Thoughts on Kate

[Mcanical]

So my co-worker and I have been discussing Kate this morning like I'm sure all of you have.

Here is our take on her:

She is compassionate
She is more than helpful
She is attracted to both good and bad men
She is strong
She has skills, ie: how to use a gun, fight, poison (Helping Sun)
She can track
She has several identities

She didn't kill anyone out of anger, only out of an oops. When she did the bank job she pulled the gun one her crew to stop them from killing the Banker.

We believe that she is actually an undercover CIA agent or FBI Agent or the like.

She seems to be very proficient in a lot of things. More so than someone who has had no training.


Anyway, just some thoughts.

Mcanical

[azteclady]

Since I hadn't seen you before, allow me to welcome you to the community, Mcanical!

I'm moving this to Kate's forum, and encouraging you to check Theories and Speculations - there are plenty of Kate threads over there!

Enjoy!

[cinderellabop]

Nice thoughts, Mcanical! May I recommend that you continue your conversation in this thread: The men are more likable (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm2.showMess age?topicID=2746.topic) and help me defend Kate there.

However, I'll need to move this thread to Kate's forum. I'll leave it open for the time being, though.

[azteclady]

*evil cackle* too slow, cinderellabop! You need to look lively, girl!

heh

[Mattie]

*laugh*

[Hodgepodge]

Mcanical, you forgot her sailing knowledge. Remember, she's trying to get a place on the raft, and she tells Michael she should replace Sawyer.

For some reason, I can't buy the CIA/FBI agent thing. It seems to easy to stop running. Call her headquarters and tell them she wants to be brought in. Seems to simple.

[scrapnel]

yeah i disagree with the agent thing too. for one thing, you know how much crap jj abrams would get for that cuz of alias. it would be weird. and just too much of it doesnt seem like she would be. we never see her contact any handler or anything (and yeah, i know they probably wouldnt flat out show us, but they would give hints, you know with this show they would) and her methods are...i dunno. something about that theory just seems very wrong to me.

also, a question i guess. the tape from this weeks episode was recorded in 1989. 16 years ago. but the kids sounded about 13-15 (mainly judging from the boy), which would make kate 29-31. does this age time line seem strange to anyone else?

[Hodgepodge]

scrapnel says:...also, a question i guess. the tape from this weeks episode was recorded in 1989. 16 years ago. but the kids sounded about 13-15 (mainly judging from the boy), which would make kate 29-31. does this age time line seem strange to anyone else?
I took them to be a little younger, like 12 and 10. Which would make her about 26 today. Doesn't that seem about right?

[LostInWilderness]

Who believes Kate has sailing knowledge? Raise your hand. Explain to me why you believe it please? Because she's so honest?

[azteclady]

Mcanical, please also check out the other threads here dealing with Kate - there are several interesting and heated debates going on.

Hodgepodge, I'm with scrapnel and LostInWilderness here (and not just because I'm a woman spurned, okay?) - I mean, just because Kate says she's got sailing experience now it's a fact that she does?

After Born to Run, every single thing Kate has said or done should be taken out again, and dissected under a microscope, and what's left should be taken with a large grain of salt.

[ThatHippieKid]

also, a question i guess. the tape from this weeks episode was recorded in 1989. 16 years ago. but the kids sounded about 13-15 (mainly judging from the boy), which would make kate 29-31. does this age time line seem strange to anyone else?
I took them to be a little younger, like 12 and 10. Which would make her about 26 today. Doesn't that seem about right?

I agree with hodge... the boys voice sounded too high to have gone through puberty, so 10-12 sounds about right.

[Hodgepodge]

azteclady says:Hodgepodge, I'm with scrapnel and LostInWilderness here (and not just because I'm a woman spurned, okay?) - I mean, just because Kate says she's got sailing experience now it's a fact that she does?...Is a woman spurned, a woman of little forgiveness?

For some reason, I believe her when she talks about her skills. Can she shot? I wouldn't want her mad at me. Can she track? I wouldn't want her looking for me. I like to sail as well, and she mentioned J-boats, she sounded for real.

[Mattie]

I love how she acted as if knowing how to sail would help on that raft.

The mast isn't exactly like a sailboat's, Kate. And there's no engine or steering wheel, you know.

[Gambit980]

Did anyone else notice that when she went down the tunnel and she ask Locke what to say if something went wrong, it seemed out of place. She defintly has some kind of covert background.

[Homer Noodleman]

Yes, that and her reaction to his reply struck me. I took it as another one of her little slips, and then her registering the fact that Locke didn't know why she would ask that.

[KateSheppard]

Well I'm thinking back to the timecapsule thing she dug up with Tom. The capsule itself was a New Kids On the Block lunchbox. That was around 1990-91 if memory serves. So since I lived through that era, and remember having one of those myself, I'd probably say that kate is between 26-30 if she was a teenager at that time.

