S1 EPISODE 18 THREAD: NUMBERS

[truffula]

This is the only discussion thread we have relating to Season 1 Episode 18. The original was destroyed in the EZHack of 2005 and this one was created by truffula for the Summer Rerun. There will be no duplicate threads started about this during this weeks re-run as we'll continue here. Those looking for discussion starting when I moved this, please start on page 6. Thanks everyone and enjoy the episode. - Leuthen



Although the episode isn't actually reairing tonight, I thought it prudent that I start up the discussions early as we get the double threat starting this week.
This was the episode that opened it all up for me.
This started the ol brain churnin. And now here I am.

The original thread can be found here:
p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm40.showMes sage?topicID=18.topic (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm40.showMes sage?topicID=18.topic)

Here are my notes from my first runthru of Season One for this episode:

LOST Season One - Episode 18 - Numbers
Hurley backstory #1

No Eye shot to open - waves and Hurley on beach
(No Eye shot needed - this is THE NUMBERS episode)
Day 33+ (probably more as Raft #2 is up and running)
Danielle resides in the "dark territiory" -her name for it
1st appearance of the NUMBERS (4 8 15 16 23 42) written over and over on Danielles paper

FB 1 - Hurley is hispanic and lives with his mother, works at a chicken place when he wins lottery with the NUMBERS - Mary Jo draws numbers, 16 weeks since last winner

Sayid thought numbers were coordinates at first
Hurley mentions Sayid finding wire, no further discussion though - not smart.

FB 2 - Press conference at Hurleys
Number 8 seen on mic of oriental reporter asking how Hurley came up with numbers
(number 17 on another reporters mic), and channel 8's van seen also
Hurley's family - mom=Carmen, brother=Diego, brothers wife=Lisa, grampa=Tito (who is about to have a stroke) worked 3 jobs for 52 years, he's 70, pacemaker put in his heart 4 years ago, now he's dead
Hurley put his family though alot recently - what? (invovles mental institute I bet)

Hurley carries 4 water bottles on his hike to find Danielle
Locke asks Claire to help with "project" (cradle)

FB 3 - The new House for Carmen
Father Aguilar struck by lightning at Grampa Tito's funeral says Hurley, also Diego moved back home after Lisa left him for a waitress - Hurley thinks the money or himself is cursed. Hurley is a catholic. House is on fire, mom breaks ankle, and Hurley is arrested falsely.

Hurley finds cable, unburied (tide?) picks it up and follows it inland - WRONG direction to be lookin I think.

FB 4 - All Hurleys stocks are up, invested in oranges (stock went up after tropical storms in FLA.), now owns Box Company in Tuston - This is THE SAME ONE that LOCKE works at (DIRECT CONNECTION PREFLIGHT!!), owns a sneaker factory in Canada that was destroyed in a fire last month (timeline) 8 people died,
Police apparently mistook Hurley for a Drug Dealer - false arrest settlement
Hurley realizes the numbers are cursed - a man jumps off of building behind them

Sawyer is reading a new book - A Wrinkle in Time by Madeline L'Engle
Hurley encounters a dead hanging boar high up in a tree that was caught in one of Daneille's traps (I assume) and SOMETHING ate some of it.
Hurley steps on pressure trigger that will release a spiked ball - very BIG trigger, could this be more than just an assumed trigger?

FB 5 - Hurley visits Lenny at mental hospital.
It is revealed that Hurley and a Doctor know each other from a past at the hospital.

QUESTION - Was Hurley a Patient or a NURSE? Many assume Hurley was a Patient because of his past with Doc, and Doc saying he didnt remember Hurley and Lenny being close, as a NURSE might with a patient he/she is caring for. (Could we have a "new" Gaylord Focker?)

Lenny is playing Connect 4 as he mutters the numbers over and over, I also notice the order of the pieces in the connectfour board are places red/black/red/black and so on (no two adjacent same colors) Note when Lenny says numbers he says FortyTwo (unlike how Hurley is heard speaking them in Exodus 2)
"You've opened the Box, you shouldn't have used those numbers, it doesn't stop, you gotta get far away from those numbers or it won't stop" says Lenny - What won't stop? What do those NUMBERS DO?!?!?
Sam Toomey heard numbers, he lived in Calgooley (sp), Australia

They find the end of the cable buried in the ground, they just leave it - last mention of cable - fools.
They find manmade bridge, Charlie implies Ethan's "Team" could've built bridge, Sayid thinks Danielle and crew. I agree with Sayid, planks look like theyre from Black Rock (ship), not from logs/trees. Charlie says Hurley is acting like a lunatic - this may be misleading.

FB 6 - Hurley goes to Australia looking for answers
"If this weren't the middle of nowhere, I'd say you were LOST" - Mrs. Toomey
Sam Toomey has been dead for 4 years. Lenny's full name=Leonard Sims
Sam and Lenny were in Navy together, monitoring longwave transmissions out of the Pacific, 16 years ago they heard the numbers, later at fair, Sam wins $50,000 from some guy Phil for guessing the number of beans in a jar - he uses the numbers (first use?), Phil had been running scam for 40 years, on way home, car accident, Mrs. Toomey now has a fake left leg, Sam was unharmed
THEORY - the numbers have something to do with how they survived the crash, again What do those NUMBERS DO?!?!?
Sam commited suicide to end the numbers. "you make your own luck, dont blame the numbers" mrs. toomey says - No, I say BLAME the NUMBERS. Hurley is SOOO right on this one. Too bad no one has been listenin to him.

Locke knows how to make glue from rendered animal fat, he also says he's good at putting bits and pieces together.
Jack hits tripwire, blowing up Danielle's underground hut, but she's already moved
"Hell of a security system" says Jack - if he only knew
More misleading to Hurley being a lunatic. "About a year ago..." says Hurley, interrupted by gunshots.
Hurley and Danielle - she doesnt understand numbers either, her ship picked up same transmission Sam and Lenny heard, they found a radio tower on the island up by the Black Rock, they searched for meaning in numbers (equations on maps?), then the sickness came, when her team was all dead, she went to the tower and changed the transmission (so it Definitely could've been more than 16 years that she's been stuck there), she agrees the numbers are cursed.
A Question/Theory: Is it the Numbers that will make everyone "sick"? If so, HOW? What power do they have? Dammit I want ANSWERS!!
Danielle gives Hurley a battery.
Claire admits to Locke that she was going to give the baby away for adoption - CONNECTION - Locke was also given up for adoption at birth.
It is Claire's birthday on this day (check timeline)
Charlie admits to Hurley about his drug problem, Hurley tells Charlie he's worth $156 million. Charlie doesnt believe him.
Hurley thinks the plane crash was his fault.
The NUMBERS are seen on the HATCH. BLAM!!!!!!
LOST.


Seeing this ep again with Deus Ex Machina right after, and also with the possibilities of a new S2 promo on Wed is something I look forward to!! :D

Discuss On.
Peace,
Truff

[Lost In His Eyes]

The NUMBERS are seen on the HATCH. BLAM!!!!!!

Not real important, but is you new av. a pic of the numbers on the hatch? I couldn't really tell...

[truffula]

Yes it is LIHE. Good eye. I know it's kinda blurry, but I'm gonna try to keep up with the eps as they air.
For example, when I post on Wed., you will probably see Locke and the Hatchlight up there.

[Hodgepodge]

truffula says:...Hurley put his family though alot recently - what? (invovles mental institute I bet)...That was definitely the concensus of Lost-TV. And In Deus Ex Machina, we find out Locke's mother was also a patient at the same hospital.


truffula also says:...FB 4 - All Hurleys stocks are up, invested in oranges (stock went up after tropical storms in FLA.), now owns Box Company in Tuston - This is THE SAME ONE that LOCKE works at (DIRECT CONNECTION PREFLIGHT!!), owns a sneaker factory in Canada that was destroyed in a fire last month (timeline) 8 people died,...Truffula, someone tried to make a connection between the shoes Ethan wore and Hurley's shoe factory. For the life of me I can't remember the theory.

[Lost In His Eyes]

And In Deus Ex Machina, we find out Locke's mother was also a patient at the same hospital.

Hodge- Really? I never caught that... Maybe Hurley knew her. That is, if he was a patient there. I think he was. Wouldn't it be weird to find out that all of the other characters were connected to Hurley in some way? And in some way, connected to the numbers? Interesting...

[Hodgepodge]

Lost In His Eyes says:Hodge- Really? I never caught that...Yeah LIHE! We got some screencaps! When the Private Investigator lets Locke see the info he gathered in that folder. Right there, Santa Rosa (Crazy People) Hospital.

[zabzababz]

Hey Hodge... I think the connection between Ethen and Hurleys sneaker factory was that Hurleys sneaker company was in Canada and Ethen was from Ontario, and Ethen had some sneakers on. Thats all I remember at least. Was there any other connection made?

[Hodgepodge]

zabzababz says:Hey Hodge... I think the connection between Ethen and Hurleys sneaker factory was that Hurleys sneaker company was in Canada and Ethen was from Ontario, and Ethen had some sneakers on. Thats all I remember at least. Was there any other connection made?Zabzababz, you maybe right! I just remember someone making a big hoop-dee-do about it.

[russman588]

And In Deus Ex Machina, we find out Locke's mother was also a patient at the same hospital.

Odd... maybe there's a theme about parenting here. Jack's father was connected to Sawyer, Locke's mother was connected to Hurley...

[truffula]

Just some brief addendum notes here.

- oceanicflight815.com on Locke and Charlie promos tonight, don't remember seeing them there before.

- "You've opened the Box" says Lenny to Hurley. What BOX? (I assume he refers to Pandora's Box)

- 4 people that go off after Danielle: 2 men of faith (Charlie/Hurley) and 2 men of science (Jack/Sayid)

- I rambled a little about this in the first post, but as I was watchin the rerun I got to thinkin more about how Hurley is somehow "protected" by the numbers, kinda like he's "Unbreakable". Sam Toomey used the numbers on the bean game, gets in car wreck, his wife loses her leg, and he's unharmed (just another example of how the using the numbers kinda protects you). Then I went on to think that somehow the numbers shift the balance of luck/fortune/karma to those who use them, and at the same time because of the massive shift in energies, the numbers also bring BAD luck to all those around the one "protected" by them. Now, as I type, I get this feeling that the Others also dicovered the "power" of these numbers and were using them to get "test subjects" to the Island (the broadcast that brought Danielle and crew to the Island, and the Sickness the Others carried and infected them with).
Now I've heard rumors that Damon said something like we are gonna find out how and why the plane went down in the finale of S2, and that the Numbers play a much larger role in S2 as well. So how this will all tie together I can't wait to see.

I'm gonna go digging at Oceanicflight815.com in case they put any new goodies up (for not showing Deus tonight).

