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Old 01-18-18, 04:56 PM   #11
Mr. Bill
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Re: The Last Jedi Hate Thread (contains spoilers)

Lol, I haven't had the pleasure yet. I'm sure it will be on the blueray shelves soon enough. And I was one of those who waited in line for 6 hrs to see the original trilogy.
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Old 01-18-18, 10:09 PM   #12
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Re: The Last Jedi Hate Thread (contains spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigCat View Post
The Empire would still ultimately have been defeated if Luke had not been Vader's son, not been Leia's brother.
I'm not so sure about that. A big part of why the Empire was defeated, was because Luke believed there was still good in his father, and risked everything to try and turn him back. If that had not been his father, I'm not sure Luke would have gone to such lengths, or even been able to sense the good that was still there. Additionally, Vader's relationship to Luke also feels like the reason the Emperor sought him out, and set Vader to try and turn Luke to the Dark Side.

That said, I think we are on the same page as far as shock values not being inherently good or bad. They can be either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigCat View Post
See, no gasp shock reveal, things can still work out pretty much the same from that point and we don't get A) three crappy movies about Little Ani growing up to be Evil Vader,
I don't think that was a bad idea in concept, it just turned out to be poorly executed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigCat View Post
and B) a whole slew of "canon" Jedi Academy books published for twenty years just to keep Lucas in beer and skittles so he can get fat waiting to make said crappy movies.
There were only three "Jedi Academy" books, and I admit they were not the strongest of stories. There were a series of "Young Jedi" books aimed at a younger audience, I don't think I read them, can't comment. Some of the EU was not so great, but a lot of it was really excellent. Star Wars: Rebels did a pretty good job of taking some elements from the EU (such as Grand Admiral Thrawn) and incorporating them into the new canon. I've heard some apologists say that the writers of the new Star Wars have it tough, because they don't have a road map of books like Game of Thrones does... but that's simply not true; they have a HUGE UNIVERSE of material, they should have cherry-picked the best of it, instead of striking out in random uninteresting directions.

Here's a pretty good reaction from ET-Canada:

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Old 01-19-18, 01:21 AM   #13
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Re: The Last Jedi Hate Thread (contains spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdraino View Post
Star Wars: Rebels did a pretty good job of taking some elements from the EU (such as Grand Admiral Thrawn) and incorporating them into the new canon. I've heard some apologists say that the writers of the new Star Wars have it tough, because they don't have a road map of books like Game of Thrones does... but that's simply not true; they have a HUGE UNIVERSE of material, they should have cherry-picked the best of it, instead of striking out in random uninteresting directions.
Precisely. Timothy Zahn's books, Mara Jade, Ahsoka Tano, Lucas's original concepts for the third trilogy...there was a wealth of characters and material to plumb. Not all of it great, but selectively chosen, it could have added up to greatness.

Which is why Rebels (when it isn't a filler episode) is better than anything else in the SWU right now. It isn't classic SW, but it's better than the current big-screen stuff.
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Old 01-19-18, 09:06 PM   #14
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Re: The Last Jedi Hate Thread (contains spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdraino View Post
I'm so glad you're in here, Mapinguari, because a lot of us really don't understand what you guys (and many critics) are seeing in it. I would like to take a more detailed analysis of your thoughts, and I'd like to know what you think of the reasons why a lot of us had big problems.

One thing I feel like I keep seeing among those who liked it, I get the impression that a lot of you guys take the view that shock value automatically = good. That the objective of good story-telling and good movie-making is to do the unexpected. I fundamentally disagree with that. I'm not saying that doing the expected is better than doing the unexpected, but I am saying that the unexpected is not inherently good (or bad). It's actually quite easy to go in an unexpected direction with a story... but it's also exceedingly easy to end up somewhere dumb, too.
That's quite the assumption. For me, it's a lot more simple. These movies take me back to when I was a kid. When I didn't over analyze things and simply enjoyed Star Wars for entertainment value. It's Star Wars. I don't overthink it. I'm not going to get in a bunch over where it's all going until it gets there.

I wished I would have known I was going to be analyzed. I would have given you something worth analyzing.