[Prof_Frink]

did u know that tom is sean astin's brother, so kate is kissing a hobbit and the other hobbits brother.

[ok_girl]

I think that she has covert training in the least, and have been rewatching the episodes and noticed some interesting things between her character and Sydney on Alias. I know there have been lots of postings on this, but I think it is plausible that if she doesn't work for the FBI/CIA, etc, then maybe she is still in this kind of work, but not for any government, per se. We've heard the is "dangerous" but from abstract sources, never from anyone we know anything about. The "Marshall" obviously didn't trust her, but who was he working for anyway? I just wanted to put my vote in for Kate being more than meets the eye.

[Hodgepodge]

OK_Girl, let me welcome you to Losttv-Forum. I'm sure you're going to enjoy the community. Make sure to read the Welcome forum, it's easy to get lost. Now to your post.


I think that she has covert training in the least, and have been rewatching the episodes and noticed some interesting things between her character and Sydney on Alias. I know there have been lots of postings on this, but I think it is plausible that if she doesn't work for the FBI/CIA, etc, then maybe she is still in this kind of work, but not for any government, per se. We've heard the is "dangerous" but from abstract sources, never from anyone we know anything about. The "Marshall" obviously didn't trust her, but who was he working for anyway? I just wanted to put my vote in for Kate being more than meets the eye.I definitely agree with you, there's more to Kate.

But if I'm not mistaken, a marshal coming after you has something to do with some City, State, or Federal police agency. So, she's suspected of something, and there's the rub. What could she have possibly done to have a U.S. Marshal going to such lengths to track, find, and return her to the U.S.A.?

And again, welcome!

[Prof_Frink]

It would be very provacative if kate seduced all the people she encountered, like the marshall and the farmer. that would make for an interesting show.

[ileslie]

We are coming up on a long awaited episode about Kate and her crime(s?), so I thought it would be a good time to try and pull together what I (we) know. Very little is probably original on my part.

The listing below is not in any particular order of importance, but rather the order I remembered them in.

I encourage you to add other items to this list, and of course your thoughts. I couldn’t stop you anyway. :) I will edit this post with contributor's name so that all we be in one place.

Some of these thoughts (7) have already posted.

1. The marshal says he’s been chasing Kate for 3 years and that Tom was killed 2 years ago. Clearly the ‘crime’ happened before Tom was killed, so Kate was already on the run. (Exodus I)

2. On Kate & Tom tape Tom says: “You always want to run away, Katie.” Kate replies: “Yeah, and you know why.” This suggests a family problem that might tie into Kate’s crime (BTR).

3. When Tom is in the hospital getaway car (his), but still OK, he tells Kate to turn herself in. He says “I am not letting you do this. Katie, if you cooperate they go easy. . . “ (BTR). To me this suggests that the earlier crime involves Kate knowing something the authorities are interested in.

4. When Kate is forced by Sawyer to confess her criminal background, Kate says she will go to jail. IMO there is no question that it is a jail type offense (rather than a capital crime). (BTR)

5. Between themselves Kate and Tom refer to Kate’s mother as Diane. Only when Kate is with her mother does she call her ‘Mom’. Kate and Tom have known each other for a very long time. If Kate had said “My mother has cancer.” Tom would know exactly who she was talking about, unless Kate’s real mother is elsewhere (dead or alive). Seems oddly impersonal to me. Is Diane Kate’s stepmother? (BTR)

6. Marshal tells AU official that Kate called him at his home and was “taunting” him. To me this really seems like a very personal take by the marshal on what Kate was doing. If there is no more history between the marshal and Kate than law enforcement and criminal, then Kate’s taunting would be “You can’t catch me, na, na, na …” That is not the Kate I’ve come to know. Thus, IMO, Kate’s taunting is more in the marshal’s mind. In Pilot Part1 the marshal says to Kate: “You know, there's always that off chance that they'll believe your story. I know I sure did.” This puts him in turmoil, and he calls it taunting. (Exodus I) By the way, JacksGirlfriend once posted “I think the Marshall was married to Kate.” IMO this fits nicely with everything we've seen between Kate and the marshal.

7. At the beginning of Born to Run there is a brief scene of a women and child coming out of a motel room heading for their van. It appears that the woman is punching the child. The ‘father’ is following behind a ways seemingly unaware of what is happening. Is this meant to be some sort of hint for the audience? I rewatched this scene. It is an older sister and her brother hassling each other. The scene is meant to show us that the door to the motel room is left open.

Open questions of mine.

1. How did Kate get the safety deposit key? Why would the marshal pick a rural New Mexico bank? How would Kate know which bank the sd box was in?