Peace,
Truff

[SpidermanHouston]

Why didn't Hurley yell at Charlie to not cross the bridge? He thinks he brings bad luck to others around him so he must have thought that Charlie was not going to make it across the bridge.

[Hodgepodge]

truffula says:...- 4 people that go off after Danielle: 2 men of faith (Charlie/Hurley) and 2 men of science (Jack/Sayid)...Curious about your classifications. Why do you have Hurley in the "faith" category? And Sayid! Couldn't he fit into both?

[clayseason1]

I've asked myself the same question. I also wonder why he didn't carry the dynamite.

[truffula]

Hodge -
Curious about your classifications. Why do you have Hurley in the "faith" category? And Sayid! Couldn't he fit into both?

I have Hurley in "faith" category because his mother says to him "You know we are Catholic, we don't believe in curses", not that he's necessarily a religious man, but the writers pointed out his religion for a reason. And as far as Sayid goes, yeah, he could be classified in both, but I see him side with Jack, the man of science over Locke, the man of faith when considering opening the hatch, I guess that's why.
I suppose it was more of a random thought that got mixed up with me being REALLY excited for S2. :p

Hope that clears up my thought on that.
Btw - I added more info on the S1 D7 dvd that I was able to get a peek at today in the DVD discussionm thread for anyone interested.

Peace,
Truff

[Brian]

I didn't notice it the first time around, rather, only tonight. Maybe it's just me, but, did anyone else notice the way Hurley reacted to Charlie in the, at least, two instances that Charlie mentioned mental disorders? The first time was after Charlie fortunately made it across the rope bridge. Jack was telling them to stay put and Hurley mentioned the trail to which Charlie responds with, "Hurley, will you shut up and listen to Jack? He said stay put. You're acting like a bloody lunatic. " The look on Hurleys face belayed that he didn't particularly like the term "lunatic." Maybe it was just me.

The second time came in the jungle. The exchange was as follows:
Charlie - "Don't change the subject. We're lost out here. Jack and Sayid could be hurt, if not blown to bits, all because you're acting like some bloody nutter."

Hurley - "I am not crazy. I've got my reasons. . ."

The second time can't really be appreciated unless you see the video it comes from. Both of those times Hurley looked to take offense from the "mental" suggestions Charlie was making.

My question now becomes, and I know it's been discussed, but was Hurley a patient, or simply a worker at the hospital?

I just picked up on Hurleys visual references for the first time tonight. I guess that's attributed to the fact that I didn't know the first time around what I know now during the re-run. Hmm. Interesting.

[SpidermanHouston]

My question now becomes, and I know it's been discussed, but was Hurley a patient, or simply a worker at the hospital?
That is the million dollar question that we will probably find out in Hurley's first episode.

[zabzababz]

I hope we find out soon in the second season if Hurley was a patient or not. Personally I belive that he was a patient. The refferences of how he put his family through alot lately, and then, like Leuthen said, the way he reacted to being called crazy. Also that could be a reason as to why no one would belive him... just a thought

[Hodgepodge]

truffula says:I have Hurley in "faith" category because his mother says to him "You know we are Catholic, we don't believe in curses", not that he's necessarily a religious man, but the writers pointed out his religion for a reason. And as far as Sayid goes, yeah, he could be classified in both, but I see him side with Jack, the man of science over Locke, the man of faith when considering opening the hatch, I guess that's why.I'd forgotten about Hurley's Catholicism connection. It makes perfect sense now. And, I agree with your assessment that Sayid would side with Jack, the man of science.


Leuthen, you're not the only one who caught those "crazy" statements. But, I've always thought Hurley was a patient at Santa Rosa instead of some type of orderly.

[the_real_ptb]

Not sure that this means anything at all, but I did notice that, when Hurley is getting arrested in front of his mom's new house, then they pan back to show the house, there is a-lot of really black smoke.

I would say it is less than a minute between the time when we first see the house on fire and when they pan back to show the house the second time, but the second time there is so much black smoke you can barely see the house at all. It seemed a little strange that a fire would produce that much heavy smoke in such a short time.

Well, at least I didn't see any faces in it.;)

[Hodgepodge]

Hey The Real PTB! It's good to have you back.

Yeah, I remember noticing the smoke during the first airing of Numbers. I remember it being very funny with all the other "bad" things happening to the family of Hurley. Doesn't someone either fall or jump out of the burning house in the next scene? :D

[sawyersgirl]

I don't think Hurley could be a nurse. Remember his reaction when Jack asks him to help hold down www.ezboard.com/images/em...s-his-name (http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gifwhats-his-name) to get the shrapnel out of his chest? Hurley is "not good around blood." He faints dead away. I don't think Hurley would have made it very far through nursing school.

[Hodgepodge]

ccooke says:I don't think Hurley could be a nurse. Remember his reaction when Jack asks him to help hold down www.ezboard.com/images/em...s-his-name to get the shrapnel out of his chest? Hurley is "not good around blood." He faints dead away. I don't think Hurley would have made it very far through nursing school.Rightfully so Ccooke! Another funny Hurley scene.

[acovell]

This was one of the first episodes I saw first time around. Such a great episode.

Poor Hurley! I definitely think he was in the mental hospital as a patient for all of the reasons people have mentioned, but also because of how the guy on the ladder reacted to him. If he had just been an orderly there, I doubt the man would have reacted as sheepishly as he did. He probably would have told him to stick it. He seemed to think Hurley was nuts. The girl at the front desk also treated him like a patient. I think he's been told he was crazy before the lottery happened, and he's afraid he is. That's why he's so reticent to tell anyone about the numbers. They'll think he's crazy. I think the scene between him and Danielle is one of my favorite scenes. She's obviously moved by him (she gives him a battery) and his relief at her agreeing that the numbers are cursed was palpable.

I wish we knew what happened to Lenny because of the numbers. I mean, we know he's in a mental hospital, but what happened to drive him there? Did he use them in some way?

Danielle's remark: "The numbers are what brought me here, as it appears they have brought you."

We know that the numbers did bring her there directly -- her ship came to the island to investigate because of hearing the numbers. But how does that work with Hurley? Hurley didn't fly the plane there. Presumably, the pilot didn't intentionally fly there. And even if he did, the numbers weren't broadcasting, so that's not why. And also, just because Danielle heard the numbers doesn't mean she used them.

All I can really deduce from it is that Sam Toomey heard the numbers 16 years ago. Danielle changed the transmission 16 years ago. Sam must have heard them not long before she changed the transmission.

That leads to the questions of who was transmitting the numbers in the first place, and why and if the numbers didn't bring flight 815 (or the drug plane, for that matter) to the island, what did?

Anyone think it's possible that the Artist Formerly Known As Emeka might have used the numbers, too?

[Hodgepodge]

acovell says:Danielle's remark: "The numbers are what brought me here, as it appears they have brought you."...You know Acovell, I've never really looked at this statement before. You're right too, Hurley didn't fly the plane to the island. Also, with how things have worked, I'm going to assume none of his family were on the flight as well. So what happened?

I've never wanted to accept the idea just saying the numbers would bring you to the island. I'm always looking for some type of trigger. Electrical storm! Massive turbulence! Anything that makes sense. I'm still having trouble. Please let it be something other than "abracadabra". If you know what I mean!

[Chinamom]

Sam Toomey's widow says he used the numbers to correctly guess the number of beans in the jar. So were there
815,162,342 beans? Or did he use them in some other way?

She did say the jar was as big as a horse. That's a lot of beans.

[acovell]

Sam Toomey's widow says he used the numbers to correctly guess the number of beans in the jar. So were there

I always assumed Sam used 815,162,342 as the number of beans, just like Hurley used them to play the lottery. No special knowledge - just using them when the opportunity arose.

[acovell]

Hodgepodge said:

I've never wanted to accept the idea just saying the numbers would bring you to the island. I'm always looking for some type of trigger. Electrical storm! Massive turbulence! Anything that makes sense. I'm still having trouble. Please let it be something other than "abracadabra". If you know what I mean!

I agree. The numbers really need to tie in to the reason the plane crashed. If not, it's too great a coincidence for me to accept, I think, and the numbers actually being "cursed" would be a stretch too.

[acovell]

One more indication that Hurley was a patient, not an employee, of the hospital. He doesn't know Lenny's last name. If he had worked there, he would have.

[acovell]

A couple of other things that struck me as odd --

Why didn't Sayid see the bridge when he was following the power cable? Jack seemed to think it odd that Sayid didn't see it. It was pretty flipping obvious being over that huge chasm and all. . .

Toomey's wife says: "If this weren't the middle of nowhere, I'd say you were lost." What the heck does that mean? Shouldn't it be something like "Since this is the middle of nowhere, I'd say you were lost?"

Lenny didn't hear the transmission; Sam did (Lenny said "he heard them" referring to Sam). So I guess that means that Lenny is one of the casualties of Sam using the numbers.

I swear I'm going to end up in the hospital right next to Lenny.

[Hodgepodge]

acovell says:Lenny didn't hear the transmission; Sam did (Lenny said "he heard them" referring to Sam). So I guess that means that Lenny is one of the casualties of Sam using the numbers.I'm going to have to check the transcripts. I thought they both heard the numbers......You're right Acovell! So you think it was something Sam did that got Lenny committed? I would think Sam told Lenny about the numbers. Lenny used them in some manner and got introduced to the staff at Santa Rosa (Crazy People) Hospital.

[acovell]

I'm going to have to check the transcripts. I thought they both heard the numbers......You're right Acovell! So you think it was something Sam did that got Lenny committed? I would think Sam told Lenny about the numbers. Lenny used them in some manner and got introduced to the staff at Santa Rosa (Crazy People) Hospital.

Actually, I was thinking along the lines that Sam used the numbers, and it negatively affected people around him: his wife lost her leg and Lenny (his friend) went crazy. However, you could be right. Lenny may have used the numbers, too, and that's why he went crazy -- but then I'd have to try and figure out how Lenny used the numbers -- which would make me go crazy. . . .

[Issek]

A lot of beans???

Using a fairly small bean size of 100 beans per ounce, if Sam only guessed 815,162,342 as the posts above suggest, they would weigh in at over a half million pounds.

If he used the entire sequence of 4,815,162,342 as his guess, the weight is over three million pounds!

And the amount of space needed for those beans...well my estimate is it would take a cube approximately fifty feet on each side to store the larger number.

Any way you look at it, that's a lot of beans, indeed. And they must have some pretty large horses down under, as well :eek .

[Chinamom]

Holy Moley Issek! I can't believe I left off the 4!!! That would indeed amount to a lot of beans, way more than I was envisioning! Thanks for the calculations:\

What I meant by using them some other way is...instead of guessing 4,815,162,342, could he have multiplied them

4x8x15x16x23x42=guessing 7,418,880

or added

4+8+15+16+23+42=guessing 108

or something else...

