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View Poll Results: Who is the Greatest Warrior?
Oberyn Martell, poisoned spear, lightly armored 8 61.54%
Gregor Clegane, sword, plate/mail 5 38.46%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-24-17, 04:24 AM   #1
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LTV Tourney - Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane (Final Four)

From the original post:

Basic Guidelines:

--Book OR Show info can be used to make your decision (or defend your decision).

--Each Warrior is armed and armored as they generally are in the books. They are considered to be in their "top form," uninjured, etc.

--Weapons do not include anything with independent will (human or animal-- having Grey Wolf does not make Robb Stark a better warrior, because Grey Wolf has his own skills and autonomy). Each Warrior needs to be considered as fighting alone, not with "back up" from friends, and fighting in a standard combat situation (not relying on ambush/stealth, for example).

--ONLY use for consideration what you have seen in the book/show (for example, mentions of someone's prowess 15 years before the book/show would not be applicable).
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Old 05-24-17, 06:36 AM   #2
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Re: LTV Tourney - Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane (Final Four)

LOL, you would think that given this fight actually happened that this would be an open and shut case. But this fight has a weird pro-life argument in reverse, pro-death if you will. The question here is at what moment do you consider Gregor dead? Is it the moment he stops breathing and his heart stops beating? Or was he checkmated as soon as he got hit by the poison spear?

Honestly, that's kind of a weak B.S. argument after I take the time to type it out. Oberyn's head got f'ing crushed by Gregor. The mountain wins, hands down.
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Old 05-24-17, 10:15 AM   #3
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Re: LTV Tourney - Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane (Final Four)

I know what you're saying Ness!!

I took a slightly different stance because Oberyn kicked the Mountains ass - right up until the Mountain crushed his skull lol.

My point is that Oberyn lost that fight rather than the Mountain won it. I think there's also a case for saying Oberyn won the fight before he then went on to lose it.

So, if they were able to fight, say, best of 3 or best of 5 - or best of anything - I think Oberyn beats the Mountain more than he loses.
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Old 05-24-17, 10:59 AM   #4
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Re: LTV Tourney - Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane (Final Four)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie View Post
I know what you're saying Ness!!

I took a slightly different stance because Oberyn kicked the Mountains ass - right up until the Mountain crushed his skull lol.

My point is that Oberyn lost that fight rather than the Mountain won it. I think there's also a case for saying Oberyn won the fight before he then went on to lose it.

So, if they were able to fight, say, best of 3 or best of 5 - or best of anything - I think Oberyn beats the Mountain more than he loses.
This was my thinking as well. The Mountain didn't best Oberyn -- Oberyn bested himself. And this is about the greatest warrior not necessarily the winning warrior.
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Old 05-24-17, 12:14 PM   #5
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Re: LTV Tourney - Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane (Final Four)

Damn it. I meant to vote for the Mountain, but hit Oberyn by mistake. I obviously shouldn't vote for anything before my second cup of coffee.

I don't think I need to make a case for The Mountain other than this:

Spoiler: Violent video

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Old 05-24-17, 12:32 PM   #6
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Re: LTV Tourney - Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane (Final Four)

Like I said -- the Mountain didn't beat Oberyn -- Oberyn beat Oberyn.

Oberyn could have done the same with any other warrior and if he had removed his spear and allowed them to live to get more from them, any other warrior could have tripped him up as well. So, if you want to base your decision on that -- then why is Oberyn even in the running? My grandma could have tripped him after he removed the spear and plunged a knife into his neck.
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Old 05-24-17, 01:00 PM   #7
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Re: LTV Tourney - Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane (Final Four)

The Mountain is a greater warrior because Oberyn wasn't trying to kill him? I can't get on board with that logic.
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Old 05-24-17, 01:20 PM   #8
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Re: LTV Tourney - Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane (Final Four)

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Originally Posted by Dark Side Of The Moon View Post
The Mountain is a greater warrior because Oberyn wasn't trying to kill him? I can't get on board with that logic.
Neither can I.
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Old 05-24-17, 02:06 PM   #9
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Re: LTV Tourney - Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane (Final Four)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie View Post
I know what you're saying Ness!!

I took a slightly different stance because Oberyn kicked the Mountains ass - right up until the Mountain crushed his skull lol.

My point is that Oberyn lost that fight rather than the Mountain won it. I think there's also a case for saying Oberyn won the fight before he then went on to lose it.

So, if they were able to fight, say, best of 3 or best of 5 - or best of anything - I think Oberyn beats the Mountain more than he loses.
Yeah but they are not fighting 3 out of 5. Not at all. It's a one time match up and Oberyn's anger and desire for revenge will get the best of him. We are supposed to use the evidence we know so for me it's not right to take these guys out of this universe and put them into a vacuum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandi View Post
This was my thinking as well. The Mountain didn't best Oberyn -- Oberyn bested himself. And this is about the greatest warrior not necessarily the winning warrior.
and he bested himself.... and lost.


I can not fathom saying we are supposed to use the evidence from the TV show or the books and then saying Oberyn wins here.

He doesn't. His anger and desire for revenge because of his sister is part of the deal, and this shouldn't be a contest of popularity or "well I wish it would have worked out this way" that discounts well known evidence.
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Old 05-24-17, 02:39 PM   #10
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Re: LTV Tourney - Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane (Final Four)

So, you're saying Oberyn's death from the wounds in the match-up prove that the Mountain bested him?

'Cause I seem to recall that the Mountain also died from his wounds in that match-up.
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