Question about the "monster" in the jungle. [Archive]

OneHurleyNation

10-07-05, 09:04 PM

How many other people were expecting Desomond to get nailed by "the monster" when he was running through the jungle? I know I was expecting it.

You know, I really wished they would have an episode solely on all the characters asking the right dang questions, like Kate, Locke, and Jack discussing what the heck happened with that "column of black smoke" and what exactly Locke was looking at when he was lying on his back looking up at something.

Sense the whole incident, it has only been brought up once between Kate and Locke, and that went nowhere. That is starting to bug me a bit.

JessicaLost

10-07-05, 11:00 PM

I think that no one is controlling it. We know it has never attacked in certain areas, like the beach or the caves. That chain sound from season one makes me think that it is chained to something in that hole and it only allows it to go so far. Remember the theory that it was a huge lemor like animal that could rip trees out of the ground? Perhaps a zoology experiment like the polar bears?

hopelesslydevoted

10-12-05, 06:58 PM

What I've never understood about the monster is why no one has tried to track it. They seem to be able to track everything else. Wouldn't this answer a lot of questions we have about what the monster is?

(Please redirect me if this has been discussed somewhere else!)

The Swan

10-14-05, 08:08 AM

Would you want to track something that ripped a pilot from ihis seat way back in episode one, season one??? People are naturally scared of this thing so i dont find it that dumba thing to not go after it.

Daan

10-14-05, 08:32 AM

If the button was a monster, then why would Desmond run through the jungle?

He knew the button would still be pushed, so if it was a monster, Desmond would die and he does not like that thought, brotha.

The Swan

10-14-05, 08:37 AM

IMO i dont think the button in the hatch has anything to do with the monster (security system). I think that is controlled from elsewhere, as is the shark and the polar bear(s).

a2jward

10-14-05, 09:37 AM

I think Desomond got blinders on from being resposilble for the button. I doubt he knows anything about the monster, others or anything going on. I have a feeling that guy is going to be in bad shape when the Lostaways run into him next.

The Swan

10-14-05, 09:50 AM

Me too.....
I mean he was genuinley surprised to see Locke when he went in the hatch and he wasnt aware of the plane crash.
Im not convinced he is aware of the Others or the security systems. Hes been living in his own "punch the number, press the button" bubble for far too long waiting for his replacement

juanbong

10-14-05, 01:02 PM

and if Desmond didn't hear the plane crash, my guess is he doesn't hear the "monster" roaming around the island and the "security system". I do think though that the "others" may have found at least one of the hatches on the island if they have been there for quite some time though, you think? any thoughts?

$ .02 worth

The Swan

10-14-05, 01:14 PM

Well the hatch Locke and Boone found was still buried in the undergrowth so i dont think the Others knew about that one. If they have been there a while though you would hope that they had explored a little more than our bunch!!!

LostViking

10-30-05, 10:30 PM

I am looking for a good place to post this, and this seems to be the best choice.

I was thinking of what we do and do not know about the monster/security system:
1. Danielle told us it is a "security system"
2. We first encountered it, as viewers when Jack, Kate and Charlie went to the nose section.
3. The pilot appeared to be pulled out of the cockpit by the monster. It also cast a shadow on the dirty cockpit windows.
4. It make a wide variety of sounds, many of which are mechanical in nature.
5. It might be two different entities - one that blows up trees at ground level and one that operates up in the trees. I think this is what Jack and Kate saw before the tree exploder showed up on the Black Rock trip.
6. It is possible Locke had a previous encounter with it due to his reaction on the dynamite expedition to the Black Rock - Why walk toward it unless you had previous knowledge it was not dangerous.
7. The system either did not notice the dynamite expedition, on their way to the Black Rock, or determined they were not a threat. Because it approached them but then moved on. I would like to know what it did respond to.
8. Danielle knew to keep silent and hidden as a defence against it.
9. Locke employed the same technique with Hurley, does this prove Locke's previous experience?
10 Once the castaways had dynamite the security system went after them. Did the system know they posed a threat? Does it sniff for explosives?
11. When it dragged Locke there really did seem to be the sound of a chain clanking. I picture a track - like a tank tread, being driven by metal gears.
12. When Kate throws the dynamite down the hole we see the smoke rise out of other nearby sites from the jungle floor. I think these are adjacent tubes to the one Locke was being dragged down.

Sorry these are out of order

13. The security system/monster came close to the crash site during the pilot - but stopped at the edge of the beach. Was it looking for something then determined it wasn't there?
14. The security system is deadly - because it killed the pilot with what looked like puncture wounds. But the thing that dragged Locke left no wounds. This assumes the pilot was really killed. This seems to support the 2 monster theory. But they do seem to work in conjunction.

