2000 to 2009 Time Issues....

[salem2005]

Can someone help me out with this question...I was reading a forum on another website, and someone mentioned that when Michael was in the hospital back in Season 1...this person said they noticed a poster on the wall, some sort of Occupational Therapy poster that had a date of the year 2000 on it. Has this ever been discussed anywhere on these message boards? I did a search, but it didn't turn up anything.

The reason I ask, is because we could have a real timeline-reference going here...on the oceanicflight815. com site, they show Jack's flight baggage tag, and it appears to to be dated "09Sep21" - which would indicate that the plane was flying and crashed on Sep 21, 2009.

So...if Michael was in the hospital in 2000, and Walt was almost 2 years old then (which is stated in that flashback episode), and then on the island, Jack asks Michael how old Walt is, Michael at first says, 9, then he corrects himself and says that Walt is 10.

So...if Walt was:

almost 2 in 2000
almost 3 in 2001
almost 4 in 2002
almost 5 in 2003
almost 6 in 2004
almost 7 in 2005
almost 8 in 2006
almost 9 in 2007
almost 10 in 2008
almost 11 in 2009

...meaning he could still be 10 in 2009 and going on 11 years old.

So, if this Occupational Therapy poster really existed in the flashback episode when Michael was in the hospital....it would tie in with Jack's baggage tag being dated in 2009.

Which of course, would mean that the show either takes place in the future..meaning they are currently living on the island in the year 2009....or, some sort of time warping is going on if they are really supposed to be living in present day, 2004-2005.

And yes, I've taken into consideration the fact that they were only on the island for about 40 days or so for all of 2004-2005; but even if you look ahead 5 seasons and they stick with this format (which they said they would) - they still will only be on the island for about 200-250 days in the year 2009. So, depending on what year they crashed, in tv-show LOST time, by the time we reach the year 2009 in real-time, it will have been less than a year that these survivors were on the island.

So, if the 2000 poster exists...we are looking at a real time problem here...which would lead me back to my time travel / time existence theories.

Am I making any sense? This is very confusing and much harder to put into words than I thought it would be.

[BoltonsTache]

I don't have enough brainpower right now to integrate this into your timeline, but when Michael first met with his lawyer in 2.2, it was 9/10/01 or before, what with the WTC out the window. Not sure how old Walt was during this sequence of flashbacks, 3 or 4?

[Braden Westbrook]

It has been quite a while since I've watched Tabula Rasa (Kate's first flashback episode), but I clearly remember the farmer's canned food having labels of 2003 & 2004 very visible...and this was in Sydney just prior to being picked up by the Marshal and boarding flight 815. If you go by this, the crash occured in present-day (2004).

Just one observation that has probably been mentioned before...

[Purgatori]

can you get a screen cap of the baggage or the hospital thingie?

[DohBoy]

09 = the 9th month of the year = September. Or the 09 is there for some other reason.

If it was in 2009, I'm pretty sure Christian and Jack wouldn't be saying "That's why the Boston Red Sox will never win the World Series." Because they won in 2004.

It would also make Sawyer about 41 years old (he was 8 in 1976 when he wrote the letter). Seems a bit too old to me.

[salem2005]

I don't know how to attach an image here...I have the screen capture of Jack's baggage tag. If someone can tell me how to do it, I can put it up here.

But, I do not have any pictures from the hospital of the Occupational Therapy poster...that was the reason I originally posted this message, because I never saw it in the original episode "Special"; and I was wondering if anyone else had ever seen it, or mentioned it here. Like I said, I read it on another message board and was just trying to confirm it here.

Anyway, if someone can tell me how to upload the baggage ticket for Jack, I can do that so you all can see it. As I mentioned, it came from the oceanicflight815.com website. You eventually see it when you go through exploring the various videos, audio, and pictures on that site by connecting the dots.

[salem2005]

Okay, I'm trying to connect to a friend's free Yahoo photo site to show you the photo of Jack's baggage tag...I'm not sure if this link will work or not...but I'm trying....

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/vaholtyn/album

[salem2005]

Okay, obviously that didn't work...can someone tell me what to do to get the picture posted up here?

[salem2005]

Trying it another way...