Quote:
Last Jedi is an even odder animal, in that while a lot of supporters are arguing that it subverted expectations (and is therefore for some reason "good"), quite a lot of the film's plot is like a bad mashup ripoff of Empire and Return of the Jedi.
Loved those movies. This was sort of a coda before the big finish. I thought it was cool. Subverting expectations though? I didn't have any. I don't really delve into all the rumor sites, and I could care less what "experts" think about movies I'm excited about. I prefer to be as blind as possible going in.

Quote:
A common complaint I hear from those who didn't like the film, was that Snoke's background was one of many things they expected to learn about, wanted to learn about. When Abrams did Force Awakens, he purposefully left a lot of plot threads for the next movie to pick up. Sort of a roadmap, foreshadowing. The identity of Snoke was one of those. This is clearly a character who is so old, he had to have been around back during Luke's heyday. And he's super-powerful. Who was he? Where did he come from? How did he come into power? With Last Jedi, he comes off as more of a plot device than a character, only there to move the story along, like the makers don't want us to be thinking too hard about him... and yet the setup from Force Awakens was specifically designed to have us speculating about him. The setup with Snoke in the first movie, followed by the sudden discarding of the character, feels like an inconsistency in the plot. And really, it very much is: The makers have admitted that there is no arc planned out for the films, each director is just winging it, just making it up as they go along, going off in whatever direction strikes their fancy at the time. It's like the campfire story game, where you take turns adding to the story, until some asshole starts his turn with, "and then Johnny woke up from his dream." That's an entertaining exercise, but it doesn't make for a good or satisfying story.
This may not be the last we've seen of Snoke. We just saw Luke pull a ghost mission on Kylo, who's to say that's not what Snoke did, and it was all a set up? Until we see episode 9, everything is fair game. We can all speculate until then, and it seems like there are no rules anymore.


Quote:
That was actually probably my favorite scene in the movie, and the plot between Rey and Kylo was IMO the most interesting part of the film. It was a cool fight, it was cool seeing them work together, even if it ultimately goes nowhere (nobody has a character change, they just split and go their separate ways after). Plus there's a couple of things with the scene that don't make sense:

1. Snoke is super-powerful, seems to be more powerful than the Emperor or Vader, and yet he does not sense that Kylo is getting ready to turn on him even at the very instant that Kylo is in his presence, turning on him, and Snoke is talking about that very subject. I feel like this is supposed to be a sort-of homage to the scene where Vader turns on the Emperor, but with that plot, the Emperor does sense quite early that there is conflict in Vader, and Vader only gets the jump on him because he's distracted by his gleeful force lightning murder of Luke.

2. Rey is an untrained Mary Sue, and in this scene fights better than Kylo, and has no difficulty taking out all these elite guards. Now, some might say that Luke gave her some training... yeah, a little bit. VERY little. Like, literally a matter of hours. Consider it: The entire plot of this movie is confined to a matter of hours, the time that it takes the resistance fleet to run out of gas (don't get me started). Because Rey and Kylo's ForceTime skype conversations take place periodically during this ticking clock, that means the entirety of Rey's interaction with Luke is also confined to a matter of hours. She comes, visits with Luke for a few hours, and leaves.
Star Wars is supposed to make sense? LOL.
Seriously, though. Do we KNOW that Snoke is super powerful? What has he actually done? I probably should go watch TFA again, maybe I missed something, but he was nothing more than an astral projection in that movie and looked menacing, but what did he actually DO? We know nothing about him.
There's a whole 'nuther movie coming.

Quote:
I like the idea of Leia using the Force a lot. The problem with this one was all in the execution. As in, for a lot of us, seeing Leia flying through space like that just looked effing stupid. Not to mention nobody getting sucked out of the airlock door when she pops it open. SOD got broken pretty hard. Also, it feels like they drop the idea of Leia with Force powers for the rest of the movie after that, she doesn't help out with the rocks.
Life was threatened, force kicked in. I have no problem with her not helping with the rocks. If anything, I'm surprised no one talked about her surviving the vacuum of space after she got back in the ship, but who knows? Star Wars!

