+ Re: Recurrent theme of negative/bad/absent Fathers... aka daddy issues

[Dan Forever]

A thought just struck me, a lot of the characters have had bad fathers, or strained relationships with them.

Jack and his father weren't on speaking terms.
Michael was seperated from Walt for 9 years.
Sawyer's father shot his wife/sawyer's mother and himself.
Jin had not spoken with his father for a long time, until soon before the crash, and dispised his father in law (ok, I suppose thats common in every day life, hating the in laws, but generally not for the same reasons).
Locke has stated his father was not "cool", implying another bad father. The fact that he had foster parents also helps that theory.
I can't think of any more father issues with any other characters, but it appears to be a developing trend

[Homer Noodleman]

They've dropped anvils all over the scripts that the characters all have Daddy Issues. One little detail has always bothered me, and that is Kate's contradiction of that major theme. Thus far, she is the one character that actually has spoken well of her father (although, Kate being Kate, her fond memories of stalking deer with Pops might all be a lie). Also, in Born to Run it was made pretty clear that she had some sort of a conflict with her mother. Biscuitmom's interesting theory, that Jack was adopted, triggered me to take a look at the characters overlooked relationships with their Mothers.

Kate, Hurley, Locke and Jack's have all had screen time. Kate and her mother seem to have major issues between them. Locke's mother managed to be crazier than Locke, which is no mean feat, and she also seems to have psychologically abused him severely. Jack's mother seems cold and distant, but considering the damage he did to her husband's career, her reaction is understandable in that scene. Hurley seems to have gotten along with his mother fairly good. Sawyer's mother shows up briefly prior to getting offed by pops -- his taking on the persona of the conman obliquely points to a pretty sick subtext of acting out of the seduction of his own mother, and subsequently punishing her, in his adult life. Walt's mother we'll get to in a bit.

Other characters have mentioned their mothers, but not featured them in backstories. Shannon's step-mother is mentioned, but not her mother. Boone seems to have gotten along with his mother. Michael spoke to his mother on the phone briefly before boarding the flight.

Neither Claire, Michael, Sun nor Jin's mothers are mentioned.

Admittedly, nothing of much interest until you consider the story of the one mother among our main castaways. Claire was warned quite clearly that she needed to raise the baby herself, or great calamity would result. It should be noted the warning was that she, and not she and/or the baby's father, had to raise the child. This is interesting considering Walt, the other "special" baby's backstory. And not only Walt, but Michael's strange obsession that he had to raise Walt (as the phone call to his mother at the airport pointed out, the implications of that were never really considered by him). Had the psychic read Michael's palm would he have reacted in the same horror and told Michael he had to raise Walt? Much like the pens at Claire's adoption meeting going dry, perhaps Michael's obsession was triggered by the importance of him raising Walt?

There is some suspicion that all of the characters are "Special Kids". If so, perhaps each had a parent, either the mother or father, that would -- like Claire for Aaron -- be the one to shelter them from the coming storm? Perhaps, all of the other characters, having been raised by the wrong parents, are already seemingly lost to that fate that so horrified the psychic. As such, maybe their redemption is in inadvertantly protecting the Claire and Aaron pairing. Is saving Aaron the path to saving themselves?

[boonian androphile]

I remember a long time ago when someone pondered about the whereabouts of the mommies, particularly in terms of their effect on these particular children who perhaps or perhaps not arrived on this island accidentally. Daddies then overshadowed the mommies in terms of theoretical importance.

Kate's fond memories of stalking deer? Maybe a lie? It may be such a deeply rooted lie that the lie of it has evolved into reality. Or it maybe true. Or true in a sense. The fondest memory may hide the uglier ones that triggered Kate's flight from the law in the first place.

Who's the right parent? People who end up missing something from their childhood tend to replay that need in adult relationships. Kate calling the marshal all the time, developing a filial relationship with the Australian farmer. Boone seeking out approval from more competent older males. Shannon manipulating affection and rescue. Jack working with his father, Christian. For what purpose other than seeking continued approval. There are other examples, Im sure.

