+ Plotting the general area of the island

[NeejaHalycon]

I was thinking, if someone could find the usual course planes take from Fiji to the U.S. (I think they're online) then we could use the times mentioned in the show to figure out about where the Lost should be. (Of course, by "about," I mean within several hundred square miles.)

Anyone want to try this?

[cccourt]

This sounds like a challenge...and a fun one. However, we don't really know which direction they are flying. We are assuming east..but the truth is, they could be on an airline which goes through customs in Honolulu as opposed to the West Coast. Also, there are several nationalities. How can we say the plane isn't going through Tokyo for refuel..to drop off the Japanese? We don't really know how many Japanese were on the flight. So many possibilities. Don't you love it?

[nastyned]

"Japanese" -- I thought they were Korean?

[very lost indeed]

They are. At least I'm pretty sure.

My recommendations: (After all, look at my sig... :p )

The plane, a "777" (producers used an old L-1011) is a modern, intercontinental aircraft. It can fly the Sydney to Los Angeles Route, but many airlines, such as my recent Qantas flight, prefer the 747s. The 777 can hold up to 451 people (in a 2-class configuration), so that's how many we'll assume are on this doomed airliner.

Enough about the airliner. Today's aircraft seldom have to refuel in-route. We know that the origin of the plane is Australia, because Walt says his mom died in Australia, and his dad was taking him back to the states. Two cities in the U.S. hold long-distance international flights: Los Angeles and New York.

This flight could've left Sydney, heading for Asia, then to the U.S. East coast, but they didn't. Fiji is off Australia's east coast (Sydney), and all LA-SYD flights fly over the islands. Therefore, to turn around and "try to land in Fiji" according to the Oceanic pilot in Ep. 1, they would've had to fly over it heading east towards U.S. Airspace. Had the flight been going north to Asia, there would have been PLENTY of land to try to land at. (Indonesia and all that...)

So, if we can assume the flight left from Sydney and was proceding to Los Angeles International Airport, then the flight is downed somewhere in the expanse of the Pacific Ocean. If I remember correctly, the pilot said "6 hours in we hit trouble" or something. The entire flight time for a typical SYD-LA flight is 13 hours, so they hit trouble about halfway through the trip. And amazingly, they tried to turn around to Fiji (Hawaii was still MILES away), and ended up off course.

My theory anyway. Comments? Opinions? Questions?

(I recently went to Australia and flew Qantas Airlines from LA-SYD and back, so that's how I know some of this, the rest comes from liking aviation!)

:D

[RedShirt]

if anyone works on this just remember that the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line. Except on a globe, you must allow for the curvature of the earth so most long flights follow a curved path not a perfect straight line.

[JacksGirlfriend]

I think it sounds as though Very Lost should try to do it. You can be our navigator and if we get Lost... so be it.

I agree they left Sydney and figure they were on route to LA. They were 6 hours out when trouble developed and the Pilot said they were 1000 miles off course heading to Fiji. I think initially he was trying to head back to Sydney but veered off toward Fiji. Wouldn't we just have to figure out what 6 hours from Sydney would be, then turn around until we reached an intersection line with Fiji, subtract the distance and plot the rest of the way toward Fiji?

I know nothing and I'll admit it (and I truly suck at math and the trains going in opposite direction stuff), but that's what I'd do. I'd probably end up on a worse island.
JacksGirlfriend

[yung23]

Are you saying the plane had left sydney then passed Fiji heading north east towards the US ? When they had trouble and decied to turn back toward fiji instead of cross the Pacific ocean ?

[JacksGirlfriend]

The impression I had was they turned back toward Sydney, decided they couldn't make it and thought Fiji might be a better option.
JsGF

[very lost indeed]

Okay. Wow. I'm surprised you guys actually listened to me. Usually, I just ramble on and on...

Here we go:

Let's say their Oceanic Airlines Flight ZZZ left Sydney. We know they are heading to LAX based on facts stated in my previous post. THIS IS A VERY ROUGH ESTIMATE, DON'T BELIEVE IT IF YOU DON'T WANT TO. MAJORITY IS BASED ON GUESSWORK.

Now, Flight #ZZZ encountered trouble "6 hours out", meaning they blindly, stupidly decided to turn around to Fiji when they lost radio contact. (Over places such as the Pacific Ocean, the lost of radio contact is not uncommon, and flights always proceed as planned, and reappear on radar near Honolulu.)

As you can see on the map, Hawaii is still pretty far away. I mean, it is a big ocean. A normal flight would still have 7 hours of flight time until LA, but this isn't a normal flight. So, on the map (the red lines and circles indicate normal flight path and arrival/departure points), the X marks the spot where we assume ZZZ turned around. The black line represents the turn around to Fiji, and then the flight path to Fiji which they presumably took. This would, in fact, put them about 1,000 miles or so of course in the process of banking gradually for the turn. (Hey, these things DON'T turn on a dime, despite what you may think...). The black square represents thier intended destination, Fiji. Although, they never made it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/trainwhiz20/pacific.gif

That's my best, extrememly rough guess. As said before, there aren't many (if any) unknown land forms on Earth. But, I say, heck with where they are. Not like they can get back on the plane and hop to another island... :lol

Sit back and enjoy the show, no matter where they are.

[JacksGirlfriend]

So basically we're somewhere in that unfinished oval. Right?

[very lost indeed]

Pretty much.

Your guess is as good as mine. But yes, somewhere either along that black line, or either side of it. (Room for error...)

Sorry about the crappy map. Best I could come up with. Not to mention my lines... :lol


Any comments, questions, criticisms?

[yung23]

i am mostly amazed by the idea there may be/ are ? unexplained islands out there... however this is a real world, at the most you might find another Galapagos... but a Hollywood twist on that might be believable.

[pinnerman]

Great post and thread. This is the kind of stuff I'm excited to see. I'm sick of seeing posts from people who watched the show and have a pulse and then come in here and just throw nonsensical ideas out there. I understand that's the nature of these forums, but sifting through the idiotic posts for good info gets old really fast. This is practical and useful and cool, so thanks.

