Thanks for bumping this thread, Mo.
First, to any reader, I am aware that we have been given a seemingly simple answer: the entity that was MiB, and now Locke, has been Smokey all along. That answer raises a few questions, though. And some of the answers to those questions seem to imply that the simple answer is false, or at least not the whole truth.
I am also aware of some of the statements TPTB have made regarding this. As usual, I will ignore them. The reason for this is that I believe that TPTB will never give answers that will undermine the episodes we have yet to see.
For now I will entertain both options: "MiB is Smokey," and "MiB and Smokey are not the same." I am not really interested in that particular answer. I feel, however, that this stance will shed some more light on the ones I am interested in.
For anyone who feels like telling me it is obviously one or the other, please consider also giving me the answers to the other questions.
Alright, back to you, Mo.
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Originally Posted by Mr Mo
So, Bram and his buddies would have gone back, and hurried more, to get to Jacob sooner, or perhaps stopped the Locke avatar from getting off of Hydra island, or perhaps even killed Ben there. Then they would have no reason to go back and do whichever of those things. Paradox.
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Bram's team was odd. They seemed blissfully unaware of the specifics of their mission, and Bram's boasting to Frank that he would be safe with them seemed premature. They didn't even seem to know that Jacob's life was in danger, or who this other Locke was.
LA X, part 1
[Bram and three men enter the chamber. One man is aiming a handgun while Bram and the other two have their rifles at the ready.
BRAM: Where's Jacob?
MIB AS LOCKE: Jacob is dead.
[The clicking of the guns ready to fire is heard.]
BRAM: Who are you?
MIB AS LOCKE: Don't worry about me. [place knife on the ground] Let's talk about you.
MIB AS LOCKE: I'm assuming that you are what? Jacob's body guards and that you came all the way to this island to protect him? Well I have good news. Jacob burned up right there in that fire. Therefore there is nothing left for you to protect. You can go. You're free.
[Bram fires his rifle at Man in Black/Locke. The bullet reaches its target and falls to the ground. Another bullet is fired. Ben ducks for cover. A third bullet is fired. Man in Black/Locke moves off to his right. The other men start shooting.
BRAM: Kill him!
[The firing continues.]
BRAM: Spread out! Get him!
[After eight rounds are fired there is silence.]
BRAM: Where is he?
[Bram walks to where he shot the bullet. The head is flattened showing it did hit something. Ben continues to hide and stay clear of the fray. As the men look around there is a howling sound followed by the sound of clacking and a sound similar to the tail of a rattlesnake. All the men focus on the entry to the chamber. The smoke monster fills the entryway and enters the chamber. Ben is in awe of this presence. The men shoot then scurry to find safety, one of them is picked up by the smoke monster and flung across the chamber and bounces off a wall. The remaining men start shooting at the smoke monster. Another man is picked up, raised then flung into a pillar. The smoke monster has a tentacle like plume of smoke for each of them, less Ben. Again, the smoke monster picks up a man and flings him over the circle of fire and toward Jacob's tapestry. Only Bram is left alive and he quickly pours an ash circle and steps inside of it. The smoke monster stops since it cannot cross the ash circle. Bram stands in place facing the smoke monster that then rips some stone from the ceiling. A rock hits Bram in the chest causing him to lose his balance and falls out of the ash circle. The monster picks up Bram and tosses him about. As he is thrown into the loom, it collapses. Bram cries out in agony. Finally Bram is flung one last time and is impaled on a piece of wood broken from the support of the loom.. Bram and all his men are dead. Ben cowers in fear and soon realizes that the smoke has retreated and the sounds are fading. He is now in complete silence. He gets up to look around. He turns once and finds the Locke imposter standing behind him.]
MIB AS LOCKE: I'm sorry you had to see me like that.
Bram simply has no clue about Jacob's Nemesis. He does seem to know a bit about Smokey, and that he's done something bad enough to fear for his life.
So, let's continue for a bit with the premise of this thread that he was about to cause paradox.
As you say, his team might have wanted to do things differently, prevent Jacob's murder. It is what devoted bodyguards would do. That would also fit with Bram trying to protect himself, instead of abandoning the idea altogether. (And I mean, really abandoning it, not just some lie he concentrates on.)