2. When Kate picked up the letter as Jane Heart, who sent the letter, why was she crying, why the cash money?

3. Kate told Sawyer she was married (didn’t last long); however, it would seem that Tom was the one she loved (and got killed unintentionally). Who was she married to and what went wrong?

4. When Kate was deliverying the flowers to Diane/Mom she was told to go to room 208. Hommer N has said that the policemen was sitting outside Diane's room. I can't read the room number (out of focus). Do others think that the policemen was infron of Diane's room? If so then the cops were expecting Kate?

5. Who wrote the letter to Kate (with money enclosed) that made her cry? I could read some of the letter and it points to Diane's health problems. Any good screen caps? We would need a few because different words come into focus in different frames. Well I found some good stuff on the letter on another site (http://www.lost-forum.com/showthread.php?t=7103)

Kate characteristics IMO.

1. Kate is quite physical: climbs trees, tracks well, and handles guns very well.

2. Kate can be concerned for other people’s lives: put oxygen mask on marshal, pulled Ray, the AU farmer, from his rolled and burning pickup truck, digging Jack out of cave-in, going back for Jack after monster and nose section terror, very compassionate for Sawyer in Collision, …

3. Kate can lie or allow people to be misled: Many lies while on the run (fake names), bank robbery, didn’t correct Sun about why she suggested making Jin sick, …

[42Bambi]

I think Kate was married to the Marshal.......why was he chasing her for 3 years??? She said she was married but she doesn't talk about it-she tried to save him on the plane-it seems like a LOST plot twist.............:) :confused:

[ManofAdventure]

Maybe for a twist, they're brother and sister or uncle and niece. With this show, anything goes.

[ileslie]

This has already been suggested by JacksGirlfriend. My post on Kate with various thoughts can be found here (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=219917#post219917).

[admwrlk]

On Kate & Tom tape Tom says: “You always want to run away, Katie.” Kate replies: “Yeah, and you know why.” This suggests a family problem that might tie into Kate’s crime (BTR).
Kate's Mom, or Diane, or whoever, is scared to see Kate. Kate's original crime might be that she killed her father because of abuse. She's on the run, and eventually is responsible, sort of, for Tom's death. The Marshall sets up safety deposit box with Tom's airplane, waiting for Kate to take the bait. If so, why does noone in the bank recognize her when she comes in to take out a loan? Is this bad TV or another wrinkle?

[ileslie]

admwrlk, I'm thinking now that the marshal didn't know that Kate knew where the toy plane was until after she robbed the bank. This means that Kate obtained the info in some surreptitious way. Why the marshal put it there in the first place escapes me. Perhaps we'll find out on Wednesday.

[Elms]

6. Marshal tells AU official that Kate called him at his home and was “taunting” him. To me this really seems like a very personal take by the marshal on what Kate was doing. If there is no more history between the marshal and Kate than law enforcement and criminal, then Kate’s taunting would be “You can’t catch me, na, na, na …” That is not the Kate I’ve come to know. Thus, IMO, Kate’s taunting is more in the marshal’s mind. In Pilot Part1 the marshal says to Kate: “You know, there's always that off chance that they'll believe your story. I know I sure did.” This puts him in turmoil, and he calls it taunting. (Exodus I) By the way, JacksGirlfriend once posted “I think the Marshall was married to Kate.” IMO this fits nicely with everything we've seen between Kate and the marshal.

I think there certainly is something more to the Kate/marshall "relationship" that isn't just Marshall vs criminal. Whatever went down over the last few years between them, he took it very personally. He took great pleasure in taunting her about Tom and his toy plane during the finale last season. He was just nasty about the whole thing. He knew it would get a reaction out of her so he could put her in her place. He liked proving he had the power over her then. It would be interesting if we were to find out he was the guy she was briefly married to. Some of his personal remarks would make much more sense.

[ileslie]

ELms, I once asked the question about whether the marshall was old enough to be the father of Tom or Rachel (Tom's wife). There is no evidence for this, but would be another possible reason why the marshal seems to be taking things so personally.

[Brian]

This has already been suggested by JacksGirlfriend. My post on Kate with various thoughts can be found here (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=219917#post219917).
Thanks ileslie. I will merge this thread with that one.

Please continue there all. Thank you.

[Name's ASH... Housewares]

I definitely agree with you, there's more to Kate.

I posted this earlier...
Could it be that Kate had formal military training (Ranger)? Maybe she is following in her step dad's foot steps. She does know how to use a gun and kick ass pretty well. Plus three officers/marshall's to arrest her in a bus station? Maybe thats a little bit too much, maybe it's not.

[ileslie]

I have to wait until tomorrow to get this download, but for those with a fast connection you might be interested now. Someone on lost-forum.com has put together a wmv file consisting of all of Kate's FBs. I don't yet know how well done it is, but if good enough it is a heck of a way to get the Kate story in one big gulp. He says it lasts almost as long as a regular episode. Since it is only 40MB it will be highly compressed. Go to his post here (http://lost-forum.com/showthread.php?t=23408) for the link to the wmv file.

