The Black Rock [Archive] - MyMedia-Forum.com

LostIslandJedi

05-19-05, 02:45 AM

Thoughtform....have you seen the movie "Sahara" that recently came out? Same scenario (Confederate warship inland in Africa) with plausible answer.

Anyways --- a ship like that could have ended up there in numerous ways....setting aside the sci fi element for a moment.....since the ship APPEARS to be old...there could have once been a different landscape or a river that they sailed up but then became land locked...etc etc....or in the OLD days ---pirates used to hide ships (when on the run) that they cherished very much inland....and then would bring it back out when ready ----seasonal crap determined that. The Greeks did it. The Asians did it. And we know Europeans did it to cross short land masses even in the New World...

ETC. ETC. ETC.

so anyways...could be various reasons it ended up there....AND of course...there is always the sci fi element to the show...so we will see....

just thought I'd pass that on to chew on...
;)

thoughtform

05-19-05, 02:56 AM

Oh well, It just gives us a million new scenarios to sort through with no way to confirm anything until we are given more. MORE MORE MORE !!!!!

Ancientwanker

05-19-05, 03:00 AM

I thought the placement of the ship was very much like the jet. Theres no way either could set down like that without greater damage. I think it just supports the idea that the island drags things in via tractor beam or some pseudobabble method.

LostIslandJedi

05-19-05, 03:03 AM

thoughtform -------

Oh well, It just gives us a million new scenarios to sort through with no way to confirm anything until we are given more. MORE MORE MORE !!!!!

Amen brother....amen...MORE MORE MORE!! :p

lurch

05-19-05, 03:15 AM

Glad I could reintroduce one of your earlier wishes. I don't know how accurate this is, or if the writers even knew about this town, but it is fun to speculate. Maybe (and hopefully, I am not crossing into theories and speculation and getting my own thread {my first} locked out) the island draws those who are heavily involved with violence (like many of the current characters and....PIRATES) and maybe the "Others" are descendants of those pirates. Or not. I have no idea anymore.
P.S. Love your avatar.

doigman

05-19-05, 03:42 AM

I've been a lurker here for some time, but after reading this thread I thought of some movies that may relate to tonights episode. Although I have to admit I have not seen either one but I am aware of their plots.
Bad Day at Black Rock
Spencer Tracy's character steps off the train at the backwater hamlet of Black Rock, when he inadvertently opens a Pandora's box of fear and suspicion.
www.filmsite.org/badd.html (http://www.filmsite.org/badd.html)

Fitzcarraldo
This movie could explain how the "Black Rock" ended up there. The main character of Fitzcarraldo is an obsessed opera lover who wants to build an opera in the jungle. To accomplish this he first has to make a fortune in the rubber business, and his cunning plan involves hauling an enormous river boat across a small mountain with aid from the local indians.

Brian

05-19-05, 03:45 AM

Just something interesting I found about Black Rock as it relates to shipping and thereby, this episode.

"Black Rock, chosen by Thomas Wheeler for his homelot in 1649, was largely settled for a century by his children and grandchildren. His great-grandson, Captain Ichabod Wheeler, was a leader in the shipbuilding industry thereand in developing the wharves that were to make the village the principal port of old Fairfield during Colonial and Revolutionary days. Here lived many famous sea-captains of those salty times, returning from the seven seas with tales of piracy (red flag), shipwreck (red flag #2), and sea-serpents (red flag #3): and here stood the tiny fort that held the British men-of-war at bay in 1779 and so saved Black Rock from sharing the fiery fate of Fairfield."

Hmm....so how is that relevant? Read it again. Black Rock, as reported here, was a sea port settled by a leader in the ship building industry. We now know what "Black Rock" is right? Also, it mentions tales of piracy, shipwreck, and sea-serpents. Did anyone else notice the "blip" on the radar during the preview? Yeah, I don't trust previews either, but it's still there. There's too many things here that cooralate. Shipwrecks, piracy, sea-serpents........Maybe it's just me.

There's more to this article, I only picked the part I found relevant. For those interested, the URL is : www.cityqueue.com/towngov...outeJ.HTML (http://www.cityqueue.com/towngovernment/RouteJ.HTML)

pinnerman

05-19-05, 03:47 AM

Ancient - they were following a river on the way to the ship, it could have got that far inland if water levels were higher.

The ship had dynamite, which supposedly was invented around 1867 according to some of the people in chat.

Also, there was a word underneath where it said "Black Rock". To me when I stopped it in HD, it looked like "Portsmouth" which was a shipping yard in England according to JG and those in chat. If someone gets a screen capture of that shot and confirms the word, that would good.

thoughtform

05-19-05, 03:58 AM

Well if it did say Portsmouth my guess would be it's a British prisoner transport to Australia. Funny how we seem to see the people who are "brought" to this island as the criminal type. I know not all of the people we have seen are criminals, but there certainly is a preponderance of those on the wrong side of the law.

DohBoy

05-19-05, 07:02 AM

I just wanted to say that adding PIRATES to the mix just makes this show even better. Pirates! Come on, it's awesome!

Now, if we can only get some ninjas with lightsabers on the island, I think a majority of my childhood adventure fantasies will be contained on that island.

DohBoy, there's no theory nor speculation per se in this post.
D'oh! I posted prior to actually watching the episode. The disadvantage of living in Burbank, CA is being in Pacific Standard Time, and watching it three hours later than east-coasters. (The advantage of living in Burbank being that I live next-door to ABC studios).

LoStMyMiNd

05-19-05, 07:20 AM

Yup pirates are better than aliens any day. I used to live in Burbank about 25 years ago or so.

azteclady

05-19-05, 07:36 AM

People - here's the link I promised you all earlier. It's a very old thread by none other than our esteemed JacksGirlfriend. The thread has been revived and it now not only available for perusal but open for current contributions!

All are invited to visit
When Realities Collide... (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sage?topicID=1917.topic)

Enjoy!

TheBigCat

05-19-05, 10:02 AM

Before anyone gets too caught up in pirates (Love you JG) I would like to point out that the ship could not have been there for more than about 20 years or so. Any longer and the jungle would have reclaimed it. Trust me on this. I live in an area that gets that much rain. Even if the lumber were "treated" there would be enough growth of flora to totally break apart the hull. I remember reading about a Royal Army graves-registration unit in Burma after WWII. 5 years after the war ended and some of the bodies had bamboo the size of the one Sawyer was cutting for a mast growing through them. Morbid yes, but it illustrates a piont on how fast the jungle can claim the works of man for it's own.

Ancientwanker

05-19-05, 12:34 PM

Id say its a exploration, trading or passenger vessel. Prisoner transports probably wouldn't go to Australia via the Americas. Pirates I associate more with the Caribbean.

A screencap study of the ship should give an idea of what time period we are talking about. Something tells me they were very meticulous in the details on this one.

For some reason I assumed that the dynamite wasnt from the Black Rock itself but that Danielle or her team had stashed some there.

As far as the jungle reclaiming the wreck its probably a case of tv license but it could be that the others maintain the ship. It could also be that it only happened recently and the island brings in folks from different time periods.

azteclady

05-19-05, 12:42 PM

AncientWanker, TheBigCat has pointed out that even a couple of decades are enough time for a tropical jungle to utterly devour such a wreckage.

Danielle's transmission has been looping for some sixteen and a half years now [it was 16yrs 5mos when they crashed - 40+ days ago] which means that the ship could not be as well preserved as it looked - unless there's serious effort to preserve it.

swisher

05-19-05, 12:51 PM

could it be possible that the name of the ship is not actually black rock? remember danielle isn't all there. could it be possible that there is some type of name on the back of the ship and only the letters that make up "black rock" are visible and danielle just put them together to make "black rock"?

anyone have a screen cap of the back of the ship? i am almost positive that something was on the back of the ship but i couldn't quite make it out.

thoughtform

05-19-05, 12:54 PM

What makes you think that the black rock wasn't a British prisoner transport? We don't know what route the ship was traveling. The Nigerian plane probably wasn't using a route that included the south Pacific! Strange crafts that shouldn't be there according to where they would have been going, and yet they are all on craphole island. It's pretty clear that most of what we see on the island shouldn't be there.

Wynter Zera

05-19-05, 12:57 PM

I agree with the prisoner idea. I thought of it after I logged off last night and I think you're right. I bet there are two groups of others fighting and the newbs get caught in the middle.

Ancientwanker

05-19-05, 12:57 PM

Yeah, I said unless they are maintaining it or time travel is involved.

I once saw a paddleboat being reclaimed by the jungle in the central african republic. It had probably been there a few decades and still had its shape but I bet it was largely metal.

As far as the ship being a prisoner transport, yeah, if this island scoops up craft from anywhere then it could be absolutely anything.. Though if the craft had to sail there itself then its probably not taking the right route for prisoner transport. They should have gone via suez or cape town.

nastyned

05-19-05, 01:02 PM

"I would like to point out that the ship could not have been there for more than about 20 years or so. Any longer and the jungle would have reclaimed it."

Agreed, so its presence clearly required some form of time travel.

PrincessSarah

05-19-05, 01:15 PM

i just posted this in response to someone's query over what the word under "black rock" was. i concur that it is probably portsmouth.

"i believe it says "portsmouth" which, interestingly enough, is where most prisoner ships leaving for australia departed from in the 1800s.

see a slightly enhanced image here, where i have tried to show how similar the text looks to the word "portsmouth".

www.kotrs.com/portsmouth.jpg (http://www.kotrs.com/portsmouth.jpg)

the last prisoner ships were sent in 1868, i believe. dynamite was created in 1866. so i do think that dynamite could have been transported on this ship - though im not sure why they would be carrying dynamite

the ship certainly looks like the kind used to transport prisoners... i know it is not a perfect match, but it is close enough to conceive that our ship is of similar kind. see this painting of the hms calcutta and compare:

www.kotrs.com/calcutta.jpg (http://www.kotrs.com/calcutta.jpg)

the calcutta was of course a navy ship (one of only 9 used to transport prisoners throughout the period) however there were some 500 privately owned ships which were also used. presumeably, the black rock would be one of these.

i am not sure what significance it would have if the black rock was indeed a prison ship - however i think its far more interesting than it just being a ship. especially given that a few of our lost characters are convicts, and jin made it quite clear that his presence on the island is a punishment for what he has done."

to those who wonder whether it is plausible that such a ship end up at this position (where we assume the island to be), i myself am a strong supporter of the bermuda triangle theory. i think that a lot of things are showing up on this island that really should not be anywhere near it, and this could well just be another.

to those who are searching for the significance of the name "black rock", i don't think that they would want to imply that this ship is a specific ship from real life. simply because the results you've found aren't far back enough to avoid getting sued or something. it also might end up boxing the writers in somewhat.

(edit - fixed link urls)

sawyerhasbestlines

05-19-05, 01:20 PM

Can anyone explain how a ship that size ends up that far inland? What, did it fallout of the sky? Massive tidal wave? Something grab it and drop it there?

It's one of the "security systems" toys. Big fella gets gets bored and likes to re-arrange things.

------

PS!!!! YOU ALL, must read what Boonian found regarding "James Ford" in Choppin Broccoli's post in theories. Good pirate story there!

Name of thread, in T&S, Boonian's post:
EzCode Parsing Error:=] Re: Random Thoughts From Tonight's Episode (Long[

Gambit980

05-19-05, 01:26 PM

Wasn't the tower supposed to be around the black rock. And I think the Ship was not taken in by the jungle, may have something to do with the Dark Territory0] .

east928

05-19-05, 01:37 PM

__________________________________________________ __

As Ancientwanker said: It could also be that it only happened recently and the island brings in folks from different time periods.