I agree that the instance by Malkin that Claire raise her baby is important. Does that just mean: you Claire are the one who loves the baby therefore it should be you? Is this the same for Michael's situation with Walt? Parents have to make economic and residential decisions involving children every day, but the decision by Walt's mother seemed a little cold. Maybe it was just in stark comparison with Michael's early artistic hot-headedness. Actually considering Walt's mother's illness based outcome, the whole thing reminds me of Hamlet where after Hamlet's father's death, Hamlet's mother marries her usurping brother-in-law. Hamlet's father appears as a ghost and so does Michael in a sense, a father in unfamiliar form, totally unknown to Walt. Hamlet's mother dies of poison. Walt's mother dies of something. A blood disorder was it? So maybe Walt's truest parent was Michael eventhough temperment and circumstances prevented Michael from raising Walt directly. Of course Michael and Walt are separated again in tragic fashion. Claire and Aaron almost are.

Are you saying that the psychic tapped into the passenger list and intuited that these people's main problem is that they have been raised by the wrong parent? Of course in terms of LOST itself, the implications are deeper: the quest; some form of salvation, personal, islandic, global, or otherwise; the sides taken by the characters in the inevitable struggle, and who gets Aaron! In terms of preserving the Claire/Aaron pairing, I think that people will do so instinctively and may or may not reason that doing so will also benefit them in the LOST scheme of things. Aaron may lead the way by simply being a baby and having an island full of people who want to see that child happy. Kate said, "It's our baby too." Of course, Kate was speaking prophetically as only Kate can.

[drabauer]

This is definitely worth another look Homer.

Before everyone reinvents the wheel, though, I'm going to link some other recent discussion of family issues, for research purposes.

Character connections (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sage?topicID=2216.topic)

character archetypes (http://http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sage?topicID=309.topic)

Kate & the Marshal (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sage?topicID=2265.topic)

Jack's father (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sage?topicID=2277.topic)

jack and the "Law of the Father" (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sage?topicID=1756.topic)

Kate is an Empathic Sociopath (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sage?topicID=1862.topic)

[sawyerhasbestlines]

Kate has 2 possibly conflicting backstories:

(if I don't get the details specifically, take it easy this is from memory)

- Kates father was on the west coast... Washington state (?) And when Kate describes his relationship to the woods, "it was like his religion."

- Possibly contrary to this, is the other backstory where Kate is in the midwestern states.

[Lostaboutlost]

I have also been wondering about this for awhile. It is very engaging, but I don't know what it would mean if ti were all true. Homer Noodleman, you went into the guess that maybe they are all "Special Kids," and explained what you meant, but I wonder what that would mean. Could you explain some more? I have a hard time understanding this stuff, so I woud appreciate the simplest terms possible. :)

[equinox]

Homer Noodleman wrote:
"perhaps each had a parent, either the mother or father, that would -- like Claire for Aaron -- be the one to shelter them from the coming storm?"

Poor Locke didn't seem to have any valid option. Growing under the influence of either parent may well have been even worse for him.

[equinox]

boonian androphile wrote:
"Jack working with his father, Christian. For what purpose other than seeking continued approval."

Competition? Some feeling of inadequacy mixed with a desire to surpass and humble Christian?

Interesting how after Christian's death and after his first therapeutic session with Locke, Jack transfers more and more upon Locke all his feelings of guilt, of blame, of feeling threatened by a potential competitor, of agressivity and of murderous rage.

[drabauer]

Interesting how after Christian's death and after his first therapeutic session with Locke, Jack transfers more and more upon Locke all his feelings of guilt, of blame, of feeling threatened by a potential competitor, of agressivity and of murderous rage.

I really like the way you put that austrasiel. Because if Locke vs. Jack is going to be the pivotal conflict that drives the second season (for a bit at least), it all goes back to the father conflicts, and the projection of that relationship onto Locke. Whereas Locke is defensive about the inadequacies explored so thorougly in his past. I still am puzzled by Locke's projection of beneficence to the island: sure he can walk, but he should be more than wary of father figures, be they sentient or non. I'm sure that's the point though.

