Kate and Sawyer

[morbius47]

Let's assume Kate and Sawyer knew each other before the crash. (Sawyer said, "I made this birthday wish four years ago.") If this is correct, they are up to something. Could Sawyers note have been from Kate, telling him how to play things for now? We know there were both pens and types of paper found after the crash. When Kate came back from the hunt, Sawyer needles her a little. Kate says "Not now.". To me it seemed a little like she was saying keep a low profile, more than just telling him to leave her alone. If Kate is as dangerous as the marshall said, and if Sawyer is the way his character has been portrayed so far, they would definitely be sly enough to play things close to the vest until they know more about the others.
If all I have postulated so far is correct, it would seem they are employing a divide and conquer strategy. Kate is getting a feel (figuratively, not literally, yet) of all the Alpha males. She has only established significant relationships with Jack, Sayid, and Locke. She has developed lesser ties to Michael and Charlie. She has done this in only six days. Sawyer is the observer, he's always watching the others. Without looking up from his "reading" he knows it is Shannon in front of him. He is working a different group than Kate (Shannon, Boone, Jin and Sun)
I'm not saying they like each other, Kate didn't like Sawyer having the gun. Sawyer didn't mind her keeping it. But, it was Sawyer she gave it to. He used it to try to kill the marshall. Coincidence? Could Sawyer have been on the plane to get Kate?
Just some thoughts. Anyone think I'm onto something?

[seraphism]

it all fits and truth be told if i was the writers i would definately be making someone in the group who appears good to be bad and these (i don't consider sawyers current actions to be bad so far) are the main picks. I do think Kate and Sawyer may have a past, that four years comment was a little too odd and now that you mention it Sawyers letter may well have been from kate. Notice also how Sawyer was the one who pegged the "Criminal" tag on sayiid first chance he got, if sawyer does know kate then he also knows she was the criminal and would probably want to establish someone else in the group as the prime suspect. Remember at the time of the accusation neither of them knew whether or not the Marshall would wake up.
ps:- And as stated in my kate - teh evil thread I do think it's very possible she is working Jack and Sayiid.
pps:- Also perhaps they do like each other, but are simply playing the "don't like each other" game to throw the others off. Kate did manage to take the gun of Sawyer pretty easily and the scene where he grabs her could very well simply have been for the benefit of those who where there at the time. (perhaps she might have even suggested that he accost her in some way in the letter she wrote).
pps:- In retrospect the last part is unlikely due to the nature of the conversation about putting the marshall out of his misery.

[morbius47]

I forgot about Sawyer labeling Sayid as the criminal, good point. It seemed like racism at the time, but I'm not so sure now.

[DriftWood]

It seems to me to be more likely that Sun and Walt have some sort of connection. I kind of came to this conclusion when Walt decided to leave his son with her when he went out into the jungle even though she supposedly doesn't speak English. He must have known that she does (or at least understands it) and that could have been based upon some past relationship, which would also explain why her husband dislikes Walt so much.

[seraphism]

could also be that michael (and when u say walt i assume you mean michael as michael is the father:) ) has the hots for sun after seeing her bathing. :eek

[morbius47]

I think you're right, seraphism, Michael probably feels a little closer to Sun after the jungle sceen. Plus, she's not the type to go running out into the jungle on any new adventure that comes up. Who else that we've seen Michael interact with would he choose to leave Walt with?

[DriftWood]

Right Seraphism, my mistake.

[cinderellabop]

This is an interesting concept, and it does make a lot of sense. But I really don't think Kate is going to turn out to be evil. There are too many signs of goodness in her. Sure, the way she has acted since she got on the island could be an act, but there are other signs, even before that. There is the way she pulled the farmer out of the car after they crashed (knowing that every extra second she took to do that brought her closer to being captured), the way she gave the marshall oxygen on the plane, the fact that she wanted to ask him to make sure the farmer got his reward money for the mortgage. These were all signs of goodness that didn't involve the island or any kind of con.

And when you add other things, like her horrified remark to Jack when he wanted to burn the bodies in the fuselage, "They're people!" It just seems very unlikely that she could be evil. She's been set up to be so good and moral that it leads us to believe that, whatever it was she did, she had a really good reason and she regrets it. It just seems like if they wanted us to question whether she was truly good, they would have left us more clues that she was not all she seemed, instead of having so many clues that reinforce her as someone good.

On the other hand, I think we are being led to believe that Sawyer is the "bad" one, and I somehow doubt that's true. We're definitely going to see some more depth from this character. His "tough guy, rebel" act is just that... and it's not going to last.

I still don't quite get yet what he meant by the "four years ago" comment, but I agree it's got to mean something... but I really don't think Kate knew him before the crash.

[drabauer]

Four years ago could be a chance encounter, a "con," that both of them kept quiet because they didn't want anyone to know about their past. I think that might be the most interesting angle--they know each other, but not very well.

