View Full Version : "Hit man" indignant about a thief?
Mithril379
10-29-04, 03:51 PM
I originally thought Jin was involved with organized crime through Sun's father. If this is true, why would Jin be so morally indignant about explaining things to a "thief", as he calls Michael? He seems completely disgusted with the idea of a thief, which strikes me as odd if he is beating on people or engaging in other "enforcer" behavior.
In that blood scene, perhaps something else happened. Maybe a factory worker got mangled in a machine and he ditched the body.
cinderellabop
10-29-04, 04:01 PM
To be honest, I really do think Jin killed someone at Sun's father's orders. However, I think that may have been the first time (not sure it was the last, though). If you look at his reactions... he was tense, nervous, angry, and was scrubbing the blood off his hands almost fanatically (like Lady MacBeth). I think he was ashamed and he didn't want Sun to see what he had become. It seems to me that Jin was a good man, deep down, who got badly corrupted by the work he did for his father. It changed him. Someone who's been through something like that would have a skewed view of the world, and would be indignant about a theft if he felt the person was stealing his honor. Asian cultures in particular, are very fanatical about the issue of honor. Perhaps the island will eventually enable him to let go of the skewed values he developed and become the man he was when Sun fell in love with him again.
Baron X
10-29-04, 04:10 PM
If he did not want Sun to see what he had done, he could have cleaned up some where else or locked the bathroom door. He wanted her to see what he was forced to do for her, he resents her for it and wanted her to suffer like he was.
I did think he was a little over the top trying to kill Michael. If you are in a plane crash and your watch is missing would you automatically assume some one stole it from you?
SecretSquirrel911
10-29-04, 04:13 PM
Maybe Jin went into shock and just found his way home.
seraphism
10-29-04, 05:06 PM
aye it could have been an "honor" killing or beating, mafia all over the world has it's own form of moral code. It might be ok to do one thing like "hurt/kill" someone who has betrayed a person of respect because the person in question has taken away from their authority so by the same token having a watch giving to you by the person you respect and being told to look after it would require you to do so. And as the person you respect is worth more than a normal person (which is why you do what they tell you) it could be acceptable to hurt someone who is stopping you from fulfulling your duty.
I don't agree with what i just wrote but it's an understandable (sorta) reaction from someone in jin's (seeming) position.
Although on the surface it would seem Jin may be some kind of enforcer for Sun's father, at this time we simply don't know that. In fact we really have no idea what exactly Sun's father does. It's very likely we're being led to believe this on purpose but I think it's a red herring.
Perhaps the answer is as simple as Jin witnessed a car accident and rendered aid. Maybe he was shocked by what he saw, couldn't help effectively and felt disillusioned.
Although it's certainly fun to speculate I feel as though people who jump to conclusions without knowing the facts are setting themselves up for disappointment when, and if, the truth is finally revealed. I think it's better to keep an open mind and not adamantly defend a theory based on assumptions.
Baron X
10-30-04, 08:25 AM
Not a good Samaritan. Jin told Sun when she asked what happened, what did you do? I do whatever your father tells me to do. I did not get the feeling he had done something nice like midwife a birth or help with an accident.
I was just watching this again and I noticed something. Could be small but right after he's attacked Michael and is sitting there in handcuffs, Walt is on the beach and giving him dirty looks. Go back, if you can, and look at Jin's facial expressions when he looks at Walt. Walt is giving him this "I hate you. You're a jerk" look and Jin in return is just looking at him, nothing mean in his expression at all. Almost looking at him fondly. Maybe the fact that he's a child is the reason. Am I the only one that sees this? Probably not significant to the show but just caught me off guard considering his actions of 2 minutes ago.......and to the kid's father.
hmm
Baron X
10-30-04, 09:05 AM
Cristina, calm down, it is okay. Yes I noticed it to. Jin was once a much nicer man, the attack on Michael is more likely a result of Sun's fathers influence on him then a true test of his core being. I imagine he was ashamed when Walt was staring at him, I would think no matter what some one had done to you to provoke your violent outburst on them, if you had to face their kids or their parents you would probably not be as sure of your justification.
Calm down? You obviously haven't seen me worked up! hehe
:rollin
Baron X
10-30-04, 03:05 PM
duely noted. Cristina has a temper. There it is in the Book of Everything.
JacksGirlfriend
10-30-04, 04:32 PM
I need a copy of that book, Baron. Did Pinnerman write it?
JacksGirl
Baron X
10-30-04, 04:37 PM
Of course.
As someone who's worked in a county jail before, there is certainly a pecking order and a moral compass for most inmates, warped though it may be. Real thieves, the ones who worked at it and made it their "craft", thought little of burglars who broke in to steal a Tv set or stereo to support their drug habit, robbers who didn't use a weapon thought those who did, were animals, cocaine addicts thought anyone using meth, was plainly nuts, while everyone in the place hated child molesters and rapists...
JacksGirlfriend
10-30-04, 08:46 PM
Baron: There isn't anything about me in the Book of Everything is there? If so, find the white out. We can work out payment arrangements.
