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Old 09-21-17, 02:50 AM   #4221
draz48
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Re: What are you reading?

I'm listening to Bird Box by Josh Malerman. I like how it has smooth transitions from past to present, but not sure about the plot.

If someone would like a fun retro book, Ready Player One by Earnest Cline, is a quick read. It is about a vedio game programmer who makes an alternate world, then dies. To win his estate players must solve tasks. It has lots of references to the 80's and old video games. The plot is a bit predictable, but still a fun read.

Mr Mo-- I have been trapped in Disc World for almost a year! I read something heavy and then take a Pratchet break. Thank you for the recommendation, I have loved all the books. I can't decide if I like the witches or Death stories best.
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Old 09-21-17, 02:53 AM   #4222
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Re: What are you reading?

vonne:

I suppose mixing media was my idea, though they also tell us that memory is the second thing to go.

If i asked you to study Thus Spake Zarathustra, and offered to look at Guernica for as long as i could remain sane, what would such a bargain mean?

Frank Zappa once said, "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture."

________

Sandman is transcendant. Don't try to compare it nor analogize it with other4 art forms. It stands alone.

________

Furthermore, technically, i owe you nothing.


Um... soo... the next book is Speaker of the Damned?
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Old 09-21-17, 03:07 AM   #4223
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Re: What are you reading?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vonnegut View Post
I mean, I *DID* read the entire Sandman series, not just the first one.
*cough*miseed a few*cough*

But i think i'll take you up on the remaining three Ender's books.

Do you like Chaucher, btw?
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I've always appreciated your restraint, Mo
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Mo, I you
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gift cards make great gifts both for shoppers who are lazy and/or have a lot of gifts to buy. They're also a shrewd choice if there are individuals in your life for whom it is difficult to shop. When bought through the astore, they also help support this site, which isn't self-sufficient and doesn't hold fund-raisers or any of that other crap.

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Old 09-21-17, 05:57 AM   #4224
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Re: What are you reading?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vonnegut View Post
Did you know that most african-american Mormons are descendent from Mormon slaves who were owned by white Mormons? It's true. I like to think of you as an egalitarian, but that meme made me puke a little.
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I've always appreciated your restraint, Mo
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Mo, I you
Spoiler: notes
gift cards make great gifts both for shoppers who are lazy and/or have a lot of gifts to buy. They're also a shrewd choice if there are individuals in your life for whom it is difficult to shop. When bought through the astore, they also help support this site, which isn't self-sufficient and doesn't hold fund-raisers or any of that other crap.

Please consider doing at least some of your holiday shopping through our astore this year.
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Here's a link for general help info on finding amazon goodies through the astore.: http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=85061e

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Old 09-21-17, 10:39 AM   #4225
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Re: What are you reading?

Mo...Years back I read Ender's Game, found it intriguing but poorly written, decided to give Card another shot and read Speaker For the Dead. He's now on my "Persona Non Grata" list.

Spoiler: Speaker For the Dead plot


Card fully rips off Heinlein's Friday with Ender Wiggan's family, now settled on an alien world, learning about a planet colonized by Chinese who have been using genetic manipulation to create a line of children with extreme OCD. As the Chinese are all about conformity, the kids would, of course be ostracized so as soon as one is discovered it is isolated and raised to be a "seer". Card is blatantly racist here, assuming that conformity is something inherent in East Asian peoples. The Friday rip-off is a girl whose name translates as "Gloriously Bright". Like Heinlein's eponymous Artificial first-person-narrator, she has the ability to reach conclusions based upon seeming unrelated information. She's kept in a box, free to obsessively follow the grain of the wooden floorboards, fed a simple diet of rice and pickled veggies, and consulted by Ministers of the State, similar to the Old Man in Restaurant at the End of the Universe. I would call this ripping off both Heinlein and Adams in one character, but in Friday one of the things that Friday learns is that she was originally created to be used for just this purpose.
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Old 09-21-17, 11:50 AM   #4226
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Re: What are you reading?

Quote:
Originally Posted by draz48 View Post
I'm listening to Bird Box by Josh Malerman. I like how it has smooth transitions from past to present, but not sure about the plot.

If someone would like a fun retro book, Ready Player One by Earnest Cline, is a quick read. It is about a vedio game programmer who makes an alternate world, then dies. To win his estate players must solve tasks. It has lots of references to the 80's and old video games. The plot is a bit predictable, but still a fun read.

Mr Mo-- I have been trapped in Disc World for almost a year! I read something heavy and then take a Pratchet break. Thank you for the recommendation, I have loved all the books. I can't decide if I like the witches or Death stories best.
I found Bird Box to be a big let-down. I feel like it was trying to do something and just couldn't quite pull it off.

