Why did the "monster" kill the pilot and not Locke

[Sarahs Monkey]

As we all know, in the pilot episode the pilot suffered a bloody death at the hands of the "monster". However, later in the season, Loocke came face to face with it and came away saying it was "beautiful." Is the "monster" handing out judgements? Did he allow Locke to live because he has a good soul?

Also of note, I don't believe the "monster" was chasing Locke. Why chase him and not kill him (unless it had something to say)? So then, who has the "monster" chased and does that mean that then mean those characters, or one of those characters, is a "bad" character?

[Spirit Shards]

I don't know... but my parents and I have this crazy theory that Locke might have made some sort of "deal" with the monster. That's why he got the dead boar and it didn't kill him, and that might also explain why he wouldn't tell anyone that he saw the monster.
But we're crazy, so, there you go.

[arJie]

well i think that locke didn't end up with the same fate as the pilot is that maybe, there are different animals in that island and at the place where he was by himself, the 'monster' wasn't there.

well, my friend and i have this theory and we think that 16 yrs ago the island was used for genetical expirements with animals...u know like similar to Jurrasic Park...

...but yeah...can't wait to find out...

:) arJie

[Frillidan]

Sorry for kinda double posting, but I guess my idea fits better in this discussion. Here's what I said a couple days ago on the Polar Bear site, and sorry if the repetition makes people mad!

Over there, some people think that the polar bear might be left over from a plane crash transporting zoo animals.

So...if the French plane that crashed 16 years ago crashed with a cargo of exotic animals that somehow survived, it would explain the many faces of the "monster." The one that ate the pilot is therefore probably different than the one that Locke saw, which evidently left him alone. The rustling trees could be monkeys, or something, and not an enormous (or invisible) thing moving around.

But along those lines, if Locke saw whatever it was clearly--if it was a zoo animal, one supposes it would be recognizable--why wouldn't he just go tell the others it was just a giraffe, or something, so they shouldn't be worried? It was looking down on him from high up, hence the giraffe thing... UNLESS, maybe it was up a tree, and hidden, so he might not have been able to see it clearly, hence the "magical" or supernatural quality he seems to get from whatever it was.

The boars could either be zoo leftovers, too, or else the original inhabitants of the island, like a Lord of the Flies type thing.

Maybe. **shrug** ;)

[AndThePickles]

I think it was two different animals or things that ate the pilot, and stumbled across Locke. But the theory that Frillidan brought up about the zoo animals is interesting. I never thought about that. I was always thinking along the lines of some huge scary monster mutant thing lurking around the island :lol

[SayidsGirl]

As we all know, in the pilot episode the pilot suffered a bloody death at the hands of the "monster".
I wonder--do we really know this? All we know for sure is that Jack, Kate and Charlie spoke with a pilot in the cockpit, he was then whooshed away, and they later saw a bloody body in a tree. I have a slightly different idea about that pilot. (I need to add here that my premises are based on the fact that I don't believe that anyone could have survived that crash at all, let alone as uninjured as they appear to be, and that therefore something else is going on: I'm currently leaning toward one of the more outlandish theories, like they're dead, or in another dimension, or in a virtual reality environment.)

I think we've seen certain things on the island that are not quite "real." The polar bear is one, and so is Jack's dead father. I think the pilot in the cockpit is another. Here's what I think could have happened. The plane crashed, and the pilot was thrown from the wreckage, bloody and quite dead, and his body landed in the tree. When our three survivors entered the cockpit, they spoke with the "unreal" pilot, who served his purpose by telling them that they were off course and that no one would be looking for them in the right place. Then, his purpose having been served, he was whooshed away. (By what? I've no clue.) Kate, Jack and Charlie then see the bloody body in the tree and assume the pilot has been killed by the "monster."

I think what started me thinking about this was the way the pilot seemed to just spring to life so suddenly when the three survivors entered the cockpit. It was all just too convenient somehow.

