+ QuantumPhysics&NaturalSelection:Making ManyWorlds Happen

[SelfProjectRealized]

Alright, everybody. You're all pissed that the show isn't catering to your expectations of what you would call realism or being "scientific" and what I would call closed-minded conformism to modern (but not proven) interpretations of what little science has so far discovered.

But don't forget, Fury didn't say this was gonna be a show about current interpretations of science. He said they would try to give everything a scientific or pseudo-scientific explanation. You people see things like psychics, or Walt controlling reality with his mind and you jump on the word "mystical" and shut out any more thought processes about how this still may fall under the realm of pseudo-science, if you're a creative enough thinker.

Now... first of all, let me tell you what pseudo-science IS, since no one seems to actually have any clue (including, possibly, David Fury, but that's another matter). Pseudo-science is the presentation of ideas as empirical, scientific facts but which actually have not been proven or observed empirically. Basically, for a system to qualify as pseudo-scientific, all it really needs to do is be internally consistent. As long as you can say "okay, here are the rules that this universe follows, and they behave in a lawlike manner", then that system qualifies. Whether or not its rules have any existence in the real world is the next step - it's what turns pseudo-science into real science, speculation into proof. But, for LOST, that step is unnecessary since Fury's quote said pseudo-science would be enough. So, speculation is still allowed on this show.

And, with that, I present to you my theory. I don't actually think the writers will spell it out like this in the end, for the simple reason that it would be pretty much impossible to write an expository scene describing all this. But, I believe that my theory is capable of explaining everything that has happened in the show so far and the purpose of this thread is twofold - first, to question my science if you feel like it (even though this is not science, it is pseudo-science, i.e. my own interpretation of certain data that science hasn't fully explained yet, of which there is a hell of a lot more than you all seem to acknowledge), and second, to discuss how well or poorly I've covered the questions presented in the Lost text so far (because, after all, that’s really the only criterion when it comes to textual interpretation).

To begin, you’re gonna need some background on Quantum Physics and what makes it special. At the sub-atomic level, the world does not act in the same was as it does “up here”. Logic and reason don’t seem to apply. Nothing is certain, the quantum world is all about probability. The first important maxim is that data like velocity, size, direction, or position are indeterminate if they’re not being observed. By indeterminate I don’t mean that we simply don’t know the value until we observe it. I mean that an electron, for example, does not even HAVE a position/direction/etc. unless that piece of data is being observed. Schrodinger described this phenomenon with his thought experiment about a cat in a box. Since we can’t see the cat, we don’t know if it’s alive or dead until we open the box. But, in quantum physics, what this would mean is that the cat is neither alive nor dead UNTIL we open that box. There is NO REALITY when it comes to the cat’s life, only possibility. What the state of a cat or electron like this is called is being in a “superposition”. The way this is represented graphically is in a “Hilbert Space”, which has surfaces pointing off into various directions/dimensions, each one representing an “eigenstate”, or a possible quantity for that data point. When in superposition, the vector representing the data point is off in the middle somewhere, in line with none of the eigenvalues. But when we observe it, it’s like “uh-oh, I’m gonna have to make a choice now!” and it “collapses” onto one of the surfaces. Only then does it have an actual value, and the way it makes its choice is based on probability.

Now, this is <snip> up, no? I think it was Bohr who once said something like, anybody who thinks they understand quantum physics and is not completely mystified by it has not actually understood the first thing about it. But, the fact is, experimentally, quantum physics has gathered so much evidence at the sub-atomic level that it is essentially proven (at least by the maxpublic definition of the word). So, now, we are forced to interpret it. And therein lies the problem. People can’t seem to agree on the interpretation, and that’s why this still qualifies as speculative science, pseudo-science, and that’s one reason why it’s still so damned interesting.

One interpretation, called the “many worlds” theory, is that when a waveform collapses, EVERY possibility becomes a reality. I may end up observing the cat as alive, or the electron as spin-up, but, just by observing it at all, another “possible world” has been created where I observed the cat as dead, or the electron as spin-down. This theory is very popular in literature, of course, because it is basically saying that every possible world, in some sense, exists somewhere or other. And that’s freakin’ cool. One problem with this interpretation, though, is that it goes entirely against our instincts that this is the world, the reality that matters, the one that’s real. The theory doesn’t play favourites when it comes to possible worlds; the one we are in is just a result of random probability. Well, you know what, that sucks. It’s too much. We already feel majorly insignificant, telling us that there’s an effectively infinite number of “realities” out there just makes everything... well, pointless. Because, the way that theory sounds, it seems like for any decision I’ve ever made, I’ve actually made every possible decision in some world or another. And that kinda negates the whole point of making decisions in the first place. So, as an addition to the possible worlds theory, sometimes people add on the idea that only ONE of the possible worlds is the “dominant” one. The real one. The other worlds do exist, in some sense, yes, but our world is the one that’s in the film projector. The other ones are just reels sitting on a shelf. Got it?

Now... here’s the fun part. MY theory. It’s essentially a mixture of QP and Darwinian Natural Selection. I’m assuming the many worlds theory to be true, and I’m assuming the “dominant reality” theory to be true. Now, natural selection works on the fact that, well, existing is good. Species whose characteristics are consistent with their prolonged survival and the prolonged survival of their genes are the ones who are “selected” for. Imainge, now, that possible quantum realities worked in the same way. They have to compete with each other for dominance. They don’t want to be on the shelf, dammit. They want to be in the projector. So.. what would make any one reality more likely to be dominant than any other? Well, since it is the observers (e.g. us) that very literally create the world around us (whether we realize it and can control it or not), an adaptive characteristic for a “reality” to have would be one which somehow catered to its observers (sort of like you guys want the show to do :p )

Now. The island. The island is a part of one possible reality that is “fighting” for dominance. It has some adaptive mutation which allows it to alter itself based on certain things within its observers’ minds (which are as much a part of the causal scientific world as anything else) and, so far, this reality’s “infiltration” of the current dominant one is localized around the island the plane crashed on, probably just by coincidence.

PILOT - The plane crashes, they survive. Why? Because that’s one of the possibilities. Even if it’s quite small, as long as it’s there, well, that’s how the waveform could collapse. And because our characters strongly wished to stay alive (consciously or subconsciously), perhaps because of all of their unresolved emotional issues, well, that becomes a part of the “island reality”. That’s the first example of its adaptive power - it just is what we want it to be, sort of. Now, the monster is another major part of the pilot as well. In my opinion, the monster represents these people’s panic and fear at their situation. Yes. It’s fear manifestation. Sorry Devin. And, when it kills the pilot, I pretty much think that was because Jack, Charlie and Kate, after finding out what the pilot had to tell them got a) really scared, and b) really mad at the pilot for flying a thousand miles off course and crashing. So, in response to their anger with him and fear, it became a part of their reality that the monster killed the pilot.

Tabula Rasa - Not too much to say about this one, unless it was actually Kate’s desire for freedom that created the plane crash in the first place.

Walkabout - Locke’s relief? Easy. He gets the use of his legs back and the respect of his peers as a cool hunting surviving leader dude. Easy to see why he would choose to “create” this reality.

White Rabbit - I have a lot to say about this wonderful episode. www.teegerschiller.com/lo...epages/103 (http://www.teegerschiller.com/lost/episodepages/103) ... just go there if you’re curious.

House of the Rising Sun - Adam & Eve, and the white/black stone.... Well, the latter is probably more of a symbolism thing, not really a part of my theory. Not sure about who Adam & Eve are yet. Perhaps they were the first ever people to “observe” in such a way that made this reality able to dominate somehow.

The Moth - Charlie’s a rock God, man. He needed that experience, he got it.

Confidence Man/Whatever The Case May Be - Pretty much all character stuff.

Hearts and Minds - The island reality, with the help of Locke and his goo, relieves Boone’s emotions by giving him an experience that helps him let go of his obsession with Shannon. He didn’t need her to actually die, he just needed to realize how he would feel if she did.

Solitary/Raised By Another/All the Best Cowboys/Special - These are the juicy plot ones. They’re setting up the arc of the second half of the season, which I imagine will involve Ethan and “the others” as the “big bad”. This island, the way I described it, as the local source of an infiltrating “reality” which, as a Darwinian adaptive property, makes itself dominant by responding to human minds, is an extremely useful resource. Like any useful resource, it can be exploited for someone’s personal agenda if they’re able to figure out how to control it. And that’s Ethan and his group of others, in my opinion.

Now, listen up. In our world, and the non-island world of Lost as well, which are meant to be one and the same, there are many reports of paranormal stuff. It’s all anecdotal, yes, and I’m sure the vast majority of it is complete Ksnip>. These include things like telekinesis, psychic powers, ghosts, and whatnot. But let’s say that some of it isn’t <snip>, that certain people, like Walt, Ethan and maybe Claire’s psychic, have an unusual connection to the rest of nature around them. They aren’t mere observers, like most of us, who are capable of collapsing a waveform but have no influence on where it will collapse to. Instead, they are also creators. When they collapse a waveform, it doesn’t just collapse based on probability. No... in these rare cases, the observers themselves are inextricably connected with the observed, affecting the Hilbert space vector itself (which is what determines what realities/eigenvalues are more or less probable). Walt wants to get his parents’ attention about a bird... the bird becomes a reality. He doesn’t do it on purpose, it just happens. He doesn’t know about his ability nor has he developed control over it yet.