__________________________________________________ __

This is the theory I'm going with! I have a feeling this ties into all the threads about the secret government experiments, that have probably gone all haywire.

swisher

05-19-05, 01:39 PM

never mind. i just saw the screen cap and it is black rock across the back.

Ancientwanker

05-19-05, 01:41 PM

For the sake of argument...

Portsmouth being historically a major port, it could be any type of ship based there. Ive sailed out of Portsmouth but I wasnt carrying prisoners. People seem drawn to australian prisoner transport cuz of the location of the island and its proximity to Australia. However they then claim a bermuda triangle effect is required to get the ship to the island. So which is it?

I think people are drawn more to the dramatic possibilities of a prisoner ship but I dont see any evidence that would suggest that type of ship over any other.

Iphigenia W

05-19-05, 01:43 PM

*I would like to point out that the ship could not have been there for more than about 20 years or so. Any longer and the jungle would have reclaimed it. *

On a normal island yes, but this is no normal island. Natural law doesn't seem to apply in a normal way here.

thoughtform

05-19-05, 01:54 PM

I don't think that it has to be a prisoner transport ship, leaving from Portsmouth. It is just a possibilty. It could be many things. I only mentioned prisoners because we have a lot of sketchy people crashing onto this island. Drug runners, fugitives, murderers, etc. So other criminals seemed to fit in with our island theme.

sawyerhasbestlines

05-19-05, 02:01 PM

Also the plastic skeleton was handcuffed.

Rene

05-19-05, 02:10 PM

Just want to give props to whoever long long ago thought that the Black Rock could be a ship. I think they had said at the time that maybe the Black Rock was Danielles research ship... not quite but good thinking outside the box! Great great episode!

thoughtform

05-19-05, 02:11 PM

Right SHBL, I was hesitant to mention that because some find preview info spoilerish. That was the main reason for my prisoner transport thinking.

tanyon

05-19-05, 02:30 PM

I've been searching for Black Rock stuff on Google. I know the is probably total cheese, but I found a poem...yes I know a poem. But if you read it in the context of the show, there are some cool things in it. Probably out of context, since I read it fast. Below is the link, I will just randomly quote it to entice you. If this was posted before, my apologies.

Title: "The Black Rock"
Written by: John Gould Fletcher (1886–1950)

Some of the lines:

"Bleak, adrift,
Shattered like a monstrous ship of stone,
Left aground
By the waters, on its voyage; 40
With no foot to touch its deck,
With no hand to lift its sails,
There it stands."

"Freed from clamor of the waves,
From the broken planks and wreckage
Drifting aimless here and there,
With the tides; 80
Freed to share its life with earth,
And to be a dwelling-place
For the outcast tribes of men,
Once again."

Here is the full link: Black Rock Poem (http://www.bartleby.com/273/1.html)

Again, its too early to be reading full poems, but what can I say, Google time. I'm sure this pays not relation to the show, but its funny how Lost can make you search for answers. That's why I love this show.

contradiktion

05-19-05, 02:32 PM

Just because it says Portsmouth on the back doesn't necessarily mean that it sailed from Portsmouth. Could've just been built there and based there. Anyone see Survivor when they won the reward challenge and went on the boat? Pearl of Palau or something like that (forget the exact name), but it was based out of Belize City, Belize. Just part of the shipping industry -- ships are made to get around. ;)

Warthawg1

05-19-05, 02:35 PM

As far as the ship being that far inland...

Couldn't it mean that when the ship ran aground, that area of the island was the edge of what was visible above water?

What if the island is slowly emerging from the depths? Now, several years later more of the island has emerged from the sea so it's growing in size. Think about Noah's ark, and how it's now on the side of a mountain in Turkey. In that case it would be because the water subsided, and in this case it's because the more of the island is emerging from under the sea... but the principle is the same.

Elysiannn

05-19-05, 02:44 PM

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can anyone explain how a ship that size ends up that far inland? What, did it fallout of the sky? Massive tidal wave? Something grab it and drop it there?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's one of the "security systems" toys. Big fella gets gets bored and likes to re-arrange things.

Sawyerhasbestlines - I LOVE THIS IDEA and got an instant mindpic of a huge comical bird of prey moving "his toys" around. Ely

thoughtform

05-19-05, 02:44 PM

Wow! I like the part of the poem "The dwelling place of the outcast tribes of men."

trooper7

05-19-05, 02:52 PM

sidvix

05-19-05, 02:55 PM

Can anyone explain how a ship that size ends up that far inland? What, did it fallout of the sky? Massive tidal wave? Something grab it and drop it there?

I am wondering if it isn't a little like the book and movie Sphere. In the story they find a spaceship covered in coral at the bottom of the ocean, and by measuring the coral growth, they discover it has been there a long long time. They discover it didn't crash there but arived there from the future.

So could have the Black Rock had the same thing happen, it didn't sail and beach there but arived there from another time.

Warthawg1

05-19-05, 03:09 PM

So could have the Black Rock had the same thing happen, it didn't sail and beach there but arived there from another time.

In HG Wells The Time Machine, the machine itself went through time, but occupied the same physical space. At times as it was travelling it was out in the open fields, and at other times it was inside buildings, etc, etc. So is it possible when (or if) it went through a time portal it was in open water, but when it emerged in a different time, there was land where the water previously was?

This may be just restating what Sid said above, but just adding in the example from the HG Wells novel

Mattie

05-19-05, 03:49 PM

Just wanted to add my 2¢ here and say I do not think it's pirates. The ship had a name on the back, how do we know it's not Danielle's ship? She said it crashed she never said what happened to to it.

How does a ship that size get into the jungle like that anyway?

Warthawg1

05-19-05, 03:52 PM

That ship wa smuch older than any ship that could have been Danielle's research vessel. Especially if you consider the other more modern equipment Danielle recovered from it and had at her base camp.

Plus, many here have put forth reasons as to why it would be that far inland.

Mattie

05-19-05, 03:54 PM

Ok - but I'm still not buying the pirate idea. I do not think "the others" are simply pirates trying to protect a treasure or something on the island itself.

Elysiannn

05-19-05, 03:58 PM

Checking out the screen capture of the ship - it may just be the limited perspective we're given but the ship doesn't look that large for a galley that would bring prisoners or slaves. If you look at the Mast posts they're quite shortened.

I'm enjoying all the research you've all done on it and I love the speculations of how she got so far inland.

Just the chance that pirates were shipwrecked there and their survivors are still there having grown up in the pirate times mindframe is exciting. Ely

HotBlack Deisato

05-19-05, 04:04 PM

Tsunami? Didn't we just have one of those?

Just sayin!

HotBlack Deisato

05-19-05, 04:08 PM

But they DID go to Aus via the Americas....

p073.ezboard.com/flostthe...1920.topic (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sage?topicID=1920.topic)

Mattie

05-19-05, 04:24 PM

http://img260.echo.cx/img260/8093/image32sl.jpg

JacksGirlfriend

05-19-05, 04:28 PM

I would like to point out that the ship could not have been there for more than about 20 years or so.

Don't make me start talking about time loops again, Cat. It's not pretty.

Mattie

05-19-05, 04:30 PM

Any of the castaways from Portsmouth?

thoughtform

05-19-05, 04:40 PM

Maybe we'll get some British history lessons from Charlie.

devenish

05-19-05, 04:41 PM

danielle was so annoying last night, I mean if i were jack I would ask her what the hell is the black rock or the others, why the hell do ppl have to talk in riddles why couldnt she just say the black rock is a boat,or tell them who the others were or something, she is one crazy lady

trooper7

05-19-05, 04:51 PM

This may be a stretch, but "Black Rock" seems like a very unlikely name for a ship. There seem to be several ports with this name, but I'm considering that it might be a red herring and that the actual name of the ship is "Black Rook."

Black Rook in Rainy Weather (by Sylvia Plath)

On the stiff twig up there
Hunches a wet black rook
Arranging and rearranging its feathers in the rain.
I do not expect a miracle
Or an accident

To set the sight on fire
In my eye, not seek
Any more in the desultory weather some design,
But let spotted leaves fall as they fall,
Without ceremony, or portent.

Although, I admit, I desire,
Occasionally, some backtalk
From the mute sky, I can't honestly complain:
A certain minor light may still
Leap incandescent

Out of the kitchen table or chair
As if a celestial burning took
Possession of the most obtuse objects now and then ---
Thus hallowing an interval
Otherwise inconsequent

By bestowing largesse, honor,
One might say love. At any rate, I now walk
Wary (for it could happen
Even in this dull, ruinous landscape); sceptical,
Yet politic; ignorant

Of whatever angel may choose to flare
Suddenly at my elbow. I only know that a rook
Ordering its black feathers can so shine
As to seize my senses, haul
My eyelids up, and grant

A brief respite from fear
Of total neutrality. With luck,
Trekking stubborn through this season
Of fatigue, I shall
Patch together a content

Of sorts. Miracles occur,
If you care to call those spasmodic
Tricks of radiance miracles. The wait's begun again,
The long wait for the angel.
For that rare, random descent.

I'd rather sail in a ship named after a bird than in a ship named after a rock.

Mattie

05-19-05, 04:54 PM

Aren't ships supposed to have female names?

trooper7

05-19-05, 05:04 PM

I just cannot see a ship named Black Rock. It doesn't make sense. It's written in as an oddity on purpose.

TheBigCat

05-19-05, 05:04 PM

I would say that definately says Portsmouth. But lets not assume that it's Portsmouth, England. It could easily be Portsmouth, NH. Thanks for the cap, Deuce.

Also, could we not get locked into thinking that just because it is a sailing ship it's an OLD ship. They still make sailing ships for a number of reasons: Naval Acadamy training vessels, film props, some rich wierdo wants one.

If you've seen Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl, the ship that Jack and Will steal was in reality the Lady Columbia, homeport Aberdeen, WA. She has also appeared in Star Trek: Generations. She was built to commemerate the 200th anniversary if the discovery in 1791 of the mouth of the Columbia River.

How did it get inland? How did the get the raft into the ocean? Did anybody stop to think about that before suggesting extraordinary means?

Mattie

05-19-05, 05:16 PM

It's weird for a ship to have the name Black Rock. Here at our harbor it's considered bad luck to have a ship named anything other than a female name.

tanyon

05-19-05, 05:17 PM

beltzclan6

05-19-05, 05:17 PM

HD freeze on my TiVo looks like Portsmouth.

Having said that I have to say that there is no way anyone saw that one comming. But now I am having a believability issue with it. Do you know how fast a thriving rain forest / jungle inviroment would "eat" an old wooden ship from the 1700's or so??? There would not be but a few of the larger frame pieces left!!! I mean this thing was completely intact - for the most part - with rope rigging still attached from the sides to the mast, for the love of Pete! I mean I can wrap my head around getting it up inland from the beach. Pirates use to "carry" there boats and hide them inland almost the same way they got the raft off the beach. There was even a story in my history class about moving one over a small mountain once. But rigging??? The only way this is believable to me to me is if the thing is not really a couple a hundred years old. Like a replica or something.

And I just can't believe that the writers - who have proven how good they are - are going the cheesy scifi channel time warp way. Do not except that. ABC wouldn't let them do it because of fear of losing half their audience when it became unbelievable. Remember - they said it would all be explainable using science or psuedo-science.

Don't get me wrong - it was an awesome episode. I loved it. It shocked me and caught me off gaurd. But the writers don't want us to figure it out. They want us guessing. And time warp aint something that they stood around and said would be a good way to explain it all. "I'm telling you, man. No way they would guess a time warp if we threw in a pirate ship!" "Wow, JJ, you got a point. Time warp is the way to go. Or how about time warp AND aliens???"

