View Full Version : Anyone else about to be hit by Katrina?
merry slug
08-25-05, 11:23 AM
Who else is down here in S Fla?
merry slug,
While I hope you made it through Katrina well, it looks like my part of the country is up for the next hit. We made it through Dennis relatively unscathed so we can only hope for the best. I'm in Southern GA and granted, we're not exactly beachfront, but we still get the effects of the hurricanes.
I only hope that anyone who's in the ever-changing hurricane path makes it through well! For all you Southern US folks out there, I for one am thinking about, and hoping for the best, for y'all!
I'm bumping this from a few days back due to the fact that things are getting ugly in Louisiana and Mississippi. It was originally thought to be headed toward my part of the country (GA) but it's taken the worst possible turn.
I know we have at least a couple of posters here who have family in Louisiana (me included) so here's to hoping that everything turns out well for everyone and everyone's family made it out ahead of time. (Yes, mine did, they're here in Georgia) For those who didn't make it out, hmmm.....what can I really say? We'll be thinking about you!
I read on a blog earlier tonight, "If you're a religious person, pray. If not, hope. Either way, it's going to be ugly." I think that pretty much sums it up.
feigenbaum
08-29-05, 12:26 AM
My heart and mind goes out to everyone out there!
Hope your all alright.We're thinking of you.
Lostaboutlost
08-29-05, 12:51 AM
Yes! I saw on the news that there were 1000 people crowding into this one astro-dome. That must suck big time. So hope your well and in a nice safe place!
moonshadow707
08-29-05, 02:05 AM
This looks like it's going to be really nasty, especially for New Orleans, which lies below sea level.
When I was eleven, my hometown was flooded and we had four feet of water in the first floor of our house. So I have a little bit of an idea of what they are going to have to go through. We didn't have to deal with hurricane-force winds, though.
Leuthen, that quote summed it up, for sure. Pray, hope, donate $ if you can. :(
Lal,
They're expecting about 20,000 - 30,000 in the SuperDome tonight! While a strong building, let's hope the roof holds! If not............
Just FYI - I just heard an audio interview with one of the guys (Hurricane Hunters?) flying in the storm right now and even he said that he feels sorry for anyone in Southern Louisiana and Mississippi tonight because they're going to "..get hammered pretty bad here in a short period of time". That's not what I was hoping to hear.............
Sorry, I don't mean to sound so bleak, but I think we're quite possibly seeing history in the making, and not in a good way.
feigenbaum
08-29-05, 02:10 AM
I did not see the enormity of the situation.
I just switched on the Tv and my news is reporting it.
It says 100s of thousands are being evacuated.The pictures they are showing are awful.
fb,
Do you have SkyNews (http://www.sky.com/skynews/home)? They are the sister site in the UK to our FoxNews (http://www.foxnews.com/) here. Considering that you're hearing about it ought to tell you how serious it is. Oh, and it isn't 100s of thousands, it's more like millions that have evacuated. All roads leading to southern Lousiana have been converted to one direction only, OUT. At this point, if anyone hasn't left, it's too late. They're safer where they are than in a car.
I've had the coverage of this on since about 5pm EST, switching between FoxNews and The Weather Channel (http://www.weather.com/). I'm not in the direct area of impact, rather a little to the East, however, it's raining here now and I'm 3 states away! The effects are expected to reach out about 150 miles from the eye, the really bad effects anyway.
I don't know how much you know about New Orleans, but it is a city below sea level. Katrina is the worst case scenario for New Orleans! It's likely that N.O. could end up under several dozen feet of water tonight! The entire city. That's the worst case scenario and from what I'm hearing behind me on the TV, that's what they're planning for. "Unprecedented event" is the latest quote.
If I could shed any positive light on this it would be, "Prepare for the worst, hope for the best." Let's hope all the predictions are wrong!
My prayers go out to everyone on the Gulf Coast, especially those folks in New Orleans...
feigenbaum
08-29-05, 02:39 AM
Yes I have skynews.I also get some US news stations.
It was the BBC that were reporting the hurricane.Its got more coverage than any other hurricane happening abroad.
Millions? That is so many people.This is one of those things where people just have to be there for each other and help all they can.
Good luck to everyone caught up in the Hurricane.Were all thinking about you and praying that everyone is wrong in their predictions.
merry slug
08-29-05, 08:53 AM
Okay - yuck.
When I first posted this, Katrina was heading straight for me, but we (West Palm Beach area) dodged the bullet this time.
This would have been my fourth hurricane, and I was previously telling my sister on the phone not to worry 'cause it was "just a little category 1..." Now I'm sorry I was so flippant.
1) You should never be flippant about hurricanes, and
2) I feel horrible for those on the Gulf Coast.
I'd rather it had hitt us :(
MJBinNC
08-29-05, 02:35 PM
Praying for the people in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama. Now, a part of the roof from the Superdome is going - blown off. That is just horrible. Someplace that was thought to be safe and a shelter is being destroyed.
No one should be stuck in the middle of that.
Lostaboutlost
08-29-05, 05:14 PM
^ Part of the Superdome roof collapsed??? That is BAD.
An update from CNN:
NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- Hurricane Katrina left at least five people dead Monday and the toll was expected to climb in the wake of one of the largest and most powerful hurricanes to hit the northern Gulf Coast in a half century.
