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Old Today, 06:01 AM   #131
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Re: Warty's Sandman FR - The Doll's House

If who Gilbert is should be obvious, then recall isn't my friend tonight.

I want to flip back through P&N but I don't want to risk disturbing the sleeping wife to go get it out of the bedroom. If it's a known character, then I am struggling although not everyone mentioned is accounted for unless I am mistaken.


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Old Today, 06:07 AM   #132
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Re: Warty's Sandman FR - The Doll's House

He's not from P&N.
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Old Today, 06:08 AM   #133
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Re: Warty's Sandman FR - The Doll's House

And, it shouldn't be obvious, but on re-read it REALLY is obvious and I was kicking myself for not figuring it out.
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Old Today, 06:09 AM   #134
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Re: Warty's Sandman FR - The Doll's House

Don't sweat not knowing. Just keep reading, and enjoy the reveal when it happens.
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Old Today, 06:10 AM   #135
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Re: Warty's Sandman FR - The Doll's House

I'm going to have to change my sig picture now, since you've hit that point. I think now I'll put in a panel from Book 3.
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Old Today, 06:41 AM   #136
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Re: Warty's Sandman FR - The Doll's House

But okay

*stretches, cracks knuckles*

We were warned early on, when Matthew goes to find Morpheus and finds him calmly hanging out by the shore, "Oh, I'm making nightmares."
The Corinthian doesn't disappoint him by killing people and eating their eyeballs. That is his FUNCTION. The Corinthian disappoints him by being petty. Morpheus wanted him to be MORE horrific. "YOU were my masterpiece, or so I thought. A nightmare created to be the darkness and the fear of darkness in every human heart. A black mirror, made to reflect everything about itself that humanity will not confront. But look at you. Forty years walking the earth, honing yourself, infecting others with your joy of death and what have you given them? What have you wrought, Corinthian? NOTHING. Just something else for people to be scared of, that's all. You've told them that there are bad people out there. And they've known that all along."

What is he really telling us here?
He wanted the Corinthian to be more.

Plus we have to assume (based on Brute and Glob) that he is a bit pissed at someone having the nerve to leave the Dreaming-- mice playing when the cat's away.

But mainly--
Morpheus has NO romanticism about humanity.
Why would he? He is hideously intimate with humanity. He holds our stories. He sees our dreams. He is not, himself, a monster, because we are not monsters. He knows the beauty we dream of. But he also knows the darkness, and it doesn't trouble him.
His older brother Destiny can treat humanity with indifference, because of his omniscience and resultant detachment.
Older sis Death can see humanity with compassion and warmth and pity because she can recognize a lifetime-- all that a lifetime entails, in such small and powerful and pitiful ways. She has all of the things we do.
But Dream has our secret urges and our secret joys and our secret shames. He has all of the things we DON'T do.

He is NOT amoral. He even counsels Hob to give up the slave trade. But he won't punish Hob for being part of it.
He saves Jed from abuse, he saves Rose from rape and murder, but would he have done so if not for their close connection to his own aims?

I mean, think about it-- he is shown as someone IMMENSELY powerful. We've already seen that he can do nearly anything he likes to any human's mind.
But he's not a superhero. He's not seeking out ways to use his power to correct human wrongs, to defend human rights.
He could, with a wave of his hand, trap every serial killer in the convention with eternal sleep.

But what they DO doesn't concern him. That's his sister's business. His brother's business.

I have so much more on this but I'm not going to spoil.

I do think, Mo, that he is a very PERSONAL person, with traits all his own that are shaped by his own experience.
But he is just as comfortable with nightmares as he is with hope.
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Old Today, 07:42 AM   #137
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Re: Warty's Sandman FR - The Doll's House

But Warty-- never forget the conversation that Morpheus had with Lyta.

It has different flavors depending on when you read it and what you know.

Destiny's book is chained to his hand.
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Old Today, 12:48 PM   #138
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Re: Warty's Sandman FR - The Doll's House

After earlier discussion, I am keeping what he said Lyta on my mind.


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Old Today, 01:50 PM   #139
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Re: Warty's Sandman FR - The Doll's House

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warthawg1 View Post
I know his reaction seemed somewhat subdued, but it fits.. he's all llke "okay let's cut the BS here", but he sees things on a different level. We at our level may not see how he doesn't have a more visceral reaction more in line with ours, but I see that as a product of his perspective.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by vonnegut View Post
Exactly.

I think he has more trouble than his sister in seeing humans as-- "individual lives have worth."

Death gets that.

I don't think Morpheus does.
Yes! I'd say that it's not so much that he doesn't see value in individual lives as that he doesn't see value in individual suffering. Might be splitting a hair there.

Also,my initial reaction to Dream's treatment of the cereal convention was very similar to vonne's, but i've wondered at times over the years if the cereal convention didn't really get off so lightly. He took away their most cherished dream, and it seems likely to me that many though certainly not all will probably stop their actions. I imagine quite a few committed suicide and many others turned themselves in, in a state of complete abjection.

____

As for Gilbert, i had him figured out pretty quickly, but i don't think we're supposed to get it that easily. I don't know why it clicked for me, it just did, and even then i had doubts right up until the reveal.

________

And vonne,
Spoiler: major spoiler, do not read this please WartyOne
i never argued that Morpheus wasn't an individual; i argued that Dream is not an individual. It's pretty clear that Morpheus and Daniel aren't going to be carbon copies. I'm not sure if you didn't (and maybe still don't) understand my point or whether you're being disingenuous in an attempt to "win" an argument. My point revolves around the idea that the Endless positions are sort of like "jobs" if you will, and the character of the individual performing the job may be heavily influenced by it, but not defined by it. I think the most compelling direct example NG gave us was that Destruction simply walked away, and things continued to be destroyed anyway. Had he been "killed" another aspect would've taken his place instead.
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Mo, I you
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Old Today, 02:53 PM   #140
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Re: Warty's Sandman FR - The Doll's House

Don't even click "quote" on Mo's post, Warty. Don't go anywhere near that spoiler tag.
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