Quote:
This one had the opposite problem of flying space Leia; it looked really cool, but it is inconsistent with the rules of the universe, and basically breaks the universe. As many have already said, if it was possible to take out mega-ships by lightspeeding into them, this is a tactic that would have been used in battles ever since the hyperdrive was invented. There would be ships designed just for this, probably with droid pilots. It would be a well-known tactic, and would then beg the question as to why Snoke didn't use this against the fleeing Resistance cruiser. Can't catch it? Just lightspeed a star destroyer into it, and probably take out the rest of the fleet at the same time, just like Admiral Purple Hair did. It also begs the question as to why, as the Resistance fleet ships got low on fuel, why didn't they turn each one of them around one at a time, and lightspeed it into the First Order?

As far as inconsistency with the rules of the universe, at the end of Rogue One, the Rebel Fleet is attempting to lightspeed away from Scarif, but Darth Vader's star destroyer jumps into their path. A few ships manage to escape into hyperspace, but one transport just smashes to death on the star destroyer. No damage is caused to the star destroyer.

So, in summation, this might have been a really cool visual, but if you actually think about it, its pretty stupid. And that goes for a lot of things in this movie: Looks pretty, but is really, really stupid when you think about it.
I'm not sure which of the original trilogy it is, but there WAS a scene where Han was talking about getting coordinates correct or else they could come out of hyperspace in the middle of an asteroid. Could be that Captain Purple Dern set the coordinates to make the jump and come out of the jump INSIDE the Dreadnaught. In Rogue One, and pretty much anytime someone uses hyperspace in SW, they were trying to get away, but ended up crashing into it on their way IN to hyperspace. Purple Dern wasn't trying to escape, and it seems as if she knows what she's doing. Maybe she had a nuke ready to pop when she was going to hit it. Hop in, hop out, or a half jump (with a MUCH bigger ship than a little transport too, yes?), who knows? I'll allow it.

Quote:
The problem a lot of us had with this one, was that it would have been a satisfying plot if they had gone one way or the other: If Luke had done the fake-out, and then actually lived to fight another day, that would have been cool. If Luke had actually physically been there fighting Kylo, and really went out like a boss, that also would have been fitting. But to have him do the fake-out, seemingly escape, but then just keel over and die anyway alone on that planet, for a lot of us that was just not satisfying. For all we know he didn't really go back because he was a coward, and only keeled over and died by accident. That's not going out like a boss. I don't really even see a logical reason why he died afterward, other than Disney wanted him out of the franchise.
I mean, I see why people might have a problem with it, I just didn't. It showed a new use of the Force, which could really be a foreshadowing for how they'll deal with Snoke. Maybe Snoke was Luke's "evil" side. Could be a projection by Kylo. Maybe Rey has multiple personalities, which is why she's actually quite gifted when it comes to fighting and use of the Force.


Quote:
If it's actually solid storytelling, then it shouldn't be so easy to pick apart. I think it's hard to argue that this isn't an extremely flawed movie.
I don't think I'm arguing that. I wouldn't dare. But I love it. Call it fanboy crap. Call it being blind or stupid. I don't care.
It's fricking STAR WARS.
This trilogy is incomplete, and I'm cool with suspending expectations and "reality" until they get to the end. I've been waiting for these movies for 30 years.

For comparison purposes only, I need to say this about analyzing storytelling and plot issues.
Raiders of the Lost Ark is one of my all time favorite movies, and it's basically about Indiana Jones wasting his time and risking his life, and the lives of others, for nothing. If he never shows up, everything that happens in the movie still happens. Well, the Ark would have been abandoned in the middle of the desert and would have killed anyone who opened it for decades, but other than the Ark getting in storage, Indy basically doesn't matter AT ALL.
Still loved it.
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Old 01-19-18, 11:44 PM   #15
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Re: The Last Jedi Hate Thread (contains spoilers)

The problem with eh EU is the same thing as with Rian Johnson but multiplied by 1000. When you change writers, they tend to discard things they didn't care about or change characters to no longer feel authentic. In the end you end up with an inconsistent story.

JJ should have at least been in charge of all story decisions for the trilogy and overrode Rian at times. It's quite possible that JJ had no clue what Snoke or Rey's origins were and left it to another to deal, or not deal, with.