More than 12 hours after making landfall on the Louisiana coast east of New Orleans, Katrina was downgraded to a tropical storm with winds of 60 mph Monday evening.
The storm's daylong rampage claimed lives and ravaged property in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama, where coastal areas remained under several feet of water.
Three people were killed by falling trees in Mississippi, and The Associated Press reported two others lost their lives in storm-related traffic accidents in Alabama.
In Louisiana, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said there was no official death tally. But, she told CNN she expected that to change.
"We believe we've lost some lives," she said. "We're hearing isolated reports here and there."
Many were feared dead in flooded neighborhoods still under as much as 20 feet of water.
The storm's survivors face months of displacement.
The Federal Emergency Management Agency is preparing to house "at least tens of thousands of victims ... for literally months on end," the agency's director, Michael Brown, said Monday night.
Lakes and rivers were still spilling over levees late Monday, and "it's going to get worse before it gets better," Brown said.
Veteran FEMA staffers who have surveyed the destruction are reporting some of the worst damage they have ever seen, he said.
The American Red Cross said it is launching the largest relief operation in its history.
More than 75,000 people are being housed in nearly 240 shelters across the region, and Red Cross President Marty Evans told CNN, "We expect that to grow" as people who can't return home seek somewhere to stay.
More than 1.3 million homes and businesses in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama were without electricity, according to utility companies serving the region.
In Mississippi, streets and homes were flooded as far as six miles inland, and the eastbound lanes of Interstate 10 between Gulfport and Biloxi were impassable because of storm debris.
More than 50 people were rescued from flooded neighborhoods in the New Orleans area, according to a spokesman for Louisiana's Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness agency. (Watch video of a helicopter rescue)
"We've got a massive search-and-rescue operation going on," Gov. Blanco said. "I believe that we're going to pull out hundreds of people."
Search-and-rescue missions also were under way the the coastal counties of Jackson, Harrison and Hancock Monday evening, emergency management spokeswoman Lea Stokes said.
Hotel worker Suzanne Rodgers returned to her beachfront home near Biloxi but, she told CNN, "there is nothing there. There's debris hanging from trees."
Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour called Katrina's aftermath "catastrophic."
In Louisiana, Blanco said preliminary reports indicate that Hurricane Katrina "devastated" parts of at least six parishes.
Both states experienced looting.
A crowd of about 50 to 75 people swarmed through a supermarket in New Orleans, taking out shopping carts full of goods before police arrived.
Looting was reported by police in Gulfport, Mississippi, where the storm surge left downtown streets under 10 feet of water.
As of 11 p.m. ET Monday, Katrina was near Columbus, Mississippi, according to the National Weather Service. (See video of Katrina gouging Mississippi)
The storm was headed north Monday night through Mississippi toward Tennessee and the Ohio River Valley. But even as a tropical storm, Katrina was still causing plenty of trouble.
Katrina's outer bands spawned tornados in Georgia Monday evening. Three twisters were reported in Georgia, one in central Peach County and two in the northwest counties of Carroll and Paulding. One person in Carroll County was critically injured.
Officials warned Louisiana evacuees to stay away for at least a week to avoid "a wilderness" without utilities that will be infested with poisonous snakes and fire ants.
"We would really encourage people not to come back [to New Orleans] for at least a week," said Ivor van Heerden, director of the Center for the Study of Public Health Impacts of Hurricanes in Baton Rouge.
"If your house is gone, it's gone," he said. "If you come back in a day or a week, it's not going to make any difference." (Full story)
Blanco said she had ordered state police to block re-entry routes to all but emergency workers.
After topping levees in New Orleans, Katrina inundated the Louisiana and Mississippi coasts with a 20-foot storm surge.
In Mobile, Alabama, the storm pushed Mobile Bay into downtown, submerging large sections of the city, and officials imposed a dusk-to-dawn curfew.
An oil drilling platform broke away from its moorings and lodged under a bridge that carries U.S. Highway 98 over the Mobile River.
The Alabama National Guard activated 450 troops to secure Mobile. Two other Alabama battalions, or about 800 troops, were activated to assist in Mississippi.
The storm came ashore Monday morning just east of New Orleans. Winds topping 140 mph transformed street signs, tree branches and roof debris into projectiles.
Rising water strained the system of levees and pumping stations that protect the low-lying city. About 70 percent of the city sits below sea level. (Full story)
Water poured over levees in Orleans and St. Bernard parishes, and pats of the city's east side were under 9 feet of standing water. (See video of near whiteout conditions and debris-filled winds)
The latest damage estimates by insurance industry analysts project that total insured damage from Hurricane Katrina could be between $10 billion and $25 billion dollars. The upper end of that range would make Katrina the costliest U.S. hurricane on record.
SpidermanHouston
08-30-05, 10:07 PM
Those are some scary images that I am seeing in the news. 80% of New Orleans is under water. Here in Houston, all our hotels and motels are filled because of the Louisiana residents that evacuated and headed west. It's just a five hour drive to New Orleans from here but we didn't even get a single rain drop here.
truffula
08-31-05, 01:04 AM
I just spoke with a friend whose mom lives in NO, and she was fortunate enough to pack all her prized posessions into her car and drive to Baton Rouge.
She lived 5 min from French Quarter.
Her house was destroyed. :(
My thoughts and prayers go out to all those hit by this unfortunately awesome power of nature.