<!--EZCODE LINK START-->http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2411/jackflighttag6ee.th.jpg (http://<!--EZCODE)<!--EZCODE LINK END-->

[salem2005]

Okay, it looks like that worked...if you click on the image I think it gives you a larger view....the 09Sep21 is hard to make out, but it does look like the number 9 there.

[MJBinNC]

Really good timeline from our very own Sledgeweb:
Lost timeline (http://lost.cubit.net/)

He's done a lot of work on this and all of it makes great sense. Hope it helps a bit.

[salem2005]

That's a great site sledgeweb put together! But, it does conflict with Jack's baggage tag of 2009...so, I'm still wondering about this.

[lostmio]

poster on the wall, some sort of Occupational Therapy poster that had a date of the year 2000 on it. Has this ever been discussed anywhere on these message boards? I did a search, but it didn't turn up anything.

I've posted on it a couple of times, having seen references to it in other places too.
I've never seen a screencap so I'm calling it a myth until confirmed.
Now that the dvd is out, I'm hoping someone will confirm it or put it to rest.

[salem2005]

Yes, I hope someone can go back to that episode and see if they can find it and get a screen capture of it.

But...we do have the baggage tag from Jack's luggage, and I'm pretty sure that is 09 on it.

[ponderingthings]

I don't have a way to confirm this but I read on another site that the date on Kate's time capsule was
The date of Kate’s time capsule is August 15, 1989
does this help?

[SchnyderFan]

I'm going today to buy the first season on DVD. I'll watch the first couple of episodes and see what turns up.

[lostincyberspace]

Also consider the following, (I think I'm the first to post this?)The petition served to Michael by Susan.

From what I can make out it says Susan Lloyd born ? 23, 1967 now being 36 years old, meaning this petition was written in 2003. Walt being how old then? Remember he is still the little kid getting the stuffed polar bear in S2E2 flashback.

This supports the year 2009 timeline.

Other things I can read is that Susan Lloyd, unmarried, residing at 5403 Arlington New York.
Young Walt born at General Hospital, 3rd and Main, the date written of "August 24, 1964" which I assume is Michael's birthday.


http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/5692/petit19ze.jpg
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/170/pet31yw.jpg

[lostmio]

I'm going today to buy the first season on DVD. I'll watch the first couple of episodes and see what turns up.

If the 2000 poster exists, it should be in "Special", about half-way through, in the rehab unit after Michael is hit by the car.

[SpidermanHouston]

You are getting the flight baggage ticket from the oceanicair website. This is the same site that puts out fake scripts that includes zombies. The ticket is not found on the show. The poster found in Michael's flashback is more than likely just an anachronism. This happens all the time in movies and TV shows that take place in the past. If it takes place in 2009, Sawyer would be about 40 since he wrote his letter in 1976. And like people have mentioned, Jack does not know about the Boston Red Sox winning the series.

[ponderingthings]

Ok I'm confused about something. If the plane crashed in September 2004, and the Red Sox won the World Series in October 2004 how is Jack supposed to know that?

[SpidermanHouston]

Ok I'm confused about something. If the plane crashed in September 2004, and the Red Sox won the World Series in October 2004 how is Jack supposed to know that?
That's the point. Jack doesn't know because it takes place before the world series and not 2009. If it takes place in 2009, jack would know.

[ponderingthings]

Ahhhh thank you for clearing that up!

[cajdb]

They discussed this over in the Everything Old is New Again forum in this thread... I linked to it

here (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm60.showNex tMessage?topicID=92.topic)

so you can check out what was said.

I tend to agree that the 09SEP could *both* be referring to September since September is the 9th month. Even if baggage tags don't usually list it that way, they could have done it because they specifically *don't* want to give away the date... just to keep us guessing :)

I've never seen the "poster" that was in Michael's room, so I can't comment on it, but I do know that in White Rabbit, Jack's father had prescription bottles on his table in the hotel and those were dated. I'm pretty sure that was when we first started thinking this was happening in present time.

[equinox]

Thank you for those screen caps.

What I read is:

-------------------------------------------

In re:
Young male, Walt
A minor

Petition for voluntary relinquishment of all parental rights

To the honorable, the judges of said court:

The petition of Susan Lloyd, unmarried, respectfully represents that:

1. Petitioner resides at 5463 Arlington, New York City, New York County, New york, and is 30 years of age, having been born on January 23, 1967.