Here are a couple of maps from my previous posts. This first one will allow you to look at map grids between Australia and North America and see satellite imagery of all the islands that exist in the Pacific. Very interesting, you can see that everything that's out there is cataloged and there's satellite photography on file, even for the parts where its just ocean!

eol.jsc.nasa.gov/sseop/Cl...efault.htm (http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/sseop/Clickmap/default.htm)

The second map is of current world geography with time zones. The width of each grid box is 1000 miles. This comes in handy because if you start in the general area of the "Black X" from very lost indeed's map, you can see the area that a 1000 mile radius would cover. One key thing, the pilot said they went 1000 miles OFF COURSE, so they probably didn't turn right around and go back towards the southwest to Fiji. They probably went in a different direction. Everyone is assuming they are in the South Pacific. There is a possibility they could be north of the equator, which technically wouldn't be the "South Pacific". If you look at the X on very lost indeed's map and cross reference it with the following map, you'll see that they were probably in the vicinity of, or already north of the the equator at the 6 hour point. So when they changed course, unless they for sure went south, the could be north of it. The climate isn't any different on either side for quite a few miles. Toilets might flush in a different direction, but that's it.

www.maps-continents.com/time-zones.htm (http://www.maps-continents.com/time-zones.htm)

If this helps any of you to continue to work on the possible location of the island based on the flight plan comments from the pilot, please keep it up. I'm working on island theories to explain why they can't apparently can't be reached, I'm also trying to link the island to the crash itself. This thread is a top 5. Nicely done.

[yung23]

Why hello, I was only saying galapagos for an example. its shown on the map above. hmmm...maybe galapagos has a big unknown cousin island....

[maxpublic]

Except that there aren't any unmapped islands anywhere on the planet. Satellite imagery of the surface has been done many times, down to a resolution of a few feet (for commercial purposes, better for military). A "Gilligan's Island" scenario is impossible in today's world.

From ep 2 it appears that the island is *at least* ten miles across, perhaps more, which produces a probable land area on the order of 100 square miles. Easter Island, by comparison, has a total land area of only 63 square miles. The island is large; there's no way it could be uninhabited - at least not on Earth. And there is no island anywhere near this size on the flight path that Very Lost projected for us.

Speaking of the flight path, the turning curve wouldn't be that large. Even the largest of transcontinental airplanes can make a 180-degree turn over the course of a few miles; in a shorter distance, if you don't mind scaring the hell out of your passengers. If you do some flying into major airports on a busy day you'll no doubt have noticed this yourself, as planes in holding patterns trace lazy boxes over the airport waiting for their turn to land.

We have to wonder what happened to the plane to force it that far off course. Did all of it's instrumentation fail, including the radio? If so, then how in blazes did the pilot know they were "a thousand miles off-course"? He could only know this if he knew where the plane actually was, which tells us that at least some of the instruments were working; and if they were, how did they get off course to begin with? The only thing I can think of is that there was some sort of interference with the instruments which gave the crew false readings, and at some point they must have realized this - as well as what the readings should actually be.

To the poster who says they could've turned north instead: no, they couldn't have, even if they had no instruments. The plane was flying during the day during good weather; every pilot can gauge the direction of his flight path by the sun, even if everything else aboard the plane fails. There is no way one can mistake the direction of the sun and accidentally head north instead of south. It just isn't possible. For that reason I think that the flight path that Very Lost plotted is fairly accurate, except that it doesn't take into account the deviation which originally convinced the crew to turn back and make for Fiji (unless there was some other reason the flight crew turned back for Fiji, apart from course deviation).

And speaking of the sun, here's an anomaly which is probably a mistake on the part of the producers: the plane turned back. The sun, which had been shining primarily through one side of windows, is now shining through the other side of windows. Yet *no one* aboard the plane noticed this fact and asked the crew what the hell was going on. I sure would've noticed that the plane turned around; why didn't anyone else?

You might say that the passengers were informed that they were turning back and we just haven't seen that part of the show yet, but do you remember the conversation with the partially-eaten pilot? Jack and his very hot sidekick were surprised by the fact that they were off-course at all; this was news to them. It also supports the idea that the passengers had no idea that anything was wrong. Bizarre, since anyone with a lick of common sense could see that the plane had turned around if they'd just looked out the window and seen that the sun had swapped around in the sky.

Unless, of course, *all* referents had somehow been obscured. The only case I can think of where this happened is with the infamous Flight 19 that disappeared in the Bermuda Triangle, where the pilots seemed to be unable to even locate the direction of the sun. It's one of the things that made the case so bizarre, since using dead reckoning Flight 19 should easily have made it back to base (or at least to land, with fuel to spare).

Max

[very lost indeed]

Interesting. My take:

Yes, the turning radius could be a bit smaller. I have flown on many a aircraft, but I may be wrong. Normally, however, pilots like to keep the bank of the turn as minimal as possible. Not to mention that this turn must have been extremely wide considering that the passengers never seemed to feel the plane turning around at all. (According to everyone, they were still "on course" until they found the pilot.) So, the radius of the turn around would be very, very large had the passengers not felt the plane turn around (which we know it did, the pilot said so...)

As for the sun.... Good factor. Who knows? Remember, we're dealing with a really stupid pilot here...

Course deviation? From what I think, they were exactly on course until they lost radio contact, and then they just made, a wide, causual turn back to Fiji like nothing was wrong. Until... well, you know. Not to mention Fiji, since they flew over it a few hours ago, was their best shot at a landing sight.

That's my two cents. Keep the thoughts coming maxpublic.

[JacksGirlfriend]

When the pilot said "1000" miles could he have just been throwing out a number for the unprofessionals surrounding him? Maybe he didn't have instruments but because of experience, he had a very rough estimate. Besides at this point I don't think he expected to die.

Also just because an island's been mapped doesn't mean it becomes significant in anyone's eyes. If a plane off course went down with no communication of any sort and left no visual evidence, how on earth would people even know where to start looking?

I like having a rough idea where they might be on the planet's surface - but I still don't think they can possibly be physically found. I think it's impossible to find something that "disappeared". But I like guessing where they might have vanished.
JacksGirlfriend

[maxpublic]

Actually, if an island of this size were east and north of Fiji it would have been discovered and occupied by the European Great Powers during the era of colonization. That's how Fiji/Tahiti/Midway/etc. all came to be of importance in the first place, because having a large base for your merchant and warships was critical to projecting sea power. Take a look at any map of Oceania and you'll see what I mean. If it's on the path that Very Lost projected it would be a gem of a discovery since there isn't anything comparable close buy. The trade revenues and port fees alone would've made the island a prize, even if you weren't interested in military dominance in the Pacific.