I have no idea what the nature of the polar bear, Jack's father, or the pilot is. Hallucinations? Ghosts? Virtual reality? Automatons?

This is my first post, so please be gentle with me if I'm repeating something already said on the board. I've read a lot of posts here, but my no means all of them--there are so many!

[azteclady]

Welcome, SayidsGirl!

I hope we are not all that scary - we are not going to chop your head off. Well, drypelia might if you try to take her chocolate... And do not go near OneFoolOfATook's tree (she's got this knife...). And there are a couple of people with claims on Jack and Sawyer....

But we are for the most part a harmless bunch.

You mention "leaning toward one of the more outlandish theories, like they're dead, or in another dimension, or in a virtual reality environment." You may want to know that the producers have stated unequivocally that they are not dead, that they are in an island, that space and time don't bend, and that the show is based on science.

Don't let that stop you, though - keep reading and posting. Enjoy!


Beto

[JacksGirlfriend]

SG: Although things appear to be happening that couldn't possibly be real, I think they are. For example: I think the living pilot was hauled from the cockpit by something strong and determined and deposited in that tree. I don't think it was an illusion. It was "real".

Although the producers have stated that everything will be grounded in reality my take on this is rather liberal. Sure, the characters are real with the same basic emotions we all have, their actions are reflections of real behavior and their environment and the dangers they face are real. But from my perspective, although they've also stated everything will be explained from a science or pseudo science perspective, I translate this loosely as well.

I see no problem throwing in alternative dimensions, aliens, possible psychic phenomenon, time warps, space distortions or anything else you'd like to throw my way. I'll listen to all of it (and though I've discounted some, that's just my opinion). In fiction, everything and anything is possible. Time and space may not bend, but time can be altered elsewhere and space can open a world of possibilities. No bending required.

JacksGirl

[Dmcquickly]

"You may want to know that the producers have stated unequivocally that they are not dead, that they are in an island, that space and time don't bend, and that the show is based on science."

Hmmm...Too many threads to keep track of. I don't remember hearing that the producers said that space and time don't bend. Where is that from--which interview? Can I get a link to it?

Because in fact space and time do bend--according to the theories of relativity.

I'm way with Sayidsgirl on her beliefs about the backstory of this show. Since the first episode the fact that none of the survivors had been very seriously injured in the plane crash has unsettled my mind, and Sayidsgirl, I've posted the same thing. Join the "Hotel California" camp! lol (That thought, bandied about with Jacksgirlfriend for a week or so, appears in a thread by that name.)

I know some of the more scientific minds in the Lostaway group have incredibly insightful brains. They go with traditional science as ways to comprehend the show. Nothing at all wrong with that--we don't yet know, and may not know for a few seasons what's really going on (although it looks like we'll get more teases next week!). So their explanations are as reasonable as any.

But the producers said the show is based on science or pseudo-science (which one might read as science that has yet to pass the b.s. test).

Now...going here on the belief that space/time warpage is still in play...

Scientists have long accepted the warping of space/time as fact. The whole "string theory" push going on now in many research labs works with warping as one component of the unified theory they seek. Very few scientists look at the warping of space/time as theoretically impossible. So it wouldn't fall into the "science fiction" realm. Only by taking this theory and extending it beyond its ability to explain would you get into the science fiction realm.

So. One can see that the producers and writers of LOST might have taken this theory and pushed it to some extent--a practical, "real-life" assumption of what the warping of the space/time continuum might look like.

The health of the survivors in a plane wreck that clearly killed many people; the relatively intact pieces of the fuselage we've seen; and the odd fact of the coma, sudden awakening, and just as sudden disappearance of the pilot, leaving him alive just long enough to convey the critical information the survivors needed to know to understand their predicament...either that writing is waaaayyyyy too facile, or it's an element of that mysterious back-story.

I choose to believe the latter, and Sayidsgirl, I'm in camp with you on what that backstory might be.

