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LOST Theories So you think you know some secrets of the island? Maybe you can explain everything. If it's original and you can back it up, we'd love to hear it.

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Old 05-15-08, 03:30 PM   #21
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Re: Supposetahs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmberger View Post
There's aggressive outreach by the universe
I love this phrase. That's my problem: aggressive outreach by the universe. It is what Freud calls the Reality Principle. It is why life sucks (sometimes).
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Old 05-15-08, 04:47 PM   #22
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Re: Supposetahs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahalsky View Post
Five of the Ocean Six (baby Aaron being the 6th) are on the nondream list.

Could that have meaning within the show?


Maybe they weren't on Jacob's List.
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Old 05-15-08, 04:48 PM   #23
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Re: Supposetahs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by scotpgot View Post
I've oft wondered, with all his troubles, if Hurley really was supposed to be on the plane...

I don't see any Kate examples up there. Was there "supposed to" be a letter waiting for her at the motel...?


I wonder if Hurley was supposetah miss flight 815.
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Old 05-15-08, 05:19 PM   #24
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Re: Supposetahs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by time is a river View Post
I love this phrase. That's my problem: aggressive outreach by the universe. It is what Freud calls the Reality Principle. It is why life sucks (sometimes).
Story of my life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by see you in the next life View Post
Maybe they weren't on Jacob's List.
We have a selection of types here though -- Hurley breaks the mold because he found the cabin on his own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by see you in the next life View Post
I wonder if Hurley was supposetah miss flight 815.
Certainly we have been led to believe this with the flashback to his attempts to make the flight on time -- but unlike, say, Michael attempting to die, Hurley was ABLE to make the plane. Are some people able to avoid what they are supposetah do and others powerless? Locke has shown a pretty consistent ability to reject.

"Don't tell me what I can't do!" Note as per drabauer's observation above, this is always phrased in the negative. It's not "Don't tell me what to do!" In fact, Locke seems to love it when someone does that. It's only when someone tells him what he "can't" do that he rebels, and forcefully. It seems to me that this has got to be meaningful somehow.
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Old 05-15-08, 05:30 PM   #25
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Re: Supposetahs...

locke really enjoys his own free will I guess.

which is odd considering he keeps saying he is there for a reason..

destiny versus free will..

how do they relate ?

how can your own choices and free will also play a part in a destiny ?

its like god knew you would CHOOSE a certain path, and in that he instilled "free will"

an ILLUSION.

which is damn sad when you think about it...
nearly maddening.


this thread JMB, should create a lot of talk imo.
I myself am enjoying the conversations within.
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"That's pretty cool. You manipulated the physical universe such that Damon Lindelof said the word "fermions" on national television." :#station


"Then I saw thrones, and people seated on them who were given authority to judge."

"These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them...."

Last edited by yung23; 05-15-08 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 05-15-08, 05:41 PM   #26
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Re: Supposetahs...

There's a recurring question in the predestination debate along the lines of "if you're predestined to choose to do something, does that mean you have free will or not?"

On Lost we've seen that things are not rigidly predestined, but that certain events will happen no matter what you do. Interestingly, this parallels my experiences and beliefs in life pretty closely...

ETA: Glad we found a finally found a thread where we can have a mutually enjoyable conversation, yung. ;-)
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Old 05-15-08, 08:20 PM   #27
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Re: Supposetahs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmberger View Post
There's a recurring question in the predestination debate along the lines of "if you're predestined to choose to do something, does that mean you have free will or not?"

On Lost we've seen that things are not rigidly predestined, but that certain events will happen no matter what you do. Interestingly, this parallels my experiences and beliefs in life pretty closely...

ETA: Glad we found a finally found a thread where we can have a mutually enjoyable conversation, yung. ;-)



Okay, here goes.


A. There is a path that you will take throughout your life. Things you WILL do. Things you won't do.

B. You are not omniscient and so you do not know that you will do them or not do them until the moment you make the choice (which is not really a choice at all).

C. Thus, from your limited frame of reference, you have free will.

D. In reality, you didn't.


This particular argument has obviously been used throughout history to describe God's omniscience in relationship to the supposed free will of man. That being, God knows the choice you will make before you make it but from your limited perspective you feel that you have free will.


Could this be what is happening with John Locke. His path has always been foretold and a part of his destiny.....but he didn't know....He may only be beginning to realize it.
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Old 05-15-08, 08:34 PM   #28
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Re: Supposetahs...

I was thinking more along the lines of time structure. All times exist at once. So the reason you are somewhere in the future is because you chose to be there. It's not that your choice is being dictated to you, it's just that your choice has already been made (from a different perspective in time). So for instance, if I chose to work at a newspaper after college, I can't do anything to change that (from this perspective in time), but I did choose to do it then.

It's counterintuitive but not a logical fallacy.
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Old 05-15-08, 09:38 PM   #29
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Re: Supposetahs...

This discussion (well, parts of it) is/are veering dangerously close to another one of my favorite books, "Breakfast of Champions". Inside the book is another book called "Now It Can Be Told", about how God created one man with free will, while all the rest are basically robots, built to test the one real man. Of course the man tries to test God. It's been awhile since I read it, I may have to re-read it.

If I sit here and do nothing, am I exercising free will?
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Old 05-15-08, 10:42 PM   #30
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Re: Supposetahs...

sounds like the role of the "one"

but that goes right back to destiny...created for that purpose.

all the rest mere pawns along the way.

like the agents (ie the robots) versus the one man with free will, trapped in a matrix with rules, and no free will among the
programmed agents, but then a bit of that free will sinks into agent smith...(albeit during a "merging" of two bodies even)

and we suddenly have an "incident"

imo, the same has happened in LOST

using Jacob and Smokey,
smokey is even a security system. kinda like smith was...
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"That's pretty cool. You manipulated the physical universe such that Damon Lindelof said the word "fermions" on national television." :#station


"Then I saw thrones, and people seated on them who were given authority to judge."

"These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them...."

Last edited by yung23; 05-15-08 at 10:50 PM.
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