They got something else up their sleeves and we aren't even close to guessing it right.

traderumors

05-19-05, 05:35 PM

tanuki314159

05-19-05, 05:46 PM

Maybe the Black Rock was transported to the rainforest by a "black roc". (The same one that brought down flt 815)

monsters.monstrous.com/roc.htm (http://monsters.monstrous.com/roc.htm)

TheBigCat

05-19-05, 05:50 PM

No, that's definately an S. And tanyon, on the stern of a ship her name is written above her home port ALWAYS.

HotBlack Deisato

05-19-05, 05:50 PM

I gotta say, the fifth letter sure looks like an "h" to me. Even if I want to believe it is an "s", I just don't see it. Does anyone else share this thought? If that is correct, I'm wondering how many other letters are different than "portsmouth".

Well, when you sharpen the image, and then brighten it, it's clearer. Still not obvious, but it's not "H," and definitely looks like an "S" to me.

Of course, you're welcome to Google for cites/ports named "Porthmouth," If you like. Good Luck.

TheBigCat

05-19-05, 06:01 PM

You rock, HotBlack!

I would like to point out that this is the General Discussion area "Black Rock" thread. If you are going to post wild theories and speculations about the ship, then please do it in the Theories and Speculation area "Black Rock" thread. Those of us who really want to know what's going on don't want to have to read through 20 posts on how they used a tesseract to move the ship.

Sledgeweb

05-19-05, 06:19 PM

It's weird for a ship to have the name Black Rock. Here at our harbor it's considered bad luck to have a ship named anything other than a female name.

It's not terribly unusual to have a ship not to have a female name.

Examples:

The Mohawk
The Narragansett
The Supply
The William (a slaveship)
The Constitution
The Crusader
The Bogota (a slaveship)
HMS Bounty
HMS Victory
HMS Warrior

Here's an image of the Victory: www.guru-international.co...ictory.jpg (http://www.guru-international.com/gray_monk/Photos/2003-12-03--HMS_Victory.jpg)

Anywho, as you can see, ship names are commonly varied, although they are usually referenced as being femenine, they don't necessarily have to have a female name.

gravelpup

05-19-05, 06:27 PM

It sure looks like "Rock" to me.

But who on God's green earth would name a ship after something that sinks?

TheBigCat

05-19-05, 06:31 PM

Great site, Sledge. I'm putting in in my favorites list.

"Who... would name a ship after somethong that sinks?" Maybe they named it after pumice.

LostinTrinity

05-19-05, 06:41 PM

I've seen black pumice.

Also, I've seen an old sailing ship like that down in Mexico, they use it to cart the touristas around.

trooper7

05-19-05, 06:49 PM

Of course, you're welcome to Google for cites/ports named "Porthmouth," If you like. Good Luck.

The (other) thing that bothers me is that Black Rock seems to be the name of so many ports that it's uncanny.

Dearmad

05-19-05, 06:52 PM

There is no time travel involved.

The answer is pretty obvious (and full of drama) if you throw out always using the most impossible solution to the mysteries and aim at more plausible solutions.

Not time travel. Not people who lived a long time. In fact, that people don't live unusally long lives... is part of the answer to the mystery.

Edit: Forgot to add. Pirates? Nope... not really. But at least that guess is plausible. Although piracy, of a sort, has a little to do with it. But only briefly.

Ancientwanker

05-19-05, 08:01 PM

Funny to see people thinking an old sailing ship is implausible.. Have you been watching Lost? Its one implausible event after another. If you honestly expect a perfectly ordinary everyday explanation for all these events...um...

Yeah, they were filiming a movie on the island with a ship set. I hear that in the finale they find the film crew and Francis Ford Coppola, have a feast and get rescued. Woo hoo. The End.

bigweasleyfan

05-19-05, 08:17 PM

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/bigweasleyfan/ShaunAvatar.jpg

I Did NOT see this one Coming

sidvix

05-19-05, 08:21 PM

A long while back, some poster posted a pic in spoilers of what he said was the raft being shipped. He said the thing was way more than a raft, and was really shocked seeing.

But before I got there a mod deleted, saying that the producers asked him to, and after alittle protest on the thread delete the thread and any subsquent thread about that picture.

I am starting to think know that Black Rock was the ship the poster had photographed being shipped on a truck. Yeah the raft looks ok but isnt that shocking, nor worth deleteing a thread over.

So if any of the mods remeber the pic, I curious if it was Black Rock ship or the raft.

TheBigCat

05-19-05, 09:37 PM

Apparently a chat regular whom I will not name knows someone who builds things for the show and has therefore known for some time about the ship but has been forbidden to mention it.

MarchingMuffin77

05-19-05, 09:41 PM

Perhaps the black rock is Noah's Ark. It would explain the polar bear. The dead bodies found in the caves could be Noah and his wife or his son. It dosen't however explain the chained bodies we saw in the preview for next week's show. (I think these bodies are found on the boat not the hatch)

Alberto

05-19-05, 10:00 PM

'It's not terribly unusual to have a ship not to have a female name.'

Yeah, I haven't heard too many women named 'Titanic'

Mattie

05-19-05, 10:01 PM

It's not terribly unusual to have a ship not to have a female name.

It is here. We're one of the first whaling ports (New Bedford, Massachusetts) and all the boats here have female names. I just thought that was tradition everywhere I guess :lol

Hodgepodge

05-19-05, 10:03 PM

thoughtform asks:Can anyone explain how a ship that size ends up that far inland? What, did it fallout of the sky? Massive tidal wave? Something grab it and drop it there? I know that it appears to be a couple hundred years old, but could that make that much of a difference in how far inland it is? I have to say I never thought that it would be an old ship.I've only gotten to page 2 of this thread, so I'm not sure this has been answered. But I'd like to propose a scenario.

KF2 has put our numbers into MapQuest as longitude and latitude. They end up in Nigeria, Africa. Nigeria happens to be on the west coast of Africa. In that same thread, we also uncovered Bermuda Triangle type time portals between Nigeria and the South Pacific.

Suppose this ship was part of the slave trade during the 18th and 19th centuries. During one of its voyages to America, it was caught in a time portal and ended up on the island. But why does it look so new Hodgepodge? Well, I'm glad you asked! Since that time, its been used by all of the other people who have found themselves stranded on the island as shelter and such.

TheBigCat

05-19-05, 10:05 PM

Actually, Alberto, I do know a woman named Titanic, but GD is not the place to be talking about her.

Lostaboutlost

05-19-05, 10:31 PM

wow this is a lot of stuff to think about! i dont know what to think!

omg i know one thing though... i live right next to Portsmouth, VA! but im sure its the one in england.

sorry i dont have anything to add. |I

JacksGirlfriend

05-19-05, 10:59 PM

For what it's worth, here's my take.

The ship looks like an old sailing vessel - the kind used in the 16th-17th century as privateering vessels (and the kind we associate with pirates). Although most pirating in those days was done in the Atlantic, the Portuguese did have access to the orient and had opened trade negotiations with Japan and I think China as well around the late 1500's. It seems logical to me that England would have sent some of her more seasoned "pirates" out in search of some of these valuable cargos. Goods from the orient were exactly what Europe was looking for around this time.

It isn't odd to me to see a vessel like this was in the Pacific, nor is it odd that it could have been on a pirating venture. It clearly says Black Rock (and not all ships have female names) and I'm pretty sure it says "Portsmouth" which would be the one in England (according to me).

Now we can go with two scenarios. Either the ship has been there for centuries or it hasn't. Cat doesn't seem to think it would not last twenty years let alone centuries. So let's assume it hasn't been there centuries. Let's assume it arrived there around the same time as Danielle, although not necessarily from the same time as Danielle.

That would certainly explain why it could be reasonably intact. It would also explain why some of the crew apparently still exist. Ethan was what? Around 30? Well let's make him a cabin boy of 12 or so when he struck out from Portsmouth. Let's assume he's part of a crew that has been stranded on a remote island with no hope of escape for around twenty years. But let's also assume he left England around 1600. Of course now we have to think of time... and different dimensions... or triangles... or alternate realities...

Of course I have no trouble thinking of any of those things. How about the rest of you?

We know they have one female (Alex). I would say the other women are in pretty deep trouble about now. Twenty years is a long time to wait to increase your flock.

Just an idea.

SpidermanHouston

05-19-05, 11:09 PM

I am starting to think know that Black Rock was the ship the poster had photographed being shipped on a truck. Yeah the raft looks ok but isnt that shocking, nor worth deleteing a thread over.

I saw the pic before it was deleted. It was not the ship it was the completed raft.

LostInWilderness

05-20-05, 12:31 AM

It doesn't look like a pirate ship to me. It would too obvious for Lost to have pirates use a pirate ship. Black Rock is a ship the pirates commandeered and were sailing to their secret base the next island over. But then they went through one of those near-dimensional gates and ended up in the middle of the island and at a new time.

Anyone who doesn't think it's pirates is underestimating JG's, um, pull (yeah, that's the word) with the producers.

JacksGirlfriend

05-20-05, 12:36 AM

I think LIW is making fun of my theory... hmmmm... I'm going to have to talk to the producers about that.

Brian

05-20-05, 12:45 AM

swisher,

Interesting thought but from all of the screen-caps and pics I've seen, if there's anything there other than "Black Rock" and "Portsmouth" I'd be really surprised. I think you're alluding to the scene in the most recent Planet of the Apes where they discover that the apes were referring to the space ship by one name but once Mark Wahlberg's character gets there, he scratches away the dust and finds the whole name. I don't think that's going to happen with LOST and the Black Rock. There doesn't appear to be enough room to have anything other than "Black Rock". That said, I may very well be proven wrong next season. Time will tell and great theory.

Brian

05-20-05, 12:54 AM

KF2,

I'm with you. Sorry to upset those who believe so ardently, but the "pirate" concept just doesn't do anything for me. That said, I am/was a big X-Files etc. fan so the concept of "exactly what you think it can't be, it is" isn't lost on me but, to be quite honest, the "pirate" thing is a stretch. If I'm proven wrong I'll humbly ask for your forgiveness. Why do I think this? It's too simple. It's the easy way out. The sighting of Black Rock just feeds this belief, TPTB are just giving you what you want, that doesn't make it plausible. This could go on for days but think about it, are they really going to introduce pirates on LOST? If I'm wrong, and TPTB do do so, I'm going to recommend some time on a couch for the writers. Doesn't mean I'm not going to continue to watch, doesn't mean I'm not buying the DVD in September, I'll just be more cautious in my viewing. Hell, I'm buying the DVD series if I have to scratch and claw my way into the pile! I'm just wondering what it's going to take to stay awake for 25 straight hours (22 episodes, part 1 of the finale, and the second 2 hour part of the finale = 25 hours) That's a discussion left to another thread! :)

Brian

05-20-05, 01:02 AM

KF2,

Aren't ships supposed to have female names?

It is called the Black Rock? Where's the confusion? :)

(Here we go again!) :lol

Yeah, we associate women with diamonds, diamonds are made from compressed coal under tremendous pressure and heat, coal could be considered a black rock.....You're not buying it are you? I tried. :)

obsessedlostfan

05-20-05, 01:20 AM

This has gotten very weird.Who in their right mind would have guessed that the Black Rock was a ship?I loved last nights episode but have to admit that the Black Rock reveal left me slightly aggravated.It seems the writers took everything involving DANIELLE and turned it upside down,She told SAYID that her son ALEX was taken from her ,now it turns out he was a she!?Very strange,but the episode was phenomenal,and brilliant haven't felt this many emotions in a span of one hour watching a TV show ever.