I've 'hidden' this down here for those really interested in Kate.

[I Like Freckles]

I have to wait until tomorrow to get this download, but for those with a fast connection you might be interested now. Someone on lost-forum.com has put together a wmv file consisting of all of Kate's FBs. I don't yet know how well done it is, but if good enough it is a heck of a way to get the Kate story in one big gulp. He says it lasts almost as long as a regular episode. Since it is only 40MB it will be highly compressed. Go to his post here (http://lost-forum.com/showthread.php?t=23408) for the link to the wmv file.

I've 'hidden' this down here for those really interested in Kate.
Thanks! That rocks.

[lostmio]

I have to wait until tomorrow to get this download, but for those with a fast connection you might be interested now. Someone on lost-forum.com has put together a wmv file consisting of all of Kate's FBs. I don't yet know how well done it is, but if good enough it is a heck of a way to get the Kate story in one big gulp. He says it lasts almost as long as a regular episode. Since it is only 40MB it will be highly compressed. Go to his post here (http://lost-forum.com/showthread.php?t=23408) for the link to the wmv file.

I've 'hidden' this down here for those really interested in Kate.

Thanks, can't wait to watch it.

[lostmio]

Anyone who's got the S1 DVD and is interested:

It sure looks like Kate palmed the toy plane into the lunch box, in Born to Run, after digging it up but before getting back into the car.
I had been hearing this for a few months but didn't think much of it and only recently got the DVD.

I can't cap it on this puter. The apparent palm is at 23:46, when she & Tom are standing beside the car.

Interesting because
1) We know that Kate can and does palm things (from Whatever the Case May Be)
2) Born to Run implied Kate had trust issues with Tom in that she did not let him out of her sight until she was with Diane. Within a few minutes after he left, the state police were there and it's been reasonably speculated that he called them.

Why she'd have the plane and palm it, and what it could mean, I haven't a spec or even a clue. That's why I'm posting it here and not in T&S.
It's a Kate thing. Just thought I'd mention it in case anyone else wants to take a look at it...

edited to clarify: I should have said she appears to palm something into the box. You see a glint of silver, or a reflection, in her hand as she does it. The only other thing in the box that would small/flat enough is the cassette tape. Since Tom says he didn't put the plane in, it's the best candidate. On the other hand, young Tom mentions putting it in. What else would Kate have put in the box? It's very confusing.

[ileslie]

lostmio, Not surprised to find you here. I have the kate.wmv file but haven't looked at it yet.

Didn't Tom say that Kate made him put the plane in the box? This was before they listened to the tape. However, on the tape it seemed clear that it was Tom's idea. In fact, didn't Kate ask him why he wanted to put the plane in?

Since you just watched Born to Run, weren't all the items from the lunch box on the seat of Tom's car? As if they were left there from the night before? If this is true then the marshal may not only have gotten his hands on the plane, but the tape as well. If he didn't get the tape, then Kate may have taken it earlier. It seemed to me that she had no time to grab anything as the police were closing in after the crash.

[lostmio]

On the tape, young Kate says she can't believe Tom wants to put the plane in. That's why I don't know if it was the plane she was planting, even tho the folks who pointed it out to me swear it is. (Of course I swore she didn't palm anything, but that was before I got the dvd.)

After Kate flees, we see the edge of the box lid, the plane, the cassette tape case (can't tell if the tape's in it or not), the ball cap, and the minnie mouse spilled out on the backseat. There may have been other items, who knows? Kate could have grabbed something, there's a long time gap uncovered by the editing cut, but we don't know.
Beats me.
The plane on the back seat is NOT the plane Kate's holding later on the island, but I'm not gonna go there now.

[ileslie]

This is a bit off topic, but I am looking for any more clues. So this is stricly a fishing exercise. On lost-media.com are a couple of pictures of Kate helping Wayne. One picture (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&meta=lastup&cat=0&pos=0) shows them walking through the house. Wayne has a big belt buckle on, big enough that it might say something. Who knows, maybe he won it bronk riding. Anyway, if someone could get a higher res screen cap, then we could have a looksee.

I think I better only lurk on the Why I STILL don't trust Kate thread. ;)

[lostmio]

I noticed Wayne's buckle too, and speculated it's a rodeo prize buckle but couldn't get a clear enough zoom on it to tell for sure...

[lacenaire]

http://img347.imageshack.us/img347/138/katehouse9jh.th.jpg (http://img347.imageshack.us/img347/138/katehouse9jh.jpg)


The octogonal box
The black horse figurine
And the boy's picture

The box in Swan Station

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/8921/box5pt.th.jpg (http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/8921/box5pt.jpg)

[LostInWilderness]

You might want to post the boxes in the official octagon thread in GD.