Also note that there's no navigational beacon on the island. If there were the French castaways would've turned it off in order to get a maintenance crew to come out to the island and (inadvertently) rescue them. Even if they had died before a maintenance crew arrive, that crew would've heard the distress call (and probably noticed the 25-foot-tall invisible gargantua wandering about the jungle eating people, too).

These things, along with the other oddities posted in various threads, lead me to believe that they are indeed stranded on an island on Earth. Just not *our* Earth.

Max

[JacksGirlfriend]

I agree. I just posted my recurring theory in your "observations" thread.
JacksGirlfriend

[cccourt]

You are all right...and I am not paying attention ...at least not closely enough. Now that you mention it, I do recall the Korean heritage. None the less...it was thrown out there as a possibility...for a destination not thought of.

[NeejaHalycon]

The only case I can think of where this happened is with the infamous Flight 19 that disappeared in the Bermuda Triangle, where the pilots seemed to be unable to even locate the direction of the sun. It's one of the things that made the case so bizarre, since using dead reckoning Flight 19 should easily have made it back to base (or at least to land, with fuel to spare).


For the record, most of the Flight 19 story is urban legend. (Check here. (http://bermuda-triangle.fateback.com/19.html)) The leader's dead reckoning got fouled up and there was[ei] a storm.

Now, as far as lost goes, I think the producers have probably taken some creative liberties, so I don't think they're in an alternate dimension or back in time. Maybe the island has some sort of quarantine warning because the "invisible gargangt

[cccourt]

You people are wonderful. Now then...the islands identified and located by satellite...we are forgetting about artistic license. Do you think the writers and producers are laughing at us...wondering how we come up with these thoughts? OR...do you think they are realizing how serious this is to all of us...and they are going to have to go back to the drawing board to explain the plot. I still haven't ruled out ETs. ;)

[cccourt]

Go back to Pinnerman's last post. Follow his 2nd map site...map with time zones. The possibilities are endless. If the writers are as clever as all of you...they chose this precise spot for the discussion by its viewers!

[maxpublic]

Nah, we aren't forgetting about artistic license. But one of the things the producers keep harping on is that everything will be self-consistent; and an imaginary island that doesn't exist on our Earth just isn't consistent. If you're going to start creating large land masses out of thin air, you might as well introduce things like aliens, psychic powers, and ghosts. At that point the shows ability to suspend disbelief is wrecked. What you'll end up with might still be entertaining, but in an X-Files sort of way - and I've seen enough X-Files to last me for the next decade or two.

Max

[very lost indeed]

Look guys,

I think the creators of Lost have come up with something unique. I don't even know what that unique quality is, and as matter-of-factly, neither does anybody else.

I, too, like having a general idea of where on the planet they are. But, because this isn't the real world, we'll never be able to plot thier exact location. Probably not even come close. As I said, that map I posted is just a rough estimate. Just to narrow down the playing field a bit...

Yes, as said again and again, there aren't any non-discovered land forms on Earth, no matter whether the French or the English settled it howevermany years ago. However, I'm sure the Lost people have come up for a believable answer for that too, but we don't know that either.

True, "1000" miles is a very general estimate of the off-course aspect. But, does them being 997 miles or 1016 miles off course make a difference? No matter what, they are LOST, and that's exactly why I'm watching the show. The whole point is we don't know where they are. And I have a feeling it will stay that way for a bit.

My map isn't some of these theories people keep posting that they die-hard believe are the answers. That map isn't. For all I know, the plane might be in the Arctic Circle! (Just kidding, although, that polar bear might argue with me... :lol )

And, yes, I think it's funny to see all the ideas people post and how are imaginations run wild. I'm not laughing at anybody, because I'm one of them, but it just goes to show how we are all so addicted to LOST. ;)

[JacksGirlfriend]

I loved the X-Files but I don't need another one. But even though everything in this show is supposedly based on reality doesn't mean it has to be this reality. I'd prefer no "aliens, psychic powers, and ghosts" as well. Give me good old fashioned Earth stuff... just elsewhere.
JacksGirlfriend (I need a shorter name)

[cccourt]

I am SO slow. Just realized Vanuatu is the island they landed on. All this is a Jeff Probst hype!! OH NO>>>>>>>>>>>: lol

[HGN2001]

Do we know of a date that this flight took place on? If it's anything near real time, that is, September of 2004, then suppose at the point of trouble/course change, that the sun might be directly overhead. Near the equator and near the equinox of late September, at local 12 noon, the sun would be directly overhead and useless for navigation.

Just thought I'd throw THAT into the mix.

Harry

[Sleeestack]

To you skilled photoshop and design engineers out there:

Can anyone put together a rough draft of the island/continent (3-d with topography would be cool) based on what we know so far, and then add to it as details are revealed?

So far we have:

1. The beach (which is facing directly into the open sea and not a protective cove, and based on the position of the sun is facing the west).

2. Highlands.

3. Lowlands.

4. The area where the distress call was recieved.

5. The area where the nose of the plane was located.

6. The Black Rock. (and)

7. The Starbucks.

I don't want to add other areas revealed in the spoiler's section, but ya'll catch my drift.

Edited to add: MaxPublic and Pinnerman--I will be sorely dissapointed if "Cartography" is not also included in your repetoire's!:D

[JacksGirlfriend]

So will I...

JacksGirl

[Woodnymph12]

Yay, I love thinking about where the island might be geographically-- or at least where the plane was before it crashed!

I don't have much to add to this discussion, though when I've flown from that part of the world to Los Angeles, the plane has stopped and refueled in Nadi (Fiji) and Honolulu. So I assume that they are most likely somewhere between these places, but closer to Fiji and still south of the equator (unless they got off course, or went into another time/dimension/planet/etc., which would be cool, too).

[JacksGirlfriend]

Even if the island's in another dimension, or earth, or wherever, we can still plot the island's topography. It would be fun to do before someone else does it in a magazine or special publication. We could add to it over time and have it done by the end of the season. Any takers?