Just some random thoughts I had, I will try to post more soon.

LoStMyMiNd

10-30-05, 11:15 PM

Didn't Locke see the monster at some point? I just remember the writers telling him to act like has has just seen something really beautiful. Didn't Locke see the monster before Jack, Kate and Charlie did? When Rose said that it sounded famaliar?

I also saw a red light in the jungle just before the thing attacked Locke in the episode when they were coming back form the BR. The red light made me think of infrared. Like maybe the monster comes alive when someone passes before the infrared light. That made me think further that the monster is mechanical because of the sound it made when it was pulling Locke into the hole. It sounded like a wench to me.

So maybe someone IS operating the security system, and maybe it IS someone like Desmond only located in one of the other compounds. Kinda of makes me think of the Wizard of Oz scenario, when Dorothy finally comes into Oz City and sees the man behind the curtain operating the controls. :)

ETC: spelling

Ioncewaslostbutnowamfound

10-30-05, 11:31 PM

where'd you see the red light?

Screencap?

LostViking

10-30-05, 11:58 PM

Didn't Locke see the monster at some point?

I think he did. He certainly reacted to it as someone who had seen it before and determined it was not harmful. You are right, he had a look on his face like it was a beautiful thing. I believe Locke thinks the monster is what is sending him the visions.

I did not know there was a red light. If there is it could be an infrared or laser scan. From the sounds the security system makes, it seems much older than one that would use an infrared scan.

AceOfDiamonds

10-31-05, 12:10 AM

What's key here is that between "Walkabout" and "Exodus", Locke has had not one but two distinct experiences with "the monster." The first time, Locke thought it was beautiful. But the second time -- in Exodus -- Locke was afraid.

This would seem to indicate that there's either A: two distinctly different monsters, one which is "beautiful" to Locke and another which is frightening, or B: the very nature of the monster itself changes, so that the first time Locke interacts with it it's harmless, but the second time it has malicious intent.

LoStMyMiNd

10-31-05, 01:43 AM

Aceof Diamonds I'm not sure the second time Locke was afraid because after Kate blew up the thing Jack was furious and wanted to know what Locke was thinking. Remember Locke wanted Jack to let him go and Jack thought Locke would have been injured or killed and Locke said he highly doubted that.

The infrared light has been discussed in previous threads and a screen cap was shown. Leuthan may know where it is because I distinctly remember that Leuthan saw a red flower in a sea or jungle of green and it really stood out to him too. A search of that thread may be in order and I believe it was in the Exodus episode, the one where Locke was dragged by it.

ETA: I think the discussion was centering around the fact that the writers may be using the use of color to highlight significant things, like in the Sixth Sense

xkmaillost

10-31-05, 02:20 AM

I think Danielle is in on the gag along with Desmond.
Think of it like this:
Danielle finds Hurley, Sayed and other people jsut walking around the jungle near her place.
So when the Dharma boat comes to resupply the hatch she does not take food or supplies from them?
She does not kill them and torture them,a sk questions?
So am I to believe that Danielle is ont he island for 16 years and does not see Desmond crash ont he rocks, or Kalvin leave the hatch and go down to the rocks and bring another into the hatch?
Its all some sort of gag on the survivors.
kevin

LoStMyMiNd

10-31-05, 02:25 AM

Danielle is much to paranoid to know nothing.

LostViking

10-31-05, 03:39 AM

I'm not sure the second time Locke was afraid because after Kate blew up the thing Jack was furious and wanted to know what Locke was thinking. Remember Locke wanted Jack to let him go and Jack thought Locke would have been injured or killed and Locke said he highly doubted that.

I think when Locke made the comment that he looked "into the eye of the island" he was referring to an encounter with the monster.

Danielle obviously knows about the monster. She stated it was not a monster but a security system. She also knew how to evade it. If I lived on this island for 16 years, I would have either learned how to cope with the security system or I would have died by it. Since Danielle is alive, I think that proves her knowledge.

LostMyFace

10-31-05, 01:30 PM

Yesterday, I had a thought about the security system/monster. Since we don't see the others on the midsection survivors "side" of the island and we don't see the SS/monster too close to where they live (beach and caves), do you think it is in place to keep the others from that side of the island? It could be there for other reasons and it may not even be a Security System, but I just think it has something to do with keeping the others away from the "safe" side of the island.