SpidermanHouston

05-20-05, 01:25 AM

Brian

05-20-05, 01:26 AM

obsessedlostfan,

Hmm.... Just to bring a few things from other threads into your post. Danielle never specified to anyone that Alex was "he" or "she." She (Danielle) only stated that Alex was her child, she never specified a sex.

You're actually surprised that TPTB have once again turned everything upside down? That's the M.O. of LOST. Expect the unexpected (shot out to Patrick Swayze and "RoadHouse").

I agree with you 110% about the spectrum of emotion evoked during this episode. My favorite was the scene with Jack and Sawyer. I've wanted that exchange to happen for so long that I had almost thought it would never happen.

I know I'll be corrected if I'm wrong about Danielle. I was just relating what I remember along with what I've read here.

SpidermanHouston

05-20-05, 01:34 AM

In "Special", Charlie read Claire's diary and she wrote about the Black Rock. This is Charlie's line: "Just listen to this. I had that weird dream again, the one with the black rock I can't get away from. I try to leave it but it won't let me."

Do you think Claire was dreaming about the ship or an actual black rock?

nmiaisland

05-20-05, 02:00 AM

That would certainly explain why it could be reasonably intact. It would also explain why some of the crew apparently still exist. Ethan was what? Around 30? Well let's make him a cabin boy of 12 or so when he struck out from Portsmouth. Let's assume he's part of a crew that has been stranded on a remote island with no hope of escape for around twenty years. But let's also assume he left England around 1600.

If that were true, wouldn't Ethan speak like someone from the 16th or 17th century? Btw, I haven't read everything, but someone who knows ships (if they have a screen cap) should be able to date the ship to within a specif era and say what it was likely used for.

obsessedlostfan

05-20-05, 02:09 AM

Thanks for the clarification Leuthen,you are absolutely right,I checked up in the TRANSCRIPTS section for the SOLITARY (episode 9),page and it was SAYID who actually calls ALEX a he,she never said it!!!Scary thought,how freaky would it be when ALEX makes her big re-appearance with the OTHERS,read the solitary transcript,its full of juicy details such as the FRENCH Lady's',and Ethan's' first appearance as well as mention of the others and names of her dearly departed crew.:hat

Brian

05-20-05, 02:39 AM

SpidermanHouston,

Well, isn't that just an interesting question? What did she see? Once again Charlie has thrown a monkeywrench into the works! :) Do you want my honest opinion as to what that dream sequence/diary entry meant? I think these may have been comments referring to Claire's time while she was held at Black Rock. By whom? Danielle? Maybe Danielle was keeping her safe, protecting her? Who knows. The line, "I try to leave but it won't let me" doesn't necessarily refer to the Black Rock. Perhaps it's relating to the island, perhaps the mechanical (?) security system, perhaps something we haven't seen yet. One thing I've learned watching this show, you can't take anything at face value. There always seems to be an underlying motivation. Perhaps this is just another one!

Hodgepodge

05-20-05, 02:45 AM

Leuthen says:...Do you want my honest opinion as to what that dream sequence/diary entry meant? I think these may have been comments referring to Claire's time while she was held at Black Rock...But, if I'm not mistaken, SpidermanHouston is referring to a incident that took place before she returned from the kidnapping.

SpidermanHouston

05-20-05, 02:54 AM

But, if I'm not mistaken, SpidermanHouston is referring to a incident that took place before she returned from the kidnapping.

yes, Claire wrote about the black rock dream before she was kidnapped

Mattie

05-20-05, 03:25 AM

http://img260.echo.cx/img260/1462/image19je.gif

So the ship is from Portsmouth. Assuming it's from Portsmouth New Hampshire...

I'll give you one guess as to when Portsmouth was founded.

4815162342

The seacoast of New Hampshire and surrounding Portsmouth area is filled with attractions and activities for the entire family. Nearby Portsmouth, is a quaint, historic New England villiage, founded 1623, host to five-star dining, nightlife, and shopping, as well as a thriving art and music community. The Seacoast Repertory Theater, The Portsmouth Music Hall, and the summer Arts Festival in Prescott Park present nightly, live entertainment, both indoors and out.

Brian

05-20-05, 03:26 AM

SpidermanHouston,

OK, I give up! I can only be wrong so many times in one night and still admit to it. I really screwed up again. My dream sequence/diary sequence is off. I'll have to do my homework. Sorry for confusing anyone.

That said, as I cower in the corner, who's to say it wasn't a premonition? Forethought?

I'm grasping at straws here folks, any help? Could it have possibly been foreshadowing?

yung23

05-20-05, 03:34 AM

I was just about to do that same thing KF2.

don't you guys (whoevers here) now feel a deeper understanding of the show ?
sometimes when things happen, ie Ana saying seat 42F,
I just... expect it now, and it's all because of this board.

we are so privelaged to have such resources for investigating this show and its many little riddles...

sorry , just babbling... people at work just don't understand how deep this show is. they laugh at my addiction..

does anyone else feel this way ?

thoughtform

05-20-05, 03:40 AM

My husband watches the show and has from the beginning. He likes it a lot. He thinks I take it waaay to far. He said that I'm obsessed. I don't know how you can't be!

Mattie

05-20-05, 03:40 AM

There's clearly 2 viewing audiences yung.

There's the ones that are diehard, notice all the little details. And then there are those who are fans of the show but sometimes might confuse the names Sawyer and Ethan! Some people have no idea that the numbers are hidden throughout the episodes, some have no idea that each character's name is somehow significant, etc. But they still enjoy the show in their own way.

Me? I'm obsessed and proud of it. I love the on-screen easter egg hunts (as Damon Lindelof himself called it) for the numbers.

yung23

05-20-05, 03:53 AM

me too.

has anyone wondered just how this ship got to be so far inland ? we know of odd tidal activity already.. you think it comes this far in ?
or ever did ?
or was there no island until the black rock met up with something at sea ?
just rambling...
I wasn't thinking, i just typed it.

Mattie

05-20-05, 04:24 AM

More interesting facts:

A google searched revealed the name of a ship that was called the Blackrock WAGL-367. It was a US coast guard vessel.

Blackrock, WAGL-367
ex-The Boys

Builder: Morehead City, North Carolina

Length: 114'

Beam: 20'

Draft: 8'

Displacement: 230 tons

Cost: $56,079 (acquisition); $86,698 (conversion)

Commissioned: 17 June 1943

Decommissioned: 24 August 1954

Disposition: Sold

Machinery: 1 Atlas diesel; 300 BHP; single propeller

Performance & Endurance:

Max: 12.0 knots
Cruising: 10 knots, 3,240 mile range

Deck Gear:

Complement: 15

Armament: None

Electronics: None

The Blackrock was the former fishing vessel The Boys that had been originally launched in 1924. She was a 230 ton, wooden-hulled vessel acquired for use as a tender. She was first commissioned in the Coast Guard as the Blackrock on 17 June 1943. She was assigned to the CAIRBSEAFRON and was stationed at San Juan, Puerto Rico, where she tended aids to navigation. She was decommissioned on 31 March 1944 for a time and re-entered service on 23 February 1945. This time she was assigned to the 7th Naval District and was based out of Portsmouth, Virginia.

She was decommissioned for the final time on 24 August 1954 and was sold on 2 November 1955.

You can find 4 8 15 16 23 and 42 throughout the ship details.

4 - Length 114

8 - Draft: 8 feet

15 - Complement: 15

16 - Blackrock WAGL-367 3 + 6 + 7 = 16.

23 - 230 tons. Re-entered service February 23rd.

42 - ? I can't find one for 42.

kajun

05-20-05, 05:23 AM

How the Black Rock got inland theories [logical]

1] It's been there a long time... maybe it was originally on the beach and over time, the island slowly shifted and morphed (as land will do over time)

2] A storm surge will do crazy things to large objects. Remember the Tsunami? (it does seem well intact)

3] David Copperfield (hiding in trees) is creating the "illusion" of a large pirate ship deep in the jungle.
(go ahead... flame me!)

Doletrain

05-20-05, 05:38 AM

I'm having way too much fun searching on Google for a ship with probably no historical significance.

But....here's another way to look at it. Maybe the ship is called Portsmouth and was built here:

Black Rock Shipyard
(1812), Buffalo
Replaced by Presque Isle Shipyard. A Naval Depot remained here until 1815. Site located at end of Niagara Street. No remains.

Hey Tanyon,
Lost has hit home for me ....... I used to live on Niagara street ....... Sadly, it is true that there is no remain of the shipyard.

Seeing the ship suprised me ...... not because the Black Rock was a ship, but because the type of ship it was. Congrats to everyone who has dug up some info on this thread. It is alot of fun to "chew" on this info until the next episode!

Gadjoproject

05-20-05, 06:55 AM

Could the ship be named after an area destroyed by the British in the War of 1812?

exerpt:
Lewiston, Fort Schlosser, Black Rock, and Buffalo destroyed by the British, December 19-31
www.societyofthewarof1812...12timl.htm (http://www.societyofthewarof1812.org/1812timl.htm)

TheBigCat

05-20-05, 07:47 AM

I believe I implied earlier in the thread (kajun, please note) the ship got into the jungle in the same way the raft got into the ocean. I wish to thank the writers for providing a sure-fire means of identifying people who don't pay attention.

The Black Rock was rolled on logs from the ocean to where it now sits. Doing this would not be a complex task. I could be accomplished no more than 30 people with ropes and pulleys.
(I'm waiting for someone to ask where they would get ropes and pulleys.)

Another possibility is that it was built where it sits. Odd, yes, but still possible.

As for the vintage of the vessel, all that I can determine from the caps is that she is flat-decked, that is she has no fore and aft superstructure (forecastle or fo'c'sle and aftercastle). These were a defensive innovation. Attackers trying to sieze the ship would be forced to board at the low deck amidship and would be at the disadvantage of being between fortified elevated positions, what military strategists call "outflanked". These structures became obsolete when improvements in cannons led to a naval philosophy involving stand-off combat.

When combat ships ceased to have these structures so did merchant ships. It is much easier to see and move around on a flat-decked ship. This change occured in the early 18th century, and pure sailing vessels with this configration were used into the early 20th century, usually as fishing vessels. (Watch Captains Courageous sometime)

So we have a rough time period of 200 years when sailing ships of the same general type as Black Rock were in common use. I hope that answers your question, NM.

Rewbie Sawyer

05-20-05, 09:59 AM

How do you feel about a Black Rock/Noahs ark connection? I mean sure the boat isn´t billions year old obviously, but still it would explain some of the animals of the island that shouldn´t be there. Just a thought

trooper7

05-20-05, 10:42 AM

But let's also assume he (Ethan) left England around 1600.

He certainly wouldn't know what Ontario was.

beltzclan6

05-20-05, 12:13 PM

OK, if I hear another Pirate ship / Time Warp / Space Alien theory, I'm going to puke. These guys all have some serious talent writing, and ABC I think would be very skeptical about a scifi flick on their main network. I just can't wrap my head around any of those theoreticle explanations. I have posted before, and I am glad there are a few that agree with me, the the jungle would reduce this ship to a pile of compost in 200 years, let alone twenty. It can't be that old and it did not time warp there. If I am wrong, and this whole story ends up being a time warp thing... I will be so dissapointed. First - ABC would never have picked up the pilot. Battlestar Galactica the new version on the scifi channel is wonderfully written, but ABC would never touch that with a 10 foot pole. Second - The guys writing this thing would not do such a wonderfull job writing this thing and making it mysterious, only to conclude the story with a time warp, pirates, or aliens. That would be sooooo boring. Does anybody out there agree with me? We are ALLLLLL wrong. Either that or JG aint as good as I thought.

kajun

05-20-05, 01:58 PM

Beltz,
Very valid points you make... yes.
Like you,I don't want to see Lost become "cheesy" with too much sci-fi/fantasy elements. But there is something other than normal reality happening on the island.