But Ethan... Ethan has this ability too. And he HAS figured out how to control it, by getting near the “island reality” and usurping its resources. He’s a parasite. He can appear in Jack’s head as a hallucination - just like the island sometimes uses hallucinations (like with Boone) to make itself more desirable. But Ethan has his own agenda, and I’m not sure how yet, but I guess it involves Claire’s baby. Ethan may have so much control over reality that he was able to plant the ideas about the plane crash and the evilness of the child into the psychic’s head in order to manipulate her onto the island... I don’t know. I haven’t figured out the details. It may be a simple world domination thing, a quite literal one. More of reality domination than world domination, actually. And he’s building a sort of army (his “others”) which consist of anyone he can rope in, including most of Danielle’s team.

Now... Locke. I think Locke has figured out something about what the island does, with its relief and whatnot. And he helps out by getting the characters focused on their situations. Maybe he sees how useful a “special” kid like Walt can be and he’s trying to make sure Walt stays on his/the island’s side rather than getting pulled over to Ethan. I’m guessing if Ethan realized how powerful Walt could become on the island (innate quantum manipulative ability + perfect environment = deadly weapon?) he’d probably kidnap him too. So I think the black and white, backgammon symbolism is gonna be a Locke/the island vs. Ethan/the others thing.

The ability/responsibility of having control over your world vs. the corruption/exploitation of this power.

Sort of a wonderful metaphor, isn’t it?

Alright. I think I’ve gotta stop here. Tell me what you all think and I’ll respond and expand on my thoughts some more later in the thread maybe.

Thanks for the new title, Amy!

[JacksGirlfriend]

I could buy into it, Evan. It's exactly what I thought I wanted in the beginning - a mixture of the real world surrounded by some paranormal intrigue, a nice blend of science under the umbrella of pseudo-science. It would be so much easier to just drink the water from the well and embrace the madness. The villagers are starting to look at me funny and I can see torches in the distance.

Any place in your theory for the Bermuda Triangle angle? Time Loops? Are we totally back to the beginning of this board when we actually had open minds?

Like you said, I'm still not crazy about fear manifestation. Doesn't mean it isn't true - just means I'm not crazy about it. I might just have to acquiesce and accept all of it in the end anyway so opening my mind a little more wouldn't exactly kill me. I'll think about it.

Thanks though for saying exactly what so many people here have been trying to express.


JacksGirl

[drabauer]

I could definitely buy this.

[NeillT006]

Marty, that was very interesting music.
Back To The Future

N.

[JacksGirlfriend]

Or back to the past?

[walkingcarpet23]

It is indeed an interesting theory, and it's nice to see that some people around here are still posting ideas worth reading. Kudos Oven.

That being said, I find it hard to believe the writers would go this route. Not that it isn't a cool idea and wouldn't be intriguing to people like us, but you have to look at the rest of the people watching the show. How much of Lost's fanbase is comprised of people hanging on Charlie's every word and squeeeeeing whenever Charlie and Claire are on the screen together? Something tells me an idea like this would go right over many peoples' heads.

But, anything is possible I suppose. Keep up the good work man, Pin would be proud.

[JacksGirlfriend]

Something tells me an idea like this would go right over many peoples' heads.

WC: I'm not sure this matters. There are two groups: them and us.

The regular fans are watching to see the actors they love and just enjoying a bit of television. Most people are content to just take the action and the characters and have fun one hour a week. Those people ultimately don't care where this goes. Then of course there's us.

When the final episode airs, the first group will never even know there was a purpose beyond an action-packed hour of television. The idea that there have been theories and speculation will be lost on them. Explanations won't matter. If everything goes over their heads they won't even know it because they never cared to begin with. We, however, will care, which is why we're here and why I appreciate every effort of possible explanation.

I like Evan's idea because it just might work. And like I said, I think we're back to the beginning.

JacksGirl

[SecondBreakfast417]

How much of Lost's fanbase is comprised of people hanging on Charlie's every word and squeeeeeing whenever Charlie and Claire are on the screen together? Something tells me an idea like this would go right over many peoples' heads.

What? People who like Dom can't be smart?

[spooky]

I like this theory and I'm really glad you expounded on the probability idea. I had some similar thoughts when I first started watching, but I abandoned them thinking it would way to difficult for the writers to explain. But maybe not.

I also like the way you categorized the episodes in an earlier post. Great thinking.

[sexy baby mama]

I actually think I understand your theory!!! Weird!

But I can see how much this would make sense, with what we know of the show. I'm not sure I have anything of substance to add - Bravo!

JG - you're totally right - the other group of people won't care where it goes - but JJ and Damon are gonna take care of us, right? The LOYAL viewers?

[monkibenes]

It works for me, especially when you talk about the nature of knowledge and the cat in the box example. I don't think its chance that John Locke in the series shares the same name as the British philosopher who was the founder of empiricism.
Locke (the philosopher) believed a person consists of a stream of mental events linked by memory (i.e. all the castaway flashbacks in the episodes). Human knowledge of physical objects (the island, the polar bear, the casket, the monster, etc...) are always subjective to errors of senses so a person can not have absolute knowledge of the physical world so the characters or the viewers can never know if what they are seeing and experiencing is real or the truth.

Also, Locke agreed with the theory of tabula rasa (conveniently also the name of episode 3) which is the belief that the mind of a person at birth is a blank slate that must be shaped and must learn everything about the world through its experiences. This ties into the idea that all the castaways are now tabula rasa themselves--their previous lives, experiences, mistakes, ect are erased and they are starting brand new. This may also tie into the "Raised by another" theme--Claire's baby is definitely a blank slate. Locke was a proponent of "nurture" in the nature vs nurture debate. Locke thought that people were born basically good and had to be taught to do bad things. Raised by someone other than Claire, the child could be nurtured in the wrong direction and become an evil person.

[LoStMyMiNd]

Ok so how does this explain certain survivors being in the same flashbacks?

[NotWithoutStilts]

The island wishes to become the dominant reality for these people - by forcing choices on them and making itself into a reality. There is the possiblity that they will choose "correctly" but most of them don't realize this choice exists (Locke being an exception) And their knowledge of regular reality is interfering in the form of the monster and bears - fear and knowledge of a world they've already known outside of this other optional reality.

that's all in question form. I'm just trying to really grasp this.

[joepa15425]

Nice post. Sad thing is, I understand where you are coming from, and dammit, I'm too good looking for that.

[lachme]

evan- just a couple of questions/issues-

__________________________________________________
The theory doesn’t play favourites when it comes to possible worlds; the one we are in is just a result of random probability. Well, you know what, that sucks. It’s too much. We already feel majorly insignificant, telling us that there’s an effectively infinite number of “realities” out there just makes everything... well, pointless.
__________________________________________________

this is your reason for believing in a "dominant reality"? because the alternative sucks? that's not psuedo-science, that's religion; it's the same reason man invented god.


________________________________________________
Imainge, now, that possible quantum realities worked in the same way. They have to compete with each other for dominance. They don’t want to be on the shelf, dammit. They want to be in the projector.
________________________________________________

you are implying here that an entire UNIVERSE/REALITY has consciousness- and awareness of the consciousness of the other universe/realities. (they want, and they compete.) and the number of universe/realities would necessarily be infinite, wouldn't it? if a universe/reality has a consciousness, then that would be the "god" of that reality, wouldn't it? so we're talking an infinite number of gods, competing for dominance?

_________________________________________________
So.. what would make any one reality more likely to be dominant than any other? Well, since it is the observers (e.g. us) that very literally create the world around us (whether we realize it and can control it or not), an adaptive characteristic for a “reality” to have would be one which somehow catered to its observers (sort of like you guys want the show to do
_________________________________________________

if you haven't already read it, you should read robert heinlein's "the number of the beast" for a story about alternate realities and how they are imagined into being.

[SelfProjectRealized]

this is your reason for believing in a "dominant reality"? because the alternative sucks? that's not psuedo-science, that's religion; it's the same reason man invented god.

So, you're saying consideration of our instinctual feelings about something are a complete no man's land when it comes to enquiries into the nature of the world? Automatically, it becomes religion? The alternative does suck, yeah, but that wasn't the only reason for my "dominant reality" add-on. We're working here with complete speculation, complete theory, arguably complete bullshit. This isn't what I believe about the universe, it's just a way to make Lost sort of interesting. So, yeah, our instincts that this world is THE world should be allowed to be meaningful. ESPECIALLY when the whole many worlds theory in the first place was just put forward in response to another theory, which we don't even know to be fully correct. So, I think a big range of considerations, no matter how irrelevant some of it may seem, is fair game.

you are implying here that an entire UNIVERSE/REALITY has consciousness- and awareness of the consciousness of the other universe/realities. (they want, and they compete.) and the number of universe/realities would necessarily be infinite, wouldn't it? if a universe/reality has a consciousness, then that would be the "god" of that reality, wouldn't it? so we're talking an infinite number of gods, competing for dominance?

Yeah, I suppose consciousness is a decent analogy. I didn't mean it as a literal implication, though, just as a metaphor to make this stuff easier to imagine. Like if I was explaining gravity to a 6 year old and I said "Objects at all times want to be as close to the ground as possible, so that's why when you throw a ball up in the air, it comes back down". I don't actually wish to imply that a ball has propositional attitudes.

Also, the number wouldn't be infinite. No numbers are "infinite"; infinite is a conceptual thing, just meaning that, given any number, there exists one that is higher. You never actually reach it. So, the number would be HUGE, yeah, but not "infinite".

And I don't particularly like your God comparison. Natural selection in species works the same way. It's a natural process, not a conscious guiding. That insect has reflexes that makes it jump out of the way when it sees something in its vicinity; that one doesn't. The former survives for a long time; the latter doesn't and the species dies out. To apply this to quantum realities, I admit, is pretty ridiculous. It would NEVER fly with scientists, there's a little too much conceptual confusion and ill-definedness. But, like I said, this is meant as a theory to apply to a piece of text, not one that's based on real-world empiricism. It's pseudo-science, not science.

if you haven't already read it, you should read robert heinlein's "the number of the beast" for a story about alternate realities and how they are imagined into being

Thanks Lach! I'm always looking for good book recommendations.