2. Petitioner is the mother of young male Walt, the (...), who was born at General Hospital, 3rd and Main Boulevard, New York, New York, on August 24, 1964, and who is (...). A copy of the birth certificate of the said (...) is (...), made a part hereof, and marked (...).

3. (...)

4. (...)

---------------------------------------------------

My conclusions are that the petition was written in 1997 and that 1964 is a typo where it should read 1994, knowing that Walt's birthday is August 24. (Yes, strange place for a typo.)

[lostincyberspace]

I will agree with you on Susan being 30 y/o after reviewing it some more, making this written in 1997 which also goes along with the WTC towers being in the window, but the address is 5403 Arlington. I don't know how they could have made the typo with Walt's birth year? When was Walts B-day stated to be Aug, 24??....(why couldn't they make it 8/23...ie numbers!)

Petition-best resolution capture (http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3214/petition7tb.jpg)

Susan/Mike/lawyers flashback captures..all different times (http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4909/susanmike4il.jpg)

[equinox]

lostincyberspace wrote:
but the address is 5403 Arlington
Right. Damn 0s and 6s.

I don't know how they could have made the typo with Walt's birth year?
Weird, isn't it? The show's writers are playing the game rough with us.

When was Walts B-day stated to be Aug, 24?
HotRS, about halfway through, M and W on beach.

[Kazzyg1]

This is all far to complicated!!!

[salem2005]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone...I'm still hoping someone can re-watch the "Special" episode and see if they can find this 'mystery' Occupational Therapy 2000 Poster on the wall.

And yes, as someone mentioned, the oceanicflight815.com site does put up abandoned script pages...but at least they make a note of saying that the script was abandoned, it's usually titled with something that tells us that is was a script page that was not used for the show. But, the flight baggage ticket comes up as it's own separate image, just like Hurley's lotto ticket and some other items. But, as noted, it could very well just be a ploy by the writers to confuse us more.

It just seems like they keep "dating" things on the show...and I keep thinking it's a trail of clues that we are supposed to put together. The insertion of the World Trade Center towers in the last episode is the perfect example of them "dating" things.

Oh, and as far as date formats and standards, just so you know what the agreed upon International Standards are:

"The international format defined by ISO (IS0 8601) tries to address all these problems by defining a numerical date system as follows: YYYY-MM-DD where
YYYY is the year [all the digits, i.e. 2012]
MM is the month [01 (January) to 12 (December)]
DD is the day [01 to 31]
For example, "3rd of April 2002", in this international format is written: 2002-04-03."

Which means, that the 09 (although according to this is should be 2009) would in fact represent the year 2009 - not September, and not a specific day. When I worked for the Department of Defense, we always had to date everything using the Year first.

Thanks again everyone!

[DohBoy]

^ You may continue to believe that this show, or any part of this show, all takes place in 2009 for as long as you like.

[equinox]

salem2005 wrote:
The international format (...) YYYY is the year
(...)
that the 09 (although according to this is should be 2009)
You have just demonstrated that it is not the international format.

[salem2005]

You have just demonstrated that it is not the international format.

Yes, austrasiel, it is not in the 4-digit year international format, rather 2-digits, and as you quoted, I did point that out. But, it still more than likely reflects a 'year' not a 'day' or 'month' as some people have suggested. That's all I was saying....

[cajdb]

I did some poking around trying to find a high-res pic of Christian's (Jack's dad) pill bottles with the date on them...

If you go to sledgeweb's Lost site, under investigations, there is a nice pic posted...

Go here (http://lost.cubit.net/investigations.php?PHPSESSID=baf0f1d3b5c55d04c241a 7d3308d6496) and the seventh entry down is titled Date Reference on Christian's Prescription Bottles... click there and you can see the pic.

Looks like the date is 2004 to me. These are in Christian's hotel room in Australia, so it seems likely he would have only brought his current medicine, not 5 year old bottles.

Given a choice between an image from the show and an image on a website somehow affliated with the show, I'd lean toward the proof we know has been on screen.