JacksGirl

[mtdewmomma7]

Hi everyone. I am new to these message boards, but here goes my take on where they are. The French lady that the group hears over the transponder makes a reference to the "black rock". I thought this "black rock" might be an actual place, so I did a bit of research on Fiji and found out that Black Rock, Fiji is a popular surfing spot on one of the many islands.

[cccourt]

wow jack's gf: what a challenge. Pinnerman could do this...I am confident in that. I am not smart enough. Who is the poster who created the Oceanic Air graphic. I figure he lifted this off the napkin we have seen in the previews. He is your best bet.

Another problem I have doing this is knowing where it is actually shot. I let the reality in!! Ha, ha.

[JacksGirlfriend]

Very Lost Indeed: Is this something you can do?

JacksGirl

[Woodnymph12]

Wow, the "black rock, Fiji" as an actual place is interesting! Nice detective work there!

And re the JacksGirlfriend challenge: I seem to remember reading an interview where the show's creators or writers said that for some mysterious reason the characters would never quite be able to tell how big their island is, or even if it's an island at all... I'm all for charting the island's features on a map, but we should keep in mind that it may be an impossible task.

[JacksGirlfriend]

I think it's still workable. Couldn't we just re-scale it as we get more information - start with a general shape and work from there, shaping and enlarging as we need to, adding physical characteristics and manmade structures, etc.?

JacksGirl

[Woodnymph12]

Sure, I guess so. We can map what we've seen so far and go from there-- I'm just saying we shouldn't be disappointed if we start getting confusing or conflicting information. Also, I wonder how long it will be before the castaways will want to scout out the island and make their own map?

[JacksGirlfriend]

I'm hard to disappoint. I've been around too long. I'm a realist.

JacksGirl

[maxpublic]

If the producers hadn't already come up with, I'm willing to bet one of their interns (tasked to read what we're all posting here) will bring the map idea to their attention, and a map which updates after each episode will appear on the official website.

Would be nice if they saved us the trouble.

Max

[JacksGirlfriend]

I can just see someone sitting and taking notes. They're plotting out next year with our thoughts. And it's probably just a matter before they come out with "The Official Guide to Lost" which of course I will run right out and buy.

But I will not read it. I will save it for later, but someone will have to go through it looking for quotes from this board. (Notice how I'm always asking other people to do things? I just noticed that). First I will read Pinnerman and Max's book.

I think we need a map if only to see how close we come. Doesn't Very Lost Indeed want to do it?

JacksGirl

[WINDMILLBOOKS]

Something to confuse all of you:

When pilots talk about miles, they usually mean KILOMETERS, which is farther.

Ive been using the Quantas routes and Encarta maps to figure that the originally posted map is pretty good guess.

Plus, the island could of been a more recent volcanic creation that hasnt been mapped.

But, odds are that the series isnt that accurate as to the true island: ARTISTIC LICENSE and all...

/Alex

www.qantas.com.au/content.../int/index (http://www.qantas.com.au/content/dyn/routemaps/int/index)

encarta.msn.com/encnet/fe...=701512448 (http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/mapcenter/map.aspx?refid=701512448)

[WINDMILLBOOKS]

Then there is the consideration of what the pilot has gone through and how he ended upright, when he should of been nose down in the dirt...

Ever see the Lockerbie crash pictures?

/Alex

[airattackpilot]

just working with the assumption that they take the same course as Quantas (very highly likely, generally the same route all LAX-SYD flights take) and working with the maps given and more of world atlas's this is what i've come up with
(forgive me i dont have a 'map creator')

but...roughly estimating using the variables: "1000 miles off course" " turned back to fiji", and considering most of the islands are inhabited and would more than likely help (in that area Tuvalu, Kirabati, Samoa are prime contenders and all in the flight path) the only Island/s I can really find are "Wallis and Futuna." Both of which are super small, but do have a small population of only non-technological islanders. but......Futuna has a small neighbor...Alofi which is uninhabited.

now heres the real kicker.....these islands are French ruled (remember the trasnmission?)yet france has very very little to do with them! i think you get where im going with this.

this is just my first try, their will be others.

[maxpublic]

Just a couple of things:

- this island of ours doesn't exist on Earth. It's either one of those things we have to suspend disbelief on (i.e., "IF the island existed, THEN we have this show") or our castaways aren't on Earth at all.

- the nose should've ended face down in the mud. However, it had to go through some pretty heavy tree cover before hitting the ground. It's possible the nose flipped over ripping through the trees, which would account for it ending it up in the position it did.

Max

[airattackpilot]

trust me i agree with both, but just assuming this being hollywood and just in case this is this earth. those are my finds. :eek

[cccourt]

Windmill: If pilots talk in miles, they mean miles. In that part of the world, they do state kilometres. Depending on the home origin of the plane (Australian..Qantas or American--Delta) the pilot will say in KM or miles...but usually both.

Re: maps...Pinnerman's post on page one of this thread gives the map links you need to see.

Maxpublic has stated the producers/writers have stated this is a fictional place. We just don't know if it is a place the survivors are actually on ...or a rip in time. All these theories are on this board...you must go through the titles to find them. At the rate new posters are going, the meat of this board is being pushed farther and farther back.
ccc:hat

[JacksGirlfriend]

Hey, what ever happened to this? Did we give up on the idea of plotting the island? I think we need to see the big picture before we can concentrate on the details. If the island is the key to this, we need to see it. If "the eye of the island" is "magic", we need to find out what it is and why it's "magic."

Is the eye a volcano? The black rock? A piece of industrial equipment? A mammoth? We don't know yet but having an island to look at it might help us.

Shouldn't we take a walkabout and see if we can find enlightenment in the geography of the place?

JacksGirl

[MacLeod]

Ok here goes some of my feelings about some of the theories that have been said. First of all the I have several friends and a brother that are pilots including one that was a navy pilot and talking to them about some of this that turning back to Fiji is term of reference and does not mean a 180 degree turn back. Its a reference to deviate from there course and head to a airport that could support a landing by such a large aircraft. Now for the island part my late grandfather was in the navy in WW2 during the island hopping campaign the stories he would tell of that there are a lot of islands in the south pacific and some are good size that were as he put it vacant and he joke about the reason for the island hopping is that if they stop and checked every island they past. As he put it "We would still be out there." Also remembering history that in 1972 they found a Japanese officer still fighting the war, and in the 80s found a undiscovered outpost on another island. So it wouldn't surprise me if we see something like that also happen. This is just some real world items that can justify some of the things happening. Well I should get off my soapbox and go back to lurking.