And thanks for responding!

[SelfProjectRealized]

ODammet wrote:

Ok so how does this explain certain survivors being in the same flashbacks?

I guess it doesn't, but is that such a big mystery so far? They were all in Australia, and all going on the same plane. The only non-airport flashback that had more than one character in it was Sawyer showing up in Boone's. But, I don't know, will this actually be important for the mythology? If it turns out to be, I'm sure I'll think of something.

[lachme]

_________________________________________________
So, you're saying consideration of our instinctual feelings about something are a complete no man's land when it comes to enquiries into the nature of the world? Automatically, it becomes religion?
_________________________________________________


that's what i'm saying. belief without empirical evidence is faith, nothing more. theory is not belief; it's speculation, the considering of possibilities. however, in no way do i mean to imply that if it is faith, it is meaningless.

human beings see order everywhere, and look for order everywhere, from organizing a website and cleaning the kitchen to seeing a cloud shaped like a weasel or the face of jesus on a tortilla. in the face of chaos, we find order; and when we can't find it, we invent it. we invented god to give some order and meaning to our lives. the meanings we choose to attach to things are important to us.......but those meanings are not universal. so in this "dominant reality" where apparently wishing-makes-it-so, whose meanings take precedence? is it majority rule?

________________________________________________
Natural selection in species works the same way. It's a natural process, not a conscious guiding.
________________________________________________


you don't know that there is no "hand" guiding the process of natural selection. appearance does not make it so; after all, it "appears" that the sun rises and sets, does it not? the theory of natural selection is exactly that- a theory. granted, it passes occam's razor, making it the most likely reality- but as you pointed out earlier, probability is not the same as actuality. (don't mistake me for one of those "intelligent design" yahoos, though.)

i rank pseudo-science as more philosophy than anything else.

[Clementine Kruczynski]

Wow, that was one of the best theories I've read in a long time. There are a few loose ends to it, but I think it really could work. Thanks SPR!!

[SelfProjectRealized]

belief without empirical evidence is faith, nothing more. theory is not belief; it's speculation, the considering of possibilities.

Right... and I considered the possibility that agreed the best with my instincts about reality. Is that not still theorizing? I'm not saying I believe my theory to be true BECAUSE it agrees with my instincts. I'm not saying I believe it at all! The next step in this process would be to go out there and search for empirical evidence. Then, believing it would be justified and it would no longer require faith. And isn't that what always happens with all theoretical discoveries?

so in this "dominant reality" where apparently wishing-makes-it-so, whose meanings take precedence? is it majority rule?


Good question. You're assuming here that the reality can be altered by groups as well as individuals. You're absolutely right, that causes a major problem because different people feel different ways about the same things and how we attach meaning to pretty much anything is a completely individual process. But don't forget, this reality IS NOT yet dominant, it's still localized around the island. If it did become dominant, it's quite possible that it would fail to maintain that dominance for the very reason you describe: its weakness would be the failure to interpret all these contradictory feelings/beliefs from all of our individual interpretations.

But we're not at the point yet. Not even close.

On the show so far, we've only observed the "island reality" reacting to individuals' specific thoughts and so its reference point was the meaning to that specific individual that it was "relieving" at that particular point in time. The only exception to this is the monster, which, in my theory, was born out of the fear of all of the survivors.

Now... this is awesomely consistent. Because, we haven't seen the monster and neither have most of the islanders, and the ones who DO see it won't see it the same way (as stated by Paul Dini). So, in this one extremely rare case, most everyone DID feel the same emotion - fear (the very notable exception being Locke). There was enough agreement to bring the monster into existence. But the individual meanings, the subjective details of that fear are different, hence why we and most of the characters haven't or possibly can't see it.

you don't know that there is no "hand" guiding the process of natural selection.

Yeah, no kidding, but... that's fine. Either there is a hand guiding or there isn't, but as long as there doesn't have to be, then, since this is my theory, it's pretty much up to me, and I stand by my response to your consciousness/God point.

the theory of natural selection is exactly that- a theory

Agreed. That's why in my original post, I stated that I was assuming it to be true. If it was "proven", then I wouldn't have had to assume at all.

i rank pseudo-science as more philosophy than anything else.

Since I was a philosophy major, it's not a big surprise that my writings come across as philosophy. But I agree with you. By definition, it can't be science (yet) so it has to be something... and philosophy is as good a word as any.

But... did you mean this as a critique of it? Your use of the term "rank" suggests a hierarchy. Is science "above" philosophy in your opinion?

[NeillT006]

Self:

Although I admire how well your formulation is conceived, and the compelling character of your arguments, there are things that bother me. I want to talk about one of them now.

From your explanation, I understand you to be saying that the competing reality has by virtue of a mutation gained a possible competitive advantage in hosting a reality having as its differentiating characteristic the ability to cater to the will of any resident consciousness learning the trick of quantum manipulation.

The question of “mutation” troubles me. While it is usually sufficient to think of the idea of “mutation” as connoting an unpredictable “wild card,” I do not think this can be true in your approach. While the collapsing superposition may ultimately lead to one of several states, no state will manifest from the superposition unless it minimally had some probability of existence with which to begin. Thus, maybe a “mutation” can be described as the realization of a low probability state: i.e., unlikely, but possible. But not a bolt from the blue having no precedential ties to the probabilities of possible outcomes.

If so, and proceeding from the idea that all probabilities manifest as a result of each collapse event (some merely to go “on the shelf”), then it seems to me to follow that this “mutation” would have existed from the time of the first collapse (yes, that one). And if it did, then its competitive advantage would have long ago have been tested and either found wanting, leading inexorably to extinction , or found successful, and it would already have assumed the niche as the preferred version on the reality kinescope.

Now I guess that one answer to this is that universes do not exist subject to the same rules as their contained realities. But that just seems to be another way of saying that the micro has no relevance to the macro, which plays heck with the plot device you put forward. And, I note that you have already assumed that at least one other law of the contained universe (Darwinian driven evolution) is at play in existence at the multi-universe level, so there is at least some evidence upon which to expect that others would be as well.

Another answer may be that not until now in the history of the universe have the conditions been ripe for the success of the mutation. Human consciousness is, after all, a very recent event. But, the trouble I have with this is that is that I don’t think that the quantum phenomena you describe require observation by a self aware observer. Maybe I am wrong. This is far a field for me. In any event, the existence of animal life has a history going back many millions of years. Even assuming that this life has been not self aware until you and me, it certainly has been observant, and has had needs. So, where was the caterer? And even if self awareness is required to trigger the latent benefit of the mutation, are you ready to assume that there has been no other self aware life in the universe, any place, any time? If not, then I think the analysis returns to the extinct/domination branch.

Thanks for provoking thought.

N.

[Mysterious Jazz Man]

This is all exceptionally good and interesting and I think I understand the most of it (even thought this is a bit too much pusedo-science for me, I m more of a psychological type). Anyway I was wondering, how do the hatch, the numbers and the cable fit in to the picture? Is the hatch some sort of connection between different realties maybe? I have read most of the post on this thread and I haven’t seen this question being brought up before so I hope you don’t need to answer the same question twice. Anyway a really great thread.

[lacenaire]

I don't remember who was the original poster, please say so if you do so the moderators can adscribe this post to the original publisher.
The title was, I think, "Quantum Interconnectedness".
Here...

I took a study break and thought I would follow up on a lead. I was trying to find a way to reconcile most theories out there without departing to much from rationalism. (See post on Richard Sawyer). I saw several themes: Time/Space (Wormholes, Tesseracts), Religion (creationism, hebrew letters, purgatory), Mathmatics (Fibonacci numbers, Numerology) and such. I found a few articles an trimmed them down. It is still a long read but may provide a unified overall guiding principle based in reality, kinda (not to far fetched). It does not provide any answers, but some striking coincidences (Lockes legs and seeing the eye, conflict on the island [i.e. beach v. caves, inner conflict, reconciling the past], everyone meeting in the past [sense of connectedness], the noises, the monster, the light and more). Interestingly, Charles Howard Hinton (Charlie) first conceived of a tesseract. I am sure more connections can be made. The theory is harmonic convergence discussed in the "The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot. Hope you enjoy. Off to study for evidence. Talk more wednesday.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quantum Interconnectedness has received some attention in the last decades; physicists have come to realize that the universe is interconnected in much subtler ways than had once thought. In quantum physics the observer and the observed can no longer be separated and the whole is more fundamental that the part.

The mathematical principles of this "new" science may help explain and recognize consciousness as a fundamental part of reality. When we have a narrow perception of reality it creates illusionary lines of separation. This separation transverses from personal, societal, cultural and expanding into the world. The interconnectedness of the parts of the whole allows us to realize our oneness with all things.
Albert Einstein, with his general theory of relativity, opened the doors of science along with the mystical realities. Einstein theorized that space and time are intertwined and that matter is inseparable from an ever-present quantum energy field and this is the sole reality underlying all appearances. This theory challenged the basic assumptions about the universe and what it contained.

Physicists found that the most basic atomic particles in the cosmos comprise the very fabric of the material universe. An electron, for example, can be shown to be both a wave and a particle depending on the observer's perspective.

Physicist David Bohm, in his plasma experiments, at the Berkeley Radiation Laboratory, Bohm found that individual electrons act as part of an interconnected whole. In plasma, the gaseous electrons more or less assume the nature of a self-regulating organism, as if they were inherently intelligent.