Their original plan was to have three completely different authors and directors for this important trilogy. that's just asinine.
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Old 01-20-18, 12:57 AM   #16
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Re: The Last Jedi Hate Thread (contains spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
That's quite the assumption.
Well, in your original post, you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
Sure, the Snoke take down was a little less dramatic than I would have expected it to be, but the shock value was through the roof for me.
Maybe I misunderstood you, but it sounded to me like, for you, shock value = positive.

As for fans of the film saying subverts expectations = good, here's a few links:

At 1:00:



https://www.gq.com/story/star-wars-t...eview-spoilers

https://www.economist.com/blogs/pros...oure-looking-0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
For me, it's a lot more simple. These movies take me back to when I was a kid. When I didn't over analyze things and simply enjoyed Star Wars for entertainment value. It's Star Wars. I don't overthink it.
Heh. That is one of the other things I commonly hear from those who think the movie is good: That we shouldn't think about it so hard. Turn your brain off, and you'll enjoy it more. Feels like the argument is, "Sure it's dumb, but it's supposed to be! It's just Star Wars, don't take it seriously."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
Subverting expectations though? I didn't have any. I don't really delve into all the rumor sites, and I could care less what "experts" think about movies I'm excited about. I prefer to be as blind as possible going in.
Same here. I didn't watch any trailers, read any interviews, nothing. Since I didn't like Force Awakens, my bar for this movie was already very low. And as I was watching it, I did actually enjoy it. I guess all that action turned my brain off. But afterwards, when the brain started working again, I found I disliked it more and more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
Star Wars is supposed to make sense? LOL.
Of course it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
Life was threatened, force kicked in.
That's all fine. It's just too bad it looked so stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
If anything, I'm surprised no one talked about her surviving the vacuum of space after she got back in the ship, but who knows? Star Wars!
I think I heard some science being bandied about that proposed it is actually possible to survive longer in space than is normally presented in movies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
I'm not sure which of the original trilogy it is, but there WAS a scene where Han was talking about getting coordinates correct or else they could come out of hyperspace in the middle of an asteroid.
You are thinking of A New Hope:

"Flying through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy. Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it."

Han doesn't really get into specifics of what would happen, other than "that'd end your trip." But what he primarily seems to be talking about, are objects with a lot of gravity. In other words, gravity wells. The EU, and also Star Wars: Rebels, established that gravity wells have the effect of pulling ships out of hyperspace. Thrawn uses Interdictor Star Destroyers with large gravity well projectors to pull ships out of hyperspace, and also prevent them from escaping into hyperspace. As you can see, this is not really applicable to Holdo's maneuver, unless you were trying to hyperspeed your ship into an Interdictor Star Destroyer... in which case the canon dictates you would simply be unable to engage your hyperdrive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
Could be that Captain Purple Dern set the coordinates to make the jump and come out of the jump INSIDE the Dreadnaught.
That seems unlikely, because here again, it breaks the universe. If it's that easy to destroy giant capital ships this way, then it would happen all the time. It should even have happened earlier in this self-same movie, with other Resistance ships on the verge of being out of fuel, or the tactic would have been used by the First Order to torpedo the Resistance cruiser.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
In Rogue One, and pretty much anytime someone uses hyperspace in SW, they were trying to get away, but ended up crashing into it on their way IN to hyperspace.
We didn't see Holdo jump in and out of hyperspace. We saw her do the same run-up we always see, as ships enter hyperspace. That's all we saw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
Purple Dern wasn't trying to escape, and it seems as if she knows what she's doing. Maybe she had a nuke ready to pop when she was going to hit it. Hop in, hop out, or a half jump (with a MUCH bigger ship than a little transport too, yes?), who knows? I'll allow it.
If she knew what she was doing, why didn't she also do it earlier with the several other capital ships that had to be evacuated as they ran out of fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
I mean, I see why people might have a problem with it, I just didn't. It showed a new use of the Force, which could really be a foreshadowing for how they'll deal with Snoke.
lol. Truly no offense, but it's really funny to me that you truly seem to think Snoke is going to be back in the next movie! If IX has no Snoke in it, how are you going to feel about that?