Despite his past, Locke keeps going back to the father figure for more punishment, in the hopes (as do many in abusive relationships) that "this time it will be different."

[boonian androphile]

Austrasiel:

Competition, inadequacy, and a little humbling---certainly. Approval does not have to be attained painlessly. I agree also that Locke earns the new father projection syndrome. It probably doesnt help that Locke talks as though he is the father to several of the island characters.

Drabauer:

I think that Locke's projection of beneficence to the island is similar to the trip to Australia itself: one last chance for wholeness. Also fatherly/parental fulfillment. The island is now the parent to whom Locke gives total trust, as a child would a parent whether or not the parent's worthy.

[Homer Noodleman]

sawyerhasbestlines,

I'm going to get back to the Mommy/Daddy stuff, but just an aside about Kate. I suspect that Kate was meant to be played by an older actress than Evangeline Lilly. Making Kate five years older would certainly simplify her narrative, not to mention give Dr. Tom time to actually complete med school. Their depressing little tape message in the time capsule would certainly make more sense if they were 14 or 15 years old, instead of 9 years old. I think the compression of her backstory gives them a bit of problems.

[Lostaboutlost]

^ Wow that DOES make a difference! Hmmmm.

[Homer Noodleman]

I have also been wondering about this for awhile. It is very engaging, but I don't know what it would mean if ti were all true. Homer Noodleman, you went into the guess that maybe they are all "Special Kids," and explained what you meant, but I wonder what that would mean. Could you explain some more?

Well, where to start. I don't often mention what my actual theory about Lost is because it is basically a wild guess at the moment. None the less, there is a model that keeps floating around in the back of my mind. I think it is basically going to be along the lines of Colossus: The Forbin Project, an old 1960s science fiction movie. If you've never seen it, in a nutshell the US and USSR build these sooper-dooper computers to control their nuclear arsenals. These two computers link up, and rapidly evolve beyond human intelligence and end up deciding they are the overlords of mankind. I myself have always looked forward to the day when a robot makes me its pet (as long as I don't get studded with Rosie McDonald that is), but the folks in the movie freak out and decide they need to shut the computers down some way or another. Eh, go figure...

Special kids seem key to the story. Like I've mentioned before, I wouldn't be too surprised if the castaways find, somewhere on the island, a facility full of giant pickle jars each containing a "Special Kid" floating in brine, wired together, and amplified by some property of the island to form a massive mind control mechanism. Of course, its motive could be anything.

Unlikely to really be the plot of Lost, but ya' never know. That foolishness aside, I try to look at bits and pieces of Lost and see if I can figure out what we know, and what we assume.

In Claire's backstory we know the first time she visits the psychic he reacts with horror when he looks at her palm. He then shoves her money back across the table and basically boots her out. It should be noted, we have no idea what horror he saw, nor did he do any of the "you must raise the child yourself" babbling he does through the rest of the episode. Her boyfriend gives her the heave-ho, so she decides to put the child up for adoption. Out of curiosity, she goes back to the psychic, at this point, for reasons never explained, he starts with the "you, and you alone. must raise this child" bit. He never explains why. She tries to give trhe child up for adoption and something clearly intervenes to dry the pens up and foil that plan. He then puts her on the plane to Craphole Island, presumably understanding it would never reach LA.

We don't the competency of the psychic. Were his visions genuine, or was he being manipulated like the pens (however, knowing Hollywood, as sure as a General is Eeeeevil -- a psychic is the real deal and noble to boot). We don't know why the pens dried out, perhaps getting Aaron to the island is critical to solving the problem of the island, perhaps his appearance there potentially spells disaster. Also, we do know the deadbeat father didn't seem to be important.

