Asian Stereotyping present???

[ralph]

Hi all,

I'm in Singapore, so i only just stumbled across this tv series.

But I've read many of the summaries and to me, it seems that it's another USA example of making the exotic beautiful Asian woman living under the thumb of an oppressive Asian culture and oh-so-bad husband...and presumably to be rescued by the much-more-decent-American later on.

Any Asians reading this have any thoughts about this? Am I wrong?

Cheers,

Ralph

[Mattie]

Welcome to LOST-TV ralph.

I don't think they fit stereotypes at all. Her husband has been protective of her, but through the flashbacks this is all explained and it really helps out with why Jin is the way he is.

It's all explained in time you just have to keep watching the episodes.

[azteclady]

ralph, allow me to add my welcome to KathyFan2's!

As he said, both Jin and Sun characters evolve during the course of the season, and while House of the Rising Sun (an early, Sun-centric episode), seems to show Jin in a terrible and admittedly stereotypical light, the perspective changed with ... In Translation (a later, Jin-centric episode).

You may want to read what both actors have to say about their rôles by checking out the different interviews and other news pieces that are linked in the "... in the media" threads pinned at the top of this and Yunjin Kim's forums. Also, please read our exclusive interview (http://www.lost-tv.com/exclusives/ddk031105.html) with Daniel Dae Kim, an excellent read!

So as you watch the series, and read some of the quality stuff around here, you'll hopefully find that there's no exploitation, and will enjoy the show for what it is.

[5MinuteMjr]

Stereotyping is a major concern whenever Asian characters are brought into play in any television series. I was concerned too, but after watching the back story and the development of the characters to date I think that the writers have stayed away rather successfully from stereotyping. They have done a good job of making it look like they were leading to the same old stereotypes only to veer away with a good back story or poignant moment.
Hopefully they will continue this way

[anarane saralonde]

There was a thread a couple weeks ago discussing the Asian characters on the show you might want to check out:

Asian characters (http://p073.ezboard.com/flosttheunofficalforumfortheabcseriesfrm2.showMess ageRange?topicID=2675.topic&start=1&stop=20)

You'll have to weed through the posts to find the actual topic of Asian stereotyping as several of the posts kinda ran amok throughout the thread.


"This is my sandbox, I'm not allowed to go in the deep end." - Ralph Wiggum

edited to correct link formatting.

[Chance Gardener]

I'd have to say Ralph, if there was any stereotyping, it was more gender based and not racially based.

The first few weeks, folks were bashing Jin for being a misogynistic SOB. There was some speculation as to whether or not this was cultural (not really racial, although the two are tied together somewhat) but the consensus in general was that Jin was just an ass.

At the time, I didn't think so and am glad the following shows have borne out my thinking.

But overall, I'd have to say Jin (and Sun) have portrayed Koreans in an excellent light. And their good-bye scene at the end of the last episode was some damn fine acting. To have the intensity and passion of their feelings come through the limiting factor of having to rely on sub-titles to understand what they were saying was some amazing acting in my opinion. Some of the best on the show all season.

[ralph]

Well I'm glad that it seems to have panned out nicely. I've only seen parts of shows, but I think I can see that it's not just the Korean couple that have their problems

I also like how not all the survivors are Ken and barbie babes too.

[anarane saralonde]

edited to correct link formatting.

Thanks Az

.....their good-bye scene at the end of the last episode was some damn fine acting......Some of the best on the show all season.

Ebert and Gardener? :p


"This is my sandbox, I'm not allowed to go in the deep end." - Ralph Wiggum

[Gadjoproject]

Ralph, I hear what you're saying and understand how you feel. Unless you're Asian, it's hard to explain.

Want to really get angry about the portrayal of Asian men? Check out Amy Tan's Joy Luck Club.

To be fair, check out the first part of the finale. There's a white couple at the airport who clearly have stereotypes in mind when they refer to Jin and Sun. In this situation, the whites are portrayed in a negative light compared to the Korean couple.

[anarane saralonde]

Gadjoproject says:
There's a white couple at the airport who clearly have stereotypes in mind when they refer to Jin and Sun. In this situation, the whites are portrayed in a negative light compared to the Korean couple.