It makes sense he would just use them in sequence as above...but didn't Mrs. Toomey say they were in a jar or a barrel or something? How is it possible to fit almost 5 billion beans in a barrel? One of those continuity errors?

Maybe this has already been discussed in the numbers thread.

[Chinamom]

acovell writes

Toomey's wife says: "If this weren't the middle of nowhere, I'd say you were lost." What the heck does that mean? Shouldn't it be something like "Since this is the middle of nowhere, I'd say you were lost?"

I've always thought that was just a goofy TPTB joke. Have you noticed how many times a character says "We're LOST" or "If we go this way we'll get LOST" etc. I haven't kept track of them all, but there have been several and I just chalk it up to sort of an inside joke.

Or--going with the way you phrased it, I think she means that since she lives in the middle of nowhere, Hurley must have a definite purpose for seeking her out. Otherwise, he would have no reason to be in such an isolated place, so he would just be lost.

[acovell]

Or--going with the way you phrased it, I think she means that since she lives in the middle of nowhere, Hurley must have a definite purpose for seeking her out. Otherwise, he would have no reason to be in such an isolated place, so he would just be lost.

Ah hah! Thank you.

[LoStMyMiNd]

Also I think Danielle meant that the numbers brought him to her, not the island

[mixsta]

Hi, my very first post so be kind and apologies if this has been pointed out elsewhere but.....the talk seems to be all about how "Hurley" used the numbers or "toomey" did but couldn't you also say that certain passengers (ie. our survivors) used them too? If the info at oceanicair.com can be taken at face value; then with gate numbers, flight times, seat assignations and the like, they all were under the same "protection" afforded anyone who apparantly uses those particular numbers...could this go to in some way explain how they all could have survived with only minor injuries? Thoughts....?

[Hodgepodge]

Mixsta, let me be the first to welcome you to Lost-TV. I'm sure you're going to enjoy the community. Make sure to read the Welcome forum, it's easy to get lost. Now to your posdt!


mixsta says:Hi, my very first post so be kind and apologies if this has been pointed out elsewhere but.....the talk seems to be all about how "Hurley" used the numbers or "toomey" did but couldn't you also say that certain passengers (ie. our survivors) used them too? If the info at oceanicair.com can be taken at face value; then with gate numbers, flight times, seat assignations and the like, they all were under the same "protection" afforded anyone who apparantly uses those particular numbers...could this go to in some way explain how they all could have survived with only minor injuries? Thoughts....? We've looked at these numbers every way possible, and the idea that survivors were sitting in the number seats goes all to hell when you realize Locke was sitting in row 24.

[I like to listen]

We've looked at these numbers every way possible, and the idea that survivors were sittling in the number seats goes all to hell when you realize Locke was sitting in row 24.
I agree that Locke was in 24-D at crash time, but do not agree that that was always his seat number.
Seats 23D and 24D (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm2.showMess age?topicID=3571.topic)

.

[scottq74]

All I can really deduce from it is that Sam Toomey heard the numbers 16 years ago. Danielle changed the transmission 16 years ago. Sam must have heard them not long before she changed the transmission.

Or maybe Sayid was wrong when he made his calculation as to how long the message had been repeating. After all, the loop isn't a true loop because the recording we heard didn't feature the exact same message with each iteration.

[equinox]

scottq74 wrote:
Or maybe Sayid was wrong when he made his calculation as to how long the message had been repeating. After all, the loop isn't a true loop because the recording we heard didn't feature the exact same message with each iteration.
I liked Sayid's calculation because with the number of iterations at 30 seconds, it gives exactly 16 years and 23 weeks. But you're right, with the message variations, it makes it all worthless. Still, the relative chronology of the events relative to each other remain valid. Toomey's 16 years set a maximum value on that period.

[clayseason1]

I liked Sayid's calculation because with the number of iterations at 30 seconds, it gives exactly 16 years and 23 weeks. But you're right, with the message variations, it makes it all worthless.
Wait! I don't understand this.
If the message is repeating - it has to be the same message, otherwise it's not a loop or repetition. The entire message would have to be played each iteration.

[equinox]

clayseason1 wrote:
it has to be the same message, otherwise it's not a loop

Exactly. That's very precisely the problem.

The message does not seem to repeat identically with each iteration. Our first assumption, of course, would be to think "well, that must be just because we hear only a portion of the message each time. If we compare all the iterations that we hear and if we place all the different identifiable parts in a particular order, it should be possible to get the whole message, or at least most of it, should it not?" Well, no, in fact it turns out to be impossible. The bits just will not fit into a single repeated, identical, message, because apparently each so-called "iteration" of the message is not identical.

You can look at the transcript of the iterations that can be heard during The Pilot. The same transmission is also presented in one of the Easter eggs on the DVD. There's a transcription here at the top of this page:

p073.ezboard.com/flostthe...1&stop=420 (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm2.showMess ageRange?topicID=2088.topic&start=401&stop=420)

Of course, we cannot separate, for example, three sentences that are heard together in one apparently continuous, uninterrupted, segment of an iteration. If similar sentences are also heard, but in a different order, in another apparently continuous, uninterrupted, segment in another iteration, then each one of the two continuous segments should constitute a different portion of the message, if there were only a single message. Keeping this in mind, an experimenting with the iterations, it seems impossible to fit all segments into a single, short enough, message.

Note in particular the subtle variations. For example, one segment says "They are dead. They are all dead. (breathing)", and another segment says "They are all dead. (breathing) They are dead." Note the inversion.

It's like threre were a pool of very small "elementary segments", small sentences or parts of sentences, that have been excerpted from a recording, and with each "iteration" of the transmission the segments are remixed and some of them are randomly chosen and inserted in the "iteration".

What it all means? I don't know. Like so many other details in the show, it could be deliberate or not.

[clayseason1]

I'm going to search some of the archives and see if this has been discussed previously.

eta: Nothing that addresses this situation.

I thought - way back when I was a lurker - I read a comment someone made - Is it possible to change the recording but not the iteration counter?

i.e. - Danielle changes the recording - her recording is what we see as 6 iterations but it's her complete recording. Her complete recording is looped but the iteration counter is continuing from the prior message which we think was 6 numbers.

eta Have we heard Danielle's entire transmission? Maybe her entire message played but Shannon only caught a phrase from each playback...and it took 6 cycles before Shannon caught the entire message...maybe there's even more to the message.

This of course would mean that Danielle's message has not been playing for 16 years and 5 months (I believe is Sayid's estimation) - rather the iteration has been counting for 16 years and 5 months. Which would infer that the numbers were transmitted for 5 months if Danielle has been on the island for 16 years. It could also mean that Danielle could have been on the island a shorter period of time.

[Bunf]

hi guys, my first post here. anyway, just got the first season on dvd and watched the whole thing in about three days, hehehe. but I need your help now, anyone now the name of the actor who plays the guy on the orientation-video in the hatch? I've seen the second season episodes, but don't have them anymore.

you see, I could be wrong, but when hurley visits the mental hospital he is greeted by a doctor. and that doctor looks a lot like the one from the orientation film, only very much older.

so can someone check if the same actor is in this episode as well as the ones with the orientation film?

thanks!

[Hodgepodge]

Bunf, let me welcome you to Lost-TV. I'm sure you're going to enjoy the community. Make sure to read the Welcome forum, it's easy to get lost. Now to your post.


...you see, I could be wrong, but when hurley visits the mental hospital he is greeted by a doctor. and that doctor looks a lot like the one from the orientation film, only very much older.

so can someone check if the same actor is in this episode as well as the ones with the orientation film?

thanks!Believe me Bunf, you're not the only one who caught the likeness in the two characters. But it was two different actors playing two different characters.

If I run across the thread discussing that particular aspect, I'm provide a link right here. But you might want to try the Episode Discussion Threads: Season Two (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=11).

And again, welcome!

[Stryker]

i'm not 100% convinced hurly was a patient instead of an orderly at the mental hospital. i mean, hurley may've gone insane with the numbers, he still comes sane enough across too realise that the numbers are indeed cursed, but it hasn't made him fully looney, if you know i mean.
i'm guessing you've gotta qualify first to get into a nuthouse. looking at hurley characterstics, he just doesn't seem like enough of a whackjob like lenny to get into that place as a patient. i still think hurley used to work there. and it may well be possible that hurley worked there and did NOT know lenny's last name. and didn't that director or who ever he was that talked to hurley after he heard him yell at the desk that he(the director) was under the impression that hurley and lenny weren't that close.

during the bridge scene i found it quite odd hurley didn't make more of an attempt to force charlie to go back. hurely MUST have had a feeling that charlie was GOING to die. as in the bridge not holding charlie's weight and caving in.

i thought the scene when hurley confronted danielle could've gone either way. i mean, danielle is obviously scared of hurley and doesn't trust him coz he's one of the "others". then hurley raises his voice and starts going off at her bout going on a ride, pissed off giraffe etc, danielle at that moment could well have simply blown hurleys head of right there and then. i know i would've seriously considered doing that.
i mean, it's not like danielle is afraid to use a gun or anything, is it.

i don't think he's a man of faith. apart from the belief that the numbers are cursed, i don't see any hint of him being a believer. and i don't think he was a strong catholic like his mother either.

didn't understand that thing with the bean contest either. my best guess is, sam counted the numbers up. 107 in total isn't it? it's just that that number obviously isn't enough to fill a horse or whatever his wife said.
probably an error by the TBTP.

it was indeed funny what sam's wife said when she answered the door. i guess they never had un-expected visitors in the whole time they'd lived there. so her gut reation was that hurley must've been lost.
and i think charlie mentioned in the jungle to hurley that they were "lost".

[Hodgepodge]

i'm not 100% convinced hurly was a patient instead of an orderly at the mental hospital. i mean, hurley may've gone insane with the numbers, he still comes sane enough across too realise that the numbers are indeed cursed, but it hasn't made him fully looney, if you know i mean.
i'm guessing you've gotta qualify first to get into a nuthouse. looking at hurley characterstics, he just doesn't seem like enough of a whackjob like lenny to get into that place as a patient. i still think hurley used to work there. and it may well be possible that hurley worked there and did NOT know lenny's last name. and didn't that director or who ever he was that talked to hurley after he heard him yell at the desk that he(the director) was under the impression that hurley and lenny weren't that close.

during the bridge scene i found it quite odd hurley didn't make more of an attempt to force charlie to go back. hurely MUST have had a feeling that charlie was GOING to die. as in the bridge not holding charlie's weight and caving in....Stryker, remember when they interviewed Hurley after he won the lottery? "...That's really what it's all about for me, to be able to do things for the people I care about, because I really put my family through a lot recently, and, um, well this way I can make it up to them..." I've always taken this as a hint to him spending a little time in Santa Rosa.