[lafar]

Great point MacLeod! Satellite mapping is not everything - even though we might have a picture of everywhere somewhere, I doubt everything is mapped very well. There's no financial gain for anyone to bother with.

As for the map, it sounds like fun. I used to draw a lot of imaginary fantasy islands when I was younger, I can certainly try again.

I don't have a VCR, however, to tape the shows so I could review them for details. If someone could post anything said or shown that relates to the island's topography, I'll get to work on the map asap.

[very lost indeed]

Hey guys,

Sounds like you guys have been waiting for me! I have been busy lately, no time to check the threads... (I didn't realize this topic would make a comeback!)

Okay...

First off, this banner in my sig was not lifted off the napkin on the ABC site. I created it using a special program on my computer. I studied the logo that appeared on that napkin, on the plane (i.e. glass panel in first class section), and stuff like that. I am truly into aviation. I create logos and slogans for fictuous airlines in my spare time. Therefore, it was not hard to reproduce this Oceanic logo.

I appreciate the comments on my first map posted. It was very crude, and just a natural guess that took me a half-hour or so to figure out. I can't believe you want an encore!

I'm not so much as an expert on the topography of the island. That would be really hard, considering we've only mostly seen green forests, a beach, and a mountain or two. Good point though. I'm not saying I won't do it. I just need more details, and I'm not sure how to come about the project. Sounds like lafar could handle it.

I'm just curious as to their excuse of what brought the plane down... (I've heard talk of windshear, microbursts, and turbulence, and these just aren't possible. Any wind activity would strike the plane and bring it down as a whole, not cut it cleanly into three pieces. From the show, it's like someone said, "Okay, hmm... let's chop it up. Put one cut between the back and the end of coach... um.... one here, between first class and coach...oh yeah, and one in the middle of coach."

I will now keep a close eye on this thread, so if anyone needs advice from this little 14 year old aviation/aircraft enthusiast, let me know. I'd be happy to help.

Thanks for listening to me guys! I'm glad I'm not some ignored little kid! :b

very lost indeed

[azteclady]

This is old and probably irrelevant but: 1 mile is roughly 1.6 kilometers.

Also, the island may be one of the biggish uninhabited islands in the Pacific - I don't think we can be sure precisely what the producers mean when they say 'big.' It may very well be close to other, inhabited islands, something none of our survivors have cause to know.

Beto

[MacLeod]

Well for one about the breakup of the plane is that if you think about it the plane broke fore and aft of the wing and I have pulled up a layout of a generic 777 layout and approx. 70 seats are placed in that section and that sudden stress on the body could have caused it to break along the lines of where the wing and body connect and here is a interesting site that I have found that has a database on plane crashes. What I have found is pretty much that almost anything can happen. www.planecrashinfo.com This website has stats on almost everything about plane crashes.

[yung23]

Someone study the map drawn on the napkin on the ABC site and match it with our world map..
I gotta do dishes...

[leftofpunk]

Not to sound cynical, but if yu want the topograghy, just figure out what real island they used.

[JacksGirlfriend]

Punk: Max decided it couldn't possibly be a real island. They said it had to be "fictional" because it didn't show up on a satellite map, etc. etc. There's a thread about it... somewhere...

JacksGirl

[leftofpunk]

yeah, I don't think the island in LOST is entirely real or at least visible to radar and such, I was just saying figure out the ACTUAL island they filmed on and look at that.

It is cool to see the approximate area they're LOST in though using these maps posted.

[Badger]

When pilots talk about miles, they usually mean KILOMETERS, which is farther.

Actually we measure distance in nautical miles, not kilometers. Speed is measured in Knots. (nautical miles per hour.)

A Kilometer is less than a mile (One Kilometer being ~.6 statute miles and one mile equal to ~1.6 Kilometers)

[JacksGirlfriend]

Punk: I want someone to make a map of the "fictional" island they're on - adding stuff to it as we discover things. Like the beach, the valley, the cave, the waterfall...

It will never be accurate, but hey it would be fun to watch it develop and change as we learn more stuff.

Of course no one's volunteered yet... I may have to get out the black and white stones...

JacksGirl

[Baron X]

I believe the Starbuck's is on the lower east side of the island across the path from the other Starbuck's.

[JacksGirlfriend]

But I want to know where the Barnes and Noble is. The extras need something to do and Sawyer is hogging Watership Down.

JacksGirl

[ccmerlot]

OK: how about this: small island, somewhere near the Samoas, evacuated decades earlier after secret american h-bomb testing during WWII? Might explain the mutant ninja gargantua beastie.
c ya

[JacksGirlfriend]

Did the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles originate there too? I always had a thing for Raphael. He never calls anymore...

JacksGirl

[Baron X]

The Barnes and Noble has a Starbuck's in it also.

[JacksGirlfriend]

I should have known because mine does too. In fact, it's the only Starbucks in town. We're not very cosmopolitan around here. We're a "one-Starbucks" kind of town - like Sunnydale.

JacksGirl

[Mithril379]

If the island exists in reality as we know it, it would be satellite mapped. But that doesn't mean anyone is particularly interested in looking at the island any harder. There's wilderness all over the planet where we are not actively searching for castaways, polar bears, etc. Unless something about the island stimulated an interest in more thorough investigation the island could be satellite mapped yet remain in complete isolation.

[JacksGirlfriend]

I like it, Mith. Where were you when Max was insisting it had to be "fictional" because of the satellites, etc. He had pages of reasons.

Of course I still think it isn't on "real" earth. But hey, that's me.

And where is Max? I feel a new thread coming on.

JacksGirl

[azteclady]

Mithril, that is what I wanted to say a while back!

I'm just not articulate enough - seems all I do is point to other people's posts and say, "me too!"

And just how sad is *that* I ask you?