[Zambini Stardust]

Sorry for this duplication, but I started another thread before I was pointed to this one. Anyway, here are my original thoughts before I saw this thread...

*********
Remember when Kate tackled Sawyer in the jungle to try to get water from him? His comment was something like "I've been dreaming of this moment for four years." Seemed like kind of an odd comment for two people who didn't know each other before the crash. On another thread, this has been discussed and the consensus is that the "four years" was either a red herring or simply Sawyer's warped sense of humor.
But (and here goes the conspiracy theorist in me)...

What if Sawyer does know Kate? She may or may not know him. We haven't seen any indication that she does know him, so let's assume that is the case. Then how does he know her? As I mentioned elsewhere, what if he is a bounty hunter who was tracking Kate when the Fed nabbed her? Then he hops on the same plane to keep his eye on his quarry just in case she ditches the Fed. If not a bounty hunter, maybe he was somehow involved in her crime, with or without her knowledge. Perhaps he was part of the crime ring and was sent to keep an eye on her, or protect her, or whatever. That helps explain why he was the one who knew where to look for the gun, and why he was the one who finally shot the sheriff, so to speak. He wanted to eliminate the Fed so he could collect his bounty or protect his partner or whatever.

Now, what if Kate does know him? Either of the scenarios mentioned above could apply (bounty hunter or partner in crime). She doesn't let on to anyone else that she knows him for fear it will uncover her dirty little secret. The weakness in this theory is that when they were alone on the triangulation hike she didn't say anything to him acknowledging their history. That is why I favor the "he knows her but she doesn't know him" hypothesis.
**********

Now, another original thought...if Kate and Sawyer have a positive history - knew each other and got along - why did Kate run off to rescue Jack as soon as Sawyer mentioned the cave-in? And why did he decide not to tell her about the cave-in immediately when he showed up on the triangulation hike and she jumped down his throat? Instead he withheld the info and made her hike that much further away before he told her. That seems to be unnecessarily antagonistic even if they were play-acting to hide their previous relationship from Sayid.

I believe either they knew each other and she truly detests him, or he knows her but she doesn't know him.

[gscaleta]

morbius this was discussed but I could not find the original posts. We had talked about kate and sawyer being like a bonnie and clyde or something like that. Or another thought was kate did something to sawyers brother or someone he knew and thus was following kate. Nice catch.

[morbius47]

Hey, I forgot this thread was out there...

I still think there's something there, although Kate and Sawyer's interaction in The Moth may indicate otherwise. The one moment in that episode that made me think there is still hope for this theory was when Kate said, "You're not seriously compairing yourself to Jack?" (Or, something like that)
Sawyer's face really seemed to show pain. What she said really hurt him. Sawyer doesn't appear to be the type that lets people matter to him that much that quickly. For him to show that much pain over her comment, it either touched a nerve, or they knew each other before the crash. Guess tomorrow's show will tell us more.

[gscaleta]

I agree overall. I think something is there between them and the fact that she has this thing for jack and he is obviously upset confirms it. nice thinking

[LostinTrinity]

It was an odd comment and I can see it going either way with what has happened. I was thinking of when Kate said Sawyer probably didn't have anyone waiting for him, that it sounded as if she didn't know much about him. But then that other comment someone mentioned about comparing himself to Jack kind of implies more.

I originally thought maybe Sawyer had been in jail for 4 years. Maybe he'd seen Kate's mug shot or something. Wasn't that dated 4 years back?

[morbius47]

Good points, maybe Kate and Sawyer come from the same part of the world. Kate might be infamous, or notorious, around there. Sawyer, living on the darker edge of society, might have heard of Kate and been impressed by her supposed evil deeds. And, four years ago, made that birthday wish.

[gscaleta]

yes but the bounty was like 23k so she can't be that infamous right? I think it's something silly like mail fraud or maybe she was running an asian bride thing. Possible tie in w/ the korean couple??

[drabauer]

MINOR SPOILER


The Paul Dini interview at Dark Horizons said we will find out Kate was involved in more than one nasty affair, suggesting the notorious theory (but see what you make of his comments:

Dini interview (http://www.darkhorizons.com/news04/041109d.php))

[Hooster]

I guess I may be the only one, but I didn't think the 'birthday wish 4 years ago' meant that Sawyer and Kate knew each other before the crash.

I just took it to mean he wanted some hottie, not Kate specifically, to be forceful with him (she tackled him, after all) and straddle him suggestively... Just my take on it.

[gscaleta]

No I thought of that too. He just wished 4 years ago for a woman to jump him but then everyone is theorizing about a common thread amongst them and we moved on to maybe somehow they knew each other. But sometimes there is nothing hidden and we make more out of it.

[Rene]

What if he's been on the island for about 4 years?

[thisYearsGirl527]

I always assumed that Sawyer's four years comment was referring to a dry spell perhaps. Like from being in jail for four years or in a situation where he was not allowed to see women or have contact with them. Maybe we'll find out tonight.