JacksGirl
Of course there is. It's called the book of everything not the book of everything but JacksGirl!
:lol
JacksGirlfriend
10-30-04, 10:14 PM
But I thought I ripped out those pages.... Yikes!!
JacksGirl
ccmerlot
10-31-04, 07:52 PM
Hiya: I really got the impression that Jin was involved in something mucky because of working for his possibly criminal father in law (who is obviously and dubiously very rich). As for being disgusted by thievery, i go along with the pecking order mentioned earlier: he saw walt's dad as a petty and therefore dishonourable thief.
I kinda thought Jin and Sun were at the airport escaping their life in Korea, and heading for a new start in america ("A year of management training, and a year working in your father's factory, then we will have all the money we need" he said to Jin reassuringly). She still had planned to leave him ("my husband has a temper" she said to Michael while asking for his help), but then rethought it when he showed her a flower ("I remember when all you could give me was a flower" she said to her husband in their swank apartment which was obviously gotten by Jin's work with her dad.)
c ya
azteclady
10-31-04, 08:10 PM
What if Jin's 'time' with Sun's father is almost up at the time we see Jin entering the apartment all bloody? Could it be Sun's father doesn't want to give Jin the opportunity to leave his service (whether in a factory or in organized crime), and sought a way of putting Jin in a compromised situation?
Mithril said:
"In that blood scene, perhaps something else happened. Maybe a factory worker got mangled in a machine and he ditched the body."
That could fit the bill.
As far as Jin's out of proportion reaction to Michael's perceived theft, there's also their present situation to consider. Regardless of Jin's moral values, and possible prejudices/racial biass (of which we really know next to nothing), there's also the fact that he is stranded in an island after a plane crash and unable to appropriately provide for his wife.
This is the same man who agreed to 'give up' two years of his life for the privilege of marrying her and providing for her in the manner she's accustomed to - aside from her father's consent to their marriage, they would have 'all the money we need.'
Seeing her father's watch on someone else's wrist may have been the straw that broke the camel's back, and nothing more.
Beto
ccmerlot
10-31-04, 08:24 PM
true.
i also remember Sun explaining to Michael that the "theft" of the watch disturbed Jin because caring for her father's expensive watch was "an honour", and when M's response was something to the effect of "father's watch, big deal..." she said "You don't know my father!".
Father is evidently very powerful, either in a good or bad way.
Jin's "loosing" the watch could have repurcussions, nasty ones, should they be rescued.
(or maybe it was some kind of dowry. do they do dowries in korea?)
so many questions, so little time...
c ya
I'm inclined to agree with azteclady on this one.
Mithril379
10-31-04, 08:47 PM
Interesting responses! I can see everyone's point about a "pecking order" explaining Jin's disgust for a thief. I'm just surprised at Jin's intensity. He'd rather be slowly roasted shackled to an airplane chunk than make ANY attempt to communicate.
Regarding the watch....we believe it's Sun's father's watch because that's what Sun told Michael, correct? If anyone else watches this episode again, please check out the Sun in Korea flashbacks. I believe it's the scene where she is waiting to see how's Jin's conversation with her Dad went, but the watch SUN is wearing looks like the watch that caused the fight. If anyone has a chance, let me know what you think.
If it were actually Sun's watch, I think I may understand Jin's reaction a little better. He may feel an honor issue is involved if it's her Dad's watch, but if it actually belongs to Sun he'd have an honor/love combination issue. I think I'd understand his volatile reaction better if he were in "protect the wife" mode rather than "Father in law's honor" mode.
No they are distinctly different watches. Both very expensive but one is clearly a man's watch and the one she wore was clearly a woman's.
The watch Michael had:
lost-media.com/modules/co...-sun30.jpg (http://lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-promos/sea1/1x06-house/rising-sun30.jpg)
The watch she was wearing:
lost-media.com/modules/co...use170.jpg (http://lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season1/1x06-house/house170.jpg)
Mithril379
10-31-04, 09:53 PM
Definitely NOT the same watch - thanks for posting the shots!
xxandraxx
10-31-04, 10:21 PM
Whos to say that Jin was a "hitman". Perhaps the blood on his hands was from murdering Jin's father? We have yet to see his story.
ccmerlot
10-31-04, 10:24 PM
already discussed: when Sun is planned to leave, her accomplice mentions that her Father and her husband will look for her. Dad's alive and well, it seems....
Mithril379
10-31-04, 11:08 PM
Whos to say that Jin was a "hitman". Perhaps the blood on his hands was from murdering Jin's father? We have yet to see his story.
We don't know he's a hit man. As I said in the original post it's possible he isn't, and the blood scene could have another explanation, like a worker was killed in an accident and he helped cover up the incident.
Well I had the watch figured out from the start of the show (just ask those in chat, I was mucho proud of my keen ability to figure it out before it happened). hehe
So that's why I knew that wasn't the same as what she was wearing.
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