It's about to get worse guys! As if that's possible. The alerts are going out all over NOLA (That's New Orleans, LouisianA), to evacuate. The pumps and at least one of the leveys on Lake Ponchetrain (sp?) are expected to fail within the next 12-15 hours that will send a wall of water 9 feet high through NOLA! This is like a train wreck, it just keeps getting worse! I should have posted about the roof of the SuperDome peeling away yesterday morning around 9AM EST but I couldn't get to a computer. They're evacuating the SuperDome as we speak from the last I heard.
This is why I've been glued to my TV for the last 3 days. Tonight I finally decided to take some "away" time because I'm fortunate enough to be able to do so. My family from Lousiana is still here in GA through the weekend. Not sure what they're going to return too though. I'm sure that's going to be the topic of conversation this weekend when I meet up with my Dad. I'm starved for information about friends who were closer to bad areas. My dad was in the Air Force and stationed at Keesler, AFB when I was a baby and we lived in the Gulfport area. As most of you know, there's next to nothing left there now, at least not inhabitable.
I know I made it sound bad when I first bumped this thread and that was because I knew that the Easterly side of Katrina was going to be the worst (the fact that I know that alone is a scary thought. The Easterly side of any hurricane is the worst side.) and if the eye had passed to the West of NOLA, this would have been a whole lot worse as if it's not bad enough.
If/when the levys break on Lake Ponchetrain (sp?), well, let's just say this is far from over. A 9 foot wall of water rushing into NOLA? Y'all have seen the video of houses that are already under water up to their eaves right? Imagine another 9 feet. Better yet, don't, just hope the levy holds. I once said that I hope the roof of the SuperDome holds, and it didn't. I hope I'm proven wrong on this one about the levys.
It just takes my breath away. I want to go there to help (I can be there in under 6 hours) but at the same time I know the best thing for me, and everyone else, to do is to stay away at this point. The time for an influx of those who want to help will come, but now is not that time. They have enough to deal with at this point.
Looks like I was too late in hoping the levees (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167781,00.html) would hold. Either that or this is a story I missed earlier while stupidly trying to take some "away" time. Geez this is a nightmare.
wickedsweet
08-31-05, 02:26 AM
My question is why wasn't more done before the storm hit to evacuate the poor who wanted to leave but were unable? I know that not every life could have been saved but hundreds could have been bussed out of there to somewhere safe. Why weren't they?
Lostaboutlost
08-31-05, 02:30 AM
^My family was wondering the same thing!
wickedsweet
08-31-05, 02:35 AM
I think that once the emergency passes there will be alot of questions about how the evacs were handled.
wickedsweet,
I know that not every life could have been saved but hundreds could have been bussed out of there to somewhere safe. Why weren't they?
I started this once with a different tone but I'll simply say, when you find the answer to that, let us know! To be quite blunt, and don't take this as an attack on you, but at this point we have a lot of time later to play "Monday morning quarterback." This isn't over for NOLA nor the Gulf shore as a whole. Hindsight is always 20/20 IMHO. You have to remember and realize that there are many there who stayed who refused to leave. Not all, but a lot. Why? Well that's a good question. I don't have all the answers nor do I suggest the ones I'm about to give are the only ones.
1 - The predictors of these storms have been known in the past to over-predict the effects of the storms. They did it this time as well. If you read/heard some of the stuff early yesterday morning you'd have thought NOLA was as good as a fishbowl. It was done, gone, fuhgetaboutit. It wasn't as bad as it was predicted, at least not for NOLA, yet.
2 - People refuse to leave because they want to protect what is theirs regardless of how much may be left once the danger passes. Why? How many times have you heard "looters" today/tonight? That's why. They might not have much left but what is left is theirs and they want to stay to protect it.
Honestly, I think it's a combination of both of those.
Now, to answer your question:
My question is why wasn't more done before the storm hit to evacuate the poor who wanted to leave but were unable?
I would like to think that everything was done to evacuate those who were unable to leave, poor or otherwise. Some people just refuse to leave in these things. You read the stories every single time one of these things hits. There's always someone who stays, always. I know for a fact that at least 3 ambulatory people died on the highway because they were caught in the traffic leaving and simply couldn't get through the traffic fast enough.
The effort was made. Was it early enough? See my comments above ala "Monday Morning quarterbacking". We're talking about evacuating an area on an immense scale. There's only so much we can do. I honestly believe the effort was made to get those out who wanted out. I know if I'd been one of those leaving, I'd have picked up anyone who was looking for a ride, anyone. Even if they had to ride on the trunk of the car. Hell, I want to go NOW to help and I'm 3 states away. However, I also know that I'd most likely just get in the way.
The Gulf shore area had days of warning about this. We saw it pass over FL and then gain in strength. Unlike an earthquake, we knew this was coming, days in advance. Why wasn't more done? I don't know more could have been done. Why weren't the levees strengthened to handle more than a Cat 3 hurricane? Why weren't the pumps in NOLA updated to handle a Cat 5 hurricane? WHY IN THE HELL DID SOMEONE DECIDE TO BUILD A COASTAL CITY BELOW SEA LEVEL IN THE FIRST PLACE! I don't know.
