EPISODE 20 ---- DO NO HARM

[truffula]

Now that the DVDs are out, I have done my second runthru.
All my other second runthru notes up to this ep are in the DVD discussion thread.

The original thread can be found here:
p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm40.showMes sage?topicID=29.topic (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm40.showMes sage?topicID=29.topic)

Here are my notes from BOTH my first and second runthru of Season One for this episode:

LOST Season One - Episode 20 - Do No Harm
Jack Backstory #2

No Eye opening - Boone is dying (The Final Boone Bashing)
Collapsed lung, Jack punctures

FB 1 - Jack dresses best man, Warren Silverman.
Jack revealed as groom

Mike says raft will be done in a week or less
"Hunting boar they never seem to get" says Sawyer about Locke annd Boone (You ALMOST had one in Outlaws)
Locke just took off after dropping Boone off to Jack
Kate takes all of Sawyer's alcohol for Boone - he gives it to her freely (no more alcohol - for timeline)

FB 2 - Jacks wedding rehearsal dinner
A little over 2 years before wedding, Sara had car crash, and Jack fixed her.

Jack sets Boone's leg (ouch)
Kate finds Claire having contractions in jungle
Kate calls for help - somehow Jin hears her - they must not be that far in.
He recognizes the words HELP, PLEASE.
Question for Boone - what is your blood type?
Answer from Boone - A negative
Sayid romances Shannon "are you LOST?" she says to him (haha)
"I don't know my bloody blood type" - Charlie (Dom is just too much!!)
Jack gives Boone transfusion

FB 3 - Jack waits for Dad.
Fioncee Sara wears #44 (or 4 and 4)on her pajamas, plays Heart and Soul on piano with Jack. Jack can play piano (he was playing something classical when fioncee - Sara arrived)
Jack struggling to write vows

Jin gives alcohol to Jack, and returns to Kate with Charlie in tow; this gives us 4 people involved in Aaron's birth (Claire, Kate, Charlie, Jin)
and the 4 in Boone's death (Jack, Boone, Sun, Michael)
Claire's water breaks - it's time.
Boone's answers - it fell on me, a plane. cause of the hatch, we found a hatch. John said not to tell about the hatch. (calls for Shannon)
Shannon tells Sayid that Boone is in love with her - she says they were 8 and 10 when their parents married.
Kate has to deliver baby, she says "I can't deliver THIS baby"
(I still suspect Kate of something - bad)

FB 4 - Jack drinkin at pool with Christian (out of bottle - vodka i think)
Christian shows up, grabs bottle and swigs, Jack says nothing.
Jack is drunk as hell.
QUESTION - is this the same night as the piano song? i think so...
Commitment is what makes Jack tick, problem is letting go. (I think whatever they find in the Hatch is gonna practically Force Jack into letting go of his scientific logic so to speak)

Jack wants to amputate Boone's right leg.
"Don't tell me what I can't do" - 3rd time we hear this line - Jack to Sun about saving Boone. Sun doubts Jack's intentions.

FB 5 - Jack and Sara's wedding
The wedding appears to be in Hawaii, lots of islands, and tropical stuff
Jack didn't write vows - Does he go through with wedding? (I think yes, but it doesnt last very long, maybe even hours or days)

"I'm letting you off the hook" - Boone to Jack (3rd time we hear this too?)
Boones last words - Tell Shannon....
Claire delivers NORMAL baby boy, not an alien, no horns, no tail.
Claire gives birth - Boone dies (the island giveth, the island taketh away)
Show ends with LOST theme in its entirety (btw, this is my absolute favorite theme) as Claire shows the baby to the beach camp, Jack tells Shannon about Boone, Shannon cries, Jack goes after Locke.
LOST.


And so begins Truffula's POST EXPLOSION. :eek
Here they come....

Discuss On.
Peace,
Truff

[Lost In His Eyes]

this gives us 4 people involved in Aaron's birth (Claire, Kate, Charlie, Jin)
and the 4 in Boone's death (Jack, Boone, Sun, Michael)

I never thought about that. There must be some kind of significance as to why those people were the ones involved in those events. Not meaning Claire and Boone, I mean the people that are with them during the birth/death.


Shannon tells Sayid that Boone is in love with her - she says they were 8 and 10 when their parents married.

So, Shannon was 8 when their parents got married? Shannon's the younger one, right? Anyway, Sawyer was 8 when is mom and dad died... hmm...