btw, maybe it showed movie viewers a new way to use the Force, but book readers have seen Force projections before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
I don't think I'm arguing that. I wouldn't dare. But I love it. Call it fanboy crap. Call it being blind or stupid. I don't care.
It's okay for you to love it, I'm just interested in understanding why you loved it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
It's fricking STAR WARS.
It sounds like your position is that anything Star Wars is automatically good. You should like this then:



Quote:
Originally Posted by FrodoFraggins View Post
The problem with eh EU is the same thing as with Rian Johnson but multiplied by 1000. When you change writers, they tend to discard things they didn't care about or change characters to no longer feel authentic. In the end you end up with an inconsistent story.
I don't know how much of the EU you have read, but I have read A LOT of it. Like, more than a hundred novels. It's a mixed bag, but I'm amazed that it actually is largely consistent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrodoFraggins View Post
JJ should have at least been in charge of all story decisions for the trilogy and overrode Rian at times. It's quite possible that JJ had no clue what Snoke or Rey's origins were and left it to another to deal, or not deal, with.
I think that is the official company line: That Abrams left a number of threads without preset resolutions, and the next director could decide what direction to go in. Instead of going in a direction though, it feels like most of those threads were simply discarded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrodoFraggins View Post
Their original plan was to have three completely different authors and directors for this important trilogy. that's just asinine.
I agree. The idea that there is no roadmap whatsoever for what arc this three-film "trilogy" was supposed to have seems extremely poor planning. Maybe Lucas originally thought A New Hope was going to be a standalone movie, but once he knew there would be sequels, he planned ahead. He also had the advantage of being the single driving writer for the original trilogy arc, which carries more inherent consistency. Like you said, the idea of doing three movies that are supposed to play as a continuous story, but created by different people who are told "do whatever you want for your part of it," that sounds like a recipe for failure.

Here's a follow up video by this articulate author guy, quite good:



ETA: Also, this was funny:



ETA: OMG this was hilarious:

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Old 01-21-18, 06:53 PM   #17
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Re: The Last Jedi Hate Thread (contains spoilers)

Wow, man.
I mean, if you feel the need to hyper analyze everything (including a post I never expected would be multi quoted) then really, more power to you. If you don’t enjoy shocking moments in movies, I’ve got nothing for you. Good or bad, shock value = entertainment, and that moment was THOROUGHLY entertaining.

You talk about my comparatively “laissez faire attitude” towards Star Wars as if it’s a bad thing. Like it’s a bad thing that I avoided as much hype as I could (and generally continue use to so) so that I could simply enjoy it for what it was. You sound like Lucasfilms owes you something. Get too amped about some fan fiction, or a really cool theory, and you’re setting yourself up for disappointment. I don’t see that as a bad thing, it’s just not my cup of tea. No debate, I simply don’t care. If I’m an example of what’s wrong with whatever appears to be wrong with Star Wars fans, I’m cool with that.
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Old 01-21-18, 11:26 PM   #18
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Re: The Last Jedi Hate Thread (contains spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
Wow, man.
I mean, if you feel the need to hyper analyze everything (including a post I never expected would be multi quoted) then really, more power to you.
It feels like Last Jedi has generated very strong feelings on both sides, as to whether it was good or bad. In particular, there is a disparity between what critics throught, compared to what fans thought. That disparity fascinates me. Absolutely, I want to analyze it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
If you donít enjoy shocking moments in movies, Iíve got nothing for you. Good or bad, shock value = entertainment, and that moment was THOROUGHLY entertaining.
Shock value can be good, or it can be bad. The Star Wars Holiday Special has tons of shock value, loads of things that you never would have expected to see. Does that make it good? It does not. Does that make it entertaining? Not really, no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
You talk about my comparatively ďlaissez faire attitudeĒ towards Star Wars as if itís a bad thing. Like itís a bad thing that I avoided as much hype as I could (and generally continue use to so) so that I could simply enjoy it for what it was.
I don't think avoiding hype is bad at all. As I posted above, I too avoided the hype for this one, I went in with practically zero expectations, and a bar set really low. And admittedly, I was entertained while I watched the movie. But was it a good movie? I don't think so. Did it actually damage the viability of the Star Wars universe? I think it did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
You sound like Lucasfilms owes you something.
Well, they want my money, don't they? If they want my money, then I expect them to provide a quality product. If they don't provide a quality product, then they aren't going to get my money.

