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Old 05-13-17, 06:49 PM   #41
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Re: The MOST Annoying Character on LOST is

I think the primary difference with Claire's dream was that it wasn't merely a dream. It was a Dream, as we used to say in the old Theories and Speculation forum. It was a particularly lucid dream, and it was a premonition. Claire did wind up giving Aaron away; there were two John Lockes, one light, one dark - every little aspect of that Dream was used to foreshadow. Hardly an original trope from a writer's perspective.

From Claire's perspective, i think the idea was specifically supposed to be that she felt that it wasn't just a nightmare, and in fact she turned out to be right, it wasn't just a nightmare at all. Bob Sacamano at one time theorized that these "special" dreams were communications from Smoky/MiB/Brother. We never did get any definitive proof that they were nor that they weren't, but the i think the idea is worth considering.

ETA: He also speculated at times that the Dreams were sent by Jacob; and at other times by an as-yet (at the time) unidentified third party.
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Old 05-15-17, 10:13 PM   #42
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Re: The MOST Annoying Character on LOST is

I take your point about Claire's dream being quite lucid and very realistic, and therefore terrifying. Locke and Charlie also reported having such dreams; they seemed to be common on the island.
It wasn't that Claire woke up screaming that I found unrealistic. It was that she seemed to take a breath and go at it again. Claire exaggerates her hysteria, not just in this scene but in several others.
She reminds me of young girls who learn how to make eardrum piercing screams, and who then emit their ear blasters in faux terror with glee. They are good at it and they like it.
The actress who plays Claire just goes to the hysteria well too much and too often.
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Old 05-16-17, 06:14 AM   #43
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Re: The MOST Annoying Character on LOST is

Special Mention again for Michael. There are many things to say about Michael but in this post I will mention just one.
I am rewatching season 1 ep 14 "Special". About 5 minutes into the show Michael tracks down Walt and finds him with Locke who is teaching him how to throw a knife and stick it into a tree.
Michael is upset (no surprise there) with Walt, and especially with Locke. He tells Locke that if they were back home he would call the police on him for letting Walt handle that knife.
The hunting knife was about the size of a kitchen knife used for carving meat. Michael acted as if it were a grenade.
How can a responsible parent act that way? Generations of boys for centuries have been given knives from much younger ages (Walt was 10 years old at the time). They were taught how to handle them safely and how to use them properly, and no harm befell them because of it.
It might be argued that Michael was looking for a reason to criticize Locke. While that may be true, it still doesn't explain why he would blow up a non issue like this.

He might as well have said to Locke "What are you doing? Are you trying to make a man out of my son?! I want him to grow up to be a pussy who is scared of his own shadow. I want him to avoid books for fear of getting paper cuts while turning the pages. I want him unable to fend for himself, to whimper and cower in the corner, dependent upon others for his most basic needs."
Sounds silly doesn't it? Well so does Michael.
[I know Hollywood liberals in charge of the film industry like to rail against all sorts of weapons. They are loathe to hold individuals responsible for their behavior, and focus blame on objects instead. I think it is part of liberalism's attempt to create a 'religion free' moral high ground. They need to display fake moral outrage over invented issues to compensate for their rejection of traditional moral standards. They refuse to hold people responsible for their actions (unless they are conservatives) and they reject the rule of law, preferring to pick and choose which laws to enforce, depending upon the people involved. By vilifying and focusing blame on inanimate objects they avoid dealing with the criminal and immoral behavior of their constituents.
To work in Hollywood one must go along with the PC attitudes and espouse the political positions which the liberal execs hold. Perhaps this is why Michael had to say this. ]

Last edited by topcat; 05-16-17 at 07:22 AM.
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Old 05-16-17, 09:12 AM   #44
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Re: The MOST Annoying Character on LOST is

I don't want you to take this as a "warning" because it's not, it's merely a warning:

Years ago this forum was torn in half over discussion that revolved around political interpretations of LOST. A lot of feelings were hurt, a lot of members were lost, and a lot of posts and threads wound up deleted and/or edited down to a "."

For many years after that, no political posts were allowed whatsoever, If you'd made that post in 2009, it would have been edited HARD and you would have been given one and only one warning never to do anything like that again. I know because it happened to me.

Today our rules and guidelines are much looser, so here it goes: it's okay for you to post political opinions. It's okay for other people to post political opinions. But there's a slightly fuzzy line when people start responding to each other's politically involved posts, and that kind of back-and-forth discussion can become very heated and very destructive faster than you might believe possible.

We have a sister site specifically for discussing politics and religion, it's called mypolitics-forum.com, and there are links for it all over the place. We even started a sub-forum called Politics in Pop Culture, and in that forum you'll find a thread for discussing the political implications of LOST, and i even started a thread to talk about the political statements made by the Star Wars series. I never did even half of what i'd intended, but at least the place is there.

So in closing this post, i'm going to try to restate this as clearly as i think i cam: You can post what you think were political implications of LOST, and others can post their opinions, too, but please don't discuss each other's opinions on those specific matters. I know it may sound silly at first, but please believe me that this is a rule for VERY good reason. If you feel compelled to get into a back-and-forth discussion about it, there is a place, and if you have ANY trouble finding it, please don't hesitate to ask me and i'll go fetch you a link.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, topcat, and i hope you don't find it draconian, i assure you it's there for good reason.
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gift cards make great gifts both for shoppers who are lazy and/or have a lot of gifts to buy. They're also a shrewd choice if there are individuals in your life for whom it is difficult to shop. When bought through the astore, they also help support this site, which isn't self-sufficient and doesn't hold fund-raisers or any of that other crap.