But we also have the outrigger scene in the future. I think we can safely assume that it is a future where impostor Locke is alive, and Jacob dead. It's already written. Any action to defeat impostor Locke might already be paradoxical.
Also, killing Jacob required a loophole. With Jacob dead, MiB might be the new man in charge of the Island, beneficiary to the same kind of rules that protected Jacob. If this is the case, then somehow Smokey-fooling rules were met by impostor Locke, and not by Bram and his team.
Eko was killed when he ran after Yemi, shouting "who are you?" Bram asks impostor Locke the same. Is it a forbidden question? With Eko we could link it to doubt about his own life, about who he was himself. I don't think that holds for Bram, but we know too little about him to tell.
Maybe Bram was a "bad guy" after all, because he tried to blow up the universe by causing paradox.
Two other observations:
Richard urges the people outside not to shoot impostor Locke. To me, it seemed that Richard feared triggering Smokey. This is before he realizes who Locke really is. All he knows, really, is that Jacob is dead --assuming the fireworks conveyed that specific message. This leads to some other observations:
* Apparently, Smokey's appearance is not controlled. Shoot Locke, Smokey appears. That seems rather mechanical. An uncontrolled action is a weakness, that can be exploited.
* Richard knows the entity that is Locke. Yet, with all the weirdness going on --Locke in a box, two people visiting Jacob, shadow-statue people-- he never made the connection that Jacob was in danger. Ilana, Bram, Richard, they were all just quibbling to see who could when see Jacob.
The other observation is that Smokey appeared from the other side of the room. Again. This has been consistent with Yemi, Alex, and now Locke. In chat, someone suggested that it was a Bruce Wayne/Batman thing: Batman always appears from somewhere else. While this may be true, it indicates that we still miss the process. On a few occasions we have seen Bruce Wayne go through his secret door, to his secret cave, don his Batman suit, jump in the car, and appear as Batman. While unimaginable, perhaps, without that sequence, the identity of Batman remained unclear.
And I think this process has been kept from us intentionally.
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We saw Bram use ashes to create a circle around himself inside the Foot. It appeared that Smokey was unable to get at him directly thereafter, and had to use its animal cunning to Smoke him.
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Yes, that has always been my impression of Smokey: animal-like.
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The Others at the Temple seem to be preparing defenses to ward off Smokey, gathering red flowers and collecting ash. Why? If they have the capacity to defend themselves from it, why not have those defenses in place at all times?
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Exactly. The Temple was safe. Jacob was safe. Those two may be related. But whatever the case, they must have known about Smokey going on a rampage now and then. He lived in their cellar, although it is possible they never realized. They were not concerned at all about an attack, until they learned that Jacob was dead.
There is also some discrepancy between what the Others know. My impression was that all the Others in the Temple would already know not to shoot the enemy. And with "it's to keep HIM out," they seemed also to be aware of the enemy's identity. Although, again, it's possible they just know that Smokey is a who. Something the long-time leader of the Others, Ben, never knew, it seems.
"Oh, the water is murky, hmm, what could it be?"
I missed the flowers, by the way. I have to rewatch.
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I think they may be planning to cause a paradox, and do not wish to get Smoked first.
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Maybe. They are well prepared for when Jacob is dead. Preventive actions may be unnecessary, if you can always introduce them later on. Much easier to counter a specific act, then to try to take all possible acts into account.
It is clear that they do fear Smokey, either as their enemy, or a tool usable by their enemy, or a force of nature that their actions will trigger.
I have some more, but they will go into another post. I can briefly touch upon them, though.
* Christian's "soul" (and body) is missing from the other timeline. I think it has to do with him being some kind of singularity --not spread out across realities. We've seen Christian himself. And he, or Claire, seems to be the most likely candidate the Others want to talk to Jack about.
* If Locke is Smokey, then it seems that only one "avatar" can be active at the time, and that the consciousness jumps from one to the other. That in itself might make it possible that the Smokey avatar can be controlled by some other consciousness.
* The Others in the Temple were expecting Jacob. Not in the sense of "we've been waiting a long time for him," but more like, "well, he's due for his yearly visit, when will it be?" This might tell us more about that darn cabin.
Well, that's it for now. I have to think some more.
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