OK, I'm rambling now and generally OD'ing on information overload. I apologize wickedsweet if this comes across the wrong way. Basically, I'm asking the same thing as you but the time for those questions are passed/on hold for later. Let's hope and pray for those still there and question it later! Hopefully this will be a learning experience for everyone involved! Again I apologize because not all of that was directed at you. I guess we're all thinking the same thing right about now! :rolleyes
SpidermanHouston
08-31-05, 03:08 AM
Leuth, people that don't know about football might not know what the term "Monday morning quarterback" means. I know what it means but I can probably see some females confused by that phrase.
Spidey,
Thanks for the heads-up! :lol
OK, "Monday morning quarterback" = hindsight is always 20/20. I think that ought to explain it nicely. If you don't know what "hindsight is always 20/20" means, well, I don't know what to tell you! :lol Look it up and good luck, I tried in order to provide a link. Basically it means, everything could be done correctly afterwards. :)
LostInWilderness
08-31-05, 03:55 AM
The risk to New Orleans has been well documented over the years. It was simply a failure of leadership that New Orleans wasn't prepared for a hurricane over cat 3.
americanradioworks.public...cane1.html (http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/wetlands/hurricane1.html)
The magnitude of this disaster in New Orleans could have been greatly reduced - especially the coming humanitarian disaster.
It was simply a failure of leadership that New Orleans wasn't prepared for a hurricane over cat 3.
*applauds LIW* Yeah, pretty much what LIW said! It could have been reduced, but wasn't......Sorry, getting into "Monday morning quarterback"-mode.
I was going to provide links but they're useless at this point. At this point it isn't about what should have been done, rather, what can we do now to prevent this from happening again........and it's quite possible that it is going to happen again. As I said earlier, I truly hope this is a learning experience as tragic as it possibly may be.
wickedsweet
08-31-05, 12:55 PM
You have to remember and realize that there are many there who stayed who refused to leave.
I understand that and while that's true I was asking about those who wanted to leave but had no means to do so. Those without cars, those without the money to find lodging once out of the area and tourist left stranded when thier flights were cancelled, why were they not given the help they needed to leave? For every 1 person I saw saying they chose to stay I saw 2 that wanted out but just didn't have the means to go. I just feel that if the government is going to order evacs then they should provide the means to do so for those who need the help.
Hindsight is always 20/20 IMHO
True but foresight could have saved lives. NOLA feared this storm for years, why weren't evac plans ready to go on short notice.
I would like to think that everything was done to evacuate those who were unable to leave, poor or otherwise.
So would I. Unfortunatly if there were indeed people left stranded they know otherwise.
The Gulf shore area had days of warning about this
They sure did which means that there was plenty of time to bus out those who wanted to leave. Were those people evacuated or not? Perhaps they were but it never made the news and if that's the case then thank God they were given the assiatance they needed to get out. If not then someone owes it to those left behind and their loved ones to find out why not.
WHY IN THE HELL DID SOMEONE DECIDE TO BUILD A COASTAL CITY BELOW SEA LEVEL IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Ego. For some reason we keep telling ourselves that we can outsmart Mother Natrure and then time and time again Mother Nature proves us wrong.
I apologize wickedsweet if this comes across the wrong way.
No apology needed we all have the right to feel how we feel about this, to question what we feel needs to be questioned and to take comfort in whatever answers we can find to take comfort in.
the time for those questions are passed/on hold for later
You're probably right and while my question may be ill timed I mean in no way to distract from the tragedy of what is occuring right now. I know that the more important question is what can be done now to get refugees out but that doesn't change the fact that as I watch this suffering from the safety of my own living room I can't help but wonder why more wasn't done to get them out when the getting would have been good. I apologise if my timing is offensive.
At any rate, I hope my post isn't coming off wrong either and that you understand that asking these questions is just part of my way of wrapping my head and my heart around this nightmare.
* I apologise for any spelling and/or grammar errors. I spent a long night with a teething 8 month old and my english skills are clearly suffering for it.
This is going to sound very heartless of me. Very cold. It'll offend many. But it's how I feel, so I'ma say it:
Anyone who stayed to "protect" their house, or because they wanted to "ride out" the storm deserves nothing less what they get; even if that means death.
Sorry, it's just true. It's plain stupid to stay when they warned for DAYS AND DAYS AND DAYS, WEEKS AND WEEKS AND WEEKS on how severe this storm would be. A MANDATORY evacuation was given. Hundreds of thousands fled. If you can't grasp the severity of a situation by multiple warnings on end for weeks straight, and then 95% of your entire town fleeing...well then stay and die, whatever. I have no sympathy for anyone who stayed behind and drowned or whatever. They sealed their own fate. Hell, WALK if you are too poor to take a bus or have no relatives out of state. Do something, anything. Don't just sit at home thinking you are the brick house from the three little pigs.
[/rant]
Stupid people just really irritate me. Especially in emergency situations.
Lostaboutlost
08-31-05, 01:08 PM
^ I agree.
wickedsweet
08-31-05, 01:09 PM
people that don't know about football might not know what the term "Monday morning quarterback" means. I know what it means but I can probably see some females confused by that phrase. :rollin
As a female not only am I not confused this term but I can also change my own tires, kill my own spiders and hook up my own electronics. Funny but a uterus isn't half the handicap it once was.;)
Lostaboutlost
08-31-05, 01:16 PM
You kill the spiders? I am still to feminine to be able to kill them. I take them outside. :)
Sorry, threadjack...
wickedsweet
08-31-05, 01:17 PM
Anyone who stayed to "protect" their house, or because they wanted to "ride out" the storm deserves nothing less what they get; even if that means death.