[SelfProjectRealized]

Well... my take on this is that the form that the "monster" takes on is based on the feelings and needs of the people on the island. Yeah, I know, this sounds more like magic than science, but it could fall under the "pseudo-science" category. It's not exactly a brand new idea that our minds can have a causal effect on the world (see, for example, quantum physics).

So, anyway, it was scary at the beginning because everyone was scared. It sounded familiar to Rose because it's coming from their own thoughts/experiences.

Then, it killed the pilot because, well... because he delivered them bad news and this whole situation is essentially his fault. So the killing could have been a reaction to Charlie, Kate and Jack's fear/anger.

It didn't kill Locke, though, because Locke isn't scared of it. Locke loves the island and the whole situation because he's been given his legs back and he has the chance to do all the things he's always wanted to and be the way he wants to be. So, to him, it's not monstrous, it's beautiful.

[JacksGirlfriend]

DMC: First, nice to see you back.

Time and space bending - it was brought up by Max (with a slight bit of disgust I think) in his "Another plus for the Bermuda Triangle Angle" (I think that's the name). There's an "argument" you have to wade through to find it, but if you haven't read it, you should. Not that I believe everything because I'll just decide what it means for myself and you probably will too.

JacksGirl

[SayidsGirl]

Thanks for the welcome. :)

I've read about the producers saying that the explanation is scientific in nature and that the characters aren't dead, but at the moment I'm keeping a healthy skepticism toward everything I read about this series, including the statements of the producers. I think they might be having a little fun with us. At any rate, one of the many things I love about the series is that it reminds me to question everything; to pay close attention to detail, and to assume absolutely nothing.

I'm having a blast with all the theories, scientific and otherwise--haven't had so much fun with a TV series in years. I'll definitely be heading over to the Hotel California thread.

[AilaAolani]

Occam's Razor...

The "monster" is not a carnevore. He didn't EAT the pilot he just killed him. Maybe the transceiver was making a high pitched noise that drove it to a frenzy (and if we're really paying attention the dog whistle reminds us of this possibility - the dog reacts to the noise the humans can't hear) Locke posed no threat and therefore was left alone. It might also have killed the boar because the boar was threatening it and then left the carcass uneaten (being a veggetarian) for Locke to drag home.

[bigmouth]

AilaAolani: really, really perceptive point re the transceiver and the creature. I think it's also possible the creature was startled by the pilot popping out of the cockpit - that it killed reflexively. Bottom line: there is a persistent - and unwarranted - assumption that the monster is hostile, evil, dangerous, etc.

I actually believe it's quite benign - that it may, in fact, be as threatened by the survivors as they are by it. All except Locke, who seems to grasp that the creature isn't an inherent threat. I really wonder if the creature didn't give him the boar as a peace offering.

[drabauer]

I'm with Aili and awsecond on this one. There is definitely a narrative reason that the pilot died immediately after imparting crucial information, but that may not be why he was killed. He was sucked out of the plane tip, and the whole thing wobbled; i.e. maybe the fuselage was the irritant, not one lowly human. Locke is a lowly human, chasing a lowly boar, so why bother with him? No one else has been singled out either.

That said, I also think there may be something to the theory that strong emotions play a part--the strong emotions of those on the plane against their will, emotions of fear vs. love and acceptance (Locke). Of course this puts us back in Forbidden Planet territory: monsters from the ID! Still, I would favor any explanation that draws from classic lit (the Tempest) rather than pulp/recent tv (they are all in Purgatory, they are part of an alien experiment, etc)

[cccourt]

I am reposting this from the McGuffin thread. Apologies for double post...but my idea of who/what/why creature is and why the pilot and not locke.

In Too Deep
ezSupporter
Posts: 233
Posted: 10/24/04 12:11 pm
MacGuffin
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would love to say I have heard of this specific theory, but I can't.

The ploy?? Yes...basis of all good story writing.