Though I know the aforementioned couple at the airport were there just to add to the storyline, I am hoping against all hope we'll see them again in a later episode as survivors from the tail section of the plane. I'd positively love to see the expression on that woman's face once she remembered Sun and realized Sun understood every demeaning thing she said at the table.


"This is my sandbox, I'm not allowed to go in the deep end." - Ralph Wiggum

[ralph]

Joy Luck Club?

No thanks- I find that most "Asian" books on best seller's lists are written by Asian women and usually involve down trodden asian women, oppressive Asian society and mean and unfaithful Asian men.

With 10 to 15 million Asians in the US, you would think at least ONE asian male would be capable of writing a book.

But back to Lost and Daniel...

I find Daniel is acting better in this series, speaking in Korean, than when I saw him in Babylon 5 Crusades.

[Mattie]

I'd positively love to see the expression on that woman's face once she remembered Sun and realized Sun understood every demeaning thing she said at the table

Agreed. That'd make for quite the embarassment and wake up call for that racist bit--. :)

[chrisberni]

I find Daniel is acting better in this series, speaking in Korean, than when I saw him in Babylon 5 Crusades.

That's where I discovered him! :D And I guess part of it is that he gets more to do in Lost. They had only scratched the surface of what promised to be a very interesting character, by the time Crusade got cancelled.

[Gadjoproject]

Ralph,

I'll try to write that book for ya :)

[ralph]

hehe- the problem is publishing it, not writing it dude ! :)

Actually, I'm surprised they even had a husband for Ms Kim..usually they have a Caucasian hubby, or the korean hubby wont be on the plane, and she would slowly fall inlove with some other White dude....

You can see it with most other Asian actresses...they all have white hubbies or bf's..

Lucy Liu, Sandra Oh, Linda Park, Bai Ling.

Even Harry Potter get's Yellow Fever!!!!

It's bad and sad man....

But Daniel's cool..he looks strong too...no wimpy nerd look!

WHat's the bet the Island is really a secret nuclear testing ground for North Korea? ;p

[azteclady]

C'mon, ralph! Read a bit more around here!

Most of us are extremely happy that Daniel gets to play Jin. He's just perfect for the rôle, isn't he?

Nuclear testing site: well, if you visit the Theories and Speculations forum, and check drabauer's LOST Theories Index, you'll see that many people have thought the LOST island is a testing ground for many different things - but the nuclear tests are usually associated with the much maligned French, not the North Koreans.

[jcrew1179]

My dad and mom are chinese and He's very mysoginistic and domineering over my mom, so i wouldn't say its a stereotype. Most men, even caucasions are domineering over their wives - they dont call them wifebeaters for nothing.

[anarane saralonde]

Though they usually go hand in hand in most situations, still, domineering and abusive are two different things. You can be domineering without being abusive although, on the flipside, being abusive without being domineering is rare in most cases.

I've worked for two Asian men at various times in the past and both of them were very domineering towards women, including their wives and daughters. Each had high expectations of the female role in the household and within the family structure. Being Asian myself and raised in a Caucasian family (growing up here in the US), I found their attitudes towards women intolerable and outdated. With men like these, it's no wonder the Asian male stereotype still exists although I can't apply this kind of behavior with ALL Asian men anymore than I can believe ALL Asian women are behaviorally submissive.


"Lisa's bad dancing makes my feet sad." - Ralph Wiggum

[TIC]

What episodes have you seen so far?

I was also afraid of the couple being stereotyped in the beginning... but after watching thier backstory and everything, I found out that I was afraid for nothing.

Theres hardly any kind of steoreotyping in lost.


Now ralph.. you are sounding quite like a sexist... but i'm most probably reading it all wrong. :)

[3rdStar]

IMHO, all the characters on LOST are on a journey that will lead them to either redemption or perdition.