[plastique]

Wayne has a big belt buckle on, big enough that it might say something. Who knows

Snatched a somewhat higher res of the belt here... http://x11.putfile.com/12/33716551929.jpg

[LostInWilderness]

Those belt buckles are a dime a dozen in Texas.

[ileslie]

plastique, thanks for the belt buckle pic (re. post #41). Now I can forget about it.

[lostmio]

Thanks, Plastique.
Looks like Wayne was a rodeo bull rider.

[KateShepard]

You might want to post the boxes in the official octagon thread in GD.

Oy more to ponder...

[Hodgepodge]

Lacenaire, this is an amazing find! Wondering whether this is a clue, or just the set-decorator running out of stuff to use. As KateShepard say, "oy more to ponder." And by all means, add your post to the "all things shaped" thread.

[Fish1941]

I have a theory about Kate . . . that she and Wayne had an extramarital affair, a few years earlier.

Kate once told Jack that she had killed the man she had loved. We all assumed that she was talking about Tom, the childhood sweetheart, whose death she had caused, while on the run. But what if she was not talking about Tom? What if she was talking about Wayne?

Think about it. Sawyer reminds her of Wayne, yet she is attracted to him. Why on earth would Kate be attracted to him, let alone torn between him and Jack, if he reminded her of Wayne? If Wayne had really been an abusive step-parent (or parent), then I could never see Kate becoming attracted to Sawyer in the first place. This would also explain Kate imagining Wayne (through Sawyer's body) demanding to know "why" she had killed him. And that she believes that Jack is much too good for her.

What if her disgust toward Wayne (and her reluctant attraction toward Sawyer) stems from the realization that she had been attracted to and had an affair with the very man who turned out to be her father? Or whom she now believes to be her father? I sometimes think that Kate might have a female version of a whore/madonna complex when it comes to Jack and Sawyer (and also of Sgt. Austen and Wayne).

[LostInWilderness]

Kate once told Jack that she had killed the man she had loved. We all assumed that she was talking about Tom, the childhood sweetheart, whose death she had caused, while on the run.
The toy plane belonged to the man Kate loved, to the man Kate killed. Tom.

[SpidermanHouston]

Thanks, Plastique.
Looks like Wayne was a rodeo bull rider.
Or he's just a fan of the University of Texas football team. :)

http://www.bucklesofestes.com/images/College/BKL460E%20Texas%20Longhorns.jpg

[Hodgepodge]

I have a theory about Kate . . . that she and Wayne had an extramarital affair, a few years earlier.

Kate once told Jack that she had killed the man she had loved. We all assumed that she was talking about Tom, the childhood sweetheart, whose death she had caused, while on the run. But what if she was not talking about Tom? What if she was talking about Wayne?

Think about it. Sawyer reminds her of Wayne, yet she is attracted to him. Why on earth would Kate be attracted to him, let alone torn between him and Jack, if he reminded her of Wayne? If Wayne had really been an abusive step-parent (or parent), then I could never see Kate becoming attracted to Sawyer in the first place. This would also explain Kate imagining Wayne (through Sawyer's body) demanding to know "why" she had killed him. And that she believes that Jack is much too good for her.

What if her disgust toward Wayne (and her reluctant attraction toward Sawyer) stems from the realization that she had been attracted to and had an affair with the very man who turned out to be her father? Or whom she now believes to be her father? I sometimes think that Kate might have a female version of a whore/madonna complex when it comes to Jack and Sawyer (and also of Sgt. Austen and Wayne).Oh Fish, you've got to read my Oedipus (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11583) theory. You might find it interesting.

[ileslie]

LIW, The toy plane belonged to the man Kate loved, to the man Kate killed. Tom. It seems to me there is a new thread in GD Flashbacks - Reliable or unreliable? (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11815) that allows anything to be possible. I bet I could come up with a scenario where Wayne had the toy plane, but Kate couldn't stand the idea so she made it a part of her history with Tom (assuming Tom actually existed). Can you see where this leads to? I'm sure you can. All this picking and choosing about what is "real" versus what is imagined or distorted, tells us more about ourselves then Lost.

[LostInWilderness]

Nobody thinks the flashbacks are madeup wholesale. I've been arguing the case for unreliable "witness" type flashbacks for a long time, and I'm glad Lace jumped in with his remarkably thorough analysis.

Kate knows who the plane belonged to - it belonged to Tom. Kate can't lie to us in a flashback, but she may well have an inaccurate memory of the events surrounding Tom's death. Maybe he grabbed the wheel, and her guilt repressed that part of the memory. Maybe Kate killed her 3 accomplices in the bank heist, but in her warped mind, she thinks she only wounded them. Maybe the box number was 814, but she remembers it as 815 because of the flight number confused that memory.