(I think whatever they find in the Hatch is gonna practically Force Jack into letting go of his scientific logic so to speak)

I think you're right! I guess we'll find out when we see what's in the hatch, if Season 2 ever starts! :rolleyes

[Hodgepodge]

truffula says:...Kate takes all of Sawyer's alcohol for Boone - he gives it to her freely (no more alcohol - for timeline)...Remember from Outlaws, Kate has carte blanche when it comes to anything she needs from Sawyer's stash.


Lost In His Eyes says:So, Shannon was 8 when their parents got married? Shannon's the younger one, right? Anyway, Sawyer was 8 when is mom and dad died... hmm...You know LIHE, I never thought of this. Good catch!

An aside! This episode wasn't very high on my Fav list. If I think about it, neither of Jack's episodes were very high!

[truffula]

Hodge - I don't consider Kate's asking Sawyer for the alcohol as her Carte Blanche. I look at it more as Sawyer being more Human, not so much of a jerk. He cares for the life of another, and if he can help by giving up his booze, he will.

Now, onto rerun notes....consider I've done the whole season already in runthru two, and these additions are coming from watching the RERUN. You can find something new, or at least find something that tweaks your line of thought about one thing or another, each time you rewatch an episode.
I think when we know it ALL. When it's OVER, we'll look back on these episodes and say, "Wow, it was ALL right there all along". Mark my words.

- 1st FB when Jack asks Mark if he's okay, he replies "I will be after a few drinks"...Jack "she'll catch you"...Mark "I'll brush my teeth"...Jack "she'll catch you". This alcohol reference confuses the hell out of me. It seems Jack is against the drinking/dishonesty to wife, but then he's getting loaded while waiting for his father to show up, and on top of that gives dad (with the reputation of being a drunk, at least to Jack I would assume at this point, but maybe not) the Bottle!

- Checking to see if the FB with the piano is the same night as Jack and Christian drinking poolside - IT IS. Jack is wearing the same shirt in both scenes.

- THEORY: Because KATE delivered Aaron, he is now somehow safe/no longer "special"/no use to them (so they take Walt instead). "I can't deliver THIS baby" says Kate, then she gives this look like 'this is gonna screw EVERYTHING up, and with Jin and Charlie here it's gonna be even HARDER to do anything about it'.

- I was thinking about the timeline (Jack's wedding was before the incident at the hospital with his father) when I thought of this: Wedding->Divorce, or Breakup, or...
DEATH->hospital incident.
I think Sara's death (and if it's a car crash with THE car, I will roll!:rollin ) would be a MAJOR point in Jack's life, and another example of him struggling to "let go".

- I am SOOO glad Jack didn't chop off Boone's leg. After the lung, and the setting of the leg scream....no more, PLEASE.

- Why show a FB of Jack's WEDDING as he's about to cut off Boone's leg?

- (just cause I actually wrote this down as I watched)...
HOLY CRAP NEW SEASON TWO PROMO!! (scribble)
I tried to write down "Quarantined" but it all happened so fast, and I was in Awe. Luckily they showed it again after Exodus.

Keep em comin folks, this is our last chance before SEASON TWO!!!!
13 days, 20 1/2 hours til S2!!!!

[Chinamom]

Apologies if this has been previously discussed...it took me 3 viewings of this ep for me to figure this out. At least, I think I have it figured out and would appreciate some confirmation:

When Locke brings Boone to the caves and tells Jack that Boone fell off a cliff, Jack says something about Boone's leg fracture--I think he says it's a compound fracture? (does that mean bone is protruding through skin?) and then later, Sun helps Jack set the broken leg (can't remember if this is before or after Jack realizes the leg is crushed).

Then, when the transfusion isn't working because "blood is pooling in the leg," Jack realizes Boone's leg is crushed, and then begins the grisly decision to amputate Boone's leg.

At the end of the ep, Jack says he's off to find Locke because Boone was murdered. I'm getting ahead of myself here, but in Exodus Part 2, when Jack confronts Locke, Jack says he treated Boone based on Locke's lie about Boone falling off a cliff.

SO (whew, sorry)...if I have this right, if Jack had known that Boone fell with the plane and that his leg was crushed and not just broken, how would he have treated Boone differently so that he might not have died? Skip the transfusion and go right to the amputation? Or was Boone doomed anyway?

Thanks for confirmation, corrections, and clarification!

ETA another question: Is Jin supposed to have super-hearing? I can think of a couple other scenes in which the cameras sort of whirled around him as he was listening (as they did here when he hears Kate crying for help).