I don't know...just a thought.

juanbong

10-31-05, 03:47 PM

are you saying that the security system is keeping both sides of the tailenders apart or the keeping the survivors (both sets) away from a "safe" side? and if you mean a safe side, what is this? another part of the island that has not been seen as of yet? this is an interesting take on the system though.

xkmaillost

10-31-05, 08:27 PM

That is something I am sure will get explained in future episodes.
Locke sees the monster, and does not explain to the others what it is?
HUh?
Desmond has no actual proof he crashed onto the island, he has no proof of kalvin( Remember Kalvin is an extreme cold temperature measurement much like farheinheit or celcius),a nd Danielle has shown no proof of her crashing on the island. Plus she burned everything she owned, but she probably has a backup area to hide in.
SO Kalvin is on the island pushing numbers and sees Danielle and does not ask her for help?
I think Daniell and Desmond are just a part of Dharma Managmement and are there to guide the survivors to some unknown outcome. Social experiments are like that, you never know where you are gonna end up.

juanbong

10-31-05, 08:30 PM

quote-
-----------------------------------------------------------
SO Kalvin is on the island pushing numbers and sees Danielle and does not ask her for help?
-----------------------------------------------------------
when did this happen or when was this spoken?
i see what you are saying about no actual proof of actually landing on the island, except the survivors of 815.

LoStMyMiNd

10-31-05, 09:06 PM

I think he means hypothetically

zilch

10-31-05, 11:05 PM

Going further with the idea of 2 monster or a dualistic monster, what's interesting about the attacks is that it (they?) plucks the victim either directly up or drags him into the ground. Sort of heaven and hellish, if you ask me. I discount Shannon's encounter as Boone is hallucinating (and even then, she is plucked upwards).

SithSlayer

10-31-05, 11:18 PM

I don't think it's necessarily 'reasonable' to assume that Desmond ever left the hatch after Kelvin's "death".

108 minutes isn't a heckuva lotta time to stray too far from the hatch, even if he did venture out.

It is far more likely that if Danielle spied him, she chose to stay clear.

Or perhaps they truly never ran into each other.

Neither of them are really in their 'right' mind after all. Danielle's been stranded on the island, experiencing death & loss for 16 years, fighting for her very survival. Desmond has been sequestered inside a hatch for +/- 3 years, injecting himself with lord only knows what kind of 'vaccine' and told that if he doesn't perform his task in Skinner's box that the world will end.

LostMyFace

10-31-05, 11:51 PM

juanbong says:
are you saying that the security system is keeping both sides of the tailenders apart or the keeping the survivors (both sets) away from a "safe" side? and if you mean a safe side, what is this? another part of the island that has not been seen as of yet? this is an interesting take on the system though.

Well, my original thoughts were that the security system (if that is what it is) is to keep THE "others" (the scary, muddy-legged teddy bear toting others) from the safe side of the island....where our original cast - midsection survivors - are living (on the beach and the caves). We don't see the security system/monster near those areas so maybe one of it's purposes is to keep THE "others" away from our midsection survivors and possibly from another Safe section of the island that we do not know about - as you suggested or thought I suggested. That would be interesting if there are scientists (or whoever) out there watching all the happenings going on while protected from being found by the survivors (victims?), THE muddy-legged Others, TSS, Danielle, Desmond and any others.

I don't know...just a thought I had...it would help explain why our midsection people are somewhat protected, unless they wander off too much.

Hodgepodge

10-31-05, 11:52 PM

I think if we look at the circumstances surrounding the "thing in the jungles" appearances. We might be able to draw some conclusions.

This first appearance is in Pilot. When Jack, Kate, and Charlie decide to go after the planes transceiver. They first hear the sound Rose says she recognizes, then they see the trees being pushed/pulled aside.

The transceiver team heads out and finds the cockpit. They also find the Pilot still alive. The "thing in the jungle" appears, and pulls the Pilot right out of the window.

The next sighting is when Sayid asks Kate to place an antennae high in a tree when she's out with Locke and Michael hunting boar.

She climbs the tree and notices the "thing in the jungle" heading for Locke. Then Locke comes face-to-face and is unhurt. He also denies he saw anything!

I can't remember the next sighting! Can someone give me a hand?

juanbong

11-01-05, 01:05 PM

One thing I think is curious is when Arzt is running away from the monster in Exodus pt. 1 and we don't know if he actually "saw" it, he just starts running back to Jack, Locke, Kate, and Hurley. We hear it, and Locke tells Hurley to stay put, the monster is leaving. Did Arzt encounter the thing or surprize it? I don't know. I also thought that when Locke mentions that he "has seen the eye of the island and it is beautiful". I had thought this was in reference to the monster. any thoughts?