[Homer Noodleman]

The camera points at the people and we see what happens. There has been nothing credible put forward to assume otherwise.

Until there is a set of scenes put forward that clearly demonstrate a contradiction between two versions of the same event the inaccurate memory stuff has to be judged a crock. It allows people to make up any narrative they want when what they see on the screen doesn't match their expectations.

Worse, it would allow TPTB to feed us any baloney they wanted to by claiming things like, "Oh, you thought Kate robbed a bank? Naw, twas just a dream." That would also be the day their ratings would crash through the floor. I sure as hell wouldn't watch a show that played so fast and loose with the facts they presented me.

[LostInWilderness]

Until there is a set of scenes put forward that clearly demonstrate a contradiction between two versions of the same event the inaccurate memory stuff has to be judged a crock.

Unreliable memory.

The Jin and Sun flashbacks of Jin washing blood off his hands are distinctly different. The "facts" are the same, but the POV and the emphasis are different. This is long established.

[ileslie]

LIW, This weekend I'll rewatch those two Sun/Jin flashbacks you mention. If you post back, which episodes were they in?

My earlier sarcasm aside, let me look at just one FB you mentioned as a possibly unreliable memory.
Maybe Kate killed her 3 accomplices in the bank heist, but in her warped mind, she thinks she only wounded them.
The reason I don't think this is true is because the marshal never mentioned it to the AU official when he was explaining why he needs so many guns. It was a big point to leave out. Now, as I type this I see a way out for you and lacenaire. That FB is Kate's. So we can hypothesize that Kate is being consistent in her error. In other words, she better not have the marshal remember she killed one or more of her accomplices, or she'll loose her respectability (sorry, can't help the mild sarcasm). Given the wiggle room I've just provided, the FB of the marshal talking to Kate on 815 is really just showing consistency. The marshal spoke as if she might have a chance of getting off if 'they' believed her story. I find it hard to believe that killing 3 men, albeit armed robbers, could be excused when you were part of the crime. In other word, that alleged crime would dwarf any others, including killing Wayne. But maybe that is the way Kate is having the marshal remember things.

There is nothing to prevent any interpretation of the FBs, except our own biases. You said Nobody thinks the flashbacks are made up wholesale. As far as I can tell from reading in this forum, you are right. But why shouldn't someone assume that the FBs are madeup wholesale? The answer you provide will simply land on a continuum of rationalizations between fantasy and documentary interpretation of the FBs. Don't get me wrong, each of us will 'know' ours is the most reasonable, but we won't be able to prove it.

[Hodgepodge]

...Worse, it would allow TPTB to feed us any baloney they wanted to by claiming things like, "Oh, you thought Kate robbed a bank? Naw, twas just a dream." That would also be the day their ratings would crash through the floor. I sure as hell wouldn't watch a show that played so fast and loose with the facts they presented me.I agree Homer. I'd find something else to do on Wednesday nights as well.


LIW, This weekend I'll rewatch those two Sun/Jin flashbacks you mention. If you post back, which episodes were they in?Ileslie, those episode are, House of the Rising Sun and ...In Translation. The scene LIW is talking about is amazing.

[friskyFreak]

She has skills, ie: how to use a gun, fight, poison (Helping Sun)


HAHAHAHA! Kate used Sun to get what she wanted as usual. As far as I remember she convinced Sun to do that to get a place on the raft.

[Hodgepodge]

HAHAHAHA! Kate used Sun to get what she wanted as usual. As far as I remember she convinced Sun to do that to get a place on the raft.FriskyFreak, I've alway thought so myself. I'll go a step further! Kate didn't care which one of the rafters got sick. Jin, the intended victim, or Michael. What do you think?

[LostInWilderness]

Kate didn't care at all as long as she got a seat.

[ileslie]

Kate didn't care at all as long as she got a seat. Didn't care at all, or considered it a necessary evil? These things are a matter of degree. If one always considers everyone more than themselves they will probably get canonized.

[friskyFreak]

It was her goal to get that f... place on the raft. I think she didn't care at all but she wanted Jin was that person.

[azteclady]

I agree with ileslie that Kate probably considered the mild poisoning of one of the raft's crew a necessary evil, more than a completely irrelevant matter. I'll further speculate that she probably was happier with Michael indisposed than with Jin - remember, Jin does know how to man a seafaring vessel, Michael doesn't.

[LostInWilderness]

Kate probably considered the mild poisoning of one of the raft's crew a necessary evil, more than a completely irrelevant matter.
I'm sure she thought of the poisoning as a necessary evil, but I don't think she cared who got poisoned, Michael or Jin.

[Brian]

I'm sure she thought of the poisoning as a necessary evil, but I don't think she cared who got poisoned, Michael or Jin.
Of course she didn't care. Kate is only looking out for one person, and if I have to say it, well, we're all in trouble. All the more reason not to trust her any further than you can throw her.