I agree, with the exception of those who made that decision for their young children who shouldn't be forced into a dangerous situation because of their parents stupidity.
WALK if you are too poor to take a bus or have no relatives out of state. Do something, anything. Don't just sit at home thinking you are the brick house from the three little pigs
You're right that does sound heartless. Perhaps those "to poor to take a bus" hoped they would be safer inside any building than outside in the elements when the storm hit.
Lostaboutlost
08-31-05, 01:19 PM
You're right that does sound heartless. Perhaps those "to poor to take a bus" hoped they would be safer inside any building than outside in the elements when the storm hit. True. And I'm sure that there were many people who weren't properly educated about the full potential of the storm.
wickedsweet
08-31-05, 01:21 PM
You kill the spiders? I am still to feminine to be able to kill them. I take them outside
I'm way to scared of spiders (silly I know) to take one anywhere!! I go all Mike Tyson on their sorry little butts.
Lostaboutlost
08-31-05, 01:23 PM
:lol Well keep in mind that I attend Nature Camp every summer. I can't kill them. Of course, sometimes I have to get my dad to assist me with the bigger ones...
wickedsweet
08-31-05, 01:33 PM
I have to get my dad to assist me with the bigger ones...
Dads rock that way:D
Lostaboutlost
08-31-05, 02:38 PM
Yes they do!
I'm a bit cooled off now from my rant, lol, I was a little stressed earlier (not over that, but it came out through the form of that post :) )
I still believe though, that anyone who stayed behind is a true idiot. The children, well they can't be held accountable of course...they go where their parents go.
Everyone knew that hurricane was coming...even homeless people knew! It was everywhere. Emergency officials asking people to leave, signs all around town, news coverage on every street corner...everyone knew ahead of time what to expect. And some stayed. It baffles my mind. Then those who stayed end up dying. And we're supposed to feel sympathy? I just cannot bring myself to feel sympathy or sorrow for any of those people who stayed behind who had the choice to leave.
I do sympathize with the struggle to leave your home. Your belongings. Your friends. Your...life, basically. I can sympathize with that hardship and that decision...but it HAS to be made if you want to SURVIVE. Do people actually think if they stay their house will survive the storm? Whatever is going to happen is going to happen whether you are in your house at the time it happens or not.
Homeless people could have approached police officers for a way out of the town. They were giving rides, I'm sure there were people there more than willing to give homeless people rides with them out of the city. Or shelters that were taking people in in nearby cities. They didn't just have to sit there on the city streets waiting for the storm and I don't feel bad that they died because that's exactly what they did.
Lost In His Eyes
09-01-05, 12:35 AM
I totally agree, KF2. I don't understand how people can put their lives and the lives of their family on the line and stay there to protect things. I heard stories about people having to go to their roofs when everything flooded and how they were up there hour after hour. They wouldn't have had to sit up on their roofs if they had left! Katrina was horrible and I'm sorry that so many people lost their houses and belongings, but at least they're alive! And I think it's terrible that people lost their lives as well, but for some it was their own fault for not leaving when they had the chance. They knew it was going to be bad, a category 5 for Chirsts sake! I just don't understand why people would want to chance it and sit there and wait for it to hit them head on...
moonshadow707
09-01-05, 02:40 AM
I agree that it was a pretty stupid decision for most people (in below-sea-level New Orleans especially) to stay in their homes if they could have gotten out. IF they could have.
However...
You talk about the homeless asking policemen for a way out. You know, there's a good percentage of homeless people who are mentally ill. They just aren't *with it* enough to really know WTF is going on. And it's not their fault.
Also there's the elderly, many of whom are frail or in poor health. Too old to drive. Too old to walk out of town. The lucky ones have family or friends or neighbors to look out for them, but some don't. I just saw an 87-year-old woman interviewed on TV who almost started to cry when she told about being given a bed at the Superdome (after she had been there a couple of days). And she ended the interview by saying "God bless you" to the person interviewing her. Bless her heart. She's the one suffering and she says that to someone who's NOT in dire straits? That's the kind of thing that gets to me the most - seeing the elderly suffering. And the kids, and the sick.
All I know is that for whatever reason all those people are stranded there, they need lots of help, and fast.
boonian androphile
09-01-05, 03:09 AM
I agree, Moonshadow. I was just about to post a similar idea. If an agency or the police know of citizens with mental illness in their area, and a hurricane, or in Ohio's case a blizzard or sub-zero temperature, then intervention must be vigorous and people can argue about their rights later. But KF2 I understand your frustration generally. People who have competency or majority or means had more options and it's a tragedy that those people didnt act more promptly. It's a greater tragedy though when confusion is one's daily life, when one must rely on parents who make perceptibly wrong choices, or even if poverty perhaps has one feeling powerless and immobile. But in the end it must be difficult for even the average to person to believe that a big city like New Orleans can be so thoroughly devastated. But in the end Nature rules this planet as much as we hope to. Meanwhile, Moonshadow, I also agree with you that regardless of how this happened, it's time to act to alleviate suffering and protect the living.
That's another thing that irritates me.