-the compass being off by several degrees was a clue that things ain't right.
-Lockes legs being suddenly healed and his "connection" with the spirit of the island is another clue.
-polar bear... the numbers... etc.

BUT, walt had his prescient powers BEFORE he got to the island, not after.

There is certain elements of this show that are sci-fi/fantasy based but they are kept very subtle... just like Alias. Alias never gets too far off...it stays believable in the world that we live in, but adds a different flavor. Very much like Stephen King does... he keeps it real... he keeps you focused on the human element the majority of the time and teases you with the rest.

nastyned

05-20-05, 02:08 PM

I think some sort of time phasing or time travel is consistent with the story of this show. I honestly don't see how else they can explain this island not being "found." The old Philadelphia experiment thing again.

ratabor

05-20-05, 02:10 PM

I think it's the Black Pearl from "Pirates of the Carribean." It showed the back of the boat and it didn't say "Black Rock." They must be filming part 2 on the island, that's who "the others" are. They are coming to film and she is scared of them.

Suil Liath

05-20-05, 02:13 PM

Ratabor: I think you've found the answer!:rollin

kajun

05-20-05, 02:25 PM

Exactly, Ned. With todays technology... GPS, the black box etc.
They have to reveal, without a doubt, that they will never be found... that they are "somewhere else". How else will they keep the show on the air for several years?

stu of east texas

05-20-05, 03:10 PM

regarding how the ship got that far inland:

What if the island raises and lowers in the water. Remember someone mentioning strange tides? If the island raised and lowered, it would appear to those on the island, that the water was going up and down.

If the ship grounded when the island was lower in the water, and then the island raised, it would appear as though the ship was far inland.

Warthawg1

05-20-05, 03:19 PM

yes, that possibility has been mentioned

ratabor

05-20-05, 03:42 PM

About how the ship got that far inland.

What if we were all wrong about Noah and the Ark? It was really a giant pirate-looking ship that he used. Rained for 40 days and 40 nights, ended up there. That's why no one throughout history could find it, it's on this island. Same reason no one can find the LOST survivors.

Spriggan

05-20-05, 05:16 PM

The Black Rock (http://www.hawaiiweb.com/maui/html/sites/black_rock.html)

Ka'anapali Beach,
Highway 340
West Maui

Black Rock is the site where ancient Hawaiians believed that their spirits "jumped off" or left this world. Each island has such a spot. It was believed that a spirit left this world to join it ancestors. If there were no ancestors to greet the spirit, it would wander the earth causing mischief.

And as we all know, the show is filmed in Hawaii. This would be a pretty nutty coincidence, no?

geezerwoman

05-20-05, 06:51 PM

Thanks Spriggin
I just looked it up too, and thought what a coincidence. The Black Rock is in Mauii and divides the "Ka'anapali Beach in half. As you said, legend states that "the spirts of warriors left the earth to meet their ancesters by leaping from this rock." Since this is filmed in Hawaii - maybe the writers just got the name of the ship from this spot and it's history.

HortenseHysteria

05-20-05, 06:52 PM

It's weird for a ship to have the name Black Rock. Here at our harbor it's considered bad luck to have a ship named anything other than a female name.

Well, having grown up in a sailing family, and been on boats my entire life, I can safely say that it's not true all boats have female names. It's not even considered bad luck.

None of my families boats have ever had female names, and every year when I go to opening day of sailing I see all kinds of names from the Goofy, to the tequila.

Edited because that came across as way snarkier then meant too

tanuki314159

05-20-05, 06:58 PM

Given it takes from mid morning to sunset to go from the beach camp to the black rock and back (while dodging the monster/island security system), how far away do you think the black rock is from the beach camp?

Mattie

05-20-05, 07:08 PM

Well Hortense I guess it's a thing in *our* town. If you go down to the harbor here all the ships have female names. Don't know why I guess it's just a tradition for *us*. I've never been to any other harbors or ports so I thought it was a common thing for everyone not just here.

HortenseHysteria

05-20-05, 07:16 PM

Where do you live? I have been to many harbors all across the country, I've never seen one, where they only have female names.

(wow, saying I go from harbor to harbor, makes me sound kind of slutty)

Ancientwanker

05-20-05, 07:17 PM

As far as the ship being moved with log rollers, its probably possible but not as easy as the raft. The raft was flag bottomed while a big ship like the Black Rock has a keel and tapered sides. It would be a very complicated operation imo.

I think its more likely another clue that the island changes its shape over time. Like when they noticed that the beach was eroding at an unusually high rate. The size of the island could be linked to the 16 year cycle.

Dread Pirate Yukon

05-20-05, 07:27 PM

Spriggan

05-20-05, 07:29 PM

I'm wondering if the island isn't a lot smaller than we think, and that the Black Rock is near the center? It seems pretty far inland.

I bet the island is a military submarine that moves around.

Wouldn't that explain the polar bears? And the hatch? And if the island is able to move up and down, it would explain how the Black Rock got so far inland.

If the "island" is a sea vessel of some kind, something that big would have to be giving of a hell of a lot of energy. Perhaps that may explain why the compass was off. And why the plane's instruments went haywire. (Remember the co- pilot saying that the instruments went bad, and they thought they were way off-course.)

nastyned

05-20-05, 07:53 PM

I think the point is that if it was a "natural" process that lead to the Black Rock being so far inland, it would have taken sufficient time that the ship would have long-since rotted away. So either someone put it there fairly recently or it somehow materialized there from a different time/location or it has been protected from aging somehow.

thoughtform

05-20-05, 08:08 PM

HortenseHysteria you crack me up! Going from harbor to harbor! LOL! I'm feeling a little snarky on this board today even if you didn't mean to! Now as far as how far inland the boat is (from a few posts above) Danielle said it was 5 kilometers inland. That would be a really long distance to pull a ship inland no matter how you tried to do it. Weren't they like hiking over rocks and mountains to get there the last episode. I still think that these vessels get to the island through a Bermuda triangle type thing. You know, geological vortex, a portal to another place.

LostInWilderness

05-20-05, 08:47 PM

beltzclan6 writes:We are ALLLLLL wrong. Either that or JG aint as good as I thought.
JG wants it to be pirates. She predicted it would be pirates. I think she's good.

Lostaboutlost

05-20-05, 08:56 PM

Can someone research the ship to see if we can find some clues as to when/where it was made? I would but I don't have very good search skills.

Spriggan

05-20-05, 09:01 PM

I think I read somewhere that Portmouth was hit by the Black Plague twice.

Vengen

05-20-05, 10:35 PM

I know a little about old sailing vessels. Looking at the ship I notice no cannon ports and it has no fortcastle but has a low poop deck/ quarter deck. My guess this is a Caravel sailing vessel. Caravels where used during the 1400s-1500s as a exploration and/or trading ships. p.s. Two of Christopher Columbus's ships the Nina and Pinta where Caravels. I could be wrong however.

Mattie

05-20-05, 10:50 PM

IMAGE HERE (http://lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-promos/sea1/1x22-exodus/exodus-promo038.jpg)

I wanted to link that picture because it's a close up of the Black Rock ship and you can REALLY see the letters on the back of it now.

But it's from next week so it's technically a spoiler image - but nothing is in it. Just what we already know: the cast standing around the ship.

LostinTrinity

05-20-05, 11:40 PM

I watched this weeks epi again last night with the hubby and he knows a lot about hard woods (pun not intended) he said if the ship were made of teak wood it would not have rotted away by now. So he doesn't know anything about old sailing ships, but that's my latest info.

lostinasheville

05-21-05, 01:21 AM

KF2- that is a really clear image. Looking at the carving of the letters, they appear to be fairly sharp- not overly weathered. Also, the letters "PORTSMOUTH" appear to be painted in gold- the paint does not seem weathered or chipped.

The condition of the carving and the painting of the letters does not look like what one might expect on a very old shipwreck.

nmiaisland

05-21-05, 01:22 AM

As far as I have been able to determine, most ships between the 16th and 19th century had frames built of oak and were planked with pine. However, warships began to be planked with oak between the mid 17th and the 18th century, and later even double planked, as oak could to some extent withstand canon fire. Remember "Old Ironsides" in the War of Independence? Oak planking was how it got its name.

Oak would take longer to rot, but someone here said that the Black Rock does not look like a war ship. I would think in a tropical climate (rain and heat) that it would not last very long. Looks like 10 to 30 years max of wear to me. In the photo just posted (from next week's show) the carving on the name certainly looks in remarkable good shape, but the soft material between the wood grain on the surface of the planks have been worn away, albeit by expert set builders.

I don't see how it could have been there for 200 years, unless it was periodically maintained, i.e. painted and varnished and so on. If that were done, yes.

Badger

05-21-05, 01:48 AM

"Remember "Old Ironsides" in the War of Independence?"

Yes, the USS Constitution. It is still a commissioned warship and is in nearly pristine condition. It's a floating museum in Boston. It was launched in 1797 and put to sea the following year.

Anyway, my point isn't a history lesson but rather just because a ships design is old, or the ship itself is old, does not mean it has been sitting and rotting all that time.

We don't know how long the Black Rock has been at its present location. There are still ships of that type sailing to this day. Although granted i'm sure it's been there for a long time. How it got there, amoung many other questions surrounding it, remain to be answered.

It's been mentioned that the ship may have ran aground when the island was mostly covered by water for whatever reason. I find that theory to be the most plausible as I doubt anyone would transport a vessel of that size overland even it were possible. A seemingly impossible task given the terrain.

obsessedlostfan

05-21-05, 01:57 AM

Guys,I just realized how much of the island hasn't been truly explored.Thats why next year will be imperative for the castaways to venture on missions and side quests,what with a galleon (I think),seemingly so close,how funny is it that MICHAEL barely managed to build a raft from left over parts of a plane crash,when a vessel was close by,in need of repairs,giving all the gang the ability to leave the island.

Brian

05-21-05, 02:25 AM

obsessedlostfan,

That's a very good point. I think most of us believe that there is a possibility that there's almost no end to what they may find on the island. Granted, a small part of the island has been explored. The only reason I can give for this is, Season 2!

I think we'll see a lot more exploration of the island next season. If not, then.....just damn! :)

LostIslandJedi

05-21-05, 03:03 AM

Leuthen & obsessedlostfan,

Yep...season 2 is where they are going to be doing more searching of the island...the producers have said so in interviews. JJ & Co. have confirmed that they will be searching the island out more next season.

Leuthen go to the episode boards and reply to me replying to you...lol...page 18 I think? Any thoughts? Possibilities?

obsessedlostfan

05-21-05, 03:14 AM

LostIslandJedi, I personally cannot wait for SEASON-2,the further exploration of the island,will be such a treat,and to see the old/new characters co-exist. (My only concern will be the fate of the rafters,they surely wouldn't get rid of SAWYER,would they?

Brian

05-21-05, 03:31 AM

LostIslandJedi,

Thanks for the heads up, I think now, you most likely have read my response.

LostIslandJedi

05-21-05, 03:56 AM

Obessed...high fives! Heck ya! Can't wait to see where it goes....

Leuthen --- thanks, and got it. I replied too. ;)

Obessed --- the producers have also said that other characters are coming into play as regulars in season 2...which means some season 1 main characters are either going to die...or become minor and not be as important. Sooooo....dont know whats going to happen in the finale! :eek Cross those fingers for your favorite characters...

LostIslandJedi

05-21-05, 04:02 AM

Obessed....