[azteclady]

I will respectfully disagree with both of you, LiW and Leuthen. And actually, for the same reason you think she wouldn't care who got poisoned: if we accept that Kate is first and foremost looking out for number 1, then she'd clearly rather have the experienced fisherman on board than the construction worker/engineer wannabe/artist/inexperienced and paranoid father, woudln't she? I know I would!

[LostInWilderness]

Two pretty useful skills on the raft. I would imagine they packed enough food, so the engineer might be more important. I agree with your premise though, Kate would have preferred whichever one she felt more important, but that concern would dwindle in comparison to getting on in the first place.

[ileslie]

Leuthen says:Kate is only looking out for one person ... How does this statement square with Kate pulling Ray (farmer) from the burning truck? Or, if it doesn't, how many counter examples will it take before you modify your opinion of her?

[Brian]

How does this statement square with Kate pulling Ray (farmer) from the burning truck?

I'm talking about on the island, not pre-island. And as for my opinion about Kate, I love the character and the actress, as if that wasn't readily apparent, however, I still don't trust her, and I think that on the island, she is looking out for herself. Can that opinion change in time? Absolutely, my thoughts about the characters can change, but it's not something that one or two episodes is going to do. I'd be a fool to say I can't change my opinion about Kate, or that I won't. I have no idea what the future holds.

[Khan]

Kate is like one of Losts themes,black and white,when shes good shes very good but when shes bad watch out.

[Fish1941]

I think it was Wikipedia or another site that suggested that Kate was a sociopath. After watching "Whatever the Case May Be", I'm convinced that she is one.

[Khan]

And we're all surprised by that.

[LostInWilderness]

Do a search on
sociopath
subject lines only and you'll find this theory (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7752&highlight=sociopath).

[PhantomPhase]

I think it was Wikipedia or another site that suggested that Kate was a sociopath. After watching "Whatever the Case May Be", I'm convinced that she is one.

Yeah but she's a strong women as well.

[Brian]

Yeah but she's a strong women as well.
Not to mention extremely easy on the eyes! ;) *sigh*

[Zelmo]

Quoting the late, great Benny Hill:

"A woman like that could DESTROY a man .... if he was lucky!"

[Brian]

Quoting the late, great Benny Hill:

"A woman like that could DESTROY a man .... if he was lucky!"
OMG how true is that? :rotfl: Thanks Zelmo, that's a perfect quote for Kate.

[Fish1941]

Yeah but she's a strong women as well.

That doesn't dismiss my feeling that she's in serious need of a psychoanalyst . . . even more so than the rest of the Lostaways.

[PhantomPhase]

That doesn't dismiss my feeling that she's in serious need of a psychoanalyst . . . even more so than the rest of the Lostaways.

Nuh Uh, nooo sir. Kate's done some things but she's not the one who flew over the cuckoo's nest.

[LostInWilderness]

That doesn't dismiss my feeling that she's in serious need of a psychoanalyst . . . even more so than the rest of the Lostaways.
Dude, (I mean that in an asexual "Dude" way since I think you're a chick) they're pretty much each as bad as the other. ;)

[Homer Noodleman]

Hey, Kate's not so bad. After all, she only blew up one of her Dads.

[Fish1941]

Nuh Uh, nooo sir. Kate's done some things but she's not the one who flew over the cuckoo's nest.


I see that you're blinded by Kate's "attributes" and her "golly gee" eyes. Or maybe you need to watch "Whatever the Case May Be" over and over again. And add "Born to Run" and "What Kate Did" for good measure.

Dude, (I mean that in an asexual "Dude" way since I think you're a chick) they're pretty much each as bad as the other. ;)

Which goes to show how really screwed Kate is. Frankly, I think she's a walking psychopath and this is one viewer who won't cry if she ever bites the dust before the show ends.

[PhantomPhase]

Attributes, what attributes? We don't need no stinking attributes to like Kate. Are you blinded by Ana's attributes Fish?

[Fish1941]

Attributes, what attributes? We don't need no stinking attributes to like Kate. Are you blinded by Ana's attributes Fish?

Don't lie to me, Phantom Phase. Something must be blinding you, if you can't detect Kate's psychopathic nature. Does that mean that her "golly gee" eyes are doing the trick?

[PhantomPhase]

Nah, I don't look at her eyes. I'm too busy fantasizing about her bringing me breakfast in bed. ;)

[Fish1941]

Nah, I don't look at her eyes. I'm too busy fantasizing about her bringing me breakfast in bed. ;)

So, you are blinded. Thanks for confirming that.