That got me to thinking about Walt. Specifically, would the psychic have reacted the same? If so, Michaels strange obsession to gain custody of Walt can be seen in a different light. He pursues that obsession relentlessly, yet when he finally does gain custody of Walt he is non-plussed by it. He slams Walt's step-father against the wall and berates him for abandoning Walt, and later at the airport we see him trying to pawn Walt off on his mother. In other words, like Claire getting ready to sign the adoption papers, he is far more ambivelent than his obsession indicated. That led me to wonder if, because he was the "right" parent to raise Walt, he wasn't being driven to recover Walt by an outside agency. By the way, it would also mean Walt was already "Raised by Another", whatever that implies.

Then I wondered about the other castaways some who, like Kate, Shannon and Locke, have had hints dropped indicating they were special. Were some raised by the "right" parent while others were raised by the "wrong" parent?

This looped back to the oddity of Kate, and Kate alone speaking well of thir father. Was he the "right" parent while her mother, terrified of Kate like Walt's step-father was terrified of Walt, was just the other parent? Now, some like Locke -- who grew up in foster homes -- were clearly "Raised by Another", but perhaps others were raised by the correct parent?

At this point I'm not sure how you would untangle who, if any beyond Walt and Aaron, were special and if they were raised by the "right" parent, but it might be something to consider.

[lostmio]

good analysis, esp re Sawyer.
My impression was that Hurley's mother is a domineering type, not easy to please or to live with.
We know that Claire felt telling her mom about the pregnancy was not a option, and she had left or been kicked out from her home. And of course Michael's mom refused to help him with Walt - that could have a loving and proper choice on her part but the maternal pattern on the show makes me dubious. Ditto Boone. He didn't talk about his mother in a way that indicates any kind of emotional connection.
I don't recall anything about Charlie's parents, but I can't shake a mental image of all the lostaways in May 2004, looking in vain for Mother's Day cards that don't express gratitude for being the wind under their wings.

I've said before and still believe the one common lostaway thread is rotten parents. That would include Walt's former mother and stepfather.
The pressure may be on Claire and Michael to counteract that.

Homer: Kate, Hurley, Locke and Jack's have all had screen time. Kate and her mother seem to have major issues between them. Locke's mother managed to be crazier than Locke, which is no mean feat, and she also seems to have psychologically abused him severely. Jack's mother seems cold and distant, but considering the damage he did to her husband's career, her reaction is understandable in that scene. Hurley seems to have gotten along with his mother fairly good. Sawyer's mother shows up briefly prior to getting offed by pops -- his taking on the persona of the conman obliquely points to a pretty sick subtext of acting out of the seduction of his own mother, and subsequently punishing her, in his adult life. Walt's mother we'll get to in a bit.

Other characters have mentioned their mothers, but not featured them in backstories. Shannon's step-mother is mentioned, but not her mother. Boone seems to have gotten along with his mother. Michael spoke to his mother on the phone briefly before boarding the flight.

Neither Claire, Michael, Sun nor Jin's mothers are mentioned.

[Fancy Monkey]

As a regular lurker who rarely finds anything of substance to contribute, let me say as an aside that it's refreshing to read a thread like this one, where every post is insightful and well-thought-out.

Just a note to say that the discrepancy in Michael's attitude towards raising Walt may have more to do with the 8 years that elapsed between when he wanted to fight for custody and when he had custody thrust on his lap by Susan's death and Brian's reluctance. Which makes sense... early on, his life and his plans were built around raising his son. As time went on and he established his life without any contact with Walt, his priorities changed. Having Walt suddenly thrust back into his life was certainly a shock to the system, and the trepidation it produced in Michael is not surprising.

[sawyerhasbestlines]

Welcome Fancy Monkey,

Adding to your insight on Michael, his situation might also be a case of "be careful what you ask for."

[clayseason1]

This looped back to the oddity of Kate, and Kate alone speaking well of thir father. Was he the "right" parent while her mother, terrified of Kate like Walt's step-father was terrified of Walt, was just the other parent?