Granted, this could be just a prop goof, but... This, along with the fact that the whole Sox never win the world series joke just wouldn't make any sense in 2009 and that people seem to appear close to the age that they would be if the flight was in 2004 leads me to believe the idea that this is happening in the present time... or, at least the flight left Sydney in 2004... there's no saying *when* they are now :)

And, if you haven't checked out sledgeweb's site... it is quite awesome...

Edited to add... but this is just what I believe. I could be wrong.

[salem2005]

And, if you haven't checked out sledgeweb's site... it is quite awesome...

I have visited sledge's site and it is amazing...I sent him my question about the 2009 thing too.

And, thank you for your comments...the whole time issue is confusing and anyone could be right about it...I'm usually wrong about these things, so I'm probably way off base and putting too much into the baggage tag picture...but, my personal belief is that somewhere along the way, time / existence / is going to play a part in this show.

[mariodiclerico]

I don't think its 2009, but when did the red sox joke air? About six episodes were broadcast last year before the Red Sox in fact won the World Series last november. And more than that were already in the can....

It could be a victim of chronology.

[DohBoy]

^ The plane crashed in September of 2004. Thus, Christian and Jack were making comments about the Sox in September. The Sox weren't a shoe-in for the Series until about a month later. The Sox won in October ... and neither poor Christian nor poor Jack have gotten a chance to enjoy it.

[mariodiclerico]

I think you missed my point.


The Red Sox joke does not necessarily preclude the possibility of the entire show taking place in 2009. (Not that I subscribe to this theory.)


Its possible that the joke aired before the Red Sox, in real life, won the World Series, and was merely character background which turned out to become false. But when it was written, it was expected to be a true statement.

The only comparison I can make is that there's an old episode of the Simpsons which ends with a James Bond-villain buying Homer the Denver Broncos. And Homer remarks along the lines that the Broncos suck. A couple years after this episode aired, the Broncos won back-to-back super bowls, rendering the joke rather lame unless you realize the chronology.

Ie: It could still be 2009, the Red Sox joke could've aired b/f the Red Sox won the world series, and when it did, no one expected they would win the world series before 2009.

[SpidermanHouston]

the Red Sox jokes were in 2005. Months after the Sox won the series in real life. I believe the writers put them in there as a joke because the audience know the Sox won the series and to let us know it takes place before October,2004.

[TiVoHASbigNEWS]

just for future reference and nothing really about these dates but in the states you would use this format mm/dd/year

In australia you would use this format dd/mm/year

[salem2005]

I am raising this issue again, since the new Damon Lindelof interview has been posted on this site...I only bring this up again because everyone was throwing dates at me that they got off things that made them believe the plane crash happened in 2004...this interview puts the spotlight back on this issue and makes me think again about the 'Jack Shephard 2009 Luggage Tag" photo from the oceanicflight815 website...here is his quote from the interview:

"It's important to note," Lindelof says, "that we've never said when the plane crashed. I think the assumption is that it happened in 2004 when the show premiered, but we've never said that. Everything [on the show] is measured in terms of PC and AC, pre-crash and after-crash. No [character] ever refers to elections or events in history that would date exactly where we are in time."

[ryesvikrd]

Salem, you got it!!
The producers have said that they never said the flight took of in 2004.

[Clementine Kruczynski]

My understanding was that the episode was filmed before the sox won, but the writers left it in anyway.

ETA: I went through "Special" and I didn't see any poster.

[cajdb]

salem2005

I actually thought of this thread when I read that in TV Guide.

I don't know what to make of his comment. They have never *said* what year the crash was in, and they never *said* it was after 9/11, but the treatment of Sayid in the airport made me think it was after 9/11... And they definately do reference one of the Iraqui wars so his statement that no one mentions "events in history that would date exactly where we are in time" is somewhat misleading...

Now I'm having Clinton flashbacks... "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement...."

I think Damon has been taking lingual lessons from Bill :)

[scpp1304]

It is my belief that pushing the button repeatedly is what kept the Sox from winning the series in the first place. Obviously someone neglected their shift, did not enter the code, and hence something terrible happened...Sox won!

I still think the crash occured in 2004. I am still going on my theory that everything is linked....and I will use the oceanic air website as my time reference. President states that they are out of business after 25 years...2004-25 = 1979...puts us around the probable year of the incident on the island.