Please consider doing at least some of your holiday shopping through our astore this year.
Link: http://losttv-forum.com/forum/index.php?pageid=astore0

Here's a link for general help info on finding amazon goodies through the astore.: http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=85061e

As the old woman said when she peed in the sea, "Every little bit helps."
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Old 05-16-17, 02:29 PM   #45
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Re: The MOST Annoying Character on LOST is

Mo is right. It can get very messy and painful. I myself have been very pummeled, and have to bite my fingers at times.

I have to exert a lot of restraint. I know I'm outnumbered. And that's about all I'm comfortable of saying on this subject.

Go to mypolitics, like Mo suggested.
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Old 05-17-17, 08:50 PM   #46
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Re: The MOST Annoying Character on LOST is

Thanks guys. Yeah I realized I was possibly getting into sensitive subject matter, even though it was tangentially related to the subject.
And I can imagine how easily it could inflame passions and even incite raging arguments and unpleasantness.
I will abide by the guidelines you laid out.
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Old 05-20-17, 08:33 AM   #47
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Re: The MOST Annoying Character on LOST is

Kate.

This only takes into consideration characters around for multiple seasons who were consistently a focal point of plot lines.

Her arc was limited. The actress is average.

I found her more interesting early on, when there was the possibility she would be dangerous and mostly self-interested.

I felt that provided a better foil to "self-less" Jack.

That being said, I do not dislike Kate.

She's merely the "Most Annoying" for me.
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Old 05-20-17, 09:10 AM   #48
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Re: The MOST Annoying Character on LOST is

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It might be argued that Michael was looking for a reason to criticize Locke. While that may be true, it still doesn't explain why he would blow up a non issue like this. ]

Imagine something you dislike and/or disagree with.

Now imagine another adult instructing your child (if you don't have any, imagine someone you have loved) in how to do that thing without your knowledge or consent. Now imagine that person doesn't have critical thinking skills, or that they haven't fully developed them.

Would that be a non issue to you?

This touches on a topic that has been a concern in many, if not all, civilizations that have attempted to train their young/inexperienced/naive through knowledge.

Often, it's difficult discerning who or what agency should have the ultimate say in a any formal or informal learning.

Even nations such as the U.S. have difficulty deciding how to even assess learning, never really deciding if it's growth or proficiency that is a more important factor.

I could continue but my point is it's a subject that deserves a lot of thought and constructive debate.

P.S.
I am glad to see someone posting thought provoking ideas on this forum.

I am currently doing a re-watch of Lost and decided to see if this old stomping ground was active at all.
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Old 05-21-17, 06:44 PM   #49
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Re: The MOST Annoying Character on LOST is

Quote:
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Imagine something you dislike and/or disagree with.

Now imagine another adult instructing your child (if you don't have any, imagine someone you have loved) in how to do that thing without your knowledge or consent. Now imagine that person doesn't have critical thinking skills, or that they haven't fully developed them.

Would that be a non issue to you?

This touches on a topic that has been a concern in many, if not all, civilizations that have attempted to train their young/inexperienced/naive through knowledge.

Often, it's difficult discerning who or what agency should have the ultimate say in a any formal or informal learning.

Even nations such as the U.S. have difficulty deciding how to even assess learning, never really deciding if it's growth or proficiency that is a more important factor.

I could continue but my point is it's a subject that deserves a lot of thought and constructive debate.

P.S.
I am glad to see someone posting thought provoking ideas on this forum.

I am currently doing a re-watch of Lost and decided to see if this old stomping ground was active at all.
I get your point I think. For a parent to find some other adult, whom they had not authorized to do so, teaching their child or presuming to determine what is right for them, would be incredibly upsetting.
When Locke told Michael that he thought Walt should be allowed to develop.... I have forgotten the quote now, but I recall thinking that Locke had certainly overstepped, that he had no business telling Michael how to raise his child.
I get all that.

My issue was with Michael blowing up about Walt being allowed to handle a knife. The way he reacted you would have thought Walt had been given a live grenade to play with.
Now Michael may have simply been looking to find anything to make an argument. But I thought that issue was a stupid one to argue over. What if someone had handed Walt a carving knife, or some other large kitchen knife? Would Micheal threaten to call the police over that?
The real issue, the one which made sense to be upset about, was Locke presuming to usurp Michael's parental role.

But the idea that Walt should never be exposed to anything with the potential to do harm is absurd. The world is filled with objects which can conceivably cause harm to people if they are not careful, and do not act responsibly. The responsible, mature manner with which to proceed is to teach the child responsible behavior, rather than seeking to do the impossible task of preventing the child ever coming into contact with something which could cause harm if mishandled.

Michael had reason to be upset, but the knife was not it.
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Old 05-22-17, 03:20 AM   #50
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Re: The MOST Annoying Character on LOST is

On a personal note, I didn't take great issue with what Locke did. I would say hunting knives are relatively harmless and given the circumstances (lost on a seemingly deserted island) skill with one might prove useful, even for a ten year old.


My point, however, was more in regard to the idea that there are many people with varying ideas about what constitutes "proper" conduct in any given situation.

Fortunately, we have peacekeepers operating in society (I'm thinking ideally about the police force and legislators here) that can help broker non-violent resolutions between aggrieved parties.

The island provided the writers with an interesting means of talking about societal issues, such as the one we are discussing, without the trappings of society.

IMO, the writing team did a decent job exploring a number of issues that many of us will encounter in our lives.

I think that's at least partially evident with the fact that people today are still thinking critically and expressing constructive ideas about the show.
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