The US donates more money than any other country worldwide to fight poverty and hunger in other countries. We give the most relief aid out of anyone (although, when compared to our overall wealth as a country it's the smallest percent, but the largest in total dollars).
But when a disaster strikes our own country...what do we do? Oh, we're going to open some of our oil reserves. Wonderful. How about some money and food? I know National Guard troops have been sent in...but it doesn't seem to be on the front-burner.
boonian androphile
09-01-05, 01:19 PM
I agree absolutely. If this isnt the time to show that the citizens of this country should mean more to this president than his policies in the middle east, when is? And please opening the oil reserves, who does this serve? It is a sign to me that he does not want to be remembered as the president who saw gas prices eclipse the $3 mark. The rising of prices, while outside of anyone's control (or in other words inside the control of a few), nonetheless carries a cynical opportunism. His response of it could take years, while perhaps true, strikes me as the same note that he sings with his Iraqi policy. Let's see an equally vigorous invasion of New Orleans and the rest of the battered Gulf---of Mexico. Usually I view our place in the world in more international terms, but in this matter, I think that America should come first. Last I knew that whole region helped the president win two elections. How about a little gratitude?
Last I knew that whole region helped the president win two elections.
Ok sorry! Here comes the Democrat in me...
Just had to point out that technically he only got elected once. Gore got more votes, but Bush was appointed the first time around.
Thank God that same technicality doesn't mean he can run a third time, though! :)
boonian androphile
09-01-05, 01:56 PM
:lol
Man, I am way democrat! Appointed and annointed. But the electorate reaffirmed (Republicans by voting, Democrats by not driving thousands more Ohioans to the polls) the 2000 outcome. Yes, once more the Republicans' decision to amend the constitution keeps their man out for a 3rd term. Of course, after 2008, the president can volunteer to help drain New Orleans.
I'm just thankful he didn't invade all the houses that had females named Katrina residing in them, calling them a threat to America's freedom.
Lostaboutlost
09-01-05, 10:03 PM
^:rollin And of course he is yet again getting his dad and Clinton to be the head people. I think that's messes up.
*sorry Bush supporters, but I feel very strongly about Bush... in a bad way*
wickedsweet
09-01-05, 11:11 PM
Quote:
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Anyone who stayed to "protect" their house, or because they wanted to "ride out" the storm deserves nothing less what they get; even if that means death.
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I agree, with the exception of those who made that decision for their young children who shouldn't be forced into a dangerous situation because of their parents stupidity.
I thought about my response to this and I am ashamed that I agreeded. While SOME people stayed, for reasons I might see as stupid, I in no way feel that anyone should have to pay for making a stupid mistake with their life.
As someone who's made a few stupid mistakes herself (smoking in my late teens and early 20's, dousing myself in babyoil and laying in the sun for hours even though I'm a fair skinned, green eyed, blonde, ect...) I pray that all of us will be forgiven and protected from our own dumb decisions and find compassion and understanding and a willingness to help when we see others making stupid choices of thier own.
Sorry I just had to get that off my chest
wickedsweet
09-01-05, 11:16 PM
I'm just thankful he didn't invade all the houses that had females named Katrina residing in them, calling them a threat to America's freedom. :rollin
I'm surprised he hasn't found away to blame the storm on terrorist yet, give him time though, I'm sure he'll connect the two.
wickedsweet
09-01-05, 11:23 PM
Did you see Bush's speech on gas prices?
His idea on how to handle high gas prices???
DON'T BUY GAS IF YOU DON'T NEED IT
I'm not kidding that's what Dubya said.
Gee why didn't I think of that. I don't know about anyone else but there is nothing I like to do more that take a trip down to the local BP just to fill my car up with gas I don't need, good times, let me tell ya, good times.
boonian androphile
09-01-05, 11:39 PM
Well I will start right now by not buying gas, not going to work, not making a living, not spending money, not adding to the economy, not paying my taxes, not contributing to the Iraqi mess, and not hoping for a 100 percent effort from this administration to resolve the gulf coast devestation. Bush should give Clinton the job. Clinton has two things going for him. He has had experience in dealing with a flooding crisis and he did us all a favor (with a little help from Perot) in defeating the first president Bush. Meanwhile, all this $3 plus gas is going to do is force people to divert funds from other areas, decrease demand for other goods and services, and throw people out of work. Is that what this president wants? But what does he care? His street isnt flooded.
While SOME people stayed, for reasons I might see as stupid, I in no way feel that anyone should have to pay for making a stupid mistake with their life.
Well, I was trying to sound completely apathetic in my response earlier...I do feel bad that they lost their lives. And I didn't mean to come across as "well, they stayed, they should die. I just meant that they KNEW the consequences going into it. They knew the possibilities if they stayed. And they chose to anyway...so if death befalls them, who am I to feel bad? I'm not going to lose sleep over consequences coming from other people's actions that were controllable.
* I realize not EVERYONE could control their circumstances, and for those people who lost their lives I truly do feel sorry. *
I pray that all of us will be forgiven and protected from our own dumb decisions and find compassion and understanding and a willingness to help when we see others making stupid choices of thier own.
Ok, but the "dumb decisions" you listed weren't life-threatening. If someone told you that you had the possibility of losing your life if you put baby oil all over your skin and went in the sun, would you have done it? If someone said you'll die within 24 hours if you smoke this cigarette, would you have? These people knew death was the #1 likely possibility of staying...and they made that decision.