Beto
dejected

[annala413]

One of my best friends in the U.S. is here for school from Australia. Her flights stop in Tokyo. Never one in Japan. They say the same way as all commercial airlines on the show, and I guarantee there is a stop in Tokyo, unless its straight to LA because Jack was talking about getting there and burrying his dad. Also, in all the airport scenes you here about the flight now boarding for Singapore. Don't know if that has anything to do with it but it just might.

[yung23]

I cant beleive this post is still going. don't worry its a good thing..

[onewordnospaces]

The first 2 hours (pilot) were on TV again tonight, and I noticed a couple of things. There is a scene which I believe is the first night, everyone is sitting around the fire discussing what happened. The night sky is clear as anything, complete with stars twinkling. I don't have anything to do TV screen captures, but I thought if anyone has the episode taped, maybe get a capture of the night sky, see if there are recognizable constellations. Admittedly the show is filmed in Hawaii, not the South Pacific, but we can get an idea which direction the beach faces. At a given time of year, Constellation "A" is in the north/east/west/south quadrant of the sky and Constellation "B" isn't visible until another season. Example, seeing the Southern Cross or the Big Dipper narrows down the direction easily. So, if this constellation is visible over the water, it tells us roughly which direction they are facing, and which direction the plane came from judging by the direction the fuselage wreck faces. It might tell us if the plane was headed south/south west back to Fiji, or still in the 'turn' going back.

Maybe we could even come reasonably close using "Distant Suns" night sky program www.distantsuns.dk/ (http://www.distantsuns.dk/)

[cccourt]

Putting this at the top...for newbies

[AilaAolani]

If you're going to start creating large land masses out of thin air, you might as well introduce things like aliens, psychic powers, and ghosts.

ROFL! So does this mean that you can acknowledge a land mass that isn't really there now?

Also remember 1degree off ovre a long enough time will wind up being a significant difference from course. Isn't itt possible that the equipment failed and the pilot drifted just a litttle Maybe up to 10degrees for 5 of the 6 hours? off course but did it for lng enough that they are not where he thught they were?

[igator210]

Found Thread (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sage?topicID=388.topic)


I already posted this once. See if it still makes sense.

[d r]

I think it is fun to think about where the island is, and if you have a good map it is fun to look at all the islands in the south pacific.

However, I really believe this, if there was an island of that size with drinkable water on it it wouldn't be uncharted and it wouldn't be uninhabited (well, this one was inhabited, but you know what I mean). Look at the remoteness of someplace like Pitcairn Island, and it has people on it. And it isn't nearly as nice a place. There are some fair size uninhabited islands left in the world (like Oeno or Hunderson), but none of the size of that island (the size of the Mountain ranges suggest that it is large) with drinkable water on them. It just wouldn't happen. Most islands that are still uninhabited are very harsh environments. There are many uninhabited islands in places like Tahiti and Micronesia, heck hundreds in the Solomons, but they are tiny little coral bars with no drinkable water. And they are well known to people. There are just too many people in the world for an island like that to be unnoticed. Actually, it doesn't even matter how many people are in the whole world, it only matters how many people are in the south pacific. Living on islands there is always a population push, always a need to expand and find a new island. There are many islands in the south pacific that are strecthed to the ends of their resources and would move their people to a place like this island if it exited. Heck, if that was an uninhabited island I'd move there. The island of lost looks like a place for a resort. No way would it be left alone. Plus the polynesians were remarkable for finding and settling on islands, and most that are not inhabited today had ancient polynesians attempting to live on them but they failed. They wouldn't have failed on this island. Too many resources. Plus, there wouldn't be wild boars to hunt or sugar cane fields to run through or Eucaplyptus leaves for healing - most truly remote islands have a very limited flora and fauna. Well, of course polar bears makes that a pretty stupid point, but maybe you will get what I mean. It is a volcanic island with plenty of flat land for agriculture and an air field and a lot of high elevation to make it noticable. It would have been found by early explorers, it might have had a base on it in ww2, etc. Even before satalite mapping it would have been found, and there is no way it wouldn't be known today. And if it was known, it would have more people on it than Danielle and Alex.

here is a little map
www.pacific-travel-guides...c/map.html (http://www.pacific-travel-guides.com/south-pacific/map.html)

another-
www.mapsouthpacific.com/p...index.html (http://www.mapsouthpacific.com/pacific/index.html)

I'm not trying to be a bummer here, but I'm just saying. Of all the leaps of faith and suspension of disbelief, this one is as big as psychic powers and surviving a plane crash, etc.

[drabauer]

I agree d r, but that causes me to wonder, once again, whether those islands used for nuclear testing in the South Pacific have all been re-inhabited. Wouldn't it be possible for flora and fauna to survive and yet still be contanimated by radiation? That is, people would stay away, but mutations of indigenous and imported animals/plants might yet flourish to an extent.

[AilaAolani]

What if they are inhabited? Danielle says there are others. What if the others are an indigenious tribe that owns the island, rather like Native Americans own their reservattions?


It can explain the whispers in the ttrees and them never being seen - the whispers are because they're there but yu cant see thtem and not being seen unless they want you to see thtem is attributed to native peoples all ver the world including Australia and southern Africa. :)

[azteclady]

Aila,

First off, I love the Jung quote! Could double as war yell for many psychologist/psychiatrists I've met - unlucky me!

Second, I like your idea of the island not being uninhabited, but what if... instead of a 'native' group of people, the 'others' are a modern group of people - expeditionary force, a scientific expedition (this one headed specifically for this island, unlike Danielle's ill fated ship), etc.

To try and make myself clear: what if some sort of natural disaster wiped human habitation from the island in the relatively recent past, and a group or groups of people (the 'others') are sent there to see how things are *now.* Natural disasters can include earthquakes, volcanic activity, epidemics, tsunamis, whatever.

These 'others' could have gotten to the island before Danielle and her party, or shortly after, or long enough after for Danielle to have killed most of her companions (maybe all except Alex, her child?).

Maybe Alex is alive, is not Ethan, but has been taken from Danielle by the 'others,' and *that* is why she asks Saeed 'where's Alex?' in Solitary.

Of course, all of the above doesn't explain why the 'others' don't show themselves to Danielle (unless she's just spooked by their existence and has hid her presence from them since they got to the island).

