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Old 09-18-12, 07:21 PM   #21
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Re: Richard III and Other Passions

That's absolutely true, and we need to stop expecting there to be is what I was
driving at.
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Old 09-18-12, 09:40 PM   #22
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Re: Richard III and Other Passions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maturin View Post
That's a great idea, 9mile. Could you see family traits among the photos, or even where a trait might have started (everyone had great-aunt Daisy's nose)? My grandfather, aunt, and one daughter all walk the same way. Also, if you look at the portraits of Edward IV and Richard III (who were bros), they seem to have the same chin (apparently their mother's since Edward may have actually been a bastard ).

.
Yes, mos def resemblences were seen.
Even on Antique Road Show when someone brings in a photo/painting of an ancestor a 100 years removed I can see some resemblance.
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Old 09-20-12, 12:39 AM   #23
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Re: Richard III and Other Passions

Inspiration, extrapolation, adaptation, but not plagiarism, I don't think.

As for "nothing new"--there are always new takes on old ideas or premises, which is great, but even in the Matrix (to take your example) we have some archetypes playing, yes?
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Old 09-20-12, 01:38 AM   #24
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Re: Richard III and Other Passions

Nothing wrong with rerunning the archetypes. Harry Potter and Star Wars were telling a very similar story in very different and entertaining ways. I think GRRM enjoys subverting archetypes, but he's still working with the forms.

And I'd just like to point out something that has become clear in this thread:

If Richard III had stayed King, then:

no short-lived Tudor and Stuart lines, thus:

no need to go to Germany to find a new King, thus:

no Germanic Queen Victoria marrying Germanic Prince Albert, thus:

no crazy Kaiser Wilhelm (her grandson), thus:

no World War I, thus:

Hitler lives and dies as an obscure douche, thus:

no genocide or World War II.

Richard III = world peace

Tudors = world carnage
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Old 09-20-12, 01:41 AM   #25
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Re: Richard III and Other Passions

erm...


:blink:
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Old 09-20-12, 02:35 AM   #26
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Re: Richard III and Other Passions

I know. Pretty gosh-darned inspiring.

Here's the site for the Richard III Society again:

www.richardiii.net
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Old 09-20-12, 01:59 PM   #27
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Re: Richard III and Other Passions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maturin View Post
Nothing wrong with rerunning the archetypes. Harry Potter and Star Wars were telling a very similar story in very different and entertaining ways. I think GRRM enjoys subverting archetypes, but he's still working with the forms.

And I'd just like to point out something that has become clear in this thread:

If Richard III had stayed King, then:

no short-lived Tudor and Stuart lines, thus:

no need to go to Germany to find a new King, thus:

no Germanic Queen Victoria marrying Germanic Prince Albert, thus:

no crazy Kaiser Wilhelm (her grandson), thus:

no World War I, thus:

Hitler lives and dies as an obscure douche, thus:

no genocide or World War II.

Richard III = world peace

Tudors = world carnage
I actually did a paper similar to this while at university.. It's pretty much true that you can trace all this back as noted.

The fallacy though is thinking that world peace would have been the result. Something else would have def happened... you just can't say
with authority if it would have been something better or something even worse.
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Old 09-20-12, 03:38 PM   #28
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Re: Richard III and Other Passions

Was your paper on Richard or another part of history? It's true that we can't say what would have followed if one point in history had changed. Richard had already eased restrictions on speech and reformed (or started) the justice system. But maybe someone worse than Henry VII would have shot Richard in the back later.

I can't help but feel that Anne Boleyn would have been better off if Henry VIII had not been born. And without all those Germans* on all the thrones of Europe, everyone would have been less in the mood for WWI.

Hitler was probably always destined for douchehood, though. Philosophical arguments about time travel would have needed a new villain for the inevitable "Would you shoot Hitler's grandfather" arguments.



*Lots of Germans in my background. I don't research it for fear of who I'll find.
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Old 09-20-12, 03:59 PM   #29
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Re: Richard III and Other Passions

My paper was on tracing the origins of major conflict from Vietnam backwards to show how one led to the other dating all the way back to the 1500's if I remember it all
correctly after all these years.
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Old 09-20-12, 04:42 PM   #30
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Re: Richard III and Other Passions

Considering there are a few centuries between Richard III and WWII, it's a given that someone else would have stepped in to screw up things. The world changes, but human nature not so much.
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