Did Kate speak well of her father? She intially seems to when describing tracking deer with her father, but then goes on to remark that it was his "religion". That ending to what appeared to be a fond memory made me sit back. Makes it seem like her dad was a fanatic about it, which doesn't leave a "kodak moment" in my mind.

[LostInWilderness]

Sounds like Locke. Maybe that's why Kate is working against him.

[NeillT006]

Did Kate speak well of her father?

That was my reaction, as well. I don't recall any affection-laden stories of dear old dad.

Moreover, I have always been mindful of the following bit of dialogue from the Born To Run episode:

Young Tom

You always want to run away, Katie.

Young Kate

Yeah, and you know why.


Now, I guess the easy take on this could be a trap. But, until presented with more information, Kate's dad is stamped with a huge question mark in my mind.

N.

[boonian androphile]

The Dads are not looking too good generally. Maybe Locke's father was making the circuit. Or his general prototype.

[hyperion101]

that has a loving relationship with their biological father? I can't think of anyone, except perhaps Walt.

ETA: Sorry, meant to post this in "Where are We?" Mods, if this has already been discussed, please move this there. Thanks.

[ccmerlot]

If you look up Lost TV series, in wikipedia there is, amonst other interesting info, the following:

Most of the major characters have fathers who are or were either absent, reluctant, or destructive. Thus far, the father issues of Locke, Jack, Sawyer, Walt, and Kate have been the most well explored, with Locke in particular being the victim of a wretched betrayal in "Deus Ex Machina". These characters are not alone, however: Aaron was abandoned by his father (Claire's boyfriend Thomas), Claire's past with her father has been alluded to, Shannon's father is dead, Hurley's father is absent (although he does talk about "Fishing with his old man" in Walkabout), and Sun's father is a particularly destructive force. In contrast to this prevalence of father issues, the only main character whose father seems to have been a positive force is Jin's. In this instance it was Jin's shame at his father's poverty that led him to tell Sun and others that his father was dead. Additionally, though previously absent, Michael is working diligently at being a good father to Walt. Up until now, there has been little to no mention of the fathers of (the late) Boone, Sayid, or Charlie.

In season 2 it is revealed that Shannon was at odds with her stepmother over the money left behind by her father. Ana Lucia, the first new cast member of the season, is portrayed as being in conflict with her mother, who works in the LAPD and whose professional seniority provides a situation comparable to Jack and his father. In the flashbacks, Ana Lucia was pregnant when shot, and losing her future child influences her actions on the island.

[AndrewsMommy]

Hi All!!

Just an observation, not really a theory.. but all of the characters we have background on so far have daddy issues. I'm wondering how this is connected to the big picture, because since I realized this (the kate episode) I'm SURE it ties in....

[ileslie]

Welcome AM, There was an episode on this of course. I tried doing a search for you but gave up after a few minutes. I am sure there is a thread out there that has discussed this. In fact it you can come up with a idea that has not already been discussed, you'll be a hero. At least until January 11, 2006.

The search capabilities are much better than on eZboard. Give it a whirl.

[LostInWilderness]

Welcome to the board AndrewsMommy. Please read the welcome forum, look around, and have fun.

I just did a boolean search on
(daddy parent*) +issue*
and found several threads on the subject that I merged together.

[Caper469]

Do any of the survivors have dad's who are still alive and are not all screwed up?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Caper. Your thesis is too short to invite serious discussion. Take a look at some of the threads Homer creates in General Discussion. He researches the topic on which he's trying get a conversation started.

I'm sure you're talking about Jack's drunk dad, Locke's organ-stealing sire, maybe Kate's blown-up pop. But how are we to know?

We know nothing about Hurley's dad, for one.

But the real reason I felt compelled to respond is Jin's father. He's a good, hard working man. His reunion with Jin was one of the most heartfelt moments in the history of LOST, in my opinion. Just because he's a fisherman doesn't exactly make him messed up.

[LostInWilderness]

Welcome to the board Caper469. Please read the welcome forum, join in and have fun.