Also, remember a little further in the episode. Charlie and Hurley are walking along. Charlie wants to know what's happening with him. "We're lost out here. Jack and Sayid could be hurt, if not blown to bits, all because you're acting like some bloody nutter." Hurley answers him with such a scowl. "I am not crazy. I've got my reasons. . ." Another assumption I made toward that little trip to Santa Rosa.

[Stryker]

you could be right. but i still find it difficult to accept that hurley turned form looney to completely and utterly 100% conciously sane. and then look at lenny, another person who's got a history with the numbers. or sam's wife. she didn't come across as fully functioning upstairs either.
if hurley had never looked at that piece of paper with the numbers on it, i seriously doubt anyone would've ever thought that he'd ever spend time in a psych ward. there's just no indication as far as i can tell that he would be. just a big guy he gets a bit too emotional sometimes, that's all.
so to cut to the chase, with the info we've been given, it gives a good indication that he was indeed a patient at santa rosa, but in reality i'd think somebody who indeed has a history as a mental patient, wouldn't be so conciously down to earth as hurley is. i mean, i'd expect a former nutjob to knock the living daylights out of charlie when he said to hurley he was some sort of lunatic.

[Hodgepodge]

you could be right. but i still find it difficult to accept that hurley turned form looney to completely and utterly 100% conciously sane. and then look at lenny, another person who's got a history with the numbers. or sam's wife. she didn't come across as fully functioning upstairs either.
if hurley had never looked at that piece of paper with the numbers on it, i seriously doubt anyone would've ever thought that he'd ever spend time in a psych ward. there's just no indication as far as i can tell that he would be. just a big guy he gets a bit too emotional sometimes, that's all.
so to cut to the chase, with the info we've been given, it gives a good indication that he was indeed a patient at santa rosa, but in reality i'd think somebody who indeed has a history as a mental patient, wouldn't be so conciously down to earth as hurley is. i mean, i'd expect a former nutjob to knock the living daylights out of charlie when he said to hurley he was some sort of lunatic.Well, just because you need a little help doesn't mean you're a total nutjob! Sometime people just need a clearer perspective on things. Not that I would know anything about that.*I hope they bought it!*

[The Kikukawa Kid]

Just speculation here:

Is there any reason to believe that Lenny was Hurley's friend in the 104st Airborne that fought in the Gulf War? For some reason, that makes sense to me.

There is no mention of Hurley's father. Maybe he was in the mental ward and that's why Hurley knows the doctor and Lenny.

It seems to me highly unlikely they would let a former patient waltz into the ward again. Or even a former employee. I think he has a more benign connection to Lenny and the ward.

[Hodgepodge]

...Is there any reason to believe that Lenny was Hurley's friend in the 104st Airborne that fought in the Gulf War? For some reason, that makes sense to me...I don't think so. According to Martha, Sam Toomey's wife. " ...They served together in the U.S. Navy." The 101st Airborne is an Army Division.


...It seems to me highly unlikely they would let a former patient waltz into the ward again. Or even a former employee. I think he has a more benign connection to Lenny and the ward.Well, if you revisit that scene again, you'll remember Hurley started at the receptionist's desk asking about Lenny. That's where he came across a doctor he knew/remembered (Dr. Curtis). That actually got him onto the floor of the ward.

[The Kikukawa Kid]

Hodge: You're right. I watched it again last night. Hurley says a couple of times emphatically "I am not crazy" which leads me to believe he was in the mental ward for some reason. Locke's mother was in the Santa Rosa Mental Hospital...I wonder if this is the same place? Her forms that the PI shows Locke have some doctors' names on them. If we knew the name of the doctor that Hurley talks to in the lobby I bet his name is on the list.

[I Sea U]

Originally Posted by The Kikukawa Kid
which leads me to believe he was in the mental ward for some reason.
This has defenitely been established already.

[Hodgepodge]

Hodge: You're right. I watched it again last night. Hurley says a couple of times emphatically "I am not crazy" which leads me to believe he was in the mental ward for some reason. Locke's mother was in the Santa Rosa Mental Hospital...I wonder if this is the same place? Her forms that the PI shows Locke have some doctors' names on them. If we knew the name of the doctor that Hurley talks to in the lobby I bet his name is on the list.Oh, it's the same hospital alright! :eek:

Kikukawa Kid, before the EZhack, we had a couple of great screencaps of those very papers. And for the life of me I can't remember if we ever came up with her doctors name. Maybe one of our members will supply us with some new caps? Not guaranteeing anything, but we're known for our screencaps. :)

[Brian]

I am going to move this back to the main General Discussion Area for tonight's episode. There will be no further discussion threads created for tonights rerun so please continue here. I have updated the first post to reflect this. Thanks everyone.

[RememberMe]

I am so eager to see if they alter any of the flashbacks to show Libby in the background!

Plus, I missed this episode before, so it's *almost* like a new episode for me.

[Brian]

I am so eager to see if they alter any of the flashbacks to show Libby in the background!
I saw it the first time, during the rerun, and again tonight thanks to the DVDs. If they do try something like that, it'll stick out like a sore thumb to say the least. Surely even TPTB aren't that desperate. :)

[Homer Noodleman]

I just want to warn you all -- when the vanishing chasm appears don't be surprised if you hear sailor talk being bellowed from the direction of Florida. That will be me. http://jazzopolis.com/pix/mad.gif

[wickedsweet]

My big observation for tonight is that I miss Sayid.

[imaguestage]

Am I the only one who wants to see more of Hurley's mom? I always laugh at her nagging. :D

[wickedsweet]

^^^No your not, she cracks me up too.

[redneck once removed]

That's what I was sayin too, all these people talk about religion & catholic connections: remember his mom told him "We're Catholics, we don't believe in curses!" in THIS Episode

[imaguestage]

That's what I was sayin too, all these people talk about religion & catholic connections: remember his mom told him "We're Catholics, we don't believe in curses!" in THIS Episode

And yet Hurley still believes in "The Curse of the Numbers" despite his religious upbringing. I don't know about how it can tie into the religious aspects, but in regards to the whole Faith v. Sciene debate, we know that by his belief in the power of the Numbers, Hurley is more of a Faith man, than a Sciene man. I think if the code for the computer weren't the Numbers, he would have had no objections when it came to pushing the button.

[imaguestage]

"When you find a laundry-mat, let me know." Cleverful foreshadowing or a stroke of lucl for the writers?

[djcoop14]

Just a couple different things I picked up from tonight's replay...and I do have season 1 on disc:

1) Dr. Curtis from the crazy ward REALLY does look like the orientation movie guy...but you know it can't be him because when the Dr. leaves the room, you can see both of his real arms and hands...unlike the movie guy...but even my wife who doesn't watch the show that much said "hey!...isn't that the guy from the bad movie?"

2) What are the chances (follow with me here...) that Hurley's brother's (Diego) ex-girlfriend/ex-wife who left him to be with "that waitress" turns out to be Jack's ex-wife(Sara)? It bothered me in the episode where Sara tells Jack she is leaving him for someone else...she never says he/him/etc...very non-gender talk....and it didn't help that I read someone else having that suspicion that Sara left for a woman too. Crazier things could happen...

....and no libby sighting to my knowledge

I appreciate anyone taking the time to read this...and any comments are welcome!

[jaj215]

Regarding the doctor that Hurley spoke to the lobby and Dr. Marvin Candle.
Just because two different actors played the roles and the characters had two different names, it doesn't necesssarily mean that it wasn't the same character in both episodes. If Dr. Marvin Candle was involved in something shady on the island, he probably would have changed his name and assumed a new identity back in the U.S. Also, perhaps the actor who played Dr. Marvin Candle was unavailable the week that the Numbers episode was filmed so the casting director hired another actor. Or, perhaps, the producers of Lost played mind games with the viewers by hiring an actor who looked sort of like the other one to play the role. Who knows? Maybe the writers don't even know if the doctor in the hospital and the man in the orientation film will end up being the same character. I don't know anything about the television business, but I am a writer and writers get stuck and rewrite and revise and alter characters and change endings - so maybe the writers aren't exactly sure where this is all going to end up, eiher.

[Scapegoat]

So was the Numbers rerun the same episode, ie no noticiable changes?

[imaguestage]

^^^^No changes I noticed.

[lostmio]

Widow Toomey is still my favorite one-shot character ever. Her dialogue is not conversation, it's a ~story~ specially prepared for Hurley, with a beginning, a middle, a twist, and an end with a peg leg reveal.

[major095]

yep, another person missing a limb.

I would think that hurly would want nothing to do with the hatch b/c the numbers are on the outside. it's only a matter of time before the "bad luck" catches up.

[lost_clueless]

FB 5 - Hurley visits Lenny at mental hospital.
It is revealed that Hurley and a Doctor know each other from a past at the hospital.

I just saw the episode again and the doctor really looks like the dude in the Orientation video. Can anyone confirm with Tivo or a screencap?

He looked like an older version of the guy in the Orientation video which would make a lot of sense.

[La]

mmm beans

[Billy Shears]

Widow Toomey is still my favorite one-shot character ever. Her dialogue is not conversation, it's a ~story~ specially prepared for Hurley, with a beginning, a middle, a twist, and an end with a peg leg reveal.

Claire's psychic was pretty intense, but yes, Widow Toomey's scene was classic television, and even got me thinking.
WHAT IF Sam and Mrs. Toomey had a daughter. Her name being Elizabeth, or Libby, for short. If my father blew his head off, I'd want "some freakin' answers" from the guy who was in the Pacific with him IF the numbers were that important that it drove them both crazy. If she is a clinical psychologist, maybe she was keeping track of Lenny, found out about Hurley's visit to either Lenny or Widow Toomey, and followed Hurley to the airport. I can imagine a future episode where we see A) her finding a way into Hurley's hotel room the night before (Season 1 Exodus) and pulling the plug on his alarm clock, or B) The two of them hitting it off on the island, and him saying something about how his luck must be changing since he met Libby, to which she replies "You make your own luck, Hugo"
I don't know many adults who play carnival games like "guess how many jelly beans are in the jar" unless they are coerced by their child.
Even if there is no relation, Dr. Curtis could have Libby to tell her Hurley was there, getting info from Libby.
Then again, what the hell do I know.
Sorry if this should have gone in T&S. I just thought it went with this particular episode.