That last post...talking about season 1 characters getting pushed aside for season 2 newbies...here is the link to the interview that talks about it...but be careful...possible spoilers may be there....

www.usaweekend.com/05_iss..._lost.html (http://www.usaweekend.com/05_issues/050508/050508tv_lost.html)

nmiaisland

05-21-05, 07:00 AM

Badger32
We don't know how long the Black Rock has been at its present location. There are still ships of that type sailing to this day.

Good point. The ship, though old in design, could have been built recently or, as I noted before, could have simply been well maintained through the years. These explanations would be easier to accept than "time portals." I may be wrong, but I recall the shows creators saying something to the effect that they would not resort to the paranormal.

Hodgepodge

05-21-05, 07:51 PM

TheBigCat says:...The Black Rock was rolled on logs from the ocean to where it now sits. Doing this would not be a complex task. I could be accomplished no more than 30 people with ropes and pulleys...TheBigCat, the terrain the dynamite team traversed was dense jungle, with massive trees, and lava beds. Also, the distance would've made the feat almost impossible.

beltzclan6 says:OK, if I hear another Pirate ship / Time Warp / Space Alien theory, I'm going to puke. These guys all have some serious talent writing, and ABC I think would be very skeptical about a scifi flick on their main network...Someone needs to point Beltzclan6 to the interview where Damon Lindelof admits to the word "time" being removed from the type of work Danielle's science team were doing.

Mattie

05-21-05, 08:03 PM

Someone needs to point Beltzclan6 to the interview where Damon Lindelof admits to the word "time" being removed from the type of work Danielle's science team was doing.

I think there's definitely something time-related going on. I'm not saying it's a time warp and they're all in the year 2055 or the year 1965 but there's definitely some reason they wanted to include "Time." for Danielle's answer.

And take a look at everyone on the island and most of the casting for the people in the flashbacks - they always have wrist watches on.

I know watches aren't an uncommon thing to wear...but literally almost everyone on the island has one on and in the flashbacks the characters most always do. And it's noticeable too.

artemisia

05-21-05, 08:26 PM

If the ship is newish now---

maybe the lost are NOW in 1600-1800.

Everyone from Danielle to the smugglers has gone back in time.

That's why no planes fly overhead. They don't exist yet.

JacksGirlfriend

05-21-05, 08:53 PM

Actually that's not such a bad idea. I could consider that.

He certainly wouldn't know what Ontario was.

Ethan was living with the castaways for awhile when Hurley interrogated him. He was probably listening very carefully to how they spoke and what they talked about. As you know, he was not overly specific. When talking to an American, most people would have said "Chatham, Ontario - that's in Canada." Ethan however uses only one word because that's probably all he knows and he probably has no idea where it is, just knows it exists in Hurley's time.

He was stilted in his conversation and appeared to be very alert, as though trying to anticipate how he should behave. Granted you can chalk it up to being shy, but after living in close proximity to strangers for a time, I think shyness would wear off out of necessity.

I don't think he belonged to this time, this reality or this place.

nmiaisland

05-21-05, 10:16 PM

Someone needs to point Beltzclan6 to the interview where Damon Lindelof admits to the word "time" being removed from the type of work Danielle's science team were doing.

I think this qualifies as a spoiler and I'd rather not know. That said, I'd be disappointed if there does turn out to be a time warp, a time portal or something like time travel. It just seems to easy. It would be like taking down the net in tennis.

We might bear in mind that the TPTB seem to enjoy nothing more than misleading the viewers, so I am not sure you can trust everything you read even in an interview. I don't really care; I just hope all the people who work on the show continue doing their good work.

Bongo Fury

05-21-05, 10:28 PM

NMiaIsland
but someone who knows ships (if they have a screen cap) should be able to date the ship to within a specif era and say what it was likely used for.Someone on another forum crossposted a picture of the Black Rock to numerous sailing/historical groups seeking information. The consensus from the 'Internet experts' was that the ship is a complete fantasy, a movie prop. It is an amalgam of several ships/designs from several eras. The rudder is from a much larger ship, the rigging is from several ships, and the body of the ship is a hodgepodge. So the Black Rock is a chimera. One thing pointed out by the sailing folks was the complete lack of barnacles on the hull, any ship that spent any time in the water would have an obvious layer encrusting the ship below the waterline. Another point of interest was the lack of tar/pitch covering the area below the waterline. This was a standard practice on sailing ships to waterproof them and to make them last longer.

As far as the experts opinion of how long the ship would last in the tropical jungle, the consensus was, not very long. The ship would retain water which would hasten it's decay. And it would make a poor shelter, so it would be unlikely that people would live there and maintain it to last longer.

Hodgepodge

05-21-05, 10:40 PM

Bongo Fury1 says:...and the body of the ship is a hodgepodge...BF1, should I be offended? ;)

Bongo Fury

05-21-05, 11:03 PM

BF1, should I be offended?I said the body was A hodgepodge, not THE hodgepodge.

But if you want to be mad at me that's cool. I'm use to it. But you'll have to get in line.

nmiaisland

05-21-05, 11:59 PM

Bongo Fury1
Someone on another forum crossposted a picture of the Black Rock to numerous sailing/historical groups seeking information. The consensus from the 'Internet experts' was that the ship is a complete fantasy, a movie prop.

I was afraid of that. It does have a Disney look, so maybe it is the Black Pearl after all. The question now is, was the design intentional or the result of a research lapse in the props department.

mbs090

05-22-05, 05:27 PM

Ancientwanker writes "For some reason I assumed that the dynamite wasnt from the Black Rock itself but that Danielle or her team had stashed some there."

Danielle's ship was completely different from Black Rock right? In that case why would she stash her dynamite in the Black Rock, if supposedly [some people think] the others are living in it / maintaining it? I'm not trying to make a point, I'm sort of asking someone else to make it for me cause I don't understand. I may have misunderstood what Ancientwanker was saying [do we know in fact where the dyn. came from?]

mbs090

05-22-05, 06:06 PM

One more thing-
Many of you are trying to disprove what others are trying to prove about the ship being a prisoner ship. As you could certainly be right and the ship could be anything based on what we've been told so far, wouldn't it make for better tv for it to be a prisoner ship? It seems too coincidental that most of the LOST characters have criminal backgrounds (that we know of so far), and the ship says Black Rock Portsmouth. Would you rather see the characters find out the ship is a prisoner ship and the island has some sort of power to punish those who deserve it? Or find out that yeah, a lot of them were criminals, but that ship was just transporting designer handbags to Australia..

LostHorizon

05-22-05, 06:45 PM

So far, I've read 9+ pages of posts on this thread, and I'm surprised that only Hodgepodge here considered that the Black Rock could be a Slave ship. It does seems that a Pirate ship or Prisoner ship is the popular consensus here. But when I saw the previews of the next weeks episode, that definitely flashed thu my mind,especially with the scene of the skeleton in chains. Of course, maybe this is because the Island and the ship are located in the Pacific, and the Slave trade was mostly in the Atlantic. But if it turns out that it is an old slave ship, This could make things interesting....But having a slave ship with the name "Black Rock" would probably not be very PC on a Network show right? :)

Mellis12

05-22-05, 06:54 PM

the scene of the skeleton in chains. Perhaps the skeleton is one of Danielle's team, put in irons to protect her or the others from the disease from which this person is afflicted.

Danielle says the Black Rock is in the Dark Territory. Did we ever establish exactly what the Dark Territory is? I'm sure I missed it, but could someone elaborate?

Mattie

05-22-05, 06:55 PM

The most Danielle has said about the "dark territory" is it is where her crew became "infected". Supposedly if you aren't in and out of there quickly that it infects you somehow.

JacksGirlfriend

05-22-05, 07:06 PM

Although the ship looks older to me it's thoroughly possible it was a convict ship (not slave ship) heading for Tasmania or Australia. Apparently most of the convict fleet left from Portsmouth and although some of the names are those of women, many are not. Here's some information:

www.convictcentral.com/ (http://www.convictcentral.com/)

(yes, occasionally I do back up my ideas - when I'm interested enough)

kiwipat

05-23-05, 12:41 AM

Yes I've also considered the slave ship idea - see black rock thread under Theories and Speculation

rknorton91

05-23-05, 02:43 AM

Danielle says the Black Rock is in the Dark Territory. Did we ever establish exactly what the Dark Territory is? I'm sure I missed it, but could someone elaborate?

I was kinda of wondering about that dark territory. Do you think it is possible to continue with the light vs. dark theme. Notice how the maps of the one island show two distinct mountainous ridge lines that run the length of the island on either side. Do you think maybe one side is the dark territory and the other side is the light territory? and maybe the survivors are in no mans land in between?

TheBigCat

05-23-05, 08:12 AM

Post removed by author

JacksGirlfriend

05-23-05, 09:12 PM

skeleton in chains.

Chains do not necessarily imply slave ship. Actually I'd say there was very little slave trade done by the English in the Pacific. Slaves were generally captured for the plantations in the Americas. The labor for the colonies in the Pacific region was generally of an indentured servant/criminal variety.

The chains imply a "prisoner." Now the prisoner transport ships were usually loaded with less than hardened criminals -thieves, beggars, prostitutes, debtors and those who rebelled against the crown. (Hardened criminals were generally executed.) I imagine though there were some that occasionally got violent. That could explain the chains on one individual.

Also if it was a pirate ship, it could be a mutineer, a captured captain, just about anything. Most of a captured crew would go along with it out of necessity if they had lost control of their vessel. A captain might not.

pinnerman

05-23-05, 10:32 PM

I've been busy, so it took me a while to go through this thread because it had grown so much. I agree with those that think this ship is simply a prop (maybe not the best either) made for the show. We'll find out more about it, and as a plot device, it will serve a certain purpose I'm sure. But there's enough inconsistency with it to make me think it could be a lot of different things, that was probably done on purpose. So I'm not saying anyone is wrong, I'm just saying that we'll probably find out quickly more about it's origin. I'm sure Danielle's been in it and knows it's story, so I'll let her tell me what it is next week.

I think, by far, the biggest inconsistency is the lack of decay. That either IS a nod to the possibility of something time-related happening on the island, or it's just a gross oversight by the props department.

My question is this. WHERE IS THE DAMN RADIO TOWER?
From "Numbers":

Danielle- "It was weeks before we found the radio tower."

Hurley- "There's a radio tower on this island?"

Danielle- "Yes. Up...buy the black rock."

Let me say this, I like this show, but if Hurley doesn't ask Danielle where the radio tower is while they're AT the Block Rock (he's with Danielle in the group at the ship), I'm going to go ballistic and start throwing stuff in the general area of my TV (I won't hit it though, costs too damn much). And why did she say "up"? They followed a riverbed most of the way to the Black Rock, I still think that at higher water levels, that could be a logical explanation for how it got that far in land, but it didn't seem like they really went to a higher elevation. I mean, the very fact that they were by a riverbed indicates that they were maybe at a lower elevation, must be some more waterfalls on the island.

At any rate, they've all heard about the radio transmission on the island by now. Hurley has absolutely NO EXCUSE as a character if he fails to ask her where the radio tower is in the last part of Exodus. I will lose a certain degree of faith in the writers if he doesn't bring it up. I can understand why NO ONE HAS ASKED DANIELLE WHAT YEAR SHE LEFT PORT AND CRASHED THERE, thats easy, they're written that way on purpose. Every episode that goes by where someone doesn't ask her that question adds to the mounting evidence that something related to TIME could be going on here, and her answer to that would blow the whole deal one way or the other. Either that, or they want us to THINK like that, but something else could be going on, who knows. They've tried really hard to not give answers that would limit where they are going with the show.