You came to the right place to ask your question. I did a boolean search on
daddy +issue*
(like the name of the episode) and came up with a lot of good discussions. I merged your question into this one.

[changomo]

Hi, great site.

I want to apologize ahead of time to Admins and other members if this has been brought up before. (feel free to move and/or admonish)


My wife noticed there is a recurrent theme of negative/bad/absent Fathers in the show.

Just wondering if this has any connection to the final “mystery” of the show.

Take a look

Eko – absent/not mentioned
Sayid – absent/not mentioned
Claire – Father Abandoned her Daughter
Jack – Father was a drunk, critical of him
Shannon – Father Died which caused much problems in family
Walt – Father was forced to leave him
Sawyer – Father Killed Mom, them Himself
Jim – He was ashamed of his Father
Sun – Father was a gangster
Kate – Father was abusive and wanted to molest her
Charlie – Father was harsh and didn’t respect what Charlie wanted to do (butcher dream scene)
Locke – Father tricked him for his Kidney
Micheal – As a father forced to leave his son, own father absent/not mentioned
Anna-Lucia - absent/not mentioned
Libby - absent/not mentioned
Boone - Father Died which caused much problems in family


Mothers have been illustrated at least in a neutral (Michael’s wife, Jack’s Mom) or positive light (Anna-Lucia’s Mom, Charlie’s Mom)

The only person that I don’t recall is Hurley’s dad – he was okay right?

Cheers

[LostInWilderness]

Welcome to the board Changomo. Please read the guidelines in the welcome forum and join in.

This is one of many threads discussing the poor parenting common among the lostaways, so I merged your post into it. Have fun.

[changomo]

Welcome to the board Changomo. Please read the guidelines in the welcome forum and join in.

This is one of many threads discussing the poor parenting common among the lostaways, so I merged your post into it. Have fun.

Thank You!

[LostInWilderness]

Don't forget to add Charlie's mother. She pushed him to succeed as the salvation of the whole family.

[athywithak]

and Charlie's Dad seemed at least distant (not in first two flashbacks) and having an unattractive profession and a lack of belief in Charlie's talents, and possibly even violent

CS said: Jin's father.

Yeah Jin had daddy issues, but not because of his Dad.

ETA: and don't even get me started on how C's mom wanted him to get them all "out of here" when they have lots of presents under the tree and a seemingly largish house etc - unless there was something to escape from besides poverty?? I think it might just be that the poor are always portrayed on TV as much richer than...me!

[lostrierie]

Okay...it had been driving me crazy that more people are not talking about this. Have you noticed that every one of the main Losties has a major 'Daddy issue'. I mean, sometimes it feels as though the writers go out of their way in some flashbacks to make sure that they throw that in there. I mean, every single person with a flash back...I think that this is going to mean something BIG later on...I mean, this is too big of a coincidence. I just have no idea what it is going to lead to...any ideas?

[LostInWilderness]

Welcome to the board lostrierie. Please read the welcome forum and join in.

As you can see we've certainly talked about this before, but thanks for bringing it up again. I found this thread by doing a boolean search for
daddy +issue*
Try the search here. It'll help you find what you want.

[lostrierie]

Welcome to the board lostrierie. Please read the welcome forum and join in.

As you can see we've certainly talked about this before, but thanks for bringing it up again. I found this thread by doing a boolean search for
daddy +issue*
Try the search here. It'll help you find what you want.
Thank you...but I wanted to keep my message where it was so that people could see it. I mean, I figured that it had been brought up before I few times, it looks like some people really live for this stuff, but as a writer, I am telling you that this is a BIG deal and I wanted it where I put it. How can I move it back...I mean, no one will see it here unless that is what they are looking for...

[PandoraX]

Thank you...but I wanted to keep my message where it was so that people could see it. I mean, I figured that it had been brought up before I few times, it looks like some people really live for this stuff, but as a writer, I am telling you that this is a BIG deal and I wanted it where I put it. How can I move it back...I mean, no one will see it here unless that is what they are looking for...