NokomisIsABadRobot

11-01-05, 01:36 PM

The first time they see the muuunster, I believe is S1 Ep1 when they are all on the beach. The thing that struck me funny was..(I'll have to go rewatch now to make sure of when I saw it)
As they all gathered to the same area (on the beach)to look for the source of the strange noises and tree snapping. It looked to me like they would first look one way(ex: to the left), then as another tree exploded they snapped their heads in the other direction (to the right). Then snapped them back to the left again at the next noise. It seemed to me that the noise (muuuunster) was coming from two different directions.

anyone else see this?

ETA: I just rewatched and yes this happens in this episode. A distinct snapping of the head from left to right to left again as the munster stomps his feet.

juanbong

11-01-05, 01:58 PM

good pickup, Nokomis. I thought I had seen this too, but put it off as nothing. I am going to go back to view this again for my own further inspection. thanks.

Hodgepodge

11-02-05, 01:18 AM

Is the next sighting in Exodus? As Juanbong states, the dynamite team enters "Dark Territory". Arzt*whistling nothing in particular* decides he's heading back to the encampment.

These appearances say to me, Danielle is right. The "thing in the jungle" is a security system. A proximity alarm if you will.

Chokingdogs

11-02-05, 12:24 PM

yes, from S1E1, its near the beach, and the sound is coming from two different directions indicitating two distinct "beings". that or a VERY fast moving, left to right, entity.

so far the monster has been "seen" all over. down by the beach, and other places inside the jungle that we cannot be sure of the location and/or direction.

lockes been exposed twice, once nicely, the other not so...

as for the desmond being at the helm theory.....

why, after two to three weeks of locke and boone futzing around with the hatch ( the hatch that has an elaborate set of mirrors to look out for security and/or information ), did he not send it after the two of them? methinks he has nothing to do with it's habits. at least not knowingly.

the tail section survivors seem to have no concerns, outwardly, about this thing. their main focus is on the "others". that, in and of itself, leads one to believe they have NOT come in contact with it. so, if it's there to keep the two sides apart, why does it only seem to affect the beach party, and not the tail survivors?

LostMyFace

11-02-05, 12:48 PM

^^^ so, if it's there to keep the two sides apart, why does it only seem to affect the beach party, and not the tail survivors? ^^^
Because they haven't gotten close enough yet?!? They are who knows how far away.

to answer your question with a question....
Then why haven't "the Muddy Others" been on the midsection survivors side of the island?
------------------------

Another thought...
Since we don't see it on the beach or in the caves is it because 1- it is a security system and not needed to protect those areas and/or 2- does it (do they- if there are 2) need trees to move around?

HawaiiHeaven

11-02-05, 05:15 PM

The manifestation of the "monster" has always been loud noises, chain sounds, and trees moving and falling. In one episode we saw black smoke coming out of a hole. The "monster"/security system must involve trees, which explains why the "monster"/security system does not extend to the caves and the beach.

What is very annoying is why no castaway has ever examined or come across any of these downed trees and stumps to see if they have wires or metal. Is this a writing gaffe, that they never come across any of those "exploded" trees??

Also, have you noticed that since Desmond, there have been no incidents with the castaways of the "monster"/security system- the noises, trees and chain sounds?! Also the hatch seems to have gotten "closer" to the beach!

I am still very disturbed at what I percieve as a severe writing flaw concerning Desmond and Jack. Our castaways are supposed to act somewhat believably in the face of all the craziness, and it was NOT, NOT, NOT believable that dozens of questions were not asked of Desmond, and that Jack fell to tears at the mention of his "wife" and just let Desmond go, and the writers off the hook from answering questions. The writers are doing the same with Ana Lucia- making her so tough that we are supposed to believe that her toughness prevents anyone from asking her any questions. The writers will have to stop this. They have gotten themselves off the hook with Ethan (died), Desmond (Jack asks nothing and lets him run off after a sentimental moment- he did not similarly cry when he told the wedding ring story!!), and Ana Lucia (too tough to ask). I may start a new thread about this because it disturbs me too much.

Hodgepodge

11-02-05, 06:03 PM

HawaiiHeaven says:...Also, have you noticed that since Desmond, there have been no incidents with the castaways of the "monster"/security system- the noises, trees and chain sounds?! Also the hatch seems to have gotten "closer" to the beach!...Well HawaiiHeaven, if my chronology is right, Exodus was the last sighting. And previous to that, Walkabout. That's close to twenty episodes that the "thing in the jungle" wasn't heard or seen from. We're talking about what, 30+ days? If not more!