It *could* explain why Ethan has taken Claire and Charlie, if he and the 'others' have been infected by whatever infected Danielle's companions.

I've given myself a headache. Back to catching up...



Beto
member of STOP - Society To Oust Purgatory (theories)
official member of the fund raising committee

typos... the bane of my existence

[FrankCarr]

Here's an interesting story of a seemingly cursed Pacific Island:
The Curse of Palmyra Island (http://www.strangemag.com/palmyra.html)

While the tale, like anything from Strange magazine, must be taken with several grains of salt, there is plenty of script fodder in it and in other Pacific island stories.

And, in case you were wondering, there is a Starbuck Island (http://www.janeresture.com/kiribati_line/starbuck.htm) too.

[Master Xander]

Saving this thread from death.

[v1p3r6]

heres some info i found about the micronesian islands:

The favourite bogeyman of Micronesian Islands are cannibal spirits or ogres who are characterised by their brute strength and stupidity. They tend to come in families of ten; ten brothers, each one hand-span taller than the next or the first with one head and the second with two heads and so on. They can sometimes be driven away by blowing on a conch trumpet or simply by making lots of noise. Sometimes, the ogres who dwell in the woods so terrorise a district that has to be abandoned. This calls for the birth of an ogre-slaying child who is a special hero in Melanesia but is also well-known in Micronesia.

sounds familiar? there are different levels of monsters on the island like charlie said, the polar bear is just a tiny version of the one that killed the pilot.

this info also states that a birth of an ogre slaying child must be needed once these ogres terrorise a district.

and you can scare them by making noise...so ethan and his comrades have invented a sound device to drive away the monster from their underground bunker.

what do you guys think?

[v1p3r6]

another thing about oceania, if you look at it in a general way it kind of sounds like what ethan is like:

Another story concerns a man called Lowakalle who was a very big and strong man as well as a fearful fighter who lived on Arno Atoll. One day, he left his people and went to live alone on an isolated islet called Ijoen. No one would visit him here because he had warned all the people to stay away and after a long time he was nearly forgotten and his people did not know if he were dead or alive.

Later on, the people of Arno began to complain about a stranger who visited their village, stealing their most precious possession. Nobody knew who the thief was but they began to suspect it was in fact Lowakalle and they were right. Lowakalle would raid villages both day and night by swimming from the islet Ijoen.

His crime then became worse and he would steal all the food he saw at the cooking fires and he would kill anyone who got in his way. The situation became so desperate that a meeting was called of all the elders of the villages who decided on a plan to eliminate the monster Lowakalle. They sent out many canoes which caught many fish and they then cut all of their catch into pieces and threw them into the sea attracting many sharks.

Lowakalle decided that many fish were being caught and he began to swim towards the area to steal them. In doing so, he swam right into the centre of the shark who killed Lowakalle and ate him. The fishermen then returned home to spread the word that Lowakalle had been killed. The people of Arno felt safe again and named the reef where he had been killed "Lowakalle" and it has this name until today.

[v1p3r6]

sorry for all the posts, im done for tonight but i found another thing when read generally kind of sounds like lost:

The theme of the ogre killing a child is also common in the Solomon Islands. The monstrous creature who devours people has many different shapes. He may be an ogre or a giant in human or spirit form, or an animal like a crocodile. Almost always, the overkillers are twins, although occasionally the hero himself is a bird like a cockatoo. The method used to kill the ogre are various. In a story from New Ireland, there was a great devouring pig who caused the villagers to flee to the offshore island of Tabar, leaving Tsenabonpil behind because she had a swollen leg, so heavy it would have sunk the canoe. She mated with a bird and produced twin boys who killed the pig. The woman sent the pig's hair attached to a coconut leaf to Tabar as a sign. The fugitives returned and Tsenabonpil allocated them to different clans and assigned them their totems so that they would know how to behave towards one another. She also taught them magic and other skills.

..ok so in that it says an ogre that kills a child comes in different shapes, *maybe ethan is one form?* and it also stats that there were pigs (which were probably boars) that caused the villagers to flee. *and thats what happend in lost, half of the survivors fleed inland*

im out for tonight, anyway i hope you see what im seeing, its probably not valuable but in general it sounds like our show.

[Cassis1]

Thanks for resurrecting this thread. It's full of stuff that I've been wondering about. And the folklore is interesting too. If our island is anywhere in the real world, it might have had a Polynesian population that left [why?] or was removed [why?] before the polar bears, Amelia Earhart, French, mad scientists, and our castaways arrived. It could be the source of legends of unlucky or cursed islands....

Did anything ever come of the attempt to map the places we know of on the island? We now have the general outline of the place in the map Sayid took from Danielle. But where are places located in relation to the others?

--The beach and the caves must be reasonably close, considering how many times a day that people go back and forth (including a wheezing Shannon and very pregnant Claire). When Jack/Kate/Locke/Charlie took their first hike to the caves for water, it looked as if they started midmorning. They were able to get to caves, explore, be chased by bees, have Jack & Kate return, heavily laden with water, to the beach, and for Jack to convince people to come with him, pack up, and arrive back at the caves as night was falling.

I'm guessing it can't be more than a half an hour to forty-five minute walk from the caves to the beach. One route goes by the golf course, which is probably closer to the caves, maybe ten or fifteen minutes' walk.

--Jack, Kate, and Charlie were able to find the cockpit, explore it, meet and run from the monster, and get back to the beach within a few hours.

--The group going to high ground with the transceiver went far enough that they had to stay overnight, but I'm not sure how late in the day they started.

--Sayid was walking for two days mapping the coastline of the island before he found the cable. Presumably, some of that time was devoted to finding water (he couldn't have carried much in that little bag) and mooning over pictures of Nadia, so how much ground would he actually have covered? He followed the cable to Danielle's tricky trap, which was presumably close enough to the Chateau Crazy that Danielle could lug his lifeless body home. It took another two days for Sayid to make his way back to the caves, but he was wounded at the time. It looked as if he came through the jungle, too, rather than retracing his steps on the beach.