I wouldn't say they owe me, so much as they owe the Star Wars universe. They were entrusted as stewards of this universe, a universe with deep roots in our culture going back decades. They were entrusted to give this universe a long and vibrant future to come, a life after Lucas. It feels like they are blowing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
Get too amped about some fan fiction, or a really cool theory, and youíre setting yourself up for disappointment.
But that's not why I disliked the movie. I don't read fan fiction, and theories about these new movies frankly haven't interested me, because the movies themselves haven't interested me (not counting Rogue One, loved that one).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
If Iím an example of whatís wrong with whatever appears to be wrong with Star Wars fans, Iím cool with that.
It seems to me that those fans who didn't like the movie (such as myself) are the ones that have been accused of having something wrong with them. We get accused of being "alt-right," or too much into fan theories, unable to handle when our "expectations" are subverted. But the reasons I hear over and over from those who don't like it, go much deeper than that. Last Jedi is just not a coherent film. It is not internally consistent even with itself.

But what I still haven't grasped, is generally why the folks who did like the movie, liked it. It sometimes feels like it's hard for them to even articulate why they liked it. Here's what I generally hear as to their reasons:

1. Fun action
-Some fans really enjoyed the action.
2. Funny humor
-While I didn't think the humor worked, some fans thought it was great.
3. Nostalgia
-Some fans love the nostalgia hit, and the nostalgia in this movie was good enough for them.
4. Progressive political messages
-Some fans actually did like the progressive politics injected into the movie.
5. Cute Animals
-The porgs and other critters were hits with some fans.
6. Light Entertainment
-General theme I hear, is that some fans view Star Wars as never anything more than light entertainment, that we shouldn't think too hard about it or take it too seriously. They didn't, and so I guess they enjoyed it more.

As a fan who liked the film, do the above reasons come close as to why you liked it? Should something be added?

To sort of frame my thoughts as to why I didn't like the film, I've started a rapidly growing list of questions I had, after I watched the movie. Feel free to try and answer some of these:

LAST JEDI QUESTIONS

1. Why does Luke leave a map to where he is at, if he doesn't want to be found?

2. How is Poe able to destroy all those cannons single-handedly?

3. Why does Poe prank call Hux?

4. Why do bombs drop "down" in space?

5. Why is someone as idiotic as Hux in charge of the First Order military?

6. Why does Snoke only just now tell Kylo that his mask is dumb?

7. Why is the entire First Order led by a bunch of white males?

8. Why is the resistance led by a bunch of females?

9. When Leia opens the airlock door, why don't people get sucked out?

10. How does Poe not know who Holdo is?

11. If Holdo is an Admiral, and this is a war, why is she dressed to go ballroom dancing?

12. Why doesn't Holdo tell anybody what her plan is?

13. Why did the Resistance fleet jump to a point in deep space, instead of to an actual destination?

14. How does "light speed tracking" work?

15. why does the Resistance think the First Order has new tracking technology, why don't they assume a tracking device is hidden on a Resistance ship, as in all prior instances?

16. How does the Resistance know where the tracking technology is, and how do they know it is only on one ship?

17. How does the Resistance know the First Order is only tracking capital ships?

18. Why doesn't Snoke know about light speed tracking before Hux tells him about it?

19. If Last Jedi picks up right after Force Awakens, how long has the First Order had this lightspeed tracking technology?

20. How does the First Order know the Resistance fleet is low on fuel?

21. If Holdo's plan is to escape on transports, because those are not being tracked, why don't they execute that plan immediately? Why wait? They could even jump the evacuated capital ships and have the First Order follow them on a wild goose chase.

22. How is it possible for every capital ship in the Resistance fleet to be so low on fuel, that none of them can do more than one more jump after just having left their home base? We've never seen fuel issues like this in the Star Wars universe before.