This scientific discovery of Non-Locality, the wave/particle duality, meant that everything is joined or connected together. Space and time is composed of the same essence as matter. Bohm found this to be a conscious atomic sea and extending out from this sub-atomic reality, all of material creation may also be said to be conscious. Since all matter and events interact with each other, time (past, present, future) along with space and distance, all is relative to the observer and operate as one under the law of Non-Locality.

"A principle related to nonlocality is called Bell's Theorem. This is a quantum physics law that says that once connected, objects affect one another forever no matter where they are. Following the principle of Bell's Theorem,...an invisible stream of energy will always connect any two objects that have been connected in any way in the past."

This meant that everything is connected to everything else and that physical reality is BOTH waves and a particles. This model birthed the "holographic universe" idea, the powerful conscious energy that the whole can invariably be found in the tiniest particles: an atom of a blade of grass to the most distance galaxies. The building blocks of atoms are merely, "parcels of compressed energy, packed and patterned according to certain mathematical formulae."

The Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Program at Princeton University, investigates quantum concepts such as the principles of complementarity. The action in one system can effect the actions of another system at a quantum energetic level, free of the limits of time and space, and wave mechanical resonance, matter and energy exchanging manifestations as vibrating waves and particles(excerpts from the Heart's Code) Matter and Energy are two poles of the same unity. Shamans and Mystics call this Oneness or Interconnectedness.
Michael Talbot, in "The Holographic Universe", describes all of material creation as a "ripple...a pattern of excitation in the midst of an unimaginably vast ocean" and "despite its apparent materiality and enormous size, the universe does not exist in and of itself, but is the stepchild of something far vaster and more ineffable." Talbot’s conceptualizes Bohm’s work as our “almost universal tendency to fragment the world and ignore the dynamic interconnectedness of all things is responsible for many of our problems...we believe we can extract the valuable parts of the earth without affecting the whole...treat parts of our body and not be concerned with the whole...deal with...crime, poverty, and drug addiction without addressing... society as a whole."

The Kaluza-Klein Theory was the first theory of higher dimensions. It simply states the gravity in which light could be explained as 5th dimensional vibrations. This evolved into "Supergravity Theory" which then led physicists to the "Superstring Theory." Also, in Hyperspace, "physicists...are now seriously studying multiply connected worlds as a practical model of our universe." Theoretical physicists demonstrate parallel universes by two parallel planes connected by a tube/wormhole which has time/space travel implications. Superstring theory also assumes there are an infinite and alternate series of parallel universes that exist. This can be thought of as layers of pages in a ream of paper, each layer connected by a dimensional "tube.”
George Bernhard Rieman first laid the mathematical foundation of geometries in higher dimensional space, birthing the idea of a "simultaneous 4th Dimension.” He claimed universes are "completely self-consistent and obey their own logic." The unity of all physical laws appears simple when expressed in higher dimensional space. In an attempt to visual this higher dimensions, Charles Howard Hinton mathematically conceptualized the ability to "see" four dimensional objects which he deemed the hypercube, a tesseract: a hypercube that has been unraveled and viewable in the 3rd dimension.

The importance and significance of mathematics and the profound role we have come to understand within nature can also be found in the Fibonacci numbers. This logarithmic series of numbers demonstrates the occurrence of many analogous spiral forms in nature. This underlies fractal mathematics and allows imaging of our natural world. Fibonacci shapes are found in the shape of galaxies, the nautilus shell and the double helix of the DNA molecule to name a few.

The "Unification Theory" is built on the fundamental knowledge of physics, the oneness and interrelationship and nature: ecologically, individually and the whole world. The knowledge of this system and its dynamic capacity to survive, grow and transform in relation to the other dynamic systems is most profound. The theory encompasses all living and non-living systems that exist, which parallels the particle and wave duality and its coexistence within the whole universal system of operation. Countless mathematicians, physicists, philosophers and religious thinkers have attempted throughout the ages to find the one thing that can tie all things together.

The topic of physics and consciousness is becoming more well renowned by physicists. In the Spring of 2003, the Quantum Mind Conference on "Consciousness, Quantum Physics and The Brain" was held Arizona, USA. Their web site states, "recent experimental evidence suggests quantum nonlocality occurring in conscious and subconscious brain function, and functional quantum processes in molecular biology are becoming more and more apparent. Moreover macroscopic quantum processes are being proposed as intrinsic features in cosmology, evolution and social interactions."

Perhaps in knowing we are all a part of this Non-Locality, or Oneness, we can make strides to improve out society, our nation and our world. Since all natural phenomenon are ultimately interconnected, and in order to explain any one of them we need to understand all the others, which is obviously impossible. However, science has formulated the Bootstrap Theory - "The bootstrap philosophy represents the culmination of a view of nature that arose in quantum theory with the realization of an essential and universal interrelationship." The "interdependence of all things" can be found in many spiritual traditions.
"The Tao gives birth to One.
One gives birth to yin and yang.
Yin and yang give birth to all things...
The complete whole is the complete whole.
So also is any part the complete whole...
But forget about understanding and harmonizing and
making all things one. The universe is already a
harmonious oneness; just realize it."
(46 The Hua Hu Ching)

In the "Secrets of Hebrew Letters, the "letter sequence of B'reshit (the Hebrew text of Genesis), a text which underlies and is held in common by the spiritual traditions of the ancient world. This metaphor models embryonic growth and self-organization. It applies to all whole systems, including those as seemingly diverse as meditational practices and the mathematics fundamental to physics and cosmology." and "represent fundamental directions in a hyperdimensional space." By fusing mathematics and Jewish mysticism, physicists, have demonstrated that the first verse of Genesis in the Hebrew Bible generates a mathematical Torus. The letter forms themselves have intrinsic geometric and mathematical properties that point us to a profound knowledge of life and the nature of human consciousness. (In some other cultures and ancient histories, Hebrew was and is regarded as the Language of Light because of it's mathematical properties.)

"The Tao of Physics" is a book filled with incredible information regarding scientific concepts paired with consciousness in the practice of Buddhism and Hinduism. Some of the chapters in the book are: The Unity of All Things, Space-Time, Quark Symmetries and Interpenetration. In the last mentioned chapter Capra writes, "the universe is seen as a dynamic web of interrelated events…they all follow from the properties of the other parts and the overall consistency of their mutual interrelations determines the structure of the entire web." An amazing parallel to the above statement can be found in Chief Seattle's wisdom of "Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect."

A grain of sand, a star, water drop or a person, a proton of a hydrogen molecule is the same regardless of form. The only difference is the way the materials are organized and their "consciousness" properties. According to Bohm's idea stated previously, "conscious atomic sea...extending out from this sub-atomic reality, all of material creation may also be said to be conscious." When we honor the physical things and become mindful of the unity in all things this imparts respects and honor to the Earth.

"To know the mechanics of the wave is to know the entire secret of Nature."
Walter Russell
The psychodynamics of the mind as an electromagnetic structure establishes the nature and reality of consciousness as an interdimensional energy process. It is an electrical process of cause and effect.

Consciousness determines our vibration (frequency and amplitude). When we realize that time and space are really one, we then go beyond a simple understanding. This is what Einstein was talking about concerning frequency (time) and amplitude (energy)...and time traveling, this would mean being spiritually energized to walk in the 4th dimension freely. Physics states the 4th dimension exists (subsequently physicist say 10 dimensions exist that they have mathematically figured so far), we can thus apply it to other spiritual areas as in various mysticism practices.

When our energy-amplitude is raised higher it is synonymous with our frequency (time) getting higher. When our frequency raises the distance between the waves are closer, therefore shortening time considerably. So Time is the distance between two points. What your amplitude-energy is determines how efficient you travel that time line.

For instance, You are standing by me...you raise your energy, which raises your frequency [if you are efficient at it {efficient in science is least amount of work for the energy expended)]. You dart across the room and come back to standing by me. I do not see you - except for the transition period of your energy …you coming and going. You might look like a fuzz of light at first..(dart across the room and come back) then a fuzz of light again. This is all that would be noticeable. Or perhaps if one is in movement while this energy transition is taking place, we may observe a "blurring" and see many different phases as in seen in someone taking consecutive pictures of a track and field long jumper. The realities are "blurred" together, and as physics states, can be seen in the multiple dimensions at once.

This parallels the concept of the Superstring theory which assumes there are an infinite and alternate series of parallel universes that exist. The viewpoint of many theoretical physicists: light is a vibration of the unseen 4th dimension. What is light? Light, electricity, and magnetism are manifestations of the same thing called electromagnetic radiation that encompasses the electromagnetic spectrum in which only a small fraction of light is visible to us. When we do the "dart across the room" experiment, only the small visible light will be seen as a fraction of the whole energetic transition.

When we resonate as in the above example, it can also be viewed as "musical notes" that represents a mode of vibration, a distinct resonance or particle. Michio Kaku a physicist and author of "Hyperspace" states, "Matter is nothing but the harmonies created by this vibrating string...The laws of physics can be compared to the laws of harmony allowed on the string. The universe itself, composed of countless vibrating strings, would then be comparable to a symphony."
"The energy of the heart, right down to our DNA is musical and rhythmic in nature. Geneticist, Susumu Ohno at the Beckman Research Institute of the City of Hope in Duarte, CA, has translated the 4 nucleotides on the strands of DNA. When performed, listeners compared it to Bach, Brahms and Chopin. Listeners were moved to tears."
"The universe consists solely of waves of motion...There exists nothing other than vibration." relates Walter Russell in "A New Concept of the Universe". In vibratory physics, the principles that make sound into harmonious music are the same principles that govern all associating vibrations throughout the universe - and that includes everything that there is. Vibrations are dynamic things not unlike "living" things since they are in a mutual state of harmony.