Now then: A number of weeks ago quite a few of us went out on a limb and gave our predictions for the future...think it was called "place your bets, predict the future." None the less, one of my first ones is we will never see the "creature." I did NOT go into why...but basically it was because of the Macguffin theory. The creature is not important: the path it takes us is.

As to the reality of what happened to the pilot? After Locke says it what he sees is "beautiful", I thought well, we are on a desert island, the pilot is obviously in bad shape...who says we have to be "taken" to death in a halo of white light, and in a somber kind of way. Who says our souls can't be ripped from us in a way we would view as violent. We all know that in death, the body is left and the spirit is transported. The pilot was near death...and he was "taken." It is our perceptions which color what death is. We don't really have any real world accounts or images as to what happens at death. (beyond the mythical white tunnel)
ccc

[JacksGirlfriend]

cc: That entire pilot's death theory sounds so esoteric for you... What other things do you have in that head of yours?

JacksGirl

[Sarahs Monkey]

I'm with Aili and awsecond on this one. There is definitely a narrative reason that the pilot died immediately after imparting crucial information, but that may not be why he was killed. He was sucked out of the plane tip, and the whole thing wobbled; i.e. maybe the fuselage was the irritant, not one lowly human. Locke is a lowly human, chasing a lowly boar, so why bother with him? No one else has been singled out either.

I agree with your assement and Ali's, but that still leaves one question. Why would the "monster" chase different cast members at different times if it didn't intend to harm ( possibly devour) or kill them? Perhaps it wasn't chasing them at all?

[ColLocke]

Check out my theory, under the title "Why I Think the Monster Didn't Kill Locke", or summat like that. I don't really feel like rewriting it here;)

[AilaAolani]

What if its territorial?

OK roundabout story here, but once upon a time myself and three friends were standing on the bank of a river. The Tanzanian military guy started screaming at us to RUN a hippo was coming at us from underwater and was about to kill us. We ran about 3 feet from the bank and the hippo turned around and went back across the river withut ever showing enough of itself that we saw it w/o the help of the guide (we were all of 4 feet from this thing at one point) as soon as we were out of her territory she no longer cared about us.

What if thats what the mnoster is doing? Stay out of its territory and it'll leave you alone? Except for the irritating noise perhaps.

[Baron X]

Nice, but a creature big enough to bend trees would have a fairly large territory. It was chasing Jack, he said it was right behind him, so where did it go when Kate and Charlie went back into its territory to look for Jack?

People, people Locke did not say he looked into the eye of the beast.

I think Locke did not get eaten because it was either not the same "beast" or because he was not moving vs. the pilot who was moving at eye level. Could just be a vision thing.

[MangaKhan]

As I said in the drowning girl thread. Locke is supposed to be on the Island. The pilot, the drowned scuba diver, and all the rest who did not survive were not supposed to be on the Island and therefore the Island is killing them. First with the creature and second with a rip tide.

Locke is supposed to be there and therefore was not killed by the creature.

[Baron X]

So you're saying instead of sending a shark a, jellyfish or a swarm of killer bees to take her out, the island maniupulated the current off shore to keep her away from the island until she could swim no more. Hmmmmm seems some what extra supernatural to me................

[Iseult of the White Hands]

Well, as I have said before, I think that the "monster" is a vehicle of some sort being used by an inhabitant of the island. So why was the pilot killed but not Locke? That's easy. Look at who they are and what they were tryong to accomplish. The pilot was a professional whose primary concern would be to get a signal out to rescuers and get the survivors rescued. In other words, bring outsiders to the island. Likewise, when Kate was trying to get the antenna up into a tree to boost the signal, she was interfered with.

Locke, on the other hand, was just trying to catch a meal for everyone. Not escape, not send out a signal, just kill a boar to feed everyone. If he did have any sort of conversation with whoever is there, he would have been able to give a reason why he doesn't want to leave. Locke obviously does know a lot about survival techniques- and one of the things that survival experts stress first and foremost is summoning rescue. But he hasn't brought that up even once to the group. Even though they could be doing things to help themselves- like signalling with hand mirrors, keeping watch for passing planes and ships, keeping a signal fire burning.