[equinox]

I thought of this: Wedding->Divorce, or Breakup, or...DEATH->hospital incident. I think Sara's death (and if it's a car crash with THE car, I will roll!) would be a MAJOR point in Jack's life
I think we should certainly expect something like that, for example Sarah dying on an opertation table, or being pregnant when she died, or both. Of course, it's still possible they just broke up.

[equinox]

Jack says something about Boone's leg fracture--I think he says it's a compound fracture?
According to Spooky's transcript, he says it's a "it's a closed fracture".

(does that mean bone is protruding through skin?)
No, that would be an open fracture, just the opposite.

Jack says he treated Boone based on Locke's lie about Boone falling off a cliff.
if I have this right, if Jack had known that Boone fell with the plane and that his leg was crushed and not just broken, how would he have treated Boone differently so that he might not have died? Skip the transfusion and go right to the amputation?

Basically, Jack "treats" Boone based on his own guess about what type of fracture it might be. My impression about it is that Jack _wants_ to blame Locke for Jack's own ignorance in this case, or at least for the uncontrollable situation that does not allow Jack to have the necessary diagnostic tools and treatment facilities available on the island. Jack wants to blame Locke for everything, so in this particular case he wants to believe, and wants other people to believe, that a different information from Locke would have made a difference in the treatment and in the outcome. However, the problem is not so much with Locke's information. There's absolutely nothing automatic in that a fall from a cliff would result in a simple fracture and a fall inside a plane would result in a crushed bone. One can easily imagine a fall from a cliff resulting in a crushed bone (with big rocks falling on the leg) and a fall inside a plane resulting in a simple fracture. Of course, a detailed description by Locke of exactly what was the situation of Boone's leg just after the accident may have helped. But the problem is that Jack applied a treatment without knowing what he was doing, however much he wants to try to shift the blame on Locke after the fact and after he has realized that his treatment did not work. For all we know, even if Locke had told Jack about the plane, Jack could very well have made exactly the same guess about the fracture and applied exactly the same treatment and met exactly the same failure. He would just have had to find another excuse to shift the blame elsewhere. Now, for the last part of your question, if Jack had had the possibility of knowing for a fact, or if he had guessed, that the bone was crushed, we're probably supposed to think he would have gone right to the amputation, although we can doubt the result that would have had under the circumstances, especially with someone who had already lost a lot of blood and who was already in need of a transfusion.

[acovell]

Truffula says;

- 1st FB when Jack asks Mark if he's okay, he replies "I will be after a few drinks"...Jack "she'll catch you"...Mark "I'll brush my teeth"...Jack "she'll catch you". This alcohol reference confuses the hell out of me. It seems Jack is against the drinking/dishonesty to wife, but then he's getting loaded while waiting for his father to show up, and on top of that gives dad (with the reputation of being a drunk, at least to Jack I would assume at this point, but maybe not) the Bottle!

Since this happened before Jack had his tattoos, I think we can safely assume that he may not have come to the conclusion that his dad was an alcoholic yet. He seemed desperate to have his father there and to get his approval. I don't think Christian had fallen off the pedestal just yet.

austriel says:

Basically, Jack "treats" Boone based on his own guess about what type of fracture it might be. My impression about it is that Jack _wants_ to blame Locke for Jack's own ignorance in this case, or at least for the uncontrollable situation that does not allow Jack to have the necessary diagnostic tools and treatment facilities available on the island.

I agree. Jack's blaming Locke for it because he "can't let go". Boone's injuries were so severe, nothing could have saved him. Had Jack had the proper diagnostic equipment, he might have known that sooner, but, in the end, I don't think it would have made any difference. Boone would still have died. Whatever was needed to save his life -- if it could have been saved -- was simply not available on the island.

[acovell]

Something has been niggling at me from the first episode, and it solidified for me in this one. It has to do with Kate. Kate is one of my favorite characters (I feel the need to say this since so many people seem to dislike her).

There are times when Kate seems uber-capable, and other times she stands there like a deer caught in the headlights. In the pilot, she's wandering around after the crash with more than just a dazed look on her face -- there's more to it than that. Then last night, when Jack told her to go get alcohol from Sawyer, she just stood there, staring at Boone with the same look on her face until Jack yelled at her and she snapped out of it. Is this the same girl who shot the guy in the bank, was willing to carry dynamite, and volunteers for every possible dangerous situation without a second thought?