When sound harmonics form direct harmonic relations the two vibrating sounds and their chords of vibration are said to be sympathetic to each other. In other words, resonance - like attracts like. This combined frequency dictates that what happens to one vibratorily happens to the other simultaneously in varying degrees of harmony or dissonance. This is the Law of Cycles as presented by John W. Keely's Law of Sympathetic Vibratory Physics.
Musical notes or sounds can be converted numerically as stated previously regarding the Fibonacci numbers found in nature. According to mathematics principles, a series of vibrations will multiply many times its own pitch, thus increasing harmonically all those that are near. This is the Law of Harmonic Pitch.

This multiplication of frequency and amplitudes is thought of in relation to the Ascension process. All things are energy, thus our "energy bodies" are becoming more attuned, reaching a higher vibrational rate, to the dynamic energetic force of the Universe. Extending and expanding vibrational rates happens in nature and we are merely a part of nature, so we should too, in theory, be capable of "ascension" as dense physical material beings.

"He made the whole world an instrument of sound, and an instrument for carrying messages, resounding praise to the Creator of all.
Frank Waters - The Book of the Hopi
There is something called the Sacred Sound Current which correlates to the spiritual Hindu "OM" and the Sufi "HU", and the Sant Mat "Shabd". This Music of the Spheres, Logos or Word as called in mystical teachings, goes beyond our limited spoken language. Such ethereal music is referred to also as the Sound of God or the Breath of God since the sound permeates all things. And as we know, all things are composed of energy.

This all pervading sound in the current of the Ocean of Consciousness is believed to be the connecting link between God and man. The divine currents are always playing a symphony of ethereal music, however, it does not become audible until we have progressed spiritually enough to hear with the inner ear. Additionally, many mystics, ancient and modern, have reported seeing various colors with the inner eye(s) while in meditation.

As physics deems, all is in a vibrational state, and thus can be converted into mathematical renditions, musical notes and color frequencies. Shabd is believed to be the pinnacle point of all the powers of nature in which, according to scriptures, is the method in which God creates.
"I dwell in undefiled Light and a Thought revealed itself perceptibly through the great Sound...And it is a Word by virtue of the Sound; it was sent to illumine those who dwell in darkness...I am a Light that illuminates the All. I am the Light..."
Trimorphic Protennoia - Nag Hammadi
Light and Sound is also viewed as synonymous with each other in the ancient scriptures. This has been mentioned in various contexts within this site as well. They are Interconnected and part of the Whole within the wave/particle duality.

We can parallel the holographic universe concept with what Philo of Alexandria's wrote circa 40 CE, "The whole creation, this entire world perceived by our senses is a copy of the Divine Image...But the shadow of God is his Word which he used like an instrument when he was making the world. And this shadow, and, as it were, model, is the archetype of other things" We can also note the similarity to Carl Jung's archetypes within the collective unconscious.
"The musician is very close to mysticism, far closer than the philosopher...because music is meaningful without any words; it is meaningful simply because it rings some bells in your heart...creates a synchronicity between you and itself, when your heart starts resonating in the same way, when you start pulsating in the same way."
Osho, Philosophia Ultima
There are known quantitative frequencies that have been measured that illustrate the body and energy connections with comparative measurements to the world around us, such as radio waves. Biological systems are influenced by the terrestrial electrical environment. This environment includes electric fields, magnetic fields, field modulations, and aerion (positive and negative) concentrations, and biological waves. Nature ordains harmonious variations of these factors. The human organism exhibits revealing electrical characteristics. Electromagnetic brain waves (0.1 to 30hz) occur at frequencies paralleling those of terrestrial sferics and the Schuman resonance. Decision making abilities are subordinate to alpha, beta, gamma(.01-5hz), theta(4 - 7hz), and delta(0.1-4hz) brain rhythms with their related states of consciousness. Symposium on Biological Effects and Measurement of Biofrequency/Microwaves, Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, FDA - Critical Aspects of Human Versus Terrestrial Electromagnetic Symbiosis, E. Stanton Maxey, M.D. , 1977
Thus far, all life, coexisting together at the same time, is both matter and space: movement and stillness, sound and silence, light and darkness. As stated earlier, the wave/particle duality (Non-Locality) means that everything is joined or connected together. This duality also means that objects that appear to have seemingly opposite properties that are of the same substance but in a different form or density of a vibrational level.

It is believed that Earth in what is deemed as a "free will zone" the ongoing battle between the positive and negative forces, the dark vs. light. Scientifically speaking, there is no difference, just differences in frequencies and amplitudes. Simplistically speaking, we are all one.
"light and shade, long and short, black and white, can only be experienced in relation to each other; light is not independent of shade, nor black of white. There are no opposites, only relationships."
Lankavatara Sutra From "Buddha Speaks"
Anne Bancroft 2000

Another example of this polarity principle is found in sound harmonics. Fields may be enharmonic on one level but harmonic on different levels. Enharmonic would be like plucking a guitar string and allowing it to vibrate freely. The sound and the frequencies of the corresponding vibration are no longer exactly in the same frequency ratio. Harmonics, is the vibration multiples of the same frequency. The Taoists also viewed the dynamic interplay between the polar opposites as yin and yang. This pair of opposites shares a polar relationship where the two poles are dynamically linked to the other and found throughout nature.

This idea of implicit unity of all opposites can be extremely difficult to accept. However paradoxical it may seem to some, Eastern philosophies have always considered this as essential for attaining enlightenment to go 'beyond earthly opposites,' and in China the polar relationship of all opposites lies at the very basis of Taoist thought. In the Tao of Physics, "Thus Chuang Tzu says, "this" is also "that." This ancient wisdom of duality is the essence of the Tao. It also appears to be the essence of physics.

"Every explicit duality is an implicit unity."
Alan Watts
Heraclitus the Greek philosopher also realized that all opposites have a unity and relativity. "The way up and down is one and the same," and "God is day night, winter summer, war peace, satiety hunger." Science and religion also represent a complimentary pair of polar opposites residing within a highly complex paradox. If we view these opposites as the ends of the light spectrum, we have a diverse range of human culture and ideals. The full magnitude of the paradox disappears in the light of diverse duality.
"Life starts with the knowledge of diversity, but the awareness of unity is the pinnacle of life."
Hazrat Inayat Khan

The Kybalion encompasses the study of "The Hermetic Philosophy of Ancient Egypt and Greece.” This is considered as the life work of Hermes Trismegistus who was considered to be the "scribe of the gods.” This Greco-Egyptian philosopher and mathematician reportedly had written tens of thousands of volumes of books revealing to humankind the healing arts, magic, writing, astrology, science, chemistry and philosophy. This was a time of unity between the scientific and religious studies.

Hermes also built several pyramids and reportedly even taught the great mathematician Pythagoras. Oddly enough, Hermes is considered the "Great Central Sun of Occultism.” Perhaps Hermes was the living embodiment of duality as he inscribed some of the earliest accounts of the secret of the ultimate reconciliation between the meta-physical science and religion. His wisdom follows in excerpts from the Kybalion. The parallels to "modern" thinking are astounding. "Everything is Dual; everything has poles; everything has its pair of opposites; like and unlike are the same; opposites are identical in nature, but different in degree; extremes meet; all truths are but half-truths; all paradoxes may be reconciled." By looking carefully at the nature of opposites, we might realize that each pole actually incorporates its opposite, in one form or another - as an essential component of the whole.
"To understand the whole it is necessary to understand the parts. To understand the parts, it is necessary to understand the whole. Such is the circle of understanding."
Ken Wilber, Eye of Spirit


"I see science and mysticism as two complementary manifestations of the human mind; of its rational and intuitive faculties."
Fritjof Capra - The Toa of Physics.

"Shamanism" is basically the practise of contacting the "spirit world" and doing work on the dimensional and/or on a soul level. This could encompass many methods and modes of doing such. Shamans/Healers have been the corner stone of many spiritual traditions throughout the world. The roots of these ancient Healers and Priests regarded the soul and consciousness as a part of the whole cosmos. The shamanistic concept of "journeying" could be explained by as traveling through space and time dimensions to heal the soul and the person or many various other reasons depending on the culture of that healer. For many healer/shamans multidimensional traveling is a way of life. There is no distinct separation.

Science has also come to explain how "magic" of the shamans operates to some degree. A scandalous trial in London in 1877, grabbed the attention of many notable physicists. Henry Slade, a psychic from the United States, was charged with fraudulent activity. What marked this normally mundane trial of trickery is that physicists and astronomers around the world, some who won the Nobel Prize in physics, came to Slade's defense. These scientists claimed "miraculous feats" could be done by manipulating objects in the 4th dimension. Eventually, Henry Slade was convicted despite the help he received.

This other worldly ability is something shamans have been to known to do, either alter something in the physical or manifest something from "thin air.” Physicists are coming close to explaining the science of the shaman. The well known tenet in shamanism is the "axis mundi", the transcendental center of the worlds, designates "parallel world realities within a single universe", coexisting on each side of the "axis mundi" the axis by which our world is brought into communication with the upper and lower worlds. In "The Nature of Shamanism" it states, "Uniformities of forms do appear to exist in our empirical universe which transgress the quanta of the human mind...falling into the domain of the Jungian 'collective unconsciousness'". By invoking modern physics, we can say, together with many a shaman, that all reality is only a continuum of the same spectrum. Put another way, reality is always in a state of Being or Existing.
"Magic is any sufficiently advanced technology."
Arthur C. Clarke
The generally accepted theory of light up until the mid 1800's, was Newton's assertion of light to be a stream of tiny particles. However, in the late 1800's, the particle picture was replaced by the wave theory of light due to the phenomena associated with light: refraction, diffraction and interference, which could only be explained using the wave picture.