Perhaps the airline was created to fulfill part of the island's needs/programming by bringing all these people together on thr island at this specific time. I do not know of an airliine that immediately folds due to a single "tragedy". Oceanic filled its' purpose and was no longer needed.

[kilian30]

That was my post origionally. I thought I saw a calander on the wall of the hospital that said 2000 and someone else I know saw it too. Walt was 2 at the time which would put the crash in 2008 or 2009. But I could have been wrong. And NO ONE else seems to have any clue of what I was talking about. I tried to watch the episode again when it came on again but of course I missed it. I'm waiting to borrow a friends DVD so I can get a good look.

I had kind of given up on it because of a) the whole Red Sox WS thing (as a matter of fact I believe this to be a major clue about having faith and hope), b) all the other timeline stuff seems to put the crash in 2004 c) I thought I heard somewhere that the producers SAID the crash happened in 2004 d) and the fact that of all the crazy (and I mean that in the best way possible) people on this website who seem to go over every single episode with a fine toothed comb and no one seems to know what I'm talking about.

The ticket thing that came up recently lends a little credence to my all but defunct theory. I mean why would it say 09 in reference to the month AND say Sep?

But over all, this was origionally my theory and even I think it's crap now. But I could be wrong, or right.....whatever.

[kilian30]

the Red Sox jokes were in 2005. Months after the Sox won the series in real life. I believe the writers put them in there as a joke because the audience know the Sox won the series and to let us know it takes place before October,2004.

This was definitely written into the script AFTER the World Series for a reason. It may be a hint as to the year, but also I think it's a clue about having hope, i.e. some people are destined to suffer forever and Red Sox fans are used as an example, but as it turns out Red Sox fans were NOT destined to suffer forever. More than just a timeline clue there.

p.s. Jessica Alba rocks

"It's important to note," Lindelof says, "that we've never said when the plane crashed. I think the assumption is that it happened in 2004 when the show premiered, but we've never said that. Everything [on the show] is measured in terms of PC and AC, pre-crash and after-crash. No [character] ever refers to elections or events in history that would date exactly where we are in time."

Very very interesting, I thought the opposite was true. I thought they had said that the crash was in 2004.

My conclusion: They're messing with us.

[dbrasco444]

A couple things on this post:

1. This is a fictional story.........the red sox may have not won the world series at all! The Red Sox also have nothing to do with the plot other than in relating to sawyer knowing jack's dad

2.They would not put 09 for the month when Sep is already there

3. I like the fact that this may be in the future or the past...... the whole wrinkle in time reference

[lost416]

"...No [character] ever refers to elections or events in history that would date exactly where we are in time."

Are you kidding me? The Red Sox won the series in Oct. 2005 and both Jack and Christian make the statement "That's why the Red Sox will never win the series." How is that not a character making a reference to an event in history that would date where they are in time? Clearly, Christian stated it at the bar in Australia before Oct. 2005. And then in Exodus I, Saweyer says, "Jack. About a week before we all got on the plane I got to talking to this man in a bar in Sydney. He was American, too. A doctor. I've been on some benders in my time, but this guy - he was going for an all time record. It turns out this guy has a son - his son's a doctor, too. They had some kind of big time falling out. The guy knew it was his fault even though his son was back in the States thinking the same damn thing. See, kids are like dogs, you knock them around enough they'll think they did something to deserve it. Anyway, there's a pay phone in this bar. And this guy, Christian, tells me he wishes he had the stones to pick up the phone, call his kid, tell him he's sorry, that he's a better doctor than he'll ever be - he's proud, and he loves him. I had to take off, but something tells me he never got around to making that call. Small world, huh?"

If that's not dating it to before the Red Sox won the Series I don't know what is. It's clear they are either trying a misdirect or are just choosing to forget actual past episodes because they found a new direction to go. Personally, I think they're just trying to direct people's attention in another direction.

[dbrasco444]

ITS FICTION THE REDSOX NEVER WON THE SERIES

[Lost2009]

Hello all, first post.

I just started watching Lost last week (I know, where have I been). Anyway, I’m hooked, and I am now watching the whole first season on DVD (I just finished ep 4). So, I don’t have answers to a lot of the questions raised here, but I found a BIG clue supporting the 2009 crash theory. I haven’t read this anywhere, but if it has been discussed, go easy on me. Otherwise, please give me credit.