Back to the question at hand, I'm confident that Hurley WILL ask Danielle where the radio tower is this week, because some of the spoilers that I've read indicate that we will find out more about the source of the radio transmission in the finale. Let's hope so. I've let certain mistakes and things about this show go, and chalked them up to the artistic license by the writers. But this would be one mistake that would piss me off, flat out.

Hodgepodge

05-23-05, 11:48 PM

LostHorizon says:...But if it turns out that it is an old slave ship, This could make things interesting....But having a slave ship with the name "Black Rock" would probably not be very PC on a Network show right?I agree with this statement by LostHorizon. I don't think TPTB would combine a slave ship and name it "Black Rock". So, I'm going with prisoner ship.

pinnerman says:...Back to the question at hand, I'm confident that Hurley WILL ask Danielle where the radio tower is this week, because some of the spoilers that I've read indicate that we will find out more about the source of the radio transmission in the finale. Let's hope so. I've let certain mistakes and things about this show go, and chalked them up to the artistic license by the writers. But this would be one mistake that would piss me off, flat out.And Pinnerman I would agree with your assumption, if Hurley wasn't a scary-cat. He's going to be so scared, he's not going to remember his name.

A1sauce

05-23-05, 11:54 PM

Pinnerman, I completely agree. In fact, the whole story of the radio tower at the black rock had me pissed off entirely from day one. Think about it: has Hurley told anyone that it exists? Now, Hurley isn't a very secretive character (maybe when it comes to his personal crap, but not island matters), so why, please tell me why, hasn't he mentioned it to any one of the other survivors? When he didn't tell everyone at the end of Numbers, my TV was in peril, expenses be damned. No, he just strolls out, hands them the battery all relaxed-like, as if he didn't just learn something very intriguing that needs to be discussed immediately, and put in the hands of people who aren't completely incompetent. This very important piece of information has been just disregarded by him for NO REASON. So yeah, I don't think we have much hope, if any, of Hurley bringing it up in the finale.

MagiclBlingBling

05-24-05, 12:31 AM

has Hurley told anyone that it exists?

HE doesn't need to; They (basically) figured it out in the first or second episode when they tried to send out a transmission. Sayid could ask Rousseau about her transmission while they're out exploring (and I would guess Sayid would ask that before HUrley would based on their characters.)

A1sauce

05-24-05, 12:51 AM

1. At which point did I question whether or not they know there's a power source on the island?
2. Knowing the location of this power source wouldn't help them, I guess? Is that what you're trying to say?

Hodgepodge

05-24-05, 01:03 AM

A1sauce says: ...Now, Hurley isn't a very secretive character (maybe when it comes to his personal crap, but not island matters), so why, please tell me why, hasn't he mentioned it to any one of the other survivors?... Maybe he has A1sauce! Like you said, and it's been verified by Arzt. Hurley ain't no refrigerator. He can't keep noth'n. So maybe another member of the dynamite team might recommend looking for the radio tower while they're at the "Black Rock".

Noav Sigless

05-24-05, 02:13 AM

Well, they are in a hurry to get the dynamite and get back before the Others kill everybody. And Danielle's message is still being brodcast(for 16 unanswered years). And being in the scary dark part of the island probably has Hurley as creeped out as Arzt. He probably just wants to get the stuff and get back before his arm falls off.
I'm sure once parts of the raft start drifting onto shore the next plan will be getting to the tower and boosting the signal. They should change the message too, maybe its being ignored because its in French.

pinnerman

05-24-05, 04:22 AM

I said this earlier:

I can understand why NO ONE HAS ASKED DANIELLE WHAT YEAR SHE LEFT PORT AND CRASHED THERE, thats easy, they're written that way on purpose. Every episode that goes by where someone doesn't ask her that question adds to the mounting evidence that something related to TIME could be going on here, and her answer to that would blow the whole deal one way or the other. Either that, or they want us to THINK like that, but something else could be going on, who knows. They've tried really hard to not give answers that would limit where they are going with the show.

All I will say is, if you're a fan of spoilers and you're interested in the possible time element to the show, you need to go read the most recent 5-23 spoilers on Kristin's Spoiler thread, which is tacked to the top of that board. Enjoy.

LostInWilderness

05-24-05, 06:38 AM

Let's get a small group of lostaways and go get some dynamite. Make sure Hurley comes with us. We may need his one-liners to succeed.

MagiclBlingBling

05-24-05, 08:05 PM

1. At which point did I question whether or not they know there's a power source on the island?

You didn't, but you made it sound like only Hurley and Rousseau knew about the radio tower, which is incorrect, because in the second episode when they try to send out a transmission they figure out that there's already one going from a strong power source on the island (meaning they figured out about the radio tower). Also, like Hodge said, Hurley may have told someone, but even if he didn't, other (more reliable and courageous people) people also know about the tower. Like I said, Sayid being brave, smart and having a past reationship with Rousseau would be more liekly to ask her about her transmissioin than Hurley in my opinion.

nmiaisland

05-25-05, 01:23 AM

As to whether the Black Rock could have been moved inland:

In the 1982 film Fitzcarraldo by Werner Herzog, the title character attempts to haul a steam boat up and over the mountains in Peru in order to launch it into an otherwise inaccessible river. Most of the sources I checked said the film was based on a true story, but what is not in doubt is that Herzog actually did have a real steamboat hauled up a mountain using only simple ropes and pulleys and men. The whole way, all by hand, no machines. Hired Indians, just like the real Fitzcarraldo supposedly did. And when I say "steam boat," if you are visualizing something the size of the African Queen, no. Much, much bigger. Huge. Here (http://www.walther-nienburg.de/Kinski/Filme/fitzcarraldo.html) is a site with some photos. It's in Deutsche, but the pictures give you an idea of what they did. It's no wonder that the movie took three years to make.

There is a documentary about all the trials and tribulations surrounding this film as well. Klaus Kinski (Nastassja's father) starred, by the way. About Kinski and Herzog, I'll just say they were quite a pair. Here (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19820101/REVIEWS/201010325) is Roger Ebert's Review.

The Black Rock could have been moved inland if they had enough people and if they had the will. As to why they would want to, I can't see any reason. I'm starting to get the feeling that the whole island is some sort of deranged theme park.

. . . . . .

Edited later: Well, I'm wrong. At some point, according to the documentary film Burden of Dreams about the making of Fitzcarraldo they had to use a bulldozer to augment the pulleys for part of the way. If you read Ebert's review of the documentary (stars getting diseases, getting caught in the middle of a war, director going crazy, and so on) you will probably be willing to cut them some slack. And it was up the side of a mountain.

A1sauce

05-25-05, 01:56 AM

you made it sound like only Hurley and Rousseau knew about the radio tower, which is incorrect, because in the second episode when they try to send out a transmission they figure out that there's already one going from a strong power source on the island
But...they are the only ones who know about the radio tower. Yes, the others know there must be a source, but Hurley is the only one who knows the location. Hurley may have told someone, but even if he didn't, other (more reliable and courageous people) people also know about the tower. Like I said, Sayid being brave, smart and having a past reationship with Rousseau would be more liekly to ask her about her transmissioin than Hurley in my opinion.
Something like telling everyone about the tower is not the type of scene that gets left to the imagination. The writers would consider this a "big deal", no way they wouldn't show it. He hasn't told anybody, because as terrible as this show is at developing its mysteries, someone still would have said something to Danielle about the tower at the black rock while they were heading to it.

azteclady

05-25-05, 03:08 PM

Bumping for people who want to discuss the possibilities before tonight's finale!

LostHorizon

05-26-05, 01:02 AM

Lost Horizon wrote:

So far, I've read 9 pages of posts on this thread, and I'm surprised that only Hodgepodge here considered that the Black Rock could be a Slave ship.

I guess Hodgepodge and I were correct in our assumptions!
As soon as I saw the Black Rock, I thought "Slave Ship!"

:) :) :) :) :)

Jacksgirlfriend wrote:

Chains do not necessarily imply slave ship. Actually I'd say there was very little slave trade done by the English in the Pacific. Slaves were generally captured for the plantations in the Americas. The labor for the colonies in the Pacific region was generally of an indentured servant/criminal variety.

But you forgot what kind of show this is.....
..... And I thought you out of all people would be "thinking outside of the box"!
:lol

TheBigCat

05-26-05, 05:56 AM

It's still not a slave ship. Slave ships had shelves where the "cargo" was chained so that a ship the size of the Black Rock could transport over 200 people.

"...from the East Coast of Africa, probably Madagascar." or something like that.

Danielle is, to use Charlie's words, certifiable, and the bats in Locke's belfrey have taken total control and are having a clearance sale, all traces of reason must go, cheap, make an offer. In other words, treat everything they say as suspect.

azteclady

05-26-05, 05:59 AM

TheBigCat, I agree with you - Locke is guessing and doing his best to appear knowledgeable. He's a bit less obnoxious than the late Arzt, but is making the stuff up just as much.

Oh, and it was Mozambique, I believe.

Badger

05-26-05, 07:53 AM

It may not have been a "slave ship" per se but as we were told it was carrying slaves. We should take that at face value as far as I'm concerned.

We also know it was carrying mining equipment and dynamite was certainly used for mining. Perhaps the "slaves" were used as labor for a mine of some kind, ie: slave labor. In other words just because they said "slaves" does not automatically mean they were slaves from Africa being transported to the new world for example.

JJ Abram's recently stated the dynamite has been sitting in the jungle heat for about 100 years. That would put it around 1905 and well after the invention of dynamite. Probably well after the ships construction as well.

As to the black dust we saw what if it was coal dust? Maybe it's a coal mine. "Black Rock" would be a rather appropriate name for a ship carrying coal mining equipment would it not?

The sounds we heard were distinctly mechanical in nature. Mining equipment maybe? A escape shaft with a ladder leading to the surface? The hole Locke was being pulled into?

Maybe they need more labor and that is why Walt, a young boy, was "needed". I know, disgusting thought isn't it.

violet02

05-26-05, 08:03 AM

TheBigCat

05-26-05, 08:18 AM

While they were inside the ship I didn't see anything that looked remotely new, so I think we can now say safely that she has been there for a longer time than she should have survived. Agreed?

Badger

05-26-05, 10:03 AM

Sorry if this question was already asked but in regards to the dynamite on the ship... The side of the case said "Explosives" in a military font that looked stenciled on there. Given the age of the ship is that possible? Has that Military font existed since the 1800's?

JJ Abram's said the dynamite has been sitting in the jungle heat for about 100 years. If that is correct then it would put it there around 1905, well after the invention of dynamite. It's certainly within the realm of possibility that typeface was in use at that time.

Given the fact it was carrying mining equipment (see my post above) dynamite is not out of the question in that regard whatsoever. The Black Rock itself could be older though.

LostHorizon

05-26-05, 12:39 PM

TheBigCat wrote:

It's still not a slave ship. Slave ships had shelves where the "cargo" was chained so that a ship the size of the Black Rock could transport over 200 people.

We've only seen a part of the ship. And we wouldn't expect to still see hundreds of slaves or their bodies still lying around now!
Also, there were different types of slave ships also, depending on the type of business the captain of the ship concentrated on. Ships in the early 17th century did not carry that many slaves ( "loose packers", like what the Black Rock appears to be ) and carrying supplies to the new colonies. Only until the late 18th century did they become "tight packers" (http://beatl.barnard.columbia.edu/students/his3487/lembrich/seminar53.html), when Ship captains went full on into the business of slavery transportation.
Also, most slave ships transported cargo on return journeys from the colonies and from Europe during it's triangular journey path , and also had large quantities of provisions to keep the slaves alive, so there were other large cargo holds. Here is some info on the late 18th century French ship Fredensborge (http://www.unesco.no/fredensborg/the_slave_ship_Fredensborg/01.htm) form more info....