This electromagnetic radiation, or light, may be viewed in one of two complementary ways: as a wave in an abstract electromagnetic field, or as a stream of massless particles called photons. This is known as the wave - particle duality and is true for all particles. This duality is the basis of a indisputable quantum law in which it is a thread that runs throughout the micro and macrocosm.

Light as a wave, has a wavelength associated with it, much like an ocean wave with crests and troughs. The frequency of light is measured by counting the number of waves passing one point at a given time. The energy is merely the strength or force the wave carries. Since all things have an energetic duality we can convert and apply this to the DNA and RNA molecules which they in fact emit their own light/energy. Science shows this and mystics spanning many beliefs and philosophies throughout history speak of this wisdom in terms of The Language of Light.

Enoch the patriarch of the Bible speaks of this language of light as waveform geometries of harmonic resonance that mimic the properties of light. The Enochian knowledge describes sonic equations, encoded within the ancient mantras and god names, capable of directly affecting the nervous system and producing profound effects of healing and higher consciousness states. The Divine Light and Kingdom of Light references can be found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Nag Hammadi, Pistis Sophia and among the various other Egyptian, Persian and Syrian writings. The returning to the light from which we came, this merging of the light within ourselves with the Divine, is what the great Eastern Orthodox mystics called, Theosis, others call it Christ Consciousness, Nirvana, Bliss, Oneness, and Enlightenment.

The renowned yogi, Yogananda describes the universe beyond matter as being composed of indescribably subtle Light and that the material universe is composed of all the same essence. In describing a state of ecstatic joy he says, "A swelling glory within me began to envelop towns, continents, the earth, solar and stellar systems, tenuous nebulae, and floating universes...The entire cosmos...glittered within the infinitude of my being." According to yoga principles this is called Oneness with Supreme Consciousness, Ultimate Being, or God. In modern physics, this could be described as Non-Locality in the atomic sea. The yogic science, practiced within the laboratory of human consciousness, is, in fact, the science of consciousness, which physicists such as Bohm theorize as being inseparable from, and responsible for, all reality. The more we raise our vibrational levels, the more of this language we 'speak'. Since everything in the universe emits energy we are harmonizing ourselves into resonating with the universe around us. As we progress spiritually we become vibrationally altered or become "light bodied". Thus we have the aptly named physical ascension. "Light Knowledge" is also deemed the knowledge of God that seems to be a universal truth throughout the belief systems of the world. In several ancient writings Light is synonymous and equal to the dimensions and levels of Love. The differences in electromagnetic light can also be paralleled to the differences and levels of Love. Ultimately, Light is Love and all operates as One. It is beautifully ironic that the duality of light properties seems to unlock a vast door to scientific universal principles in which the mystics and shamans have always understood.


Carl Jung made significant progress in his theories of the soul and shamanism, on many levels. This psychologist's work on the deep aspects of the soul dawned a new age for scientific and religious thinkers. Carl Jung's depth in understanding the self and realms therein parallels the knowledge and characteristics of shamanism. With this understanding, Jung felt that no causal connection can be demonstrated between two events, but a meaningful relationship nevertheless exists between them. This direct encounter with the patterning of events in nature as a whole reveals the meaningful connections between the subjective and objective world. Jung called this principle of meaningful coincidences: "synchronicity.”

Jung describes in his research into the collective unconscious that coincidences were connected in meaningful ways. Their occurrence seemed to defy the calculations of probability. Because Jung believed the phenomenon of synchronicity was connected to psychotic conditions, he felt the inner and outer realities (subjective and objective) evolved through the archetypes. Jung formulated that these archetypal images belonged to a part of the unconscious not derived from personal experience. The archetypal images forms the "collective unconscious". This collective is all things working in tandem indicating 'singleness of purpose', in this case, our very totality of consciousness vibrating and working as one coherent mass of energy. We can also see archetypal images or symbols as energetic structures that create a bridge between us and the higher realities. In some unintelligible way, they connect us with the spiritual realms and the divine order that unites us all. Archetypes thus become a doorway that provides access to the experience of meaningful coincidence.

Jung's concept of synchronicity speaks of the "oneness" and interdependence of the universe. Jung states, "peculiar interdependence of objective elements among themselves as well as with the subjective (psychic) states of the observer or observers". Jung was also heavily influenced by the "new" physics dawning which he wrote, "Physics has demonstrated...that in the realm of atomic magnitudes objective reality presupposes an observer, and that only on this condition is a satisfactory scheme of explanation possible...This means that a subjective element attaches to the physicist's world picture, and secondly that a connection necessarily exists between the psyche to be explained and the objective space-time continuum." These discoveries confirmed what Jung recognized intuitively: that matter and consciousness are, in fact, interconnected in an essential way. Quantum theory and synchronous events along with matter and consciousness function as complementary aspects of a unified total reality.

Ascension simply means to rise up. An ascension experience is a period of time in which your material body raises to a higher state. It is nothing new as others throughout time have experienced, perhaps what is new about 'this time' is that it is happening to people 'en mass' contributing to a greater spiritual awakening of consciousness. Again, one highly energetic body has a tendency to raise all those in the vicinity. Our physical body is actually becoming a different frequency (component of) light as we go from a more material body to a more refined light body. This is a physics principle in action.

The Ascension places you in the midst of universal secrets hidden from veiled eyes thus the more important your wisdom and power become. As we become more interdimensional and multidimensional "the frequencies alter and the energies accelerate, your body goes through a drastic rapid change that the nervous system must handle.” Some signs and symptoms reported are: rejuvenated organs, hot/cold flashes, massive dizziness, change of diet, excessive tiredness, skin, hair and eyes changing, increase of aches and pains, increased psychic and kundalini activity etc. Many have read and/or experienced such (and continue to do so).

Ascension appears to be a biological reality; there's an evolution of species occurring on this planet, as well as an evolution of consciousness. Many sensitive and attuned individuals feel and see the change happening within them it and subsequently receive the same Spirit messages from the cosmic grid of consciousness, or as Jung termed it the "collective unconscious.”

This metamorphosis includes very specific biological and biochemical changes in your DNA, cells, blood, endocrine system and brain also thus affecting the energy of the body throughout the dimensional planes. These changes are all taking place on a subatomic molecular level. Dr. Berrenda Fox provides evidence of DNA and cellular changes and has given "ample" proof through blood tests that some people have actually developed new strands of DNA. Mutations and molecular changes are happening.

We've also all heard in spiritual circles of the harmonic convergences and light grid activations, "time for the consciousness of mankind to make a quantum shift to the next level of experience". These shifts and activations are merely the harmonizing of those atomic pieces that make up the whole. The cosmic ocean, as it’s called throughout the world, generates cosmic waves of energy. The ocean consisting of our thoughts, feelings, emotions and intents, love, hate, anger etc. ride upon and make up, these waves, which in one way can be compared to the 'quantum foam'. The "Harmonic Convergence" is a quantum event. We cannot discount that this is really happening on a level we can't physically-visibly see. According to physics principles, this affects every other single organism in the universe and on earth.

"..dropping polarity - no longer thinking in terms of good or bad, but seeing the wholeness and completion and perfection of life. It is a very definite mind, emotional and body response. The body response is the one where your body simply does not acknowledge good or bad, but sees that there is a higher purpose behind it all."
Drunvalo Melchizedek on dna changes and activation
"UC Davis experts on basic DNA research Since 1953, DNA research has had an impact on everything from biology, agriculture and medicine to criminal law and justice, art and politics." DNA structure is more than a double helix. "The famous double helix is actually supported by many different proteins that allow it to be read, copied and repaired. Working out what those proteins are and how they work together is the aim of the Center for Genetics and Development, led by Stephen Kowalczykowski, professor of microbiology and molecular cell biology. Kowalczykowski's own laboratory studies the family of proteins that allow DNA strands to cross over and recombine, creating genetic variation."

The 3 billion base pairs in the human genome are organized into 24 distinct, physically separate microscopic units called chromosomes. The total genetic information, within these structures, is a sequence of over 6 billion base pairs or 12 billion "letters." That makes up only 3% of what is known, another 97% remains unknown to conventional science. We can apply the concept of frequency and vibration to the body and its cells as physics dictates. We can also study the body and its building blocks and infer the same information applies to DNA.

As in the previously mentioned Fibonacci numbers, DNA and the body can be converted to mathematical physio-musical signals as well. Professor Susumu Ohno of the Beckman Research Institute of the City of Hope, proposed years ago that the repetition process governs both the musical composition and the DNA sequence construction. The body creates music through brain waves, the heartbeat, blood circulation, endocrine cycles, right up to the microwave level of organ vibration. DNA is the "orchestrator" of this music.

Molecular biologists have defined 20 proteins in the body which they have been able to look at music and read the exact sequence of bases in the DNA. One part of the DNA structure when "played" from the sequences sounds like a waltz melody, another sounds similar to an Irish jig, with a definite beginning, a middle, and an end. Oddly enough, the base sequence T-T-T-C-C-C-C-C-C-, when played, are the famous opening notes of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony.

"It (the music) is produced from the primary and secondary structure of protein sequences...pitch is determined by amino acid identity and instrumentation is chosen according to protein folding pattern, with different instruments representing regions of alpha-helix, beta-strands and turns."
"We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make our world."
Buddha
Thought is a great dynamic force with tremendous power. A simple atom radiates an electromagnetic field or EMF. A molecule radiates yet a stronger EMF. A large number of molecules form a cell in which the human brain contains at least 200 million such cells. These atomic waves seem to include the emotions and are thought to be superimposed within the EMF frequencies. These vibrations are sent out into the physical world extending outward into the "non-physical" world. The historian Arthur Koestler refers to this as the capacity of the human psyche to "act as a cosmic resonator.” Thoughts and emotions happen as a result of your interactions with the world based on your perception of past experiences. It is how you perceive this world of events that form our thought processes that become reactions and behaviors, unconsciously or consciously. Your thoughts create your feelings, emotions, behavior and what you attract and magnetize into your life.