HawaiiHeaven also says:...I am still very disturbed at what I percieve as a severe writing flaw concerning Desmond and Jack. Our castaways are supposed to act somewhat believably in the face of all the craziness, and it was NOT, NOT, NOT believable that dozens of questions were not asked of Desmond, and that Jack fell to tears at the mention of his "wife" and just let Desmond go, and the writers off the hook from answering questions. The writers are doing the same with Ana Lucia- making her so tough that we are supposed to believe that her toughness prevents anyone from asking her any questions. The writers will have to stop this. They have gotten themselves off the hook with Ethan (died), Desmond (Jack asks nothing and lets him run off after a sentimental moment- he did not similarly cry when he told the wedding ring story!!), and Ana Lucia (too tough to ask). I may start a new thread about this because it disturbs me too much.Believe me I know how you feel! But I've come to the realization it ain't going to happen. TPTB need to draw this series out. If people acted the way you and would, you have to admit, S1 would've probably been 5 episodes. It also would've been boring to watch.

Now I'm assuming we're going to get another look at Desmond. Another glimpse at our Irish/Scottish lad. So maybe then we'll get some more answers. But don't count on it!

As far as Ana-Lucia. I'm looking forward to that first meeting with Jack and the others. What's he going to ask? What's she going to answer? We'll probably be frustrated again after that!

NokomisIsABadRobot

11-02-05, 06:58 PM

What is very annoying is why no castaway has ever examined or come across any of these downed trees and stumps to see if they have wires or metal. Is this a writing gaffe, that they never come across any of those "exploded" trees??
This group certainly wouldn't think to look for stuff like that. They've found a cable trailing into the ocean, a slave ship full of dynamite and other stuff they could use, a 16 year veterin of the island whom they ignore, polar bears they could eat, a hatch they keep hidden from 8/10's of the castaways, a hatchmonkey that they let run away without so much as a hey, can you at least write the numbers down for us... what on earth would make you think they would bother to investgate the trees? :rolleyes
I feel ya....the writers are sure missing alot of details.

TPTB need to draw this series out. If people acted the way you and would, you have to admit, S1 would've probably been 5 episodes. It also would've been boring to watch.
I disagree, they could certainly continue with clues and mystery for years while they allow the charactors to act rationally. They don't have to provide all the answers.. but I'd be happier if they at least asked the damn questions. :rolleyes

juanbong

11-02-05, 07:06 PM

And I am going to bring up a point made from season 1, but the red flowers that are seen right before the security system goes off. This indicator could also be used with the "monster", putting Hodges notion of Danielle and her "security system" one in the same.

Chokingdogs

11-02-05, 07:27 PM

then what triggered it at the end of the first episode?

nobody, that we know of, was in the jungle at the time of junior's first appearance. its been a season + now and we havent heard from X-survivor going, "hey guys, i was in the woods taking a leak, and the tree that i was wizzing on just blew up!!"

the plane had been down for some time, daylight to night, then it shows up after nightfall, but only on the perimeter of the beach.

it also seems to not like the cave, or the path from the cave. maybe sawyer found, and used, some 1 million % deet off and sprayed it everywhere. lol

DreaminLost

11-02-05, 08:02 PM

^^Right after the plane crashed in S1 E1, swarms of black stuff were seen swooping around the airplane. Maybe investigating the situation?

Then the monster/trees thing happens: maybe the black swarmies (nanobots??) reported back to the security system and the 'monster' put on a display for the Lostaways as a warning not to enter the jungle.

LostmyFace asked earlier why the Teddy Bear Walkers haven't been seen by our Lostaways--well, probably because the island is huge. They probably stay around their own living area and don't venture as far as our Lostaways.

Juanbong--what red flowers are you talking about?
~Dreamin'

Chokingdogs

11-02-05, 08:10 PM

^^

i recall reading about the "swarms" last season, and them being discounted as nothing more than cgi artifacts. especially the one that appeared to swoop down on the engine just as it exploded.

watching the dvd, theyre not artifacts.

Hodgepodge

11-02-05, 10:31 PM

Chokingdogs asks:then what triggered it at the end of the first episode?

nobody, that we know of, was in the jungle at the time of junior's first appearance. its been a season + now and we havent heard from X-survivor going, "hey guys, i was in the woods taking a leak, and the tree that i was wizzing on just blew up!!"...Chokingdogs, we know now there were survivors from the tailsection (Tailies). Maybe Ana-Lucia and her crew started heading inland around that time. JMO!