It could just be shock, I suppose, and I may be reading more into it than there is. However, I think it's the key to what's going on with Kate. A lot of people will disagree with me, I'm sure.

Okay -- enough backpedaling. Kate's behavior reminds me of Hurley's behavior -- always trying to help; always trying to make everyone else's lives easier; taking risks that anyone in their right mind would avoid. So, my guess is that Kate sees herself as Hurley sees himself -- a jinx; a pariah. When the plane crashed, the look on her face was one of acknowledgment -- this is my fault. I can't deliver the baby -- not because I'm afraid to or because I don't know how, but because something bad will happen to them because of me. I'll carry the dynamite because nothing will happen to me -- it's those around me that die.

This may mean that Kate has used the numbers, too. The difference is that she just doesn't know it like Hurley does. Suddenly, so much of Kate's background becomes clearer. She's on the run because she causes pain and death to those around her, so she doesn't think she can stick around. Her mother's afraid of her because she believes Kate's a jinx and maybe even blames her for her cancer. She's probably being blamed for the death of someone that wasn't her fault, which is why the law is after her. Even her conversation with Tom about the time capsule makes more sense. Tom tells her she's always running away from things. She says to him "and you know why" -- meaning her belief that she's a jinx.

This is the only thing, for me anyway, that makes any sense. It's the only thing that squares her behavior in her FB's to her behavior on the island. She's not fearless -- she may appear to be, but she's not. She, like Hurley, knows nothing's going to happen to her. However, she truly fears for the people around her because they're in jeopardy just by her being there.

[acovell]

Well. I certainly have a lot to say about this episode, don't I. Sorry. I can't help myself.

Other observations and questions:

Claire is the only person Sawyer ever offers anything to. Apparently, he's a soft touch for a pregnant woman.

Sun sure knows her way around an "emergency room." (She set Boone's leg; she knew what plant Jack needed to make a needle; she can see when Jack needs a break -- like a really good nurse.)

Jin hears Kate screaming before we do. Super hearing.

Boone says: Locke said. . . . John said not to tell. I can't quite figure that out. Certainly, Jack would know who "Locke" was. Why did Boone need to clarify by saying "John"?

Shannon wants to take it slow with Sayid. Must be the first time that's ever happened. . . .

Jack says to his dad, "What if I can't be the husband or father I want to be?" Was Sarah pregnant when they get married, or was that just a general question?

Jack says in his vows -- "I didn't fix you. You fixed me." How did Sarah "fix" him?

[equinox]

acovell wrote:
Boone says: Locke said. . . . John said not to tell. I can't quite figure that out. Certainly, Jack would know who "Locke" was. Why did Boone need to clarify by saying "John"?
Bonne wanted to express his sense of sympathy with John Locke. In general, calling someone by his first name denotes more friendship, whereas calling someone by his last name denotes a desire to keep a psychological distance. Boone has come to know John Locke and trust him. And he doesn't hold anything against him after the accident, despite the negative spin Jack would like to place on the situation.

[acovell]

austrasiel said:

Bonne wanted to express his sense of sympathy with John Locke. In general, calling someone by his first name denotes more friendship, whereas calling someone by his last name denotes a desire to keep a psychological distance. Boone has come to know John Locke and trust him. And he doesn't hold anything against him after the accident, despite the negative spin Jack would like to place on the situation.

That works. Thank you.

[thoughtform]

acovell, I completely agree with your analysis of Kate. For the longest time I have thought that Kate suffered from the same "curse" as Hurley. Being a danger to those around her. That is why she has no attachments to people, only to things. I also think it's possible that Kate and Huley aren't the
only ones on the island with this going on.

Edited to add :

Did anyone notice that Jack barely seems able to think for himself at all. He basically regurgitates everything his father says. He may be an extremely committed doctor, but his emotional development is severely stunted.

[truffula]

Just want to add about Jin's "super hearing"...

He does NOT have super hearing.
If you crank up the volume on the DVDs (with full surround sound) very faintly on the wind you can hear Kate's cry and Jin react to it, in that order.
Watching the rerun on my tv with no surround sound, yeah, it totally looks like Jin reacts first, then we hear Kate.
Just my 2 cents (although this opinion is my 2 bucks cause I'm 99% sure about this one - the 1% being that the writers can do ANYTHING out of NOWHERE)

[lostmio]

Acovell: she truly fears for the people around her because they're in jeopardy just by her being there.