[PhantomPhase]

No Fish1941, I was joking. I am not as rabid about Kate as some others, but I do like the actress, and the character, and I don't think you need to be nuts to kill someone. Say did you catch my pic of Ana on the toilet? It's pretty funny! :D

[LostInWilderness]

Frankly, I think she's a walking psychopath and this is one viewer who won't cry if she ever bites the dust before the show ends.
Kate and Eko are the most dangerous people on the island, and I hope they both stick around a long time.

[Brian]

:yeah:

[TheWatcher]

I am blinded by Leuthen's signature pic. Who cares if she blew up that old dump of a house with that nasty drunk in it. Who cares if she shot a couple of her bank robber friends, Who cares if she pulls steering wheels and causes a lot of car crashes...those eyes, that face, that body, that hair. I can over look all of that other stuff.

[Brian]

I am blinded by Leuthen's signature pic... I can over look all of that other stuff.
Thanks TheWatcher! Yes, I too can overlook the small stuff, so to speak. :)

[Hodgepodge]

I am blinded by Leuthen's signature pic. Who cares if she blew up that old dump of a house with that nasty drunk in it. Who cares if she shot a couple of her bank robber friends, Who cares if she pulls steering wheels and causes a lot of car crashes...those eyes, that face, that body, that hair. I can over look all of that other stuff.Ok! From now on, when someone ponders the question, "What's ASK all about?" I'm just going to give them this post as a link. TheWatcher, I could've said it better myself! :yeah:

[Fish1941]

Who cares if she shot a couple of her bank robber friends, Who cares if she pulls steering wheels and causes a lot of car crashes...those eyes, that face, that body, that hair. I can over look all of that other stuff.


I can't. And I do care if the Lostaways has a possible sociopath in their midst.

[PhantomPhase]

I can't. And I do care if the Lostaways has a possible sociopath in their midst.

They do and her name is Ana-Lucia.

[LostInWilderness]

I can't. And I do care if the Lostaways has a possible sociopath in their midst.
As long as Kate is still standing at the end. Or sitting. Or lying down in the surf I'll watch.

[Brian]

Ok! From now on, when someone ponders the question, "What's ASK all about?" I'm just going to give them this post as a link. TheWatcher, I could've said it better myself! :yeah:
Hodge, you could always just direct them to my signature picture. It's also a link to the ASK thread. But I agree, TheWatcher summed it up very nicely! ;)

[Fish1941]

They do and her name is Ana-Lucia.


No sweetie, her name is Kate Austen. Like Jack and Sawyer, you're probabbly blinded by her . . . attributes.:rolleyez: But that's okay. Most people aren't very sensible when it comes to a pretty face. I understand.

[Khan]

Since I'm straight and have no sexual interest in women so I'm not blinded but any "attributes" she may possess.
As a character Kate is one of the most complex TPTB have created. Unlike some of thier other badly thought out or less developed creations,Kate shows the work they put into show before it was ever presented.
She was transformed from thier original idea,but became better for it.Whatever they choose to show us concerning her,it's clear they want to keep the mystery going for awhile.The bone they threw us of her blowing up daddy dearest seems to be the tip of the iceberg.
From day one she has been a strong and independant,only lately losing her edge because TPTB keep playing the silly game of "will she or won't she" with Jack.Perhaps next season she'll go back to someone closer to the Kate we've come to know.

[PhantomPhase]

No sweetie, her name is Kate Austen. Like Jack and Sawyer, you're probabbly blinded by her . . . attributes.:rolleyez: But that's okay. Most people aren't very sensible when it comes to a pretty face. I understand.

Thank you once again Fish1941 for telling how and why I feel. And if you haven't noticed I've lost interest in Kate's attributes, technically T and A is the last thing on my mind at the moment. Do you mean I'm only sensible when confronted with an ugly face?

[mookie]

I really don't trust Kate.

[Fish1941]

Thank you once again Fish1941 for telling how and why I feel. And if you haven't noticed I've lost interest in Kate's attributes, technically T and A is the last thing on my mind at the moment. Do you mean I'm only sensible when confronted with an ugly face?

You said it, not me.

[PhantomPhase]

Is there like a Pepsi taste taste or something I could take to determine if you are correct?

[Hoo]

I'm newish, but Kate is my favorite character and I wanted to add a thought, so I figured that "Thoughts on Kate" would be as good a place as any to put it.

With all due respect to her many attribeauts, something I really like about Evangeline is her Canadian accent. I know she isn't supposed to have one (as Kate), but I get a real kick out of listening for slips. She has substituted "aboot" for "about" a few times this season, and, well, I think that's cute.

So?

[cautiousguyonlost]

Something tells me that she is not trustworthy or she cant tell the truth. She is just too evil. Im not sure if she should hook up with Sawyer or even Jack. Cause she just get them into trouble or even killed.

[azteclady]

cautionguyonlost, you should check out lostmio's "Why I STILL don't trust Kate" (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11500) thread.