notice if you did. But as i was reading several of you seem to think that the survivers where manipulated to be on that flight. If this is the case then it would sort of explain why they are alive and didnt die. Lots of people believe in Fate, and that before you are born your whole life and your death is already planed out. So if people wewre manipulating them to be on the flight then that was interfereing with fate. So it wasnt there time to die so when the plane crashed they still survived. Am i making sense? lol. The only way this wouldnt work would be if it was in their fate to be manipulated onto the flight. But its confusing. This programe has so many twists and turns.

Hodgepodge

11-19-05, 11:24 PM

Those comments probably went along with the original discussion thread xXxJessiexXx. But believe me, we didn't miss it. You might like to peruse KF2's numbers site? You can find it here (http://thelostnumbers.blogspot.com/).

xXxJessiexXx

11-20-05, 10:05 AM

Yeah ive just read that. Thanks for posting. There are loads and loads for each of those nubers! Do you think they are all put in for a reason or do you think some of them are coinsidence?

I alwas think everyhting is for a reason but some of the adding up ect ones seem to be a bit deep and maybe just a coincidence. With a large group of numbers its not hard to find a other numbers but adding, taking away or multiplying dividing ect.

Hodgepodge

11-21-05, 07:00 PM

Stryker

12-22-05, 05:03 AM

Hodgepodge

12-22-05, 05:13 PM

in my mind there's not much more to convince me than that vincent is just an ordinary dumb dog. he was probably startled when he ran away from walt in the jungle. he probably though it was something that wanted to hurt walted so ran to the noise to warn whatever it was not to come near walt.
and when he stumbled upon boone, it indicated nothing more to me than that he'd once again been found. i've read things here that there might be connections between ethan and vincent. how the hell were those parallels drawn i'd like to know?You maybe right Stryker, but there's something about Vincent. I can't really put my finger on it. He appears and disappears at the most inopportune moments.

I always go back to that first moment in Pilot (Part 1). After we see Jack opening his eyes, he spots Vincent. From that first sighting, that dog has intrigued me.

There were rumors in S1, we might see a flashback/back-story from Vincent's POV. I said it then, and I'll say it now. I'd pay money to see that episoded. The things he's seen on the island probably would answer a lot of our questions.