Given the choice, I'd sooner ride shotgun with Hurley than with Kate if there's a vehicle involved. Tom, the farmer, the marshall... no wonder mom Diane screamed, she was on a wheeled gurney!

[LoStMyMiNd]

How did Jin know how far apart the contractions were?

[Hodgepodge]

truffula asks:...- Why show a FB of Jack's WEDDING as he's about to cut off Boone's leg?...I've always assumed the combination of these two events went to amplify Jack's inability to let go. Remember, he asks his father whether he should marry Sarah. Now probably this thought goes through every man's mind the night before his wedding. But Jack's confusion was different. He was deciding whether he loved her or not.


chinamom says:...SO (whew, sorry)...if I have this right, if Jack had known that Boone fell with the plane and that his leg was crushed and not just broken, how would he have treated Boone differently so that he might not have died? Skip the transfusion and go right to the amputation? Or was Boone doomed anyway?...I remember asking the same quesiton when the episode first aired. And although I'm no doctor, Jack's in a jungle with no medical equiptment (X-ray, MRI, etc..). I don't think knowing exactly how Boone was injured would've changed the outcome. JMO!


acovell says:...Jack says to his dad, "What if I can't be the husband or father I want to be?" Was Sarah pregnant when they get married, or was that just a general question?...Good catch Acovell! TPTB could definitely play this out with Jack losing both Sarah and baby.

[LoStMyMiNd]

Maybe there was something mentally wrong with Sarah or maybe she had a terminal illness that we don't know about and thats why he couldn't let her go. Maybe he was still trying to "fix" her by marrying her. We'll never know until he has another flashback with Sarah in it

[Hodgepodge]

Totally possible ODammet! You got to admit though, the idea of telling a continuous story using flashbacks was ingenious.

[Clabbers Man]

I guess I looked for a black sense of humor in the writers on the 'we've got to amputate boone's leg' and the wedding flashback. We've all heard about wives being referred to as 'ball and chains'..? The severance of the leg reminds Jack of the severance of his marriage maybe?

About Kate and the 'deer in the headlights' symptom sometimes. I like Kate a lot too as a character, so I always took the hesitation to be the wheels were spinning in her mind trying to assess the situation (not just the immediate one, the bigger picture) and make a thoughtful instead of rash choice. I think there's more to her background than we are aware of (ties back to her father and mother), and so it takes her a moment sometimes to clarify her thoughts/potential actions.

Just my two cents. Is it the 21st yet???

[clayseason1]

I discussed this with truffula and truff said this had already been discussed but I can't find the discussion.

Contrary to the prior discussion's "findings" , I think this is Hurley and his mother arriving at the same hotel that Jack's wedding party was staying at. This is the scene where Jack and Sarah are seated at the piano and they glance over at an arrival - Jack hoping it's his dad. Here's the arrival.

Arrival (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-9/385878/lost.120.hdtv-lol.%5Bbt%5D05%20142.jpg)

Here's a composite close up of the woman arriving and a shot of Hurley's mom from the car scene in numbers.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-9/385878/hurleymomcomp.jpg

Now from these photos, one might say that although the resemblance is there, a positive identification can not be determined (and I would agree). But - let's add a shot of the passenger in the front seat of the taxi.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-9/385878/hurleyintaxi.jpg

Given the hair, profile and girth of that passenger - I would say that is more than likely - Hurley.

Adding the two together, I am confident that this is Hurley and his mother.

This goes a long way in establishing time line and connections.
Hurley won the lottery about a year before the crash - 2003.
Jack and Sarah got married a little over 2 years after her operation - which would also include a little over two years since Jack *spoiler for int'l posters - highlight to read* met Desmond in the stadium.
This would make the operation about 2000-2001---- 3 to 4 years before the crash (the same amount of time that Kate has been on the run).

This would also connect Sarah - Rutherford - Jack - highlight Desmond - Hurley.

Truffula also mentions that the wedding probably took place in Hawaii. I agree that Hawaii is a possibility, but so is Florida. There are wedding planners Florida based Hawaiian style weddings (http://www.alohabyana.com/pages.php?page=04/10/30/8650754) that decorate Florida weddings with Hawaiian decorations. (Note: Hurley's accountant mentioned that Hurley made more money due to the tropical storms in Florida and his orange stocks)

[Sledgeweb]

I'm gonna go with it NOT being Hurley and his mother. Definitely doesn't appear to be the mother, and inconclusive on Hurley. Given that most americans are obese, there isn't any reason it isn't just another large guy.