As for Locke's Knowledge of the ship, who is to say that he is making it up? We still really don't know how much knowledge he knows naturally pre Island and that which he acquired post-Crash.

TheBigCat

05-26-05, 04:25 PM

Thanks for the information and links, Lost Horizon. I did some research on the slave trade (gotta love the information superhighway), and found out that Mozambique was a source of slaves up until around 1900. The Spanish and Portugese continued the traffic in human cargo long after the Britain, France and America banned it, although British and American merchantmen frequently engaged in the the trade in open violation of their respective nations laws.

All of this raises some potentially disturbing questions, particularly in light of the abduction of Walt. I don't even want to say it. Could Alex's father have been black? Did The Others release Claire when they had satisfied themselves that the child she carried was white, only to have Ethan take matters into his own hands because he was obsessed with her. (This is assuming that Danielle was scratched as she was freeing Claire from the place where The Others had left her, and that Danielle had not made the race connection when she stole Aaron. All quite a stretch, to be sure, but if she had made that connection she would have warned the Lostaways to protect Walt.)

lexmachine

05-26-05, 11:13 PM

Badger32,

That is the most logical, reasonable, and well thought out theory I have yet read on these boards. Nice work!

Lex

kiwipat

05-27-05, 04:53 AM

Yes most convincing Badger.

Still there is the question of why a coal mine equipment ship carrying slaves from Mozambique should find itself on the Island?

Maybe they were on their way to the coal mines of neighboring Madagascar or another country in the Indian Ocean & disappeared into the Mozambique Triangle only to reappear high and dry on the island. Check out the thread below:

The Multiple Portal/Triangle Thread (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sageRange?topicID=26.topic&start=101&stop=116)

Also, now that slaves have entered the picture, maybe the “sickness” Danielle was talking about is Small Pox. This was a very lethal disease in the 18th & 19th Centuries, and was primarily carried by transient African slaves.

Hodgepodge

05-27-05, 11:37 PM

Badger32 says:...JJ Abram's recently stated the dynamite has been sitting in the jungle heat for about 100 years. That would put it around 1905 and well after the invention of dynamite. Probably well after the ships construction as well...Badger32, can you point me to this article or interview? I'm surprised JJ would let something like that out of the bag.

Trapin89

05-27-05, 11:46 PM

Probably because he heard it from some one who heard it from someone who heard someone say that JJ said the dynamite is kinda old.

musical geek

09-18-05, 07:22 PM

Badger32,

I agree with you on your theory of what is going on with the whole Black Rock thing. I certainly DO NOT believe that it was a slave ship, but a prison ship. Back in the 1800s (my dates are all guesses), Australia was used as a prison for British crimanals that had gotten way too out of hand for them back in London. So, since the Americas were now becoming more and more of a country, they sent them to Australia. The reason for the chains and skeletons hanging there.

Also, the dynamite could have been ordered by the chief of the prison in Australia for some construction that they were doing or for different reasons. I believe that the tide had brought the ship in over the years.

Everyone,

Also, a new theory just popped into my head. What if time doesn't really exist on the island? What if time stopped or was very slow on the island and everything around the world was rapidly faster. Like, we know that Danielle has been on the island for 16 years. What if it has been longer? If you notice Ethan's clothing from the episode where Hurley was taking a census, Ethan was wearing any kind of clothing, it looked like he was wearing around 1950s shirt and pants. If you notice, the buttons are spaced out differently and he buttoned the shirt very close to the neck.

Also, how does Ethan have this super strength power to be able to beat up Jack pretty badly? Is it something that The Others have only, or do you get in time?

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/4563/katsawsig3hq.jpg

ARE YOU LOST????

drabauer

09-18-05, 08:15 PM

Welcome to the Lost-tv Theories and Speculation board musical geek. Below you will find indexes and transcripts of our various discussions; Current threads indexes open threads by subject area and topic, the Caves is a collection of major topics discussed during season 1 of Lost, and the Lost-tv Meta-index is a master index by keyword to all lost subjects discussed on the Theory board.

We have an excellent thread devoted to discussion of the black rock.
I will therefore close this thread, but I urge you to recopy your information there.

Thank you!

The black rock (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sage?topicID=1920.topic)

drabauer

09-18-05, 08:16 PM

Esoteric

09-19-05, 01:16 AM

I don't know if anyone has mentioned anything like this before previously but here it goes... Today I accidently ran accross a strange reference to "Black Rock" in this book I was reading called "The Island of Lost Maps" by Miles Harvey. In a nutshell it's a true cirme book about a guy who is a old/ancient map thief. The book also tells the history of nautical cartography. In the first chapter, "Black Rock" is mentioned. To paraphrase the passage, "Black Rock" is a nautical myth/ legend that is sometimes marked as a location on ancient maps referring to a mythical place that is believed to be the spring/source for a river that runs through the center of the earth, it was believed by ancient mariners that this river provided all of the water in the world. The legend also states that "Black Rock" has strange magnetic properties and that it was rumored to draw ships towards it pulling the nails from the ship and essentially making it fall apart leaving the crew to an unpleasant demise. I know this is just more supposition, but it would be cool if the ship "Black Rock" in LOST is a metaphorical reference to this myth/legend/location. I also found it kind of humorous that book I found this information in had both "LOST" and "Island" in the title :lol . Hmmm...

LostInWilderness

09-19-05, 02:27 AM

I have never heard of this (http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?show=HARDCOVER:USED:0375501517:16.95&page=excerpt), but drabauer would know for sure. It a new and interesting tidbit for me.

Thanks Esoteric, and welcome to the board. Please read the welcome forum and posting guidelines. Have fun reading and posting.

Hodgepodge

09-19-05, 06:45 PM

Esoteric, let me welcome you to Lost-TV. I'm sure you're going to enjoy the community. Make sure to read the Welcome forum, it's easy to get lost. Now to your post.

Esoteric says:...Today I accidently ran accross a strange reference to "Black Rock" in this book I was reading called "The Island of Lost Maps" by Miles Harvey. In a nutshell it's a true cirme book about a guy who is a old/ancient map thief. The book also tells the history of nautical cartography. In the first chapter, "Black Rock" is mentioned. To paraphrase the passage, "Black Rock" is a nautical myth/ legend that is sometimes marked as a location on ancient maps referring to a mythical place that is believed to be the spring/source for a river that runs through the center of the earth, it was believed by ancient mariners that this river provided all of the water in the world. The legend also states that "Black Rock" has strange magnetic properties and that it was rumored to draw ships towards it pulling the nails from the ship and essentially making it fall apart leaving the crew to an unpleasant demise. I know this is just more supposition, but it would be cool if the ship "Black Rock" in LOST is a metaphorical reference to this myth/legend/location...This is a very interesting read Esoteric. With a lot on links to Lost.

Especially the idea the "Black Rock" is mythical. Also, the strange magnectic properties that draws ships toward it. Doesn't that sound like the problem Sayid told Locke. Ships breaking apart could be contributed to Danielle's ship as well.

We should definitely add "The Island of Lost Maps" to our literally index. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

And again, welcome!

cat999999999999

09-29-05, 05:57 AM

S
P
O
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E
R

S
P
A
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E

The recent Chicago Tribune Lost Interview with DL mentions the book the Third Policeman by Flann O'Brien. O'Brien lived in Blackrock as a youth and attended Blackrock College.

ICO

09-29-05, 06:47 AM

I dont know if this has been posted yet but......

Locke says that the Black Rock is a slave ship.

However, dynamite wasn't patented until 1867. The name was in English, but by that time the Us and Britain had both abolished slavery. Also, England stopped sending convicts to Australia (which was my first thought if it wasnt a slave ship) about 1868, and I doubt dynamite was that common by then.

Have fun figuring this out;)

cinderellabop

10-17-05, 01:53 PM

bump.

Lord SteveO

01-01-06, 06:10 PM

I'm sorry if this has been discussed already, i've probably missed some piece of vital info in an episode or something!

Can anybody shed any light on the Black Rock?

We know it is a ship, it's fairly old, has people chained in it, its name is in English, and may well have been carrying dynamite.

Do we know anything more?

One thing i'm unsure of is how the hell did it end up in the middle of the jungle? It's fairly far inland from what i can gather, or at leasts it's high above the water level. This seems a bit odd to me, how does such a ship get there?

Also, was the ship heading to the island on purpose, or was it simply wrecked there?

Lethal B

01-01-06, 07:05 PM

It was probably caught in some sort of storm/tsunami and washed ashore.

Lord SteveO

01-01-06, 08:28 PM

I did think of that, but i've got a feeling there may be another reason.

Not sure, just have to wait and see i guess!

bhambulldog

01-01-06, 08:36 PM

I hope that they go back to it in the second half of season 2. They really did not explore it very much ... they just grabbed the dynomite and left.

Lord SteveO

01-01-06, 08:52 PM

That's what i mean really. We know very little about the ship. They get told it exists go find it and then leave once they have the explosive.
The fact it's inside the dark zone or whatever it's called adds to my interest in it.
I suspect the ship holds a key to the island's past, it's obviously been there a long time. Did it run aground, or was it taken there on purpose? And did those on board know about the island and its power?

badboy

01-01-06, 09:27 PM

I think Tsunami, or possibly glacial melting and shifting or high water levels etc. Btw am I the only person that can see writing under the Black Rock name bit on the back-end of the ship? I thought I could make out _ _ _ _ _ mouth - so Portsmouth was my natural assumption. Portsmouth was where most British warships were built in Imperial days. Cud be me being silly as usual though.

Lord SteveO

01-01-06, 09:37 PM

Yup, definately says Portsmouth on the back of the ship.

Looks to me like it is an old galleon, though why it would be in the Pacific i have no idea.

I've looked about and some people seem to think it is a slave/prison ship. Apparently the first ships carrying prisoners to Australia in the 1800s left from Portsmouth. I would guess this could be one of those ships.

http://familyscreenscene.allinfoabout.com/lostimages/lost_1_exodus1_blackrock.jpg

badboy

01-01-06, 09:44 PM

Just maybe the reason there was drilling equipment on the ship is 'cos the British thought there was something worth drilling for below the islands surface; after all the hatch is underground as well. Maybe we'll get a black rock flashback, that would be cool.

Edit: To anyone who is good at naval history: Would we be likely to see HMS (Her/His majesty's ship) on a royal navy commisioned ship? If so then I'd say the Black Rock is much more likely to be a merchant vessel. Just a thought.

dumwaldo

01-02-06, 02:37 AM

One thing i'm unsure of is how the hell did it end up in the middle of the jungle? It's fairly far inland from what i can gather, or at leasts it's high above the water level. This seems a bit odd to me, how does such a ship get there?
i think the ship might have sank and landed there. of course one also has to believe that 100 years ago this island was under water in order for this to make sense.

Mattie

01-02-06, 01:26 PM

The aliens beamed it there from their Hanso spacecraft.

NokomisIsABadRobot

01-02-06, 02:04 PM

snakey

01-02-06, 03:55 PM

so much doesnt make sense so why should this. Werent there any survivors from the ship to take the remnants to build with or use in some way, let alone all the others would have stripped it like a stolen car in Newark.

azteclady

01-02-06, 06:38 PM

What bugs me more than how it got there........is why oh why the losties didnt ever go back and grab the stuff inside (like the chains and tools)Stuff they could use to build houses instead of tents etc etc... plus the wood itself. grrrr bugs bugs bugs:mad:

Well, Danielle did say that the Black Rock was deep in *cue music* Dark Territory. So I'm guessing the audience is expected to assume that's why none of the survivors go back to scavenge useful stuff, and that for the same reason Danielle hasn't done it much. As far as why the Others don't scavenge it - good question. The answer better be good too.