[clayseason1]

If the numbers bring people to the island (as mentioned by Danielle and Hurley) then why didn't they bring Sam Toomey to the island?

another thought

Using the numbers seems to start a chain reaction. The carnival/bean jar guy chose those numbers for the beans and had been "using" them for 40 years. Nothing happened. Sam Toomey uses the numbers once and the chain reaction starts. This tells me, that the carnival/bean jar guy alerted someone to the fact that Sam knew the numbers. On the way home from the carnival, his tire blows - nothing happens to him but his wife loses a limb. Did someone tamper with the tire? Was that an attempt to kill Sam because he was aware of the numbers?

[Aaron's Mum]

Ok so no one had an "aha" moment watching this? Dang it. I am assuming they picked this rerun - out of all of the possible ones, for a specific reason. I was hoping someone would find something huge. The only thing I noticed was the black smoke from the fire, but I dont think it meant anything, I just didnt pay attention to it last season.

[G-Man]

Ok so no one had an "aha" moment watching this? Dang it. I am assuming they picked this rerun - out of all of the possible ones, for a specific reason. I was hoping someone would find something huge. The only thing I noticed was the black smoke from the fire, but I dont think it meant anything, I just didnt pay attention to it last season.

I was expecting something as well, but figured it would have to be an alteration of some kind (inserting libby in the background of the hurley/lenny talks or something like that).

what I'm HOPING is that they chose this episode because this week's episode will be dealing with the numbers in some capacity.

[lostaway27]

just some things i noticed on last nights episode...

was it just me or did the doctor that brought hurley to lenny in the hospital slightly resemble the guy from the dharma video? maybe theyre not the same person, but could they be brothers? or father/son? or even friends?

also is there a possible connection between the 16 years ago that sam toomey "opened the box" by using the numbers in the bean contest and the 16 years ago that danielle and her crew arrived on the island? maybe by using the numbers sam opened the island, allowing danielle's boat to arrive there.


eta- one more thing...the scene where hurley finds the boar hanging in the jungle while searching for danielle is a literary allusion the the lord of the flies scene where the boy (i cant remember the name) encounters almost the same thing, a dead boar with flies circling around. and in hurley's scene, they emphasized the loud sound of the flies buzzing around the boar.

[clayseason1]

was it just me or did the doctor that brought hurley to lenny in the hospital slightly resemble the guy from the dharma video?
They look nothing alike.

[Ramification]

Ok, maybe i'm just simplfying here, but could it be that ABC showed this eppy because Hurley is a very popular character ? No other reason :)

[depictureboy]

If the numbers bring people to the island (as mentioned by Danielle and Hurley) then why didn't they bring Sam Toomey to the island?

another thought

Using the numbers seems to start a chain reaction. The carnival/bean jar guy chose those numbers for the beans and had been "using" them for 40 years. Nothing happened. Sam Toomey uses the numbers once and the chain reaction starts. This tells me, that the carnival/bean jar guy alerted someone to the fact that Sam knew the numbers. On the way home from the carnival, his tire blows - nothing happens to him but his wife loses a limb. Did someone tamper with the tire? Was that an attempt to kill Sam because he was aware of the numbers?

The carnival guy didnt know about the numbers. He just happened to have the amount of the jellybeans in the Jar...Sam used the numbers(added? Multiplied?) to guess the number of beans in the jar...thats the difference...The tire blowing was part of the bad luck of using the numbers....

[Bob Sacamano]

I think they choose 'Numbers' because Danielle and Sayid factor so greatly into the episode. Hopefully this signals Danielle's return as well as Sayid's return to significance next week.

At the end of next weeks promo, Sayid and Hurley pick up a transmission which connects back to the Hurley-Sayid-Danielle triangle that played out in 'Numbers.' I'm guessing that Sayid goes out to find the source of the transmission and runs into Danielle again.

[Subject # 4815162342]

Anyone notice when Hurley is on the way to the Airport,he DOES'NT get a flat tire,his entire vehicle shuts down completely....and when they pan to the dash board display,there's a big ol' 42 there.....mph?....I dunno,but there it is!....screencap,anyone?

[Sawyer's Dimples]

This episode showed the beginning of Claire and Locke's connection. Those cradle-making scenes set the stage for the affection and trust Claire feels for Locke. She shared her secret, that she was going to give the baby up for adoption. Locke didn't judge her; he showed compassion when he said that must have been a difficult decision. To me, the scenes have more import now that we know the Claire-Charlie-Locke dynamics coming up.

[vicki1624]

Ok so no one had an "aha" moment watching this? Dang it. I am assuming they picked this rerun - out of all of the possible ones, for a specific reason. I was hoping someone would find something huge. The only thing I noticed was the black smoke from the fire, but I dont think it meant anything, I just didnt pay attention to it last season.


I think that since the average person who watches Lost isn't one of "us" (meaning those that analyse every little thing)......that they re-ran that episode just to refresh the general publics memory of Danielle, since she's likely going to be in next weeks episode.
I think sometimes we read too much into some things.

[ILikeLostBrunettes]

I think sometimes we read too much into some things.

You must be joking...


Now what color was the piece of thread that I saw for 0.5 seconds on the back of Hurleys shoe?

[Tank in Texas]

Enjoyed last night's rerun of "Numbers". Most telling reason they decided to go with this ep, in my opinion- Claire to Locke while attempting to figure out what she's helping him build, "What is this, a trap for an animal?"

That's EXACTLY what it is in the long run Claire. Locke wants that baby and he's been setting his trap since last season.

Tank

[feeblemind]

I was just wondering how many people have actually put the numbers into the terminal in the hatch

Could this considered "using" the numbers?

[see you in the next life]

I know this has probably been discussed ad nauseum already but I was struck by something that I hadn't really considered much before last night. I checked this against Sledgeweb's timeline---so here goes:

According to Sledgeweb, Sam & lenny heard the numbers 16 years and 7 months prior to the plane crash. Danielle changed the transmission 16 years and 5 months before the plane crash....so, Sam & lenny heard the numbers a mere 2 months before Danielle changed the transmission. Now, according to Sledgeweb, Sam used the numbers to win the jelly-bean contest also 16 years, 7 months before the plane crash. What happened here, he heard the numbers literally a few days or weeks before he got out of the Navy? I wonder how this could just happen to be. My point is, if had stayed in the Navy just a little longer he might have heard Danielle's transmission and she might perhaps have been rescued. Just something to think about. Lastly, I wonder why anyone would have been broadcasting those numbers. If, for example, Dharma had been a secret there would have been no reason to broadcast them.....It has obviously been speculated many times that Danielle and her team were part of a resuce team, brought to the island by Dharma, as a result of them hearing the numbers broadcast. Seems likely to me----but I truly love Danielle's character and daon't want to believe that she is involved and withholding (deliberately) information. What are your thoughts everyone?

[Ida Monster]

Ok so no one had an "aha" moment watching this? Dang it. I am assuming they picked this rerun - out of all of the possible ones, for a specific reason. I was hoping someone would find something huge. The only thing I noticed was the black smoke from the fire, but I dont think it meant anything, I just didnt pay attention to it last season.
I'm going to be pessimistic and assume that the numbers have little, if any, connection to the following new episode. I think that the writers really don't want to expound on them any further. However, if they do I'll be pleased nonetheless.

I think they may have re-aired it specifically to remind us about the following and tie it in to the story arc:

"the sickness" and how it may have affected Danielle's "team", and if it's affecting them all now.

"The Others" and their control over the dark terrirtory & the radio tower,

Hugo's Catholic faith and how it may draw him into friendship with Eko.

Locke's advancing affection for Claire, and how it will continue to create friction with Charlie.

As for an "'aha' moment", It's probably nothing but my interest was piqued with the examples Martha Twoomey used when talking about the "curse" of the numbers to Hurley:
You think I'd still have my leg if Sam hadn't of picked the right number of beans? You think that floods wouldn't have happened? That homes wouldn't have burned down? That people wouldn't have died? They're either random examples, personal examples of her own misfortune, or she knows more about Hugo than she's letting on.

[Ida Monster]

Anyone notice when Hurley is on the way to the Airport,he DOES'NT get a flat tire,his entire vehicle shuts down completely....and when they pan to the dash board display,there's a big ol' 42 there.....mph?....I dunno,but there it is!....screencap,anyone?

That wasn't in this episode. You're thinking of episode 23, "Exodus III".

[Zeek]

For me the thing that made me go hmmmm was the reference to 16 years ago. Now was this just put there because 16 is one of the numbers? If not then those numbers weren't broadcasting for long...a few months at most.

Makes me wonder if Danielle's team picked up the transmission, communicated with whoever was punching in the numbers and then showed up. Maybe her team is "the incident".

[The_Lurker]

I don't know many adults who play carnival games like "guess how many jelly beans are in the jar" unless they are coerced by their child.
When there is a big cash prize, as in this case, many adults will play a game like that.


As for how the "numbers brought Hurley to the island," in a roundabout way, they did. Flight 815 brought Hurley there, but I don't recall anyone saying the flight number to Danielle. Not that we were privy to everything Sayid said to her.

[Ramification]

For me the thing that made me go hmmmm was the reference to 16 years ago. Now was this just put there because 16 is one of the numbers? If not then those numbers weren't broadcasting for long...a few months at most.


We know they heard the transmission 16 years ago but it doesn't mean that it wasn't transmitting for a longer time than that but never got picked up. Although it is odd that both parties heard it only 2 months apart.

[athywithak]

I agree with Sawyer's Dimples and BobS. - things besides the numbers were emphasized in this episode that tie in with current plots :
Locke and Claire
Danielle / Sickness /Radio Tower
Hurley and psych ward

I hope the radio tower point gets revived because we have often said it is one of the most infuriating and unrealistic castaway disconnects that they haven't asked more about it or gone to find it - that and the cable!

Everyone seems to think using the numbers brings the user bad luck. Seems to me Hurley has GOOD LUCK and he knows it (he is sure none of the DR traps which befall him, and the bridge etc. will not hurt him, he is rich and he keeps getting richer, except he DOES LOSE to walt, eh?) - the numbers bring bad luck to those around the user. Lenny didn't use the numbers, his pal did, and he is crazy now.

read thread before post don't ask "same doctors?" aieeee gasp gasp

K

[pepin_radbod]

did they change the dialogue in the repeat showing? did danielle say, after the discussion of the curse of the numbers, "my crew... the others" were affected? it's not on the season 1 transcripts.

[vafrog]

What I am wondering and haven't seen any posts about (and I apologize if I just can't find them) is who is the woman in the piece of the picture that Sayid picks up off the ground toward the end of the episode - the camera closes in on the pic, but who is it? Danielle at an earlier time? Sayid's former love?

I have the episode tivo'd and have replayed it several times, but can't decide who's in the picture. I'm wondering if that's why they replayed this episode . . maybe something going forward with Sayid.