[clayseason1]

Thanks for the input Sledge. I do appreciate your opinion as I know you try and research possibilities.
However, I am still of the opinion that this is Hurley and his mother *spoiler for those still on season one - highlight especially after the confirmation of the Desmond/Jack time frame of 3 years as mentioned in 2.3 episode. *
I'm going to continue to search for definite substantiation - one way or the other. :D

[Danakin]

However, the problem is not so much with Locke's information. There's absolutely nothing automatic in that a fall from a cliff would result in a simple fracture and a fall inside a plane would result in a crushed bone. One can easily imagine a fall from a cliff resulting in a crushed bone (with big rocks falling on the leg) and a fall inside a plane resulting in a simple fracture. Of course, a detailed description by Locke of exactly what was the situation of Boone's leg just after the accident may have helped. But the problem is that Jack applied a treatment without knowing what he was doing, however much he wants to try to shift the blame on Locke after the fact and after he has realized that his treatment did not work. For all we know, even if Locke had told Jack about the plane, Jack could very well have made exactly the same guess about the fracture and applied exactly the same treatment and met exactly the same failure.
Locke could have told Jack a lot more. Locke knew more than 'he fell inside a plane'. Locke saw the fall. He knew that Boone was at the front of the plane, and didn't actually fall very far. He knew that Boone was buried by all the cargo that fell on top of him. He didn't tell Jack that. If he had, Jack would have been pretty confident it was a crushing injury, and probably a comminuted fracture.

Look, Locke should have stayed and told Jack all he knew about how Boone was injured. Instead, he ran off to the hatch. Would Jack have saved Boone, if he knew what Locke knew? Maybe, maybe not. We don't know. Even if the odds had been against Boone to start with, Locke's doing a runner shot them further.

Locke did wrong. Maybe I realise this because I'm not a Locke fanboy like so many others?

[AGuyNamedSteve]

Locke did wrong. Maybe I realise this because I'm not a Locke fanboy like so many others?

I'm guessing Locke did what was written in the script, which required a story line that included Boone dying in a situation had better information possibly allowed him to live.

[Hodgepodge]

Locke could have told Jack a lot more. Locke knew more than 'he fell inside a plane'. Locke saw the fall. He knew that Boone was at the front of the plane, and didn't actually fall very far. He knew that Boone was buried by all the cargo that fell on top of him. He didn't tell Jack that. If he had, Jack would have been pretty confident it was a crushing injury, and probably a comminuted fracture...Danakin, I asked this question when the episode first aired. What would've Jack done differently? Now, I'm not a doctor, so it maybe obvious to someone with medical training. But out in the jungle, with what he had to work with, I can't imagine the outcome being any different. JMO!

[YouFirst]

I liked the little reference to what Jack said in "The Pilot" they threw in here, where Jack talked about his little breathing ritual he does when he's scared.
Pretty darn sad episode... I was sadder than I thought I would be when Boone died, and the montage to finish made a nice ending, but sad at the same time.

[Ellaroo]

Watched this ep. on Wednesday. I knew from this site that Boone died..and didn't think it would bother me.

But I thought it was really sad..not ashamed to say I shed a tear at the end...but I'm a bit of a tiny tears anyway.

I agree with Hodgepodge...what could Jack have done had he known Boone had crush injuries. I guess he would have known that a blood transfusion would be a waste of time....but he still couldn't have saved him. I do like the fact that unlike other shows I've watched...main characters are killed off. When Charlie was revived I thought it was a sign that they weren't going to let any of the main characters come to any real harm. I was wrong...and that's good.

So Jack knows Locke didn't tell the truth about how Boone got the injuries and therefore he thinks Locke is to blame. I did wonder why Locke didn't give more details. I assume he was in shock, and probably knew Boone wouldn't survive his injuries. We know it was an accident...I can't help wondering where they are taking us with this.

Loved the scenes at the end too...the circle of life.

[Danakin]

Danakin, I asked this question when the episode first aired. What would've Jack done differently? Now, I'm not a doctor, so it maybe obvious to someone with medical training. But out in the jungle, with what he had to work with, I can't imagine the outcome being any different. JMO!

On the information he had (that the injury was from a fall), Jack would have guessed it was a simple closed fracture. In fact (because it was caused by a crushing force), it was probably a comminuted fracture, with more general tissue damage than might have been immediately apparent.

Jack is a doctor, and any doctor would treat those two cases differently.