(This turned into a rather long post so I apologize ahead of time! This is your warning! :) )
wickedsweet,
I apologize for not responding to you earlier. I'm located close to the situation (yeah, 3 states away at this point is considered close). We have quite a few folks from that area who have relocated into our area. My wife is a school teacher and her district has 4 children (so far) who will be starting school next week that are relocated. One of them was supposed to play football this year for the first time and the Superintendent of my wife's district has said that if he (the student) was supposed to play there, he can play here. As you've read, this affects me personally on many levels. I have friends and family in the affected areas. Luckily, from all that I've been able to learn as of right now, all of them are safe. I would say that I'm one of the lucky ones.
Now, onto the rest of your post and I quote it only so I can keep my own thoughts straight.
Those without cars, those without the money to find lodging once out of the area and tourist left stranded when thier flights were cancelled, why were they not given the help they needed to leave?
You know I can't answer that. As I said earlier, I'd like to believe that every effort was made to evacuate those who wanted to be evacuated. I wasn't there, I don't know, I'm only keeping hope in the best of human nature.
For every 1 person I saw saying they chose to stay I saw 2 that wanted out but just didn't have the means to go.
I have to agree with you on that one. I see the same things you do every day on TV. I don't have an answer for that. Could more have been done? Hell yes! Why wasn't it? I have absolutely no idea. The thing I keep going back to is, this wasn't a surprise. It wasn't akin to an earthquake that comes out of nowhere. They knew it was coming for days in advance. Call that an "easy out" if you want, but it's still the truth. I'll only offer this; the effects of the hurricane were over-predicted but the hurricane effects aren't the problem at this point, it's the aftereffects. Everything seemed to be OK (as much as possible) until the levees broke. I honestly think that's where the trouble started. Again, why weren't the levees upgraded in all these years knowing that a Cat 5 hurricane could hit NOLA? I don't know. To be quite honest, last year NOLA was threatened with a storm such as Katrina and they dodged a major bullet that time. They should have gotten a wake-up call last year and obviously it went unheeded.
I just feel that if the government is going to order evacs then they should provide the means to do so for those who need the help.
I couldn't agree with you more on this! Absolutely. However, at the same time, if you're in the "mandatory evacuation" area and have no means to do so, perhaps the residents should have spoken up ala "Hey, I want to leave but can't. What are y'all gonna do to help us?" Was that done? I don't know. I'd like to believe that any city government officials wouldn't just disregard a plea for help by it's residents. If that's the case, then once this is all sorted all, the entire city government of NOLA should be run up the nearest flagpole IMHO.
NOLA feared this storm for years, why weren't evac plans ready to go on short notice.
Funny you should mention that. I forget where I heard it on the radio today but there was a study done a few years back about the "worst possible scenario" as it relates to hurricanes and NOLA was the example they used in that study. Meaning, emergency response units, evacuation methods, dealing with the aftermath, all that type of stuff. Evidently someone just used NOLA as a "control" and only applied their theories to other cities. Huh? Yeah, I said the same thing. I'm not defending the officials, I'm right in there with you on questioning this. (If you'd really like to explore the political side of this, the resources are out there. One of LA's congress-folk is the daughter of a once NOLA mayor, blah, blah, blah. Sorry, I won't go down that road here but it's out there if you look for it.)
They sure did which means that there was plenty of time to bus out those who wanted to leave. Were those people evacuated or not?
Yes there was. Were they evacuated or not? I don't know. I'd like to think that many, many of them were or else this coverage we're seeing would be a lot worse.
If not then someone owes it to those left behind and their loved ones to find out why not.
While I agree 110% with you on this one, the time for that will come later. Now is not the time to assign blame. There's plenty of time for that later and I assure you it's coming if it hasn't started already. For the time being, we need to be focussed on helping those who are still there, getting them to a safe location, feeding/housing them etc. We'll destroy political ambitions later, let's just take care of those who need to be taken care of.
[rant] commercial break:
When I came home last night and turned on the TV for coverage as I've done for 5 days now, the first thing I saw was a family with a 5 month old baby. They had been holed up in their attic for 3 days because of the flood waters. I am a heating and air conditioning service technician. I work in attics every single day. Let me clue y'all in to the climate of your average Southern attic once the clouds are gone. It's about 150 degrees during the heat of the day. No air is moving, no ventilation (especially when the power is out), nothing but hot! Imagine having to use your t-shirt to pick up the service door of your furnace or air handler because it burns your hand when you touch it bare-handed. It's hot! I don't know if that baby I saw on TV last night made it, but he didn't look good when I saw him. In my prior life I was trained as a combat life-saver. I know heat stress, heat exhaustion, and heat stroke when I see it. I truly hope he made it...........
end [rant] commercial break.
Ego. For some reason we keep telling ourselves that we can outsmart Mother Natrure and then time and time again Mother Nature proves us wrong.