[RememberMe]

What I am wondering and haven't seen any posts about (and I apologize if I just can't find them) is who is the woman in the piece of the picture that Sayid picks up off the ground toward the end of the episode - the camera closes in on the pic, but who is it? Danielle at an earlier time? Sayid's former love?

I have the episode tivo'd and have replayed it several times, but can't decide who's in the picture. I'm wondering if that's why they replayed this episode . . maybe something going forward with Sayid.

The picture is of Sayid's former love Nadia. It was detailed in Sayid's flashbacks when he was captured by Danielle.

[ZIA]

For me the thing that made me go hmmmm was the reference to 16 years ago. Now was this just put there because 16 is one of the numbers? If not then those numbers weren't broadcasting for long...a few months at most.

Makes me wonder if Danielle's team picked up the transmission, communicated with whoever was punching in the numbers and then showed up. Maybe her team is "the incident".

16 years was how long Danielles distress call has been broadcasting due to calculating the interrations. Danielle's team heard the transmissions and came by to investigate when the ship ran aground. They never communicated with anyone regarding the numbers as far as we know.
zia

[ZIA]

Let me make it easier:
the numbers were broadcasting and Danielle's team heard them and headed to the island to investigate. Later, Danielle changed it to a distress call which has been playing for 16 years calculated by figuring the interrations on the loop.Danielle and her team never communicated with anyone regarding the numbers as far as we know.
NONE of this was even on the "Numbers" episode though. FYI
zia

[The_Lurker]

(he is sure none of the DR traps which befall him, and the bridge etc. will not hurt him, he is rich and he keeps getting richer, except he DOES LOSE to walt, eh?)
Well, that's because Walt makes things happen. He needs double sixes, he gets double sixes. But you knew that. :D

[Zeek]

Let me make it easier:
the numbers were broadcasting and Danielle's team heard them and headed to the island to investigate. Later, Danielle changed it to a distress call which has been playing for 16 years calculated by figuring the interrations on the loop.Danielle and her team never communicated with anyone regarding the numbers as far as we know.
NONE of this was even on the "Numbers" episode though. FYI
zia Well she did talk about it.

Danielle [lowering her rifle]
Our ship picked up a transmission, a voice repeating those numbers. We changed course to investigate. After we shipwrecked my team continued to search for the transmission source. It was weeks before we found the radio tower.
Hurley
There's a radio tower on this island?
Danielle
Yes, up by the black rock. Some of us continued to search for the meaning of those numbers while we waited for rescue. But then the sickness came. When my team was gone, I went back up to the tower and changed the transmission.



The part that made me think of all this though was when Sam Tooney's wife said that they heard the transmission 16 years ago. Since we know Danielle changed the transmission 16 years ago. Then it couldn't have been running for long.

I know Danielle never mentions communicating with anyone but if you're going to "investigate" a transmission would you try sending a transmission back first?

[ZIA]

Well she did talk about it.

Danielle [lowering her rifle]
Our ship picked up a transmission, a voice repeating those numbers. We changed course to investigate. After we shipwrecked my team continued to search for the transmission source. It was weeks before we found the radio tower.
Hurley
There's a radio tower on this island?
Danielle
Yes, up by the black rock. Some of us continued to search for the meaning of those numbers while we waited for rescue. But then the sickness came. When my team was gone, I went back up to the tower and changed the transmission.



The part that made me think of all this though was when Sam Tooney's wife said that they heard the transmission 16 years ago. Since we know Danielle change the transmission 16 years ago. Then it couldn't have been running for long.

I know Danielle never mentions communicating with anyone but if you're going to "investigate" a transmission would you try sending a transmission back first?
Thanks! You're right...
zia

[longlostluvr]

quote-djcoop14

2) What are the chances (follow with me here...) that Hurley's brother's (Diego) ex-girlfriend/ex-wife who left him to be with "that waitress" turns out to be Jack's ex-wife(Sara)? It bothered me in the episode where Sara tells Jack she is leaving him for someone else...she never says he/him/etc...very non-gender talk....and it didn't help that I read someone else having that suspicion that Sara left for a woman too. Crazier things could happen...

Good observation djcoop14!! I'm really surprised no one else picked up on this (I did!). There had been a lot of talk as to whether Jack's ex-wife Sara had left him for a male or female. Most posters seem to feel it was a female, but I really don't think that we have enough information yet to support this theory. At this point, I also don't feel that it is necessarily a big issue or pivotal to plot development or provides us with additional information about the mysteries of the island. If anything it might just give us more insight into Jack's psyche and the future of his relationships with Ana Lucia and/or Kate. Not blowing off your theory, but it would be ve-r-r-ry interesting if Sara and Hurley's ex-sis-in-law (or his bros' ex-girlfriend) had been together. Small world, ain't it?

[Fish1941]

Except . . . didn't Jack and Sara live in Boston? On the East Coast? And didn't the Reyes family live in Los Angeles?

[imaguestage]

The part that made me think of all this though was when Sam Tooney's wife said that they heard the transmission 16 years ago. Since we know Danielle changed the transmission 16 years ago. Then it couldn't have been running for long.

If Flight 815 did take off in 2004 then Danielle's transmission was started in 1988. The "Numbers" transmission could have been playing for a long time before this, at least 8 years. The Numbers are used for the code in the Hatch and the Orientation film that gives instructions on how to enter the code was made in 1980. At the latest the transmission would have been started in 1980 and who knows how early before that. Perhaps the Numbers predated the hatch and that is why they were used as the code. The Numbers COULD have been transmitting for quite some time before Sam heard them, though not much longer than three months after he heard them.

When Danielle and her team ran aground she was seven months pregnant. Her team then came down with the Sickness, she killed them and then delivered the baby herself. A week later the Others came and took Alex. If was then that Danielle returned to the tower and changed the transmission. If Danielle was just starting her seventh month she would have at the absolute most, three months between when they ran agrounf and she changed the transmission.

[ZIA]

Except . . . didn't Jack and Sara live in Boston? On the East Coast? And didn't the Reyes family live in Los Angeles?
I think it would be funny if Sarah was seeing the "waitress" but yeah, I think jack and Hurley lived on opposite coasts too.
zia

[salem2005]

This episode showed the beginning of Claire and Locke's connection. Those cradle-making scenes set the stage for the affection and trust Claire feels for Locke. She shared her secret, that she was going to give the baby up for adoption. Locke didn't judge her; he showed compassion when he said that must have been a difficult decision. To me, the scenes have more import now that we know the Claire-Charlie-Locke dynamics coming up.

I agree that the replaying of this episode was partly to show the origins of the Claire-Locke connection - but not in the same way that you describe. Here is my take on it...after becoming concerned about "how" Locke is acting these days...as I rewatched this episode, I found myself much more suspicious of him. Like he was up to something waaaaayyyy back then.

When Claire says that she is tired of trying to remember what happened "out there"...Locke has this strange look on his face and then even though she has already pointed out that she is tired of talking about it...Locke proceeds to try and pump her for information...And he acts very suspiciously when he asks her: "How's that coming? The remembering part?" I got the feeling that he was "scared" that she might actually remember something...he wanted to find out what she knows. It felt like if she doesn't remember anything, than that's a good thing and he doesn't have to worry about the "knowledge" she might have picked up out there. But, if she does remember something...well, then I'm not sure what Mr. Locke would have "done" to her to keep her quiet about it.

As I said, this is all based on my recent suspicions of where they are going with Locke's character...to a darker side. It was very interesting to watch it from a different perspective this time around.

[Evilrabbit]

quote-djcoop14

2) What are the chances (follow with me here...) that Hurley's brother's (Diego) ex-girlfriend/ex-wife who left him to be with "that waitress" turns out to be Jack's ex-wife(Sara)? It bothered me in the episode where Sara tells Jack she is leaving him for someone else...she never says he/him/etc...very non-gender talk....and it didn't help that I read someone else having that suspicion that Sara left for a woman too. Crazier things could happen...

Good observation djcoop14!! I'm really surprised no one else picked up on this (I did!). There had been a lot of talk as to whether Jack's ex-wife Sara had left him for a male or female. Most posters seem to feel it was a female, but I really don't think that we have enough information yet to support this theory. At this point, I also don't feel that it is necessarily a big issue or pivotal to plot development or provides us with additional information about the mysteries of the island. If anything it might just give us more insight into Jack's psyche and the future of his relationships with Ana Lucia and/or Kate. Not blowing off your theory, but it would be ve-r-r-ry interesting if Sara and Hurley's ex-sis-in-law (or his bros' ex-girlfriend) had been together. Small world, ain't it?

No, Sarah was not a waitress, she was a teacher/professor, she told Jack she had some papers to grade. I thought maybe Diego (Hurley's brother) was the guy maybe.

Except . . . didn't Jack and Sara live in Boston? On the East Coast? And didn't the Reyes family live in Los Angeles?

Nope, Jack and his dad are Red Sox fans, which might suggest they live in Boston, but in reality they live in Los Angeles, because Desmond says he saw Jack in the stadium in Los Angeles, and also We know Boone and Shannon are from California and Adam Rutherford was taken to Jack's hospital.


I know Danielle never mentions communicating with anyone but if you're going to "investigate" a transmission would you try sending a transmission back first?

The numbers were transmitting FROM the radio tower on the island, that's why they called it the "transmission source". There is no "back." She investigated the transmission, and changed the numbers that were broadcasting OUT to her distress call, broadcasting OUT so that someone would come.

Now on to the reason I came to this thread in the first place. In light of recent events, a line that was 1000X funnier this time around than last:

Hurley: When you find a laundromat, let me know.

LMAO!!!

[imaguestage]

Now on to the reason I came to this thread in the first place. In light of recent events, a line that was 1000X funnier this time around than last:

Hurley: When you find a laundromat, let me know.

LMAO!!!

I mentioned this earlier thinking it was great! I wonder if the writer's added the washing machine/dryer after re-watching this episode or it was somehow careful foreshadowing? As much as I love LOST and as great of a show I think it is, I really believe they got the idea for the laundry facilities from this episode, rather than an attempt at foreshadowing.

[Sawyer's Dimples]

Salem2005, thanks for noticing my post. I mentioned the beginning of Claire's trust in Locke but I definitely agree with you that Locke's interest in her seemed much more suspicious in retrospect. The oh-so-casual questions about how much she remembered, coupled with the quick sidelong glance at her seemed to have a dark undercurrent

[imaguestage]

Salem2005, thanks for noticing my post. I mentioned the beginning of Claire's trust in Locke but I definitely agree with you that Locke's interest in her seemed much more suspicious in retrospect. The oh-so-casual questions about how much she remembered, coupled with the quick sidelong glance at her seemed to have a dark undercurrent

I am a firm Locke supporter, but I have to agree with you guys that he seemed suspicious. What about when he said "I'm good at putting bits and pieces together." Couple that with the conversation he had with Jack about liking to play games in "Exodus Part 2" and it does appear that there was something suspicious about him even in Season 1.