The outcome may or may not have been different. We don't know.

But what we do know is that Locke is no doctor, and it was not for him to judge what Jack did or did not need to know. The right thing for Locke to do would have been for Locke to stay and tell Jack exactly how he had found Boone and what had caused his injuries.

He did not do the right thing. From this I conclude that Locke is not a moral man.

[YouFirst]

Hodge I agree with you. I think in the circumstances in which they were in there wasn't a way Jack could save Boone. His injuries were just too bad for Jack to work with, without the right equipment.
It's all part of Jack learning he can't save everyone IMO.

[Ellaroo]

Youfirst:

It's all part of Jack learning he can't save everyone IMO.

Good point........I totally agree.

Danakin:

The outcome may or may not have been different. We don't know.

Yes...you're right..we'll never know. But I think Jack's anger is just misplaced - and links back to the point Youfirst makes.

[xXxJessiexXx]

I really loved this one it was so sad! I think we see how determin Jack really is as a person and how dedictaed he reallt is. He wants to please everyone, save everyone and be everyones hero. But he now learns he cant!

Like you said we dont know if Locke had mentioned the plan weather the outcome would have been different. Its highly likely it wouldnt be, i mean like Boone said look where they are... what chance dot hey really have.

Locke didnt really lie did he. If you think about it he was partly telling the truth. Boone did fall from a cliff, he just failed to mention that Boone was in a plane at the time. My guess is that Locke didnt miss that detail out intentionaly, the state he was in it would have been hard for anyone to recall and retell exactly what happend. He told Jack the main thing that he fell off a cliff, which he did.

I think Jack is just looking for someone to blame. He believes that he based his medical treatment on what locke told him but truth is there wasnt much more he could do either way. They are both dealing with grief in their own different ways. Locke, running away form problems, and Jack, fighting back finding someone to blame.

[Hodgepodge]

...I think Jack is just looking for someone to blame. He believes that he based his medical treatment on what locke told him but truth is there wasnt much more he could do either way. They are both dealing with grief in their own different ways. Locke, running away form problems, and Jack, fighting back finding someone to blame.So true xXxJessiexXx!

[bubblybob52]

Hi y'all. I'm a new Lostaway, reeling from 20 episodes in 2 weekends. Great Stuff, and I thoroughly enjoy all the Episode dialogue here.

Have to pose this, regarding ep20, that I surprisingly didn't see referenced here (apologies if it's been already hashed out):

Only Boone distinctly heard the transmission reply ("We're survivors of Oceanic 815") - Locke was likely too far away, what with all the groaning of the plane about to crash. It was not apparent that Boone shared this with anyone, as he was in and out of consciousness til the end. So with Boone's death goes this incredible piece of info, that no other of Our 815'ers, knows of. But the responders...????

[Hodgepodge]

Bubblybob52, let me welcome you to Lost-TV. I'm sure you're going to enjoy the community. Make sure to read the Welcome forum, it's easy to get lost. Now to your post.


Hi y'all. I'm a new Lostaway, reeling from 20 episodes in 2 weekends. Great Stuff, and I thoroughly enjoy all the Episode dialogue here.

Have to pose this, regarding ep20, that I surprisingly didn't see referenced here (apologies if it's been already hashed out):

Only Boone distinctly heard the transmission reply ("We're survivors of Oceanic 815") - Locke was likely too far away, what with all the groaning of the plane about to crash. It was not apparent that Boone shared this with anyone, as he was in and out of consciousness til the end. So with Boone's death goes this incredible piece of info, that no other of Our 815'ers, knows of. But the responders...????You're exactly right! Boone never gets a chance to tell anyone of the discovery.

Now, because I'm into S2, I happen to know what happens. So Bubblybob52, hurry up and join us. Finish S1, and get started on S2. We'll meet up soon!

And again, welcome!

[mickyd]

My only question in my review of Episode 20 from my Xmas gift, "season one on DVD", is why did Jack, in referance to the needed transfusion, refer to blood type "O negative" as the universal donner when indeed "O positive" carrys that title..! Can there be some reverse polarity going on here that we are missing?

[Lostgirl_70]

i am always going to love this episode. every time i watch it, it makes me tear up. i just loved the interaction btw jack and boone. matthew fox and ian somerhalder did brilliant. i just wished there would have been some commentary for that episode.

[Ultraman444]

I'm surprised to see that nobody posted this here (unless I missed it). At the end of this episode when everyone is on the beach around Boone, you can clearly see Jack's father in the background. The camera seems to follow his head as he walks behind the group on the beach. Anything to this?!