I had major issues with Ready Player One, but it can be fun, particularly for 80's fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Mo View Post
vonne:

I suppose mixing media was my idea, though they also tell us that memory is the second thing to go.

If i asked you to study Thus Spake Zarathustra, and offered to look at Guernica for as long as i could remain sane, what would such a bargain mean?

Frank Zappa once said, "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture."

________

Sandman is transcendant. Don't try to compare it nor analogize it with other4 art forms. It stands alone.

________

Furthermore, technically, i owe you nothing.


Um... soo... the next book is Speaker of the Damned?
I read TSZ in its entirety when I was like 15 and going through my Nietzsche phase. I don't know if I could pick it up again, I would end up laughing at my teenage self too much.

"Speaker for the Dead."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Mo View Post
*cough*miseed a few*cough*

But i think i'll take you up on the remaining three Ender's books.

Do you like Chaucher, btw?


Reason why I went into History for my major instead of English-- because of shit like Chaucer.

But no, I've read excerpts, for historical interest, but my desire to read that for pleasure is just about zero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Mo View Post
Did you know that most african-american Mormons are descendent from Mormon slaves who were owned by white Mormons? It's true. I like to think of you as an egalitarian, but that meme made me puke a little.
Yes. I wasn't trying to get deep with the meme I just like using reaction gifs.
When I read OSC, I have to separate his politics/religion from his work. Which is very easy for me to do, because a story is a story, and as a non-religious person I find all religions nearly equally repugnant-- if I was to shun any books by religious people (or with religious themes), I would not have much reading material.
Which, his religion tends not to come into his writing unbearably. It's very light. Even when it's extremely blatant (Alvin Maker series with is fantasy-version-Joe-Smith, and the Homecoming series which is sci-fi-version-Book-of-Mormon), it's not off-putting.
He does do rather strange things with gay characters, which tends to be more funny than anything else (I don't think the Ender series has any of that, but you have one in the Bean series that I can remember), and NONE of his characters can have sex before marriage, even if that means marrying them off when they are teenagers.
But, if I can handle C. S. Lewis, OSC isn't really a problem.

Edit to add: Surprisingly, considering the Mormon church's issues with race, I actually really like OSC for how he uses black characters-- in that, he doesn't do a Smurfs thing with them, they are regular characters. Bean is black, btw (or, half-black), but it's not a big deal, it's just a normal thing. Which is a bit refreshing.

Oh-- and I would, obviously, tell you to ignore TBC's spoiler material, even though most of it gets the plot wrong (like, hilariously inaccurate) and he appears to be talking about Xenocide, not Speaker for the Dead.
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Last edited by vonnegut; 09-21-17 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 09-21-17, 12:11 PM   #4227
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Re: What are you reading?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigCat View Post
Mo...Years back I read Ender's Game, found it intriguing but poorly written, decided to give Card another shot and read Speaker For the Dead. He's now on my "Persona Non Grata" list.

Spoiler: Speaker For the Dead plot


Card fully rips off Heinlein's Friday with Ender Wiggan's family, now settled on an alien world, learning about a planet colonized by Chinese who have been using genetic manipulation to create a line of children with extreme OCD. As the Chinese are all about conformity, the kids would, of course be ostracized so as soon as one is discovered it is isolated and raised to be a "seer". Card is blatantly racist here, assuming that conformity is something inherent in East Asian peoples. The Friday rip-off is a girl whose name translates as "Gloriously Bright". Like Heinlein's eponymous Artificial first-person-narrator, she has the ability to reach conclusions based upon seeming unrelated information. She's kept in a box, free to obsessively follow the grain of the wooden floorboards, fed a simple diet of rice and pickled veggies, and consulted by Ministers of the State, similar to the Old Man in Restaurant at the End of the Universe. I would call this ripping off both Heinlein and Adams in one character, but in Friday one of the things that Friday learns is that she was originally created to be used for just this purpose.
That's not the Speaker for the Dead plot.

Spoiler: Xenocide

That's part of book 3, Xenocide, and considering his side-plots with Japan (and with India and Thailand in the Bean series), he's DEFINITELY not saying that conformity is inherent in East Asian people

The character you're talking about was GENETICALLY MODIFIED TO HAVE SEVERE OCD ATTACKS IF SHE EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT REBELLING. Like, that's the major point and the plot of that entire side-track on Path. And half of her story is her trying to find a way out of the programming. The "godspoken" like her aren't ostracized, isolated, or brought up to be "seers" (lol wtf?), they are the ruling class (mirroring the meritocracy of ancient China) who are the scientists and scholars. The rich/privileged people.