--Locke, Jack, Kate, and Boone followed Ethan, Claire, and Charlie "north." It was 4:30 when they split up. Jack and Kate were able to find Charlie, revive him, and get him back to the caves by shortly after nightfall. Locke and Boone, meanwhile, were in the highlands shortly after nightfall when they found the metal plate, which makes them perhaps five to seven hours' walk from the caves.

--Michael and his search party went "south" and arrived back at the caves after dark. We don't know what they saw or how far they went.

Can we fit all this onto the map? Does it help us figure out where things are?

[cccourt]

I don't know who did it...but I love this one too. It reminds me of when we really thought we would locate/identify a real island!!
ccc

[tavella]

Well, we can sort of map it to a real island: Oahu. I'm only half kidding, I'd say the geography is pretty clearlybased on it. (http://bestofhawaii.com/map_oahu.htm)

As for where they are -- someone at the buffistas board posted this great circle tracker (http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=syd-lax%0D%0A&RANGE=3000nm%40syd%2C+1000nm%40hnl%2C+1000nm%40suv %2C+1000nm%40cis%0D%0A&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=mi&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=). The red is the flightpath Sydney to LAX, there are 1000 mile circles on Hawaii and Fiji, and a rough 1000 mile circle (not exact, as they'd be passing over Tokelau, which has no airport) over their most likely location six hours in. They should have been practically over Fiji by the time they crashed. Given that their island, going by the map (http://www.radix.net/~lhb/pictures/islandmap.jpg) (flattened and cleaned up in photoshop) is only a little smaller than the two main islands of Fiji, it's going to take some serious, serious suspension of belief to buy it's in our world.

[v1p3r6]

my guess they are off one of the french polynesian islands. that explains why rousseau is there..

[cccourt]

v1P???? I love it...Easter Islands...Folklore...this is wonderful stuff. Oh..I love this thread..and all the info it gathers!!
ccc

[v1p3r6]

lol wait why did you put ??? after my name do you think im nutz?

if you combine all the info i posted it kinds very similar to lost. but do you think jj and his gang actually read folklore about these islands before making the show?

also i believe adam and eve, like mentioned before, are earhart and noonan.

[v1p3r6]

whoops i posted this thing on the wrong thread here it is:

the calculations i put in showed that the plane landed in the same area where the boat crashed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/magpiebiscuit/lostmap.jpg
*sorry about quality*

Red dots represents islands/cities. the island to the right is tahiti while the one on the left is fiji. the center of circle is where plane turned back.
Black square represents boat crash after 3 days and circle represents radius of 1000 miles from where plane turned around after 6 hours of flight. red line is assigned flight path. (You can see the circle and square overlap meaning plane crash and boat crash in same place?)

Well my calculations have danielles boat going at 13 knots per hour (13 mph) which would be 349 miles per day for 3 days which is 1047 miles. that would be between tahiti and fiji.

then i made the plane fly about 3300 miles away from sydney flying at around 550 mph considering the amount of weight and weather conditions , thats if there was a 20 minute wait on runway and 10 minutes of ascending and turning. then in a 1000 mile radius, the plane would have came from the east of fiji probably to avoid weather conditions and then it crashed over the same location as the boat did.

so the final result is that our plane landed somewhere west of french polynesia but east of american somoa. but those are just my results.

[drabauer]

Back from the archives: for all the cartographers out there.

[cccourt]

Gosh Amy...I am working too hard. I am just reading along..and thinking...we have discussed this...i have read something similar...then I get to the map...and the three points...and explanation...THEN read your "bump". How stupid that I never looked at the dates!!
ccc

[yung23]

I love this one, sniff sniff . look my second post ever...
and we still beleive we can chart things.
awesome.

[NeillT006]

I never got invoved in this or similar threads in the past. But, in rereading what people were thinking and doing, this has occurred to me.

I see lots of speculation about location using the idea of being 1000 miles from the point where the plane should have been when six hours out. This is based upon the pilot's statements. When you think about what the pilot said, I am not so sure that he meant 1000 miles from where they turned back. "Off course" suggests to me the idea of being 1000 miles from the general area of where the plane should have been if it had not turned back .

If correct, this could have a pretty significant impact on where people draw all their circles and squares.

N.

[Druzliah]

does anyone have danielles maps?

[drabauer]

Welcome to the lost-tv theories board Druzilia!

There are several links to these maps on the boards. You will want to look at yung23's many fabulous maps

here, (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm2.showMess ageRange?topicID=3242.topic&start=1&stop=20) as well as check out the lost-tv theories index link below under "the Island" or "Geography."

[Druzliah]

Thank you Drau, that was a big help. :rollin

[yung23]

after reading this again...


And amazingly, they tried to turn around to Fiji (Hawaii was still MILES away), and ended up off course.


maybe once they hit the six hours out mark (the island)
they encountered the turbulence as they went into this realm...

then they tried to turn around for fiji (not realizing it was now gone) and ended up off course..
so maybe the island started phasing again and they got swept away with it
(hence them sensing themselves being 1000 miles off course, they already were !!!)

[Fourtoes]

Be careful about "1,000 miles." Round figures are rarely meant to be taken literally. They are WAY off course. Could be 823 miles. Could be 1080 miles. Could be the wrong reality. Doubtful it's exactly 1,000 miles.

[NeillT006]

Doubtful it's exactly 1,000 miles.


And doubtful he was talking statute miles.

N.

[Chance Gardener]

and would a 4 toed statue mile be the same as a 5 toed statue mile?

[Fourtoes]

No need to make it personal, Chauncey.

[yung23]

:bump:

[yung23]

To you skilled photoshop and design engineers out there:

Can anyone put together a rough draft of the island/continent (3-d with topography would be cool) based on what we know so far, and then add to it as details are revealed?

So far we have:

1. The beach (which is facing directly into the open sea and not a protective cove, and based on the position of the sun is facing the west).

2. Highlands.

3. Lowlands.

4. The area where the distress call was recieved.

5. The area where the nose of the plane was located.

6. The Black Rock. (and)

7. The Starbucks.

I don't want to add other areas revealed in the spoiler's section, but ya'll catch my drift.

Edited to add: MaxPublic and Pinnerman--I will be sorely dissapointed if "Cartography" is not also included in your repetoire's!:D



:)

sorry, this thread brings back memories..

[CENSORED]

CHEURRRY PIE!!!!!