[Hodgepodge]

Ultraman444, let me welcome you to Lost-TV. I'm sure you're going to enjoy the community. Make sure to read the Welcome forum, it's easy to get lost. Now to your post.


I'm surprised to see that nobody posted this here (unless I missed it). At the end of this episode when everyone is on the beach around Boone, you can clearly see Jack's father in the background. The camera seems to follow his head as he walks behind the group on the beach. Anything to this?!Not sure if anyone else caught that. Can you provide us with some screencaps?

[Jason and the ARGonauts]

This episode was an array of whimsical joy and sadfulness sadness. Anbody going to agree with Meeeeeeeee?

[Ultraman444]

Ultraman444, let me welcome you to Lost-TV. I'm sure you're going to enjoy the community. Make sure to read the Welcome forum, it's easy to get lost. Now to your post.


Not sure if anyone else caught that. Can you provide us with some screencaps?

Thanks for the note. Here's a screencap. The camera follows him as he walks behind the crowd.

http://img23.imagevenue.com/loc22/th_10c94_lostjackfather.jpg (http://img23.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc22&image=10c94_lostjackfather.jpg)

[lostdrewski]

That's not Jack's father. That guy has been in several scenes as one of the "extra" survivors. And that guy looks disheveled, whereas other shots of Jack's dad in previous episodes has him cleaned up and in his suit.

[Hodgepodge]

Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with Lostdrewski. No one in that screencap is Christian Shepard.

Ultraman444, you might want to take a look at our Redshirt! Redshirt! Who is that Redshirt? (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2934) thread. Clayseason1 and several members in the thread are trying to name all the background characters.

[Ailuri]

My only question in my review of Episode 20 from my Xmas gift, "season one on DVD", is why did Jack, in referance to the needed transfusion, refer to blood type "O negative" as the universal donner when indeed "O positive" carrys that title..! Can there be some reverse polarity going on here that we are missing?

Actually, O negative is the correct universal donor. This is because the O means the blood carries neither the A or B antigen and the negative means it doesn't carry the Rh antigen. No antigens means nothing for the donee to reject/have an immune response against.
O positive can give to any other positive, but not to anyone who is Rh negative, since a Rh negative person's body will reject the Rh antigen.

[Hodgepodge]

Ailuri, let me welcome you to Lost-TV. I'm sure you're going to enjoy the community. Make sure to read the Welcome forum, it's easy to get lost. Now to your post.


Actually, O negative is the correct universal donor. This is because the O means the blood carries neither the A or B antigen and the negative means it doesn't carry the Rh antigen. No antigens means nothing for the donee to reject/have an immune response against.
O positive can give to any other positive, but not to anyone who is Rh negative, since a Rh negative person's body will reject the Rh antigen.Yeah, what Ailuri said! :yeah:

And again, :welcome:

[Lost_RuNNeR]

O neg is also a quite rare blood type, if i'm not mistaken...

[Fish1941]

From "Do No Harm":

[Wedding rehearsal scene. Marc is handing the mic off to Sarah.]

Marc
And here she is, the future Mrs. Jack Shepard.

Sarah
Thank you. Wow, can I get another microphone? I think this one's been drinking. I little over two years ago, I blew a tire out - flipped over the center divider into oncoming traffic, and was hit head-on by an SUV. My back was broken. They all said it was irreparable. And then there was Jack. And he promised he would fix me, because that's the kind of guy he is. Because you are the most committed man I have ever known - because you fixed me, I will dance at our wedding. To Jack, my hero, Jack.

When I first saw this episode, I thought that Sarah's speech at the wedding rehearsal was so romantic. But after seeing it for a second time - just recently - I finally realized how . . . chilling that speech was. It really showed how much Sarah had idolized Jack . . . and how she ended up disappointed in their marriage, as indicated in the flashbacks from Season 2's "The Hunting Party".

[Hodgepodge]

From "Do No Harm":



When I first saw this episode, I thought that Sarah's speech at the wedding rehearsal was so romantic. But after seeing it for a second time - just recently - I finally realized how . . . chilling that speech was. It really showed how much Sarah had idolized Jack . . . and how she ended up disappointed in their marriage, as indicated in the flashbacks from Season 2's "The Hunting Party".I agree Fish! She thought it was love, instead if was adoration and payback. She said it herself. Thanks for fixing me Jack!