Kilian30, kudos for not giving up on your theory, or did you?

Look at the oceanic-air home page. There is a place to enter a ‘Leave’ date, and a ‘Return’ date. The date is pre-filled with Sep 22. (Jack’s flight tag had ‘21’ indicating Sep 21st, but I assume the date on the website is just the day after the plane crash). Now, here’s the clue. Right next to the date boxes is a calendar. There is a day of the week highlighted. Assuming the calendar has Sunday as the first column, then the day highlighted is a Tuesday. Now look through Windows calendar (or whatever calendar you want) and see what years have Sep. 22 falling on a Tuesday. I came up with following:

1981
1987
1992
1998
2009
2015
2020
2026
etc.

Notice, no 2004, but there is a 2009.

Now I have run with this, and I have a whole lot of theories after assuming 2009, but I feel like I’ve stuck my neck out really far, so I’ll leave it at that.

[joncarr]

Are you kidding me? The Red Sox won the series in Oct. 2005 and both Jack and Christian make the statement "That's why the Red Sox will never win the series." How is that not a character making a reference to an event in history that would date where they are in time?

I have to agree (but it was 2004, not 2005, October 27, 2004 to be exact).

Doesn't Jack mention sometime last season that his family was from Boston, or he wen't to Harvard Med. School? There is some New England connection.

In any case, if the crash was in late Sep 2004, all Jack could have known is that the Sox had clinced the wild card. Having lived through Aaron F. Boone's home run in Game 7 of the 2003 ALCS, he had no reason to expect that the 2004 playoffs would be any different.

In fact, since it's only been 40 or so days since the crash, i suppose there could be a possibility that Jack was quoting his father to Sawyer at the very instant Keith Folke underhanded that ball to Doug Mientkiewicz. ;)

[*Saint*]

Perhaps the airline was created to fulfill part of the island's needs/programming by bringing all these people together on thr island at this specific time. I do not know of an airliine that immediately folds due to a single "tragedy". Oceanic filled its' purpose and was no longer needed.

Really good point. Even after 9/11, the airline's affected went through fiscal problems, but never folded due to the tragedies that occured on that day.

[Bekka]

Wow. I am so psyched that nobody has said this (that's tough to find here--hehe):

Did anyone consider the fact that the Sox "joke" is one they used from years ago, and that after the Sox won they CONTINUED to use the saying, only now it's tongue-in-cheek??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! As soon as I realized this, I jumped onto the 2009 wagon, and hope to someday be able to say "I told you so." hehe

[CristianLouvier]

omg I just read this thread and now have a horrible migraine!

When I first heard Jack make the Red Sox reference, I immediately assumed the crash was in present time and he didn't know the Sox won. Because they made a point of using this phrase twice, meanwhile using it to connect Sawyer and Christian, I seriously beleive that the crash was in present time. Everything that has been mentioned here, Christian's medicine bottles, Kate's canned food dates, the legal papers - present time indicators.

Someone needs to make a a pro/con list as to current time vs. 2009. Or else grab a bottle of aspirin and read on :)

[lost416]

No need for THE ANNOYING GIANT CAPS! If you have a point, then feel free to make it -- there's no need to be derogatory. As for the logic of it's fiction so the Red Sox never won the series, I'm not buying it. By your line of reasoning the song Desmond plays on the stereo doesn't have to be Mama Cass nor does it have to have been recorded when it was -- for all we know Mama Cass doesn't exist in this world and therefore that song could be from 2045. For that matter, the washer and dryer could be from 1492 being as Lost's fictional world was very technologically advanced centuries ago. The Red Sox winning the Series was the biggest sports story of 2004 and happened well before Outlaws (Feb. 16) and Exodus I (May 18) were shot and/or released. The writers are not hacks and would not be oblivious to such a major timeline point. They could have easily used a fictional team or a different team (ie Cubs) to avoid confusion.