Emotion is the fuel of creation...... "everything you dwell upon in your mind and heart, everything that you believe in, is drawn into physical manifestation. This is happening more and more quickly. As the masters have advised you for thousands of years, the very fabric of space/time that makes up the world is composed of threads and we can/are collectively changing it and bending it to the will of a love-centered reality. Not only an emotion, love is a genuine power in and of itself. The world isn't set in "physical laws" or "immutable constants" it is ever changing, every fluctuating and we do change that with the tiniest thought.
"The human brain being formed of an inestimable number of spherical resonators, termed in medical science nerve cells, forming the gray matter of the brain, these minute spheres take up the thought force which permeates all space in endless waves, eternally active. This force we term atomolic; the cells are composed of *atomoles, whose vibratory motions under the action of universal thought force result in the phenomena of thought, cognition, intellection, etc.

A physics theory that was predicted in 1925, that resulted in the ever popular example of superconductivity in 1995, is The Bose-Einstein condensation. This condensation is viewed as the most highly ordered structures in nature. This property is equivalent to a laser but the particles behave as a single particle and seem to possess a form of free will. The energies merge to become part of the whole. The Bose-Einstein condensate was later applied to living tissues and the results were astonishing for quantifying human consciousness.

In 1989 the British psychiatrist Ian Marshall, showed whenever the condensate in the brain is excited by an electrical field, conscious experience occurs. In his studies, the millions of neurons in the brain would maintain coherent thought processes, the neurons working as one structure. In other studies, it has also been determined by the encephalograph that all reasoning processes are actual waveform transmissions. Additionally, quantum wave function of the brain is not completely random and seems to have a "phase difference" which implies the parallels of mind and body to the duality of the wave and particle. The wave aspect of nature yields the mental, the particle aspect of nature yields the material.

Nobel Prize winner Ilya Prigione of the University of Texas is studying the "spontaneous formation of coherent structures," how chemical and other kinds of structures evolve patterns out of chaos. Karl Pribram, a neuroscientist at Stanford University, has proposed that the brain may be a type of "hologram.” He theorizes the brain is a pattern and frequency analyzer which creates reality by interpreting frequencies from beyond space and time dimensions. On the basis of this model, the physical world "out there," is, in Pribram's words, "isomorphic with"--that, the same as, the processes of the brain.

The matrix grid of consciousness, Jung's collective unconscious, is the nervous system for the earth, our thoughts effect this system and everything contained therein. The universe can be crafted with a simple working of your will. Mages and mystics and shamanic healers have taught this truth throughout the ages. Thoughts and feelings manifest itself into reality. This makes us co-creators with the universe. Quantum physics even suggest that by redirecting our focus and our attentions we can bring a new course of events into action.
"Everything we think, feel, and do has an effect on our ancestors and all future generations and reverberates throughout the universe."
Thich Nhat Hanh
A tiny emotion becomes a thought of a one raindrop, thousands of drops turn into a flood. There is true magic-alchemy in the power of will, we shape the world by our desires, thoughts, intents and actions. So in relation to mankind's "ascension" it is the product of many working, thinking, acting, and living as a higher unit of collective thought energy processes.

Kabalistic teachings there's a saying, "think well of everyone". In Kabbalah, what we do in this world always has effects in the spiritual dimension. There is also the term "cycle of reciprocity": what is going out from your mind is always coming back to you.

"Remember to be cautious with your thoughts and your words; they are the tools of creation.
Remember cause and effect.
Remember there is nothing more important than love."
(Mary Sparrowdancer - "The Love Song of The Universe&quot;)
Quantum physicists, neuroscientists, psychologists and mystics have evolved to the point where a significant paradigm shift is happening. The universe is viewed as sympathetically connected, unifying, matter, energy and consciousness. Physics unites the many mathematical principles and perhaps one day physics will merge with spiritual and religious principles. The gap is narrowing.

It's an interweaving of basic fundamental processes. Science has everything to do with consciousness, it is One with it. There is no one place something "starts" and "ends.” It is a continuum of the same. Just like there are not real defining lines of the dimensional levels. All is connected. There is a mystical world that we traverse where there is no time/space and dimensional divisions. Such as there are no divisions between the sciences of the dimensions - for all properties are found throughout the universe. There are worlds in our many realities that we haven't begun to explore, either as scientists or mystics.

As science is discovering more and more uniquely mysterious properties of the universe, we are discovering more and more of the properties of our being and our consciousness. All living things are made up of cells - like trillions of tuning forks resonating together by the energy of the heart. The cells reverberate in a concert of energetic harmony. Every cell is literally a mini-heart hammering with energy. As complex as they are, our cells are more space than "stuff.” Every cell is 99.999% empty space with subatomic bundles of energy whizzing through at the speed of light."

"If you really want to know what the body looks like, look up to the evening sky and see the stars, the cells of cosmic energy scattered through space. If you really want to know what the body looks like, listen to the waves and the wind for the energy they carry. If you really want to know what the body's energy feels like, be aware of a gently breeze and sense the molecules of information breathed in and out by every person and thing that has ever lived. If you want to get a glimpse of how your whole body/heart/brain system sounds when it works collectively, listen to a symphony."

Quantum physics suggests that by redirecting our focus, our intentions and attentions, we bring in a new course of events while simultaneously releasing an existing course of events that no longer serve us. A matter of replacing, renewing, and regenerating a new thought form that better serves to heighten the consciousness of everyone. We must find, understand and fully comprehend this interrelationship and oneness of our humanitarian nature and the impact on the whole of creation. We are realizing the complete being we are by understanding that even at the quantum level we affect things around us.

In finding our place in Nature, we just may save the Earth and ourselves in the process.

[NeillT006]

I don't remember who was the original poster

Lace:

This was LSULaw or LawLSU, a world class cutnpaster who, errr, borrowed, errrr, liberally, from numerous sources, all without a hint of attribution.

Nevertheless, his post did prod me to do some reading resulting in a fairly decent Tesseract post which I fear is now lost.

Neill

[Sarahs Monkey]

When you guys start going this indepth, I suspect you've gone over the heads of the LOST creators and writer (and gone beyond what is marketable to mainstream America).

[thoughtform]

I am bumping this because it is full of info about everything. I know that it is fairly thick reading, but it is very interesting. I wish all the posts were still there. You can learn a lot here about theories like portal openings, frequencies, vibrations, time/dimensional travel, etc.

[LostInWilderness]

Smulaw who crawled away in the recesses of the internet. I hope SMU law is teaching something about plagarism.

[clayseason1]

Sarahs Monkey
When you guys start going this indepth, I suspect you've gone over the heads of the LOST creators and writer (and gone beyond what is marketable to mainstream America).
I agree and disagree with you. If the information in this thread were presented as is to the general public as enterntainment, most people (including myself) would zone out. But that's not what the entertainment field does.

Let me point out a few examples.

Quantum theory, multi-verse, alternate realities

Two highly successful television series come to mind - Quantum Leap and Sliders.

In Quantum Leap, our hero's essence, travels through time/space and ultimately resides within another person - the purpose of which is to change the past for a better future.

In Sliders, our lost heroes, physically travel from one alternate world to another and run into their alternate selves more often than not.

Each of these programs took a complex theory and developed an entertainment program embraced by mainstream America.

In addition, Stargate (the series) besides employing wormhole travel between two points located light years apart has incorporated the "ascension" theory as described within this thread.

In order to figure out what is going on in LOST, we have to have some knowledge of scientific theory.

eta:
thoughtform
Thank you for bumping up this thread. I think I see where you are going with some of your thoughts. I look forward to your theory when you post it.

In keeping with the information on frequencey and music ... I do not have a math or science background, but after reading this information, it seems to me that music can be expressed in math terms and math can be expressed in musical terms. What if the numbers 4 8 15 16 23 and 42 are expressed in musical terms? Would they correspond to "You all everybody"? Does anyone know?

[drabauer]

I could figure that out for you. Check my archived thread La Mer is a Code!!!

I can't find hide nor hair of it; I fear it may be gone forever |I

Can anyone help?

[Druzliah]

Does anyone know what the numbers mean? Like 8 is the number of newbeginning ect? i wonder if their meanings have anything to do with this as well. I mean tieing it all together somehow? or should i just hush?

[LostInWilderness]

Assuming this post isn't a joke, you should look in drabauers Lost Theories Index (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sage?topicID=434.topic).

[Druzliah]

No joke I've been to the index. Sigh, most of the threads for numbers don't exhist anymore. In fact many of them no longer exhist in all the subjects.

[drabauer]

Yes, the ezhack destroyed many many threads.


I'll sort out the rest eventually.

[Druzliah]

It's not your fault :) However what threds i have read on havent seemed to touch all aspects of the "numbers" such as Number Stations

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_station (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_station)

It seems broadcasting numbers on a short wave radio station is common place.

Numbers stations are shortwave radio stations of uncertain origin that broadcast streams of numbers, letters (using a phonetic alphabet), or words. It is not known publicly with certainty where these signals originate nor what purpose they serve. The voices that can be heard on these stations are often mysterious: mechanically generated; spoken in a wide variety of languages; usually female, but sometimes male or those of children. Numbers stations appear and disappear continuously, although some stick to regular schedules, and their overall activity has increased slightly since the early 1990s.