Locke goes into the forest without fear- like he knows that whatever is there won't hurt him. And it's more than just confidence that he can handle himself- because he wasn't concerned for Jack's safety, either.

[MangaKhan]

Baron x: So you're saying instead of sending a shark a, jellyfish or a swarm of killer bees to take her out, the island maniupulated the current off shore to keep her away from the island until she could swim no more. Hmmmmm seems some what extra supernatural to me................

Yeah, I guess that is too much to of a suspension of disbelief for a TV show that has paralyzed man walk, a Dr. see his deceased father, a pilot get killed by a 60 foot monster, a polar bear on a tropical island and people surviving a plane having its tail fall off at 30,000 feet with only scratchs on their faces. :rolleyes

[Azriel]

Yeah, I guess that is too much to of a suspension of disbelief for a TV show that has paralyzed man walk, a Dr. see his deceased father, a pilot get killed by a 60 foot monster, a polar bear on a tropical island and people surviving a plane having its tail fall off at 30,000 feet with only scratchs on their faces.

:rollin Yeah, it's just too much! LOL!

[Baron X]

Sarcasm? I like it.

[MangaKhan]

Thank you.

[Baron X]

What I was trying to point out is, if the writers have stated that everything will have a base in science, death by riptide seems outside the scope. They are in an unknown environment, nature is nature. I think she just was in the wrong place at the wrong time. No deeper meaning. Should they have given the character a different background then scuba diver? Definitely. But we will have to wait and see if anything comes from it. Personally I don't think it will even come up again on the show.

[MangaKhan]

Nothing JJ Abrams does is by accident.

[Enchirito]

Nothing JJ Abrams does is by accident.
Except that one time when he spilled coffee on himself. He did that by accident. :p

[Baron X]

What about the time he tripped at the Emmy's? That was damn funny.:rollin

[deelsee7]

My theory ties in to the comic book, and the translation of the page we saw, which was something amounting to the superheroes saying they were sorry about something that happened 50 years ago. At first, I thought nuclear testing, but now I'm leaning more toward Roswell.

I don't have it fleshed out yet, but it could be an alien which is trying to communicate telepathically. It probably wouldn't communicate in language, or at least 'worded' thoughts, but with images... hallucinations? If so, the pilot could well have been dead in the tree, while the alien gave them the information.

#$%&* I just shot down part of my own theory! If talking to the pilot was an hallucination, it was certainly capable of communicating in English.

OK, so the alien can communicate in words, but would 'telling' Jack where the water was get him to go there, or would he just ignore it?

Maybe the dead, or mostly dead, survivors from 16 years ago were sent to investigate a downed UFO. If the alien is familiar with Roswell and the alleged fate of the alleged aliens, maybe it killed the previous survivors in what it believed was self-defense.

Or maybe this alien came looking for the Roswell aliens 50 years ago and ended up on the island. 'Adam & Eve' had been there at least 40 years. Maybe the island is an alien research project. They just got a new grant and so they needed a new set of lab rats.

My brain hurts and I have to go to work in the morning...:\

[gdpsych]

I also think that the "monster" did not actually kill the pilot, at least not intentionally.

Looking at the facts as shown in that episode. The pilot was already gravely injured. When the pilot is grabbed from the wreckage he pulled out of the window with jagged edges of glass all around him.

When we next see the pilot he is lying dead in a tree, bloodied but relatively intact.

The pilot may have been killed by the jagged glass around the window's edges. When the pilot is pulled from the plane we see glass and leaves falling back into the plane.

We do not even know if the pilot was killed instantly, or simply bled to death at the top of the tree. And, unfortunately there will be no backstory for the pilot. I would really like to see the moments of the crash from the a pilot's perspective. Even if they did not know what happened themselves.