Well, everyone WANTS their msg to be visible, but if your thread is about the exact same subject as the thread it was merged with (see the first post; it was), then there's no point in posting separately.

If you, however, want to contribute something NEW to the discussion, then by all means talk where this other thread left off. It will be bumped that way if others have an interest. You could, for example, discuss Dostoyevsky and The Brothers Karamazov, and how they relate to the daddy issues ideas (they do... since the brothers conspire to kill the father in the book), or talk about the relevance of Claire's father being possibly related to the conspiracy (he may have, since the song of the mobile in her flashback was the same as the one her dad used to sing).

[LostInWilderness]

You can discuss your subject here, or you can post it anew in What I think... I hope you keep it here.

[picklespeach]

The house that Kate set on fire, wasn't that the home of her step-father? I'd say that's a daddy issue, even if it isn't her biological daddy.

Sun's mother was in the episode where Sun and Jin met. Her mother criticized her choice of dress and shoes and then joined her for a meal during which Sun was introduced to a potential husband. It was brief, but it was enough for us to know that Sun's mother very old-fashioned regarding the place of women.

[Kilroy]

The fathers seems to be a big deal for a lot of losties. Locke's dad, Jack's dad(who may be alive on the island) Kates'dads, Sawyer's dad, Sun's dad. I think Sayid's dad was a war hero.

Maybe all of those men were part of Dharma in some way or got in trouble with Dharma and had to deliver their only(? not sure about that) child to the island?

[LostInWilderness]

Welcome to the board Kilroy. Please read the welcome forum and join in.

You could probably guess we've discussed daddy issues before. Try the search engine; it's your friend. Merging.

[malale]

Daddy issue as acute awareness of grandfather paradox.

What does killing your father do to your ability to time travel ?

"In order to see/hear Jacob, you have to had betrayed your father," quote whodidi1687 from "why richard hasn't aged" thread

that's why I make my first post, following clayseason1's links.

it's all "coming back round"

[whodidi1687]

I think the fact that daddy issues are so prevelent really echos the fact of the "original defiance" of creators.
The rebelious theme of being able to see "the truth/Jacob" only after defying their father or own "personal creators" is actually really neat I think.
I think Walt is a really awesome character, because his "daddy issue" is really complex, Michael is a character that we all really know rather than some deadbeat that the other dad's were. In a way, I hate michael, a lot, but I don't have kids so that whole "do anything" for your child thing I don't really relate too, all I see is some scared little man selling out his friends.
Walt I think hates this a lot, because I don't think Walt has had a lot of personal sacrifice to deal with (spoiled much?!) I'm actually waiting for his mom to make an appearance...
So this is what I think of Jacob, hes waiting to get back in that Garden of Eden, and Ben is his little recruit.... but John, who I think is supposed to be guarding Eden, is kind of like Jacob's enemy you know? So I think what REALLY freaked Richard out is when John picked up that knife and he figured out EXACTLY what the island wanted him to do.
So I THINK Jacob is trying to stray John from his job, so he can infiltrate Eden with the "Others". hmmm.............. off topic sry lol daddy issues RIGHT.

[malale]

Could you discuss more this "original defiance" ? It has a nice ring to it

I consider Michael a victim of (extreme) circumstance plus manipulation. Walt's issues with him in season 1 aren't so sympathetic, but now it's like he's been provided with a grandiose messed-up father issue. And he's "special". he could become a weapon of the others.

The garden of eden can be thought of as the hub of all father issues.

I was thinking how Walt's aversion to Michael being his sudden father (season 1) is very adolescent, and expected, and has similarities with Jack's behaviour, except Jack is more prone to weeping. Locke, who would be expected to have serious justified homicidal urge towards his father, in the end doesn't.

original defiance : against fate, being born at all ? You would accept things on the way, if you thought your fate was something worth suffering for.

Aren't children sometimes conceived to fulfill missed destinies of parents?