[salem2005]

I am a firm Locke supporter, but I have to agree with you guys that he seemed suspicious. What about when he said "I'm good at putting bits and pieces together." Couple that with the conversation he had with Jack about liking to play games in "Exodus Part 2" and it does appear that there was something suspicious about him even in Season 1.

I am a Locke fan...good or evil...light or dark...Terry O'Quinn is amazing and I'll love this character no matter how he turns out...but as I said, in retrospect, it's rather interesting to rewatch those scenes with what we know now...it almost makes me want to go back and watch more of the episodes from the 1st season just to see if I "view" things from a different perspective now with the accumulated knowledge we have picked up during Season 2.

[imaguestage]

I've been watching all the episodes in order the past few weeks from Season 1 and I am now up to "Collision" from Season 2. It definately gives you a different view of things that are happening watching everything in order. Not only that, it's better than most things on TV right now. :D

[Zeek]

The numbers were transmitting FROM the radio tower on the island, that's why they called it the "transmission source". There is no "back." She investigated the transmission, and changed the numbers that were broadcasting OUT to her distress call, broadcasting OUT so that someone would come.
How do you come to that conclusion? I make calls FROM my cell phone and amazingly I hear other people talking back to me. I've only been in a radio station once as a kid with a school trip but I'm pretty sure they had radios of their own there. So they were making transmissions and they even had the technology to receive transmissions too.

I mean either way you have to make an assumption. The point is we don't know what's at the radio tower. Maybe it's a tower at an airstrip. Maybe it's a satellite dish with a tape recorder attached. We don't know. I'm betting whatever it ends up being, it will be different than most of us imagine.

[imaguestage]

How do you come to that conclusion? I make calls FROM my cell phone and amazingly I hear other people talking back to me. I've only been in a radio station once as a kid with a school trip but I'm pretty sure they had radios of their own there. So they were making transmissions and they even had the technology to receive transmissions too.

Like Sayid said in the pilot, they could not send out a distress call because the signal that they picked up was <B>already broadcasting a transmission.</B> Also, cell phone technology is much more advanced and complicated than a radio transmission tower.

[Ramification]

2) What are the chances (follow with me here...) that Hurley's brother's (Diego) ex-girlfriend/ex-wife who left him to be with "that waitress" turns out to be Jack's ex-wife(Sara)? It bothered me in the episode where Sara tells Jack she is leaving him for someone else...she never says he/him/etc...very non-gender talk....and it didn't help that I read someone else having that suspicion that Sara left for a woman too. Crazier things could happen...

....and no libby sighting to my knowledge



If anything, she could turn out to be Kate's mom who we saw as a waitress in the fbs. I highly doubt that its Sara, why would a doctors wife work as a waitress ?

[camelsmoker]

If anything, she could turn out to be Kate's mom who we saw as a waitress in the fbs. I highly doubt that its Sara, why would a doctors wife work as a waitress ?

Again, the Reyes family is in Los Angeles, but Diane (Kate's mother) is in Iowa.

And, as previously observed, in Jack's FB from The Hunting Party, Sarah mentions having papers to grade, suggesting that she is a teacher/professor.

[avon]

The carnival guy didnt know about the numbers. He just happened to have the amount of the jellybeans in the Jar...Sam used the numbers(added? Multiplied?) to guess the number of beans in the jar...thats the difference...The tire blowing was part of the bad luck of using the numbers....
Ok, this got me thinking... how does this "jelly beans in a jar" thing work? I mean, somebody has this big ("the size of a pony") jar full of beans, then you place your bet and name the number of beans. Then what? Do you and the jar guy sit together and count all the beans in the jar? That would take a while I guess. Or do you just trust the jar guy? In any case, I guess the guy knows the exact number of the beans in the jar, right?

Another question, as you mention, is how did Sam convert the sequence of six numbers into the number of jellybeans in the jar. Did anyone come up with a plausible answer for this?

Cheers,
avon

[Ida Monster]

If anything, she could turn out to be Kate's mom who we saw as a waitress in the fbs. I highly doubt that its Sara, why would a doctors wife work as a waitress ?
I was entertaining the thought that Libby was the waitress that Diego's wife ran off with. Yeah, I know she's a clinical psychologist, but ya have to pay the college bills somehow.

I've also wondered if the radio tower was actually a Wardenclyffe Tower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wardenclyffe_Tower) aka a Tesla Tower.

[LOST ONE]

Did anyone notice the man in the background behind Lenny when Hurley was talking to him? The man was clutching a teddy bear.

[Ida Monster]

Ok, this got me thinking... how does this "jelly beans in a jar" thing work? I mean, somebody has this big ("the size of a pony") jar full of beans, then you place your bet and name the number of beans. Then what? Do you and the jar guy sit together and count all the beans in the jar?
It's a classic carnival game, the hook usually is that you have to trust the carny. That's how he makes his money. The carny may have wanted to get rid of his cash "pony" quickly and took a loss.

For more reading on past threads about the beans try these:

Do we know beans about the numbers? (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3660)

When Lenny used the numbers (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6803)

(note: submitter incorrectly identified Lenny instead of Sam as using the numbers)

[ZIA]

Did anyone notice the man in the background behind Lenny when Hurley was talking to him? The man was clutching a teddy bear.

I did notice the guy for the 1st time ever-and oddly enough I have probably seen "Numbers" over 20 times now.

GO STEELERS!
Zia

[ZIA]

Ok, this got me thinking... how does this "jelly beans in a jar" thing work? I mean, somebody has this big ("the size of a pony") jar full of beans, then you place your bet and name the number of beans. Then what? Do you and the jar guy sit together and count all the beans in the jar? That would take a while I guess. Or do you just trust the jar guy? In any case, I guess the guy knows the exact number of the beans in the jar, right?

Another question, as you mention, is how did Sam convert the sequence of six numbers into the number of jellybeans in the jar. Did anyone come up with a plausible answer for this?

Cheers,
avon
4,815,162,342

[sals]

4,815,162,342


Do you have any idea how much space 4.8 billion jelly beans would occupy?


Me neither but as soon as I eat this recently delivered pizza and drink some cabernet, I'll figure it out.

[imaguestage]

Do you have any idea how much space 4.8 billion jelly beans would occupy?


Who ever said they were "jelly" beans? Mrs. Toomey said they were only "beans." You have to be careful with your assumptions on this show.

[Subject # 4815162342]

*quote edited out-see below*

....welllllll...Did you notice the guy behind HURLEY who had his face pressed up against a world map with his nose right on the island????

ok,I embellished it a bit,but go back and take a look!....again,I gotta say:
"Anyone got screencaps?"

[Subject # 4815162342]

Did anyone notice the man in the background behind Lenny when Hurley was talking to him? The man was clutching a teddy bear. oops.....this was the guy I MEANT to quote:yeah:


....welllllll...Did you notice the guy behind HURLEY who had his face pressed up against a world map with his nose right on the island????

ok,I embellished it a bit,but go back and take a look!....again,I gotta say:
"Anyone got screencaps?" __________________

[Pyotroos]

Do you have any idea how much space 4.8 billion jelly beans would occupy?
If we assume that size of one bean is about 3cm^3, and multiply it by 4.8G, it'll be almost 0.15 km^3. So jar with the bottom's diameter of 50m would have to over 7m high :D

(unless I screwed something up :P)

[sals]

Who ever said they were "jelly" beans? Mrs. Toomey said they were only "beans." You have to be careful with your assumptions on this show.

Point taken....


Jelly beans: 15 could occupy a cubic inch (generous). 4.8 billion occupies 321 million cubic inches. A space 57x57x57 feet.

The little white beans my wife makes soup with, whatever they're called they taste good: 30 per cubic inch. 4.8 billion....a space 45x45x45 feet.

Cramming 50 of anything per cubic inch: 38x38x38 feet.

A 3, 4 or 5 story building as wide and deep as it is high.


Now I will attempt to do this with beer bottle caps.....if you don't hear from me for a while, I'm still doing research.

[Evilrabbit]

I think some beans are alot smaller than that. Assume they were small beans, and if each bean was only 1/3 cm^3, 4815162342 would still be 1605 m^3, which if the jar was square would be like 10 m x 10 m x 16 m. No pony is that big. More likely he multiplied the numbers together, which gives a jar 2.5 m^3 in volume. Sounds about pony-sized to me.

....welllllll...Did you notice the guy behind HURLEY who had his face pressed up against a world map with his nose right on the island????
]ok,I embellished it a bit,but go back and take a look!....again,I gotta say:
"Anyone got screencaps?"

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=305&pos=319
This guy? The thing he's holding barely looks like a map, and it has a huge green patch on it. The island is wayyy out in the ocean, not that close to a continent.

[ZIA]

Do you have any idea how much space 4.8 billion jelly beans would occupy?


Me neither but as soon as I eat this recently delivered pizza and drink some cabernet, I'll figure it out.
You better start drinking now! LOL
zia

[ZIA]

Point taken....


Jelly beans: 15 could occupy a cubic inch (generous). 4.8 billion occupies 321 million cubic inches. A space 57x57x57 feet.

The little white beans my wife makes soup with, whatever they're called they taste good: 30 per cubic inch. 4.8 billion....a space 45x45x45 feet.

Cramming 50 of anything per cubic inch: 38x38x38 feet.

A 3, 4 or 5 story building as wide and deep as it is high.


Now I will attempt to do this with beer bottle caps.....if you don't hear from me for a while, I'm still doing research.
Happy research this weekend too!!
Zia

[avon]

4,815,162,342
I guess you missed the word "plausible" in my question. ;)

[ZIA]

I guess you missed the word "plausible" in my question. ;)
Yeah, I guess that would encompass one big-ass pony, right?

[Subject # 4815162342]

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=305&pos=319
This guy? The thing he's holding barely looks like a map, and it has a huge green patch on it. The island is wayyy out in the ocean, not that close to a continent.
Um....no,look further back.....the guy standing with his back to the camera.......this shot doe'snt do the 'map' justice,but he's staring right at the south Pacific...with his face just a few inches away from the map and he does'nt move at all in the entire scene.

[ZIA]

Um....no,look further back.....the guy standing with his back to the camera.......this shot doe'snt do the 'map' justice,but he's staring right at the south Pacific...with his face just a few inches away from the map and he does'nt move at all in the entire scene.
I can't tell if it's the South Pacific or not-it looks like the middle of a Continent to me...but you have a great eye! I didn't notice the guy at all.
Zia

[Subject # 4815162342]

I can't tell if it's the South Pacific or not-it looks like the middle of a Continent to me...but you have a great eye! I didn't notice the guy at all.
Zia

....it's much more evident when you watch the scene on video....the still shot just does'nt convey the pronounced obviousness of where on the map he's looking like the DVD footage does.