[drabauer]

There have been two prominent threads on the number stations.

It is late now; I will find them tomorrow and link them.

[thoughtform]

bumping for the interesting reading

[TheBigCat]

Good call, Thoughtform. This is one that definately needs to be kept near the top.

[SelfProjectRealized]

I just wish so much of the thread wasn't lost :(

[thoughtform]

Me too, oven. But at least there is still some meat left in it.

And I still can't let go of the fear/desire manifestation aspect to the island or whatever is "controlling" the island. Maybe we'll find out when we see what is in the hatch.

[sexy baby mama]

Me too. Such wonderfulness, such research...

and it's all ezhack's fault.

[thoughtform]

Each spatial (and possibly TEMPORAL) location, no matter what dimension it resides in, has a specific coordinate, referenced by a combination of frequencies that equate to the 'signature' for that location.

Just thinking that the numbers may relate to this. After reading more about it, it appears that positions of the planets, sun, and earth also are involved in dimensional travel or portal openings. Constellations and their star coordinates may also play a part in how the portal is opened.

[SelfProjectRealized]

So if this theory's gonna fly, we need an explanation for how quantum physical effects are having an impact on the "macro" sized world. Really, quantum physics works, and has accumulated an assload of evidence, at the subatomic level. But at the macro level, we're usually governed by rules of relativity instead. What makes the Lost world different? Have our characters been shrunk to subatomic sizes? Or is it because of my natural selection thing, like - there does exist a possible world where QP works at the macro level and it's "surviving", at least on this small scale, because of that?

What do we think?

[LostInWilderness]

This theory needs no such thing. If TPTB have picked this as their fictional pseudo-scientific explanation behind Lost, then it works. If they have chosen something else it doesn't. The actual physics is immaterial to a fictional TV show.

[star2954]

This theory needs no such thing. If TPTB have picked this as their fictional pseudo-scientific explanation behind Lost, then it works. If they have chosen something else it doesn't. The actual physics is immaterial to a fictional TV show.

Yeah but it's still fun to speculate about it. Going by that we can all just not theorize at all and just sit back and say, well this is what they want. It's true, but theorizing is the fun part. :p

[bump]

hehe

[shootingstar05]

So if this theory's gonna fly, we need an explanation for how quantum physical effects are having an impact on the "macro" sized world

Isn't that what String Theory is all about?

[star2954]

ING!!! *waves*

I love String Theory, though I know very little about it, so I'll let Evan answer that since he's brilliant.

;)

[shootingstar05]

hello star! long time no chat, huh?

I've done lots of reading on quantum physics and String Theory but for some reason I have a hard time retaining information and thus could not elaborate on why it may be relevant to this theory.
Evan? Anyone else?

[SelfProjectRealized]

String theory is about explaining the discrepancies between Relativity (special and general), which has been more or less experimentally proven to work for very large objects, and Quantum Physics which has been more or less experimentally proven to work for very tiny objects. The problem is that these two theories, as they stand, conflict in a lot of their fundamental principles, and it's somewhat frustrating to believe that physics works in fundamentally different ways just due to the size of an object. However, if QP is the answer on Lost, it's working in such a way that it never has before - i.e., directly within the world of large objects. String Theory has nothing to say about this, for it simply doesn't happen in real physics. If it is happening on Lost, it would be nice if some reason or logic was provided behind it to explain why this part of the universe doesn't work in the same way as the rest. I attempted to provide that explanation with my natural selection analogy, but I'm not too sure about it anymore.

[shootingstar05]

See, I was thinking of String Theory being what ties together Relativity and Quantum Physics so that the laws of each make sense in the big picture, not just separately. That's why I thought it might apply in this case to explain how Quantum Physics could be involved.

[SelfProjectRealized]

That is what it is, SS, but, while String Theory does "tie them together" in the sense of unifying them into one theory that explains both, it definitely does not predict that Quantum Physical rules could start working differently than they already do, e.g. at a macro level.

String theory may be relevant, but it doesn't really provide an explanation on its own - you'll have to give a reasoning behind how it helps.

[shootingstar05]

Ah, ok.....it's clearer to me now.
I was overlooking your main point.
Hmmmm.....

[SelfProjectRealized]

I HAVE WRITTEN A HUGE UPDATE TO MY THEORY.

You can read it and discuss it here (http://p066.ezboard.com/fthebasement82697frm25.showMessage?topicID=26.topi c).

Enjoy!

[drabauer]

Why not post it here, Evan, and keep everything in one place?

[NeillT006]

Why not post it here, Evan, and keep everything in one place?

Indeed, why not?

Wheels within wheels.

N.

[SelfProjectRealized]

I will at some point - for now I'm trying to promote the Lost section of the basement!

[SelfProjectRealized]

Alright... that may be a losing battle.

[drabauer]

Agreed!

Evan continues his fascinating theory here! (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sage?topicID=2627.topic)

[drabauer]

Agreed!

SelfProjectRealized continues his fascinating theory here! (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm29.showMes sage?topicID=2627.topic)

[lacenaire]

Megabump for SPR thread

[LostfanforLife]

Although much of this is a little over my head scientifically, I am liking the alternate reality/parallel universe angles a lot. I believe that the writers have given us a few clues to this already in the flashback scenes being shown.

In Michael's flashback scenes from "Adrift" he shows great surprise that Walt's mom wants him to give up rights to Walt and let her new beau adopt him. But in the original flashbacks in the hospital she had already told him that.

There were also small differences in Sun and Jin's flashbacks. Admittedly these could just be perspective differences, but maybe not.

In Hurleys flashbacks we are shown that his grandfather died and the priest was struck by lighning at his grandfathers funeral, before his house burned down. Possibly he just hasn't mentioned everything when talking about it to Jack, but the priest is not mentioned ... instead he talks of the Chicken Shack he worked at being strike by a meteor ("well, meteorite").

Possibly we will see more and more of these "small and insignificant" differences show up as more flashbacks are shown.

I believe that Desmond somehow knows about the alternate realities and is trying to find his "correct" one.

At the stadium, Desmond says "Lift her up.", and waits for Jack's reply. When Jack replys with "Lift it up?", Desmond looks disappointed, then says, " See you in another life." and leaves.

When they are in the forest talking about Sarah, Desmond asks a lot of pointed questions about whether she got better. Jack finally cries out, " I married her!" Desmond looks thoughtful, and finally says, "Then you aren't married to her now?" and waits for the response. When Jack shakes his head no, Desmond again says, "See you in another life." and leaves.

These two incidents seem very important to me. Possibly Desmond is looking for the reality where Jack has faith and knows what "Lift her up" means, and where Jack and Sarah stay married??

Just a thought.

[SelfProjectRealized]

I like your ideas. I noticed that about Adrift too. The way I explained it to myself was that, maybe when she told him at the hospital he just didn't realize that in order for Brian to adopt Walt he'd have to give up all of his parental rights. Or it just hadn't fully struck him yet until his lawyer worded it in that particular way. But that was a pretty wanky explanation. And I definitely think there's more going on with that "lift it up" scene too.

[*Saint*]

*bump*

:bump:

I've been thinking about this Quantum theory for a little bit now, and quite surprised that no one in this thread dared to bring up Michael Cricton's "Timeline." The book deals with time travel through Quantum Foam, irregularities in sapce at the subatomic level. Through exploiting this irregularities, they are able to reach another destination, another universe. A universe that is parallel to our universe, but at an earlier time. Yet, it occurs at all times. I need to grab some quotations from the novel on how this works and post here, but it's a great discussion to open up again. Again, it would explain things in a scientific manner (which TPTB stated the show would be) and might tie into our storyline, if not in a little bit. I mean, our losties, could have hit an irregularity and traveled to a parallel universe?

It's so ironic. I hated science in school (despite Biology) but I am thoroughly intrigued by Quantum Theory! How can we NOT rule at this a small portion of this out?

[Danakin]

Now, this is fucked up, no? I think it was Bohr who once said something like, anybody who thinks they understand quantum physics and is not completely mystified by it has not actually understood the first thing about it. But, the fact is, experimentally, quantum physics has gathered so much evidence at the sub-atomic level that it is essentially proven (at least by the maxpublic definition of the word). So, now, we are forced to interpret it. And therein lies the problem. People can’t seem to agree on the interpretation, and that’s why this still qualifies as speculative science, pseudo-science, and that’s one reason why it’s still so damned interesting.


A popular interpretation is that quantum theory is an approximation to an underlying, deterministic theory. Another is that the universe actually *is* probabalistic.

I would favour the former because it seems more 'nice'. From what little I know of quantum theory, it is nowhere near elegant enough to have the last word.

But yes, you are right, it is very difficult to interpret quantum theory even for the physicists themselves, so everyone can have their say, because the physicists are nearly as confused as everyone else is!

[yung23]

bump

[SelfProjectRealized]

*ahem*...

[northernlightsabove]

EVAN SQUEE?!!!

[clayseason1]

I thought I bumped this thread this morning! Sorry SPR

This theory is one of the reasons I am on this board and no other. LTV always had and continues to have the best theories.


SPR, I've read this theory countless times -- you get a standing ovation from me!

[time is a river]

I like this part:

No... in these rare cases, the observers themselves are inextricably connected with the observed, affecting the Hilbert space vector itself (which is what determines what realities/eigenvalues are more or less probable)

Is this what Jacob was doing, going into the past and touching the characters?

[sawyerhasbestlines]

One of my favorite threads. :)

[lachme]

so you just bump and bail?

here's a blast from your past, darlin--

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/lachme/evanonlost3.jpg

you go to hawaii.......and you never even got me an autograph!
i mean, where's the love?

;)