23. Why don't the First Order have some of their capital ships jump to a point in front of the Resistance fleet, in order to cut them off?

24. Why does Admiral Holdo pilot the cruiser on its suicide run? Why not have a droid do it, or a less important crew member?

25. Why does Holdo jumping the cruiser to lightspeed destroy the Supremacy, when a similar action at the end of Rogue One causes no damage?

26. If lightspeeding into a capital ship will destroy it, why doesn't the First Order use that tactic on the fleeing Resistance fleet? For that matter, why don't the Resistance use this tactic earlier, with the other capital ships that are running out of fuel? Why don't we see this tactic being used all the time, with droid-piloted ships designed for that purpose?

27. Why do Finn and Rose need a hacker to stop the lightspeed tracker? What is there to hack? Don't you just need to get on board and blow it up?

28. Why are all the bad guys at the casino planet white?

29. Why do we have a scene of BB-8 shooting coins like a machinegun?

30. Why do Finn and Rose rescue a bunch of animals, but not the enslaved children?

31. DJ tells the First Order about Holdo's secret plan to escape on transports. How does he know this plan?

32. Why was Phasma so easily killed, and how is Finn able to beat her? Why did her blaster disappear?

33. How is it that Finn is suddenly a pilot now?

34. Why was Rey sent to convince Luke to come back, instead of his sister Leia?

35. Why do we get a scene of Luke milking a giant alien walrus?

36. Why did Luke sneak into Ben's room and almost murder him in is sleep the first time he sensed darkness in him, when in Return of the Jedi Luke risked everything to turn his father back to the light side?

37. This movie takes place almost immediately after Force Awakens. When did Snoke meld Kylo and Rey's minds together? We never see them interact before now.

38. If Snoke is so powerful, how is it he doesn't realize Kylo is betraying him, at the very moment that Kylo is betraying him, and Snoke is in the act of talking about how impossible it is that Kylo could betray him. No danger sense at all?

39. Who was Snoke?

40. How is Rey, untrained in lightsaber combat, able to fight better than Kylo?

41. When Rey and Kylo are fighting the red guards, why don't they use the Force against them?

42. The First Order is made up of the Imperial remnant. In Force Awakens, they used their superweapon to destroy the leadership of the much larger New Republic, apparently 5 planets, but then immediately lose their superweapon. When the Resistance calls for help, why is it that NOBODY in the whole galaxy wants to help crush this Imperial Remnant that just killed all their leaders? Especially now they they don't have a planet-destroying superweapon anymore?

43. Why does the salt planet look white on top, but red underneath? And why do the Resistance attack speeders have "stabilizers" that seem specifically designed to make pretty red marks on the ground?

44. Why don't the First Order bombard the Resistance base from orbit? In Empire Strikes Back, they only went in with walkers because there was a shield protecting the Hoth base from orbital bombardment. Maybe I missed it, but I don't think the Resistance base on the salt planet has a planetary shield.

45. Why does Rose ram Finn's ship, an act that would likely result in both of them being killed or badly injured, as well as letting the First Order kill the entire Resistance?

46. How do Finn and Rose make it all the way back to the base without being killed?

More to come, no doubt.

Here's today's video, a very educational discourse on what exactly a "Mary Sue" character is:

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Old 01-27-18, 01:34 AM   #19
sgtdraino
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Re: The Last Jedi Hate Thread (contains spoilers)

Greetings fellow Last Jedi haters, and Last Jedi fans too, if any are present!

Got another couple of videos to share that I thought were pretty interesting.

The first addresses the concepts of established rules of writing involving setups and payoffs (i.e. the "Chekov's Gun" rule), and proposes that one of the reasons Last Jedi feels unsatisfying, is because it is full of both setups with no payoffs, and also payoffs with no setup. Enjoy:



This next video is on the long side, guy is pretty articulate, and really seems to want to give Last Jedi as fair a shake as he can... but at the same time finds he just can't help but have serious problems with it:

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Old 01-27-18, 02:39 AM   #20
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Re: The Last Jedi Hate Thread (contains spoilers)

I think you should move on draino
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