Jin turned his back on everything in his character and background that made him the man that Sun had fallen in love with. He had been warm, open, sensitive with a good sense of fun until he yielded to Sun's father. Sun knew the danger of his involvement with her father but I suppose she didn't warn Jin because on some level she wanted her father and husband to get along. She paid dearly for it. Watched as the man of her dreams became the man of her nightmares and she felt partially responsible for what happened to him. If only they had trusted each other fully this might not have happened. Perhaps their journey is about learning to trust each other ? Restoring their full measure of humanity ? In any case I don't think this has anything to do with 'Asian' stereotyping. ( not that such stereotyping doesn't exsist ).

[Brianna4 8 15 16 23 42]

I had the same bad feeling when the show was first talked

about. I thought here we go again:rolleyes more negative

stereotype portrayals of my asian sisters and brothers. it

didn't ease any worries when I saw the characters don't

speak english. and then see that when a strong Asian man

finally gets a main tv role they show his *strength* by

dominating his wife. :rolleyes and a beautiful Asian woman

kowtowing to his abuse and then have the westerner save

her from big bad foreign man. It's not like the show could

have Asian Americans could they? You know, Americans of

Asian descent raised in America, culturally mixed or all

american culture, no accents, assimilated, acculturated,

educated. There are millions of us out there. You think

having Michael from Africa would fly?

Truthfully I don't look for this stuff or even really think about

it much. But Asian Americans know it whether they admit it

not. Watching this show though put all that at rest. Why?

Because the show is just too good. :rollin LOVE IT!

This is the best show I've ever seen and it has nothing to do

with Asians as some of the main characters. That's a big

added bonus though. Even better Lost has treated the

Korean couple with dignity and respect.

They've made them fascinatingl and given them love that's

passionate, complex, and real. Just beautiful. How often do

you see an Asian man represented with dare I say heroic

qualities? Or an Asian women depicted as understanding her

man, herself, her relationship and finding ways to forgive,

understand, correct, and stay with him instead of leaving him.

DDK is quite a hottie too, although to be perfectly honest

they're are KA men that are MUCH better looking than him.

sorry DDK:D we love you and you are a superb actor, there

are though korean men, actor models easily as tall and

gorgeous as Sawyer. Believe it. There should be room for all.

Maybe now they'll get their chance. Let's all not lose sight

of the fact that this *could be* a real watershed moment for

Asian American actors. Baby steps. I really hope Daniel

and Yunjin survive and we see them in more central roles in

the coming seasons. If DDK is to be believed we will.

[Hodgepodge]

Brianna4 8 15 16 23 42, let me welcome you to Lost-TV. I'm sure you're going to enjoy the community. Make sure to read the Welcome forum, it's eas to get lost. Now to your post.

First off, I'm not Asian! But realizing before the series aired there was going to be an Asian couple, I suspected the usual portrayal as you did. And in those first couple of episodes, that's what we got. But then we got to see HotRS, and it touched me warmly. It's still one of my favorite episodes. And that usual portrayal turned into something we Anglo-American never see. Asians are just like us! They love. They have fears. They have ambition! Just like everybody else.

And then TPTB gave us the honor of viewing ...In Translation. Which happens to reside at the top of my Favorite list. Just thinking about it now, brings a smile to my face.

I'm hoping TPTB delve deeper into this Korean culture. It can nothing but help our understanding and acceptance.

And again, welcome!

[jaleta]

ralph wrote:

With 10 to 15 million Asians in the US, you would think at least ONE asian male would be capable of writing a book.

asian-american men DO write books. and there are books about asian-american men, although, i’m no authority on how many are out there. for example, however:

-the novels by author leonard chang, including his mystery series "over the shoulder," "fade to clear," and "underkill." all follow the life of an asian male protagonist.

-maxine hong kingston's "china men," told from the perspective of chinese MALE immigrants to the united states. (though i have to profess i haven’t read this one)

so at least one asian man has written a book, several, in fact! there are enough generalizations about minorities out there, let’s not compound the problem by making our own :\

[Jindo]

With 10 to 15 million Asians in the US, you would think at least ONE asian male would be capable of writing a book.
Umm... Has no one here heard of Chang-rae Lee? Only one of the (currently) hottest American writers period, Asian or no. And, while not American, Ha Jin is also a pretty big name (writes in English), and then there's Kazuo Ishiguro, a Brit ("Remains of the Day").

These are only the most famous names, of course. There are plenty of others who're not so well known.