Possibly. If what you just said is true, then why do people still flock to coastal cities? I don't know either, but they do it anyway. They know the danger is there, but they disregard it for myriad reasons. Reasons known only to them. I live in Columbus, Georgia. By Mapquest's standards I'm about 190 miles from Panama City Beach, Florida. (Not really sure what routes they're using but my odometer's never reached that number.) I say that because everytime a hurricane hits the Florida panhandle, we're the next to get the goodies, so to speak. We had the fortune of receiving 4 of these wonderful gifts of Mother Nature last year. We got about 15 minutes of rain from Katrina, north Georgia was hit harder than we were. Basically, it doesn't matter how far you remove yourself from the bad areas, you're still going to be affected. Why do people still want to live in those areas knowing that the threat is possibly imminent? I don't know but I'm about 100 miles away and it still affects me. How far away do we have to be?
You're probably right and while my question may be ill timed I mean in no way to distract from the tragedy of what is occuring right now.
I never took your question that way and I understand exactly what you meant when you mentioned it! :)
I know that the more important question is what can be done now to get refugees out but that doesn't change the fact that as I watch this suffering from the safety of my own living room I can't help but wonder why more wasn't done to get them out when the getting would have been good.
Truth be told, I'm sitting here in the safety of my living room asking the same questions. Questions that I don't have answers to but questions that will have to be answered in the near future!
I apologise if my timing is offensive.
Not at all, at least not to me. I've almost reached my limits as far as coverage goes. I'm sure you've heard about the stupidity that took place in Atlanta yesterday about the gas situation. It reached us as well. I really want to just ignore it, but being the news whore that I am, I can't. As a human being, I can't. I'm too close to the situation to ignore it.
At any rate, I hope my post isn't coming off wrong either and that you understand that asking these questions is just part of my way of wrapping my head and my heart around this nightmare.
You and me both! It didn't come across wrong in any way, at least not to me. Yes, I understand why you're asking the questions you are, I've been doing the same thing every night for about 3 or 4 days now. I've lost count.
I apologise for any spelling and/or grammar errors.
:) I have a 10 month old so I know exactly what you're talking about! I'll keep the Grammar Goddess off your back! :)
Sorry to everyone else for this being so long. I felt I owed it to wickedsweet to explain my comments. Y'all were warned! :)
wickedsweet
09-02-05, 02:45 PM
so if death befalls them, who am I to feel bad? I'm not going to lose sleep over consequences coming from other people's actions that were controllable
You're probably better off for feeling that way. I'm just not wired that way, I can't help but feel bad for the suffering of others regardless of the how's and why's behind it.
the "dumb decisions" you listed weren't life-threatening
The dermatologist that removed a less than healthy mole from my leg would probably be more than happy to tell you in vivid detail just how deadly melanoma can be. The fact that my own stupidity may one day kill me doesn't make the threat any easier to deal with, in fact it only makes it worse.
As for smoking, all smokers know just how deadly it can be and yet do it anyway. In my eyes that just makes their deaths even more tragic.
All I meant was that we all do stupid things that could very well kill us (speeding, not getting enough exercise, ect) in spite of knowing the risk involved and that when I look at people who pay the ultimate price for a dumb decision I can't help but think "there but for the grace of God.."
merry slug
09-02-05, 02:49 PM
Well I will start right now by not buying gas, not going to work, not making a living, not spending money, not adding to the economy, not paying my taxes, not contributing to the Iraqi mess, and not hoping for a 100 percent effort from this administration to resolve the gulf coast devestation.
:rollin
I think we all just need to be on the island :smokin
wickedsweet
09-02-05, 03:28 PM
Luethen-- Thank you for the time and thought that went into your reply. It would seem that we ,like most people, are just trying to come to terms with what has happened. It just seems that anymore it's tragedy after tragedy and the human toll is so overwhelming. I think my questions are born of the helplessness invoked by all that has gone on in the last few years.
If what you just said is true, then why do people still flock to coastal cities?
Here's one I can try to answer. Everyone has to live somewhere and where ever that may be there will exsist some threats. In PA we have tornados, floods, blizzards and PA drivers, in CA they have earthquakes, smog and mudslides, you guys have hurricanes, sharks and those same PA drivers when they are older and even more dangerous.Why live on the coast? Well, as I've been trying to explain to my husband for YEARS, I grew up on the beaches of MD and FLA and I can't imagine why anyone would want to live anywhere else but the beach (must be the surfer in me LOL). When he points out the dangers involved with costal living all I can say is that you have to respect those dangers and do your best to minimize them then prepare for them anyway. Just as you would anywhere. For me the trade off of a lifetime spent surfing, boating and just enjoying the ocean breeze would be well worth the risk. Besides as a paranoid, germ obsessed, mother of 3 I would pick up my kids and run the minute I heard the words "storm surge".
I have a 10 month old so I know exactly what you're talking about! I'll keep the Grammar Goddess off your back!
Thank you, it seems that with each child I've had my ability to manage grown up language has clearly suffered.:\
I felt I owed it to wickedsweet to explain my comments.
While you didn't own me anything I appreciate that you took the time to reply and did so in such a kind, thoughtful way.
Don't want to be mean or anything about U.S. politics... After all, I am French and our politicians are not better than this dear W...
I'll just say that I think a lot about the people out there in Louisiana, Mississippi and anywhere else this damn Katrina went. I live in the Caribbean and therefore kind of knows what it might look like. Of course there were all kind of mistakes made over the years that leaded to the situation today, but no one deserve such a catastrophy.
Hope u will stand up guys and prove that the hurricane will not win.
Send u as much courage as I can to go through that
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