[kilian30]

This is a fictional story.........the red sox may have not won the world series at all! The Red Sox also have nothing to do with the plot other than in relating to sawyer knowing jack's dad

I realize this is fiction. But it still has to relate to the real world. So what there going to just end the show and say "Ha, this is an alternate universe where the Red Sox have never won the World Series." That would be the worst thing to happen on TV ever and I would personally hunt down and kill every single writer on this show for sucking my in and then trying to pawn that crap off on me. The Red Sox won the WS long before this episode was filmed. What they say is in there for a reason.

Notice, no 2004, but there is a 2009.

Now I have run with this, and I have a whole lot of theories after assuming 2009, but I feel like I’ve stuck my neck out really far, so I’ll leave it at that.


That's crazy. I still think they're just screwing with us though.

Did anyone consider the fact that the Sox "joke" is one they used from years ago, and that after the Sox won they CONTINUED to use the saying, only now it's tongue-in-cheek??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! As soon as I realized this, I jumped onto the 2009 wagon, and hope to someday be able to say "I told you so." hehe

That could be the case. It doesn't really fit the context though I don't think. Maybe it does.

Do we know that sawyer met Jacks dad in the bar right before he flew on the plane? Could it have been 5 years before? Although Jack went to Austrailia to find his dad, I can't imagine he'd wait 5 years to do it.

[Sledgeweb]

Guys, guys, guys...

Here's how we know the crash was in 2004 based on evidence presented within the show:

Here you go boys and girls.

Boone was born in 1981: lost.cubit.net/pics/booneLicense.jpg (http://lost.cubit.net/pics/booneLicense.jpg)

At the time of the crash, Shannon is 20.

Boone's mother married Shannon's father when Boone was 10, and Shannon was 8. So Boone is about 2 years older than Shannon. Meaning... Boone is about 22 at the time of the crash.

1981 + 22 = 2003.

Now, it's possible that Boone is 23, and Shannon is 20 (Maybe she is like 2 and 1/2 years younger, so until her birthday, they would be 3 years apart, and after her birthday 2 years apart).

1981 + 23 = 2004

For the same logic reasons, it's also possible Boone is 21.

1981 + 21 = 2002.

So, that would rule out any of this 2005+ stuff. Other references in the show place the date in 2004. There is a prescription bottle with 2004 on it (lost.cubit.net/pics/lostPills.jpg), (http://lost.cubit.net/pics/lostPills.jpg),) and other such items that wouldn't have a 2004 date if it were 2002 or 2003.

[lost416]

Excellent points! All of those things are part of fiction as well so no need to even yammer on further about whether the Red Sox really won the series or not. It still begs the question of why Lindeloff stated in an interview that they never said when the crash took place. There is ample script info to get us to a late 2004 crash date.

[salem2005]

It still begs the question of why Lindeloff stated in an interview that they never said when the crash took place.

And he didn't just "say" this...he said: "I think it's important to note..." Why is he telling us that it is important to 'note' that they never said the crash took place in 2004? And he goes on to say that we are "assuming" it took place in '04 because that is when the showed first aired. So, his "important note" comment and his pointing fingers as us saying we are making "assumptions"; at least gives me pause to stop and wonder why he felt it necessary to say all this?

I understand that all the dates people have pointed out seem to indicate a 2004 crash...other than the baggage tag that was on the oceanicflight815 site that is dated 2009 (which many say is fake just to throw us off)...there is nothing else out there to dispute the '04 crash date...but I just thought I'd bring it back up again since Lindelof just gave this new interview. That's all.

[Sledgeweb]

Yeah, I think they've clearly set the show in 2004. I just hope that don't forget that and try to change the date. Though, if the show ever gets to where it starts to deal with the reality of time itself... there could be all kinds of problems.

He also never says that it is an incorrect assumption that the crash is in 2004.

But, realistically, I think it could be pretty easy for them to forget some of the minor details in the show that fans have picked up on. I can really see them moving the date to 2007, and then being like "OH! I forgot we showed 1981 on Boone's license! THAT WAS THE BOONE CLONE!!!"

[Jaffa420]

It still begs the question of why Lindeloff stated in an interview that they never said when the crash took place.

Nothing posted here so far conflicts with what he said. In case you missed it he said:


"No [character] ever refers to elections or events in history that would date exactly where we are in time."

So since we don't have an exact date and although it's misleading his statement holds true.