And "kept in a box"? WHAT BOOK WERE YOU READING?
She lives in a very nice house with her father and their servants, which she leaves all the time, whenever she wants to.
Her father (and her) are consulted by Congress because they are very intelligent (part of the genetic manipulation) but it's not some kind of mystical "seer" thing-- the ruling class of that world are the brain trust of Starways Congress because they are just plain-ol' smart, and they don't tell the government what to do like in Adams' scenario, they are consultants who solve problems for them (like Qing-Jao's dad negotiating a treaty to end a rebellion). There is really no comparison to the Adams scenario. At all. That's like saying that Game of Thrones is like Restaurant at the End of the Universe, because Sandor Clegane goes to an inn at one point and eats some chickens.

And I guess you're making a joke about the food (pickled vegetables???), because at no point in the book does it even go into what she eats. Ever. I think the closest is at one point is says that she stops working and goes to have dinner (in her dining room, presumably, not in a box). Oh, and when everyone gets sick from the virus that cures them from genetic manipulation, she fixes a clear broth that she brings to the ones recovering from being sick (in her nice house, and in the village around it-- still not in a box).

Almost none of what you said actually happened, and the parts you did say were a small sub-plot of Book 3 of the entire series.
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Old 09-22-17, 01:46 AM   #4228
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Re: What are you reading?

Heck, Ender's Game was half a Starship Troopers rip-off itself. It's hard to write without ripping somebody off.

Hyperion won the Hugo for ripping off Chaucer. I'd rather read anything by Simmons than anything by Chaucer every day and twice on Fridays (but i advise against reading that Iliad on Mars series - i like weird in general, but this was not my cup of tea).

The thing about a library only having the first book in that series is that it's way too easy to finish it, put it down, go, "that was pretty cool." In fact, that happened to me. Then years later when i was organizing my dad's library one day, i found a sequel. "Hey, i remember the first book to this. It was okay." I recalled that the original had been a little clunky to read, being forced into the pilgrims tales format instead of having a more organic and easy-flowing narrative. I recalled that it had won some prestigious award, and noticed that the sequel hadn't. Today i'm very glad that i read the sequels, because each of the 4 books id better than the last.

________

TBC, i appreciate your input. Thank you.

_______________

I've decided to score Ender's Game a B. I don't intend to turn this post into a list of complaints against a book which i've just given a very strong grade; i ust want to take a moment to explain why i changed my mind a little. I was glad that Card was willing to talk openly about childhood violence, but after a day or two of thinking about it, i don't think he went very far into it, nor into a million other things that made daily life so difficult for small people. He made a very strong indictment against human nature, a nature that is developed when we're very young. I liked what Card did with this story. As i said in first post about it, there are too many things wrong with it to list, but there's even more right about it. I don't feel he delved as deeply as he should have, and there were parts of the story which felt very rushed. I didn't mind the lack of sex per se, but it definitely detracted from the realism of the story, especially in that the majority of the characters are children.

I've just given this novel a very good grade, and eventually i'll find the rest of the series. It's entirely possible that OSC will turn me off and i'll never return. I felt like i picked up on as few warning signs throughout the novel. I enjoyed David Eddings' first two cycles, until i suddenly realized that they were racist allegory. When it hit me, i was riding in the car, reading, and threw the book out the window. My dad was shocked, had never seen me to anything like that to a book since teething. I explained why and all the rest of the Eddings from the house went to a paper recycler that weekend. But for now, Card has at least earned the right for me to read his next book. I do hope his style tightens up, though, i went easy on this as it's a Freshman effort.
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Mo, I you
Spoiler: notes
gift cards make great gifts both for shoppers who are lazy and/or have a lot of gifts to buy. They're also a shrewd choice if there are individuals in your life for whom it is difficult to shop. When bought through the astore, they also help support this site, which isn't self-sufficient and doesn't hold fund-raisers or any of that other crap.

Please consider doing at least some of your holiday shopping through our astore this year.
Link: http://losttv-forum.com/forum/index.php?pageid=astore0

Here's a link for general help info on finding amazon goodies through the astore.: http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=85061e

As the old woman said when she peed in the sea, "Every little bit helps."
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Old 09-22-17, 02:05 AM   #4229
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Re: What are you reading?

His style tightens up but also gets much wordier / more philosophical. Some people get turned off by that, but I don't think it would faze you.

Plus, you must meet Jane.
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Old 09-22-17, 02:06 AM   #4230
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Re: What are you reading?

TBC goes on this whole rant about Qing-Jao living in a box eating pickled veggies, but not a word about Jane. FOR SHAME.
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