[Subject # 4815162342]

.....and then again,I could be entirely wrong!......he could be looking at Japan for all I know,but watch the scene if you have the DVD or whatever and tell me it does'nt seem to be more than a coincidental action for a 'background extra' to be doing in this particular scene.

[ZIA]

.....and then again,I could be entirely wrong!......he could be looking at Japan for all I know,but watch the scene if you have the DVD or whatever and tell me it does'nt seem to be more than a coincidental action for a 'background extra' to be doing in this particular scene.
I have the DVD's and I will watch for this scene. You know, I have probably seen them all at least 10X each and not once noticed him. So weird, isn't it?
Z

[ekoistheman]

beans

[Subject # 4815162342]

HOLY CRAP

Ok.....now I got out my dvd and watched again......*bites nails*....I think I was wrong.

I think that may not even BE a world map.It may just be abstract art suitable for the walls of a nuthouse.

I thought it was a map while watching it the other day and had one of those Lost "WOW" moments and had to share it....but now that I've rechecked(and went off on a crazy wild tangent,dragging you all with me) it seems that I was most likely altogether mistaken.


Sorry :sigh:

[piterpol]

Hello friends, I am Mexican living in México City and I have found some singularities in the famous LOST-Numbers among them the most interesting follows, let me put it these three ways:
1. The sum of the inverse of each "LOST-Number" divided by 4 is equal (converges) to the inverse of 7:

(1/4+1/8+1/15+1/16+1/23+1/42)/4 = 1/7
or,

2. The sum of the inverse of each "LOST-Number" multiplied by 7/4 is equal (converges) to unity:

(1/4+1/8+1/15+1/16+1/23+1/42)(7/4) = 1
or,

3. Four (4) divided by the sum of the inverse of each "LOST-Number" is equal to 7:

4/(1/4+1/8+1/15+1/16+1/23+1/42) = 7

[AtHomeMomToo]

(Oh man! That is WAY too much Math for me!!! :hyper: )

I notice a lot of people are trying to figure out whether Hurley was a patient in the mental hospital. I remember a scene later on in which Hurley is talking to Jack and offhandedly makes some remark about being in a psych ward. I don't remember Hurley's words, but I do remember Jack's response: "YOU WERE IN A PSYCH WARD???" LOL Hurley just shrugs it off because whatever he is talking about is more important ... but if he wasn't a patient wouldn't he have said so, or at least offered a quick explanation? Does anyone else remember the context of this scene or have the script for it?

[ZIA]

(Oh man! That is WAY too much Math for me!!! :hyper: )

I notice a lot of people are trying to figure out whether Hurley was a patient in the mental hospital. I remember a scene later on in which Hurley is talking to Jack and offhandedly makes some remark about being in a psych ward. I don't remember Hurley's words, but I do remember Jack's response: "YOU WERE IN A PSYCH WARD???" LOL Hurley just shrugs it off because whatever he is talking about is more important ... but if he wasn't a patient wouldn't he have said so, or at least offered a quick explanation? Does anyone else remember the context of this scene or have the script for it?
I think it was from Season 2 Ep1; 1 or 2 which are scheduled to re-air on Feb. 22nd. (rumor has it...)

[SilverBeetle]

Hi all. I'm new here, and after reading ALL the posts relating to this episode, I'm surprised no one mentioned what I'm about to relate.

When Danielle mentioned she heard the numbers being repeatedly broadcast (not to mention Sam & Lenny listening to them) what she was referring to is real. That is, there are radio broadcasts originating in various locations all over the world, including in the oceans, that do nothing but broadcast voices repeating individual or sequences of numbers. There are also stations that repeat numbers or letters in Morse code. I read about them in a book called Big Secrets, or one of its sequels: Bigger and Biggest Secrets. The book features a list of all the stations the author knew about, and what letters or numbers they broadcast. They're all on shortwave, and should be listenable by anyone with a shortwave receiver. If anyone's interested I could post the info.

[Hodgepodge]

SilverBeetle, let me welcome you to Lost-TV. I'm sure you're going to enjoy the community. Make sure to read the Welcome forum, it's easy to get lost. Now to your post.


...When Danielle mentioned she heard the numbers being repeatedly broadcast (not to mention Sam & Lenny listening to them) what she was referring to is real. That is, there are radio broadcasts originating in various locations all over the world, including in the oceans, that do nothing but broadcast voices repeating individual or sequences of numbers. There are also stations that repeat numbers or letters in Morse code. I read about them in a book called Big Secrets, or one of its sequels: Bigger and Biggest Secrets. The book features a list of all the stations the author knew about, and what letters or numbers they broadcast. They're all on shortwave, and should be listenable by anyone with a shortwave receiver. If anyone's interested I could post the info.We actually did discuss this phenomenon. It was probably an individual thread somewhere in GDA. I'm sure it's long gone. But if you'd like, you can do a search in our Remembrance of Things Past (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=37) board.

And again, :welcome:

[equinox]

Hi all. I'm new here.
Hi. Welcome.

and after reading ALL the posts relating to this episode, I'm surprised no one mentioned what I'm about to relate.
Actually, this thread here was the short thread written during the summer re-runs. The big original episode threads for season 1 were half erased and the other half sits somewhere in the archives section.

there are radio broadcasts originating in various locations
If anyone's interested I could post the info.
It's a good observation, but believe us it has been posted many, many times. There are also quite a few websites about it. Let that not stop you if you want to discuss it more in depth, however. Like Hodgepodge said, you can probably find some of the threads about it through a search in the general discussion areas.

[Oleta]

Just watched DVD.

I thought it was odd that when Lenny stopped repeating the numbers and stared at Hurley, someone in walks behind Lenny holding a large ball. The ball is being held against the man's stomach and he is holding it in the way a pregnant woman holds her belly. I didn't see this man anywhere else in the flashback. It's very odd to me that they would have someone in the background at a critical moment such as this (when lenny snaps out of it and is scared/warns Hurley).

There are no screencaps of this on lost-media.

Is this a reference to Claire somehow?

[Oleta]

The man standing extremely closely to the picture (some say map) on the wall is gone when lenny has his outburst. Check out lost-media.

[Hodgepodge]

Just watched DVD.

I thought it was odd that when Lenny stopped repeating the numbers and stared at Hurley, someone in walks behind Lenny holding a large ball. The ball is being held against the man's stomach and he is holding it in the way a pregnant woman holds her belly. I didn't see this man anywhere else in the flashback. It's very odd to me that they would have someone in the background at a critical moment such as this (when lenny snaps out of it and is scared/warns Hurley).

There are no screencaps of this on lost-media.

Is this a reference to Claire somehow?
The man standing extremely closely to the picture (some say map) on the wall is gone when lenny has his outburst. Check out lost-media.Oleta, is this the same person in both your posts? If we never get to see this persons face, I'd discount any symbolism. JMO!

[Oleta]

No, not the same person. If I am remembering correctly, the two men have different shirts on. The man who walks behind Lenny has a shirt like Locke or Ethan.

[Demsu]

Did anyone notice that Sayid said "It's the middle of the night Jorge" My friend pointed this out =)

[Hodgepodge]

No, not the same person. If I am remembering correctly, the two men have different shirts on. The man who walks behind Lenny has a shirt like Locke or Ethan.Can you provide us with screencaps of the two men?


Demsu, let me welcome you to Lost-TV. I'm sure you're going to enjoy the community. Make sure to read the Welcome forum, it's easy to get lost. Now to your post.


Did anyone notice that Sayid said "It's the middle of the night Jorge" My friend pointed this out =)You're going to have to be more specific than this! What were the circumstances of the conversation between the two of them?

And again, :welcome:

[amazingfan92]

The wife of Sam said that Sam & the mental person were on a island in the South Pacific watching & listening to static. Could the have been in the Pearl. The person they heard 16 years ago was Danielle. Maybe

[Hodgepodge]

Amazingfan92, let me welcome you to Lost-TV. I'm sure you're going to enjoy the community. Make sure to read the Welcome (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2)forum, it's easy to get lost. Now to your post.


The wife of Sam said that Sam & the mental person were on a island in the South Pacific watching & listening to static. Could the have been in the Pearl. The person they heard 16 years ago was Danielle. MaybeLets review that particular dialog from Numbers!

Martha tells Hurley! "Sam and Leonard were stationed at a listening post monitoring long wave transmissions out of the Pacific. Boring job. Sam hated it, nothing to do but listen to static night after night. Until one night, about 16 years ago, there's something in the static, a voice comes through, a voice repeating those numbers over and over again." Sam and Leonard were in the U.S. Navy stationed at Kalgoorlie, Australia, when they heard the numbers. Also, remember Danielle says she changed the original message (numbers) to her distress call. So, it wasn't Danielle Sam and Leonard heard.

And again, :welcome:

[SimonO]

Is it me, or does the guy on the ladder at the psyche ward look identical to Fenry? I actually would go as far as saying it is Fenry.

The scene is where Hurley shouts at the guy to "leave the bulb for another time, man".

Is there any way to find out, for sure?

[equinox]

Is it me, or does the guy on the ladder at the psyche ward look identical to Fenry?
It's you, I would say. :) I don't think they look identical.

Is there any way to find out, for sure?
It depends what you mean by "find out". Maybe compare a picture of each on lost-media?

On the other hand, the guy on the ladder is identical to one of the survivors of the crash on the island (one of the background non-speaking characters). In fact, it is the same actor (Fuzzy Moody). See redshirt #91 in clayseason1's excellent redshirts thread:
Redshirts! Redshirts! Who is that redshirt? (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2934)

[Hodgepodge]

Is it me, or does the guy on the ladder at the psyche ward look identical to Fenry? I actually would go as far as saying it is Fenry.

The scene is where Hurley shouts at the guy to "leave the bulb for another time, man".

Is there any way to find out, for sure?You're not the only one who saw a resemblance. We even got a nice comparison screencap (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=508613&postcount=221). But we came to the conclusion, it wasn't the same person.

[equinox]

Here's a link to a clear picture, not of the character, but of the actor that portrays the lightbulb guy:
http://www.hawaiianstuntconnection.tv/images/profile_fuzzymoody.jpg

[SimonO]

Thanks for the info, guys.

Watching the DVD, it was one of a few "must pause" moments because at first glance and even on freeze-frame it looked awfully like a chubby Fenry.

The Numbers episode has so many "must pause" moments and I think whoever does the casting for Lost is one sneaky son of a gun.

[3519273540]

I want to say this here before I forget.

This episode makes it clear that Hurley was in the institution _before_ he won the lottery. In which case it is not possible that Libby was there after his money.