BTW as a Cards fan I refuse to believe there even WAS a world series in 04' let alone the Red Sox winning it.

[salem2005]

He also never says that it is an incorrect assumption that the crash is in 2004.

Yep, I realize that....they are probbably just leaving the question 'open' out there so if they did decide to deal with time / alternate realities on the show, they have left themselves an out by saying this. Who knows! It's all part of the game I guess...but it's a game I love to play right now!

By the way, your site is awesome! You put so much work into it...it's great! Congrats on doing a great job with it!

[*Saint*]

Exactly. The bogus scripts on oceanic-815.com are just that: bogus scripts. Who's to say this baggage ticket isn't bogus as well??

[cajdb]

So since we don't have an exact date and although it's misleading his statement holds true.


This was exactly what I was trying to say, but I think you said it more succintly...

His statement is technically true... but is easily misunderstood.

Did anyone consider the fact that the Sox "joke" is one they used from years ago, and that after the Sox won they CONTINUED to use the saying, only now it's tongue-in-cheek??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I did consider that this could be an inside joke, but if it is an inside joke then I would expect Sawyer to say... why you say that, buddy, the Sox did win because he *isn't* in on the joke. Now, Sawyer could live under a rock and just not know that they did win, but that would be a poor writing choice... to set up an inside joke but not provide the viewer with a way to verify it was, in fact, an inside joke.

Same reason I don't buy the "its fiction the Red Sox didn't win in this reality." The writers haven't, yet, given us any reason to believe that this is true. In order to establish an alternate reality they would have to give us something concrete that places us there... this "clue" is too ambiguous to establish an alternate reality... the simpler solution is that the plane crashed before they won. If they really wanted to establish an alternate reality they should have said something like "That's why the Steelers will never win the Superbowl." Since the Steelers have won the superbowl, this would clearly indicate we are in another world.

What I am not sure about is *why* Damon went out of his way to make this statement. Is he just trying to fuel the fire of speculation, or are they changing directions mid-stream? I'm with sledge... I hope they aren't going to ignore all the clues they've already given us.

[mobster75]

I'm a newcomer here, so I'm sorry if anyone's mentioned this so far. But with some folks up in a tizzy about the image of Jack's luggage tag showing "09SEP21" saying its 2009, I want to offer this:

Every luggage tag I've received in the past few years when I've flown is in the format "DDMONYY", a trip to Paris earlier this year says "26JAN05"...

So going on the premise, the tag was printed on 9/9/2021. I would imagine that by 2021, airlines wouldn't be using bar codes to tag luggage.. Most likely its just FUD tossed out there to confuse...

Although, the luggage tag number is "4815162342"... when you add up 09/09/2021, you get 23. So maybe thats why that date was chosen?

[salem2005]

Mobster75,

It still could possibly indicate the '09 year, because some international flights follow ISO Standards listing the year first. As I mentioned in an earlier post here:

"The international format defined by ISO (IS0 8601) tries to address all these problems by defining a numerical date system as follows: YYYY-MM-DD where
YYYY is the year [all the digits, i.e. 2012]
MM is the month [01 (January) to 12 (December)]
DD is the day [01 to 31]
For example, "3rd of April 2002", in this international format is written: 2002-04-03."

And yes, I realize that the year shown above is 4 digits not 2, but it was just something I found that I thought might help us as we were trying to figure this out.

And I understand, that most people support the theory that the plane crashed in 2004...and could very well be right...I just ressurected this thread after Lindelof's latest comments.

[the Chameleon]

The reason I ask, is because we could have a real timeline-reference going here...on the oceanicflight815. com site, they show Jack's flight baggage tag, and it appears to to be dated "09Sep21" - which would indicate that the plane was flying and crashed on Sep 21, 2009.

The Oceanic site is an extension of the show and filled with clues.
Nonetheless, I would like to point out the date (9-21-09) conflicts with the timeline presented in the Wrinkle in Time thread in the T&S section.
The Wrinkle in Time thread is very well thought out and makes every effort to adhere to the most probable timeline in our reality. That is, the reality that existed before the crash.
According to Wrinkle in Time, Flight 815 crashed last year on the autumn equinox.
The autumn equinox was September 23rd in the year 2004.
Also, for what it's worth, the above date includes the number 23.......