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Old 01-12-18, 01:58 AM   #1
sgtdraino
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The Last Jedi Hate Thread (contains spoilers)

With the rottentomatoes audience consensus now having dropped to 49%, I feel it might be an apt time for this, and useful to have a place for people to vent.

The more I reflect on this movie, the more I find that I hated it. I enjoyed it okay while I was watching it, but the more time that passes, the more that my brain actually tries to think about it, the more crappy this movie becomes to me. The bad comedy, the ridiculous plot holes, the utter disregard for continuity, the ham-fisted political messages, bad plot, bad writing, bad dialogue, bad acting. At a couple of points, it practically becomes a spoof of itself. One podcaster compared it to the sub-par writing and direction on the latest season of The Walking Dead, and I can totally see the comparison.

This thread will contain spoilers.

Here's a video! Warning, contains cursing:

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Old 01-13-18, 01:34 AM   #2
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Re: The Last Jedi Hate Thread (contains spoilers)

Meh, the franchise was ruined for me by the prequels. I treat the movies that come out as lazy popcorn movies made to sell merchandise. I'll watch episode 9 and hold out some hope for the films after they put the skywalkers to rest.
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Old 01-13-18, 05:27 AM   #3
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Old 01-14-18, 07:10 AM   #4
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Old 01-14-18, 03:51 PM   #5
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Re: The Last Jedi Hate Thread (contains spoilers)

lol i like that vid, ff
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Old 01-16-18, 11:32 PM   #6
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Re: The Last Jedi Hate Thread (contains spoilers)

lol that Jody guy is hilarious. Here's a video of just him reviewing the film. Best part is at 3:30 where Jody reacts to a video of himself from before, predicting how AWESOME Last Jedi is going to be!



This one is also pretty funny:

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Old 01-17-18, 05:24 PM   #7
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Re: The Last Jedi Hate Thread (contains spoilers)

I went and saw it opening night.
Loved it.

I haven't been to see it again, but I really have no beef with it at all.
Sure, the Snoke take down was a little less dramatic than I would have expected it to be, but the shock value was through the roof for me. Rey and Kylo throwing down in Ming's chamber? Cool! STAR WARS!!!

Leia using the force? I geeked so hard, I fell out of my seat.

Jumping to hyperspace to destroy a dreadnaught? The silence vacuum in the theater was AWESOME. Opening night, packed house, and the only sound you could hear was ME saying "whoa".

I thought Luke went out like a boss. His final scene got me a little choked up. The two suns brought me back to the first time I watched IV and I just loved it all.

I think there's a sort of "group think" thing that happens with a lot of things nowadays. Whether it's because of aggregate sites like RT or Metacritic, sounding boards like Reddit or this place, or it's just the way things are now, I find that whenever a movie/book/TV show/game/etc is generally well received that there is ALWAYS an upswell of critics that will do everything they can to rail against the positive "norm". Eventually, it's picked apart by people that used to at least LIKE it, and many can be convinced that it's simply mediocre because the "experts" said it was.
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Old 01-17-18, 11:25 PM   #8
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Re: The Last Jedi Hate Thread (contains spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
I went and saw it opening night.
Loved it.
I'm so glad you're in here, Mapinguari, because a lot of us really don't understand what you guys (and many critics) are seeing in it. I would like to take a more detailed analysis of your thoughts, and I'd like to know what you think of the reasons why a lot of us had big problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
Sure, the Snoke take down was a little less dramatic than I would have expected it to be, but the shock value was through the roof for me.
One thing I feel like I keep seeing among those who liked it, I get the impression that a lot of you guys take the view that shock value automatically = good. That the objective of good story-telling and good movie-making is to do the unexpected. I fundamentally disagree with that. I'm not saying that doing the expected is better than doing the unexpected, but I am saying that the unexpected is not inherently good (or bad). It's actually quite easy to go in an unexpected direction with a story... but it's also exceedingly easy to end up somewhere dumb, too.

Last Jedi is an even odder animal, in that while a lot of supporters are arguing that it subverted expectations (and is therefore for some reason "good"), quite a lot of the film's plot is like a bad mashup ripoff of Empire and Return of the Jedi.

A common complaint I hear from those who didn't like the film, was that Snoke's background was one of many things they expected to learn about, wanted to learn about. When Abrams did Force Awakens, he purposefully left a lot of plot threads for the next movie to pick up. Sort of a roadmap, foreshadowing. The identity of Snoke was one of those. This is clearly a character who is so old, he had to have been around back during Luke's heyday. And he's super-powerful. Who was he? Where did he come from? How did he come into power? With Last Jedi, he comes off as more of a plot device than a character, only there to move the story along, like the makers don't want us to be thinking too hard about him... and yet the setup from Force Awakens was specifically designed to have us speculating about him. The setup with Snoke in the first movie, followed by the sudden discarding of the character, feels like an inconsistency in the plot. And really, it very much is: The makers have admitted that there is no arc planned out for the films, each director is just winging it, just making it up as they go along, going off in whatever direction strikes their fancy at the time. It's like the campfire story game, where you take turns adding to the story, until some asshole starts his turn with, "and then Johnny woke up from his dream." That's an entertaining exercise, but it doesn't make for a good or satisfying story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
Rey and Kylo throwing down in Ming's chamber? Cool! STAR WARS!!!
That was actually probably my favorite scene in the movie, and the plot between Rey and Kylo was IMO the most interesting part of the film. It was a cool fight, it was cool seeing them work together, even if it ultimately goes nowhere (nobody has a character change, they just split and go their separate ways after). Plus there's a couple of things with the scene that don't make sense:

1. Snoke is super-powerful, seems to be more powerful than the Emperor or Vader, and yet he does not sense that Kylo is getting ready to turn on him even at the very instant that Kylo is in his presence, turning on him, and Snoke is talking about that very subject. I feel like this is supposed to be a sort-of homage to the scene where Vader turns on the Emperor, but with that plot, the Emperor does sense quite early that there is conflict in Vader, and Vader only gets the jump on him because he's distracted by his gleeful force lightning murder of Luke.

2. Rey is an untrained Mary Sue, and in this scene fights better than Kylo, and has no difficulty taking out all these elite guards. Now, some might say that Luke gave her some training... yeah, a little bit. VERY little. Like, literally a matter of hours. Consider it: The entire plot of this movie is confined to a matter of hours, the time that it takes the resistance fleet to run out of gas (don't get me started). Because Rey and Kylo's ForceTime skype conversations take place periodically during this ticking clock, that means the entirety of Rey's interaction with Luke is also confined to a matter of hours. She comes, visits with Luke for a few hours, and leaves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
Leia using the force? I geeked so hard, I fell out of my seat.
I like the idea of Leia using the Force a lot. The problem with this one was all in the execution. As in, for a lot of us, seeing Leia flying through space like that just looked effing stupid. Not to mention nobody getting sucked out of the airlock door when she pops it open. SOD got broken pretty hard. Also, it feels like they drop the idea of Leia with Force powers for the rest of the movie after that, she doesn't help out with the rocks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
Jumping to hyperspace to destroy a dreadnaught? The silence vacuum in the theater was AWESOME. Opening night, packed house, and the only sound you could hear was ME saying "whoa".
This one had the opposite problem of flying space Leia; it looked really cool, but it is inconsistent with the rules of the universe, and basically breaks the universe. As many have already said, if it was possible to take out mega-ships by lightspeeding into them, this is a tactic that would have been used in battles ever since the hyperdrive was invented. There would be ships designed just for this, probably with droid pilots. It would be a well-known tactic, and would then beg the question as to why Snoke didn't use this against the fleeing Resistance cruiser. Can't catch it? Just lightspeed a star destroyer into it, and probably take out the rest of the fleet at the same time, just like Admiral Purple Hair did. It also begs the question as to why, as the Resistance fleet ships got low on fuel, why didn't they turn each one of them around one at a time, and lightspeed it into the First Order?

As far as inconsistency with the rules of the universe, at the end of Rogue One, the Rebel Fleet is attempting to lightspeed away from Scarif, but Darth Vader's star destroyer jumps into their path. A few ships manage to escape into hyperspace, but one transport just smashes to death on the star destroyer. No damage is caused to the star destroyer.

So, in summation, this might have been a really cool visual, but if you actually think about it, its pretty stupid. And that goes for a lot of things in this movie: Looks pretty, but is really, really stupid when you think about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
I thought Luke went out like a boss. His final scene got me a little choked up. The two suns brought me back to the first time I watched IV and I just loved it all.
The problem a lot of us had with this one, was that it would have been a satisfying plot if they had gone one way or the other: If Luke had done the fake-out, and then actually lived to fight another day, that would have been cool. If Luke had actually physically been there fighting Kylo, and really went out like a boss, that also would have been fitting. But to have him do the fake-out, seemingly escape, but then just keel over and die anyway alone on that planet, for a lot of us that was just not satisfying. For all we know he didn't really go back because he was a coward, and only keeled over and died by accident. That's not going out like a boss. I don't really even see a logical reason why he died afterward, other than Disney wanted him out of the franchise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapinguari View Post
I think there's a sort of "group think" thing that happens with a lot of things nowadays. Whether it's because of aggregate sites like RT or Metacritic, sounding boards like Reddit or this place, or it's just the way things are now, I find that whenever a movie/book/TV show/game/etc is generally well received that there is ALWAYS an upswell of critics that will do everything they can to rail against the positive "norm". Eventually, it's picked apart by people that used to at least LIKE it, and many can be convinced that it's simply mediocre because the "experts" said it was.
If it's actually solid storytelling, then it shouldn't be so easy to pick apart. I think it's hard to argue that this isn't an extremely flawed movie.

Check this guy out, he's pretty articulate:



Also, for anyone interested in the infamous petition going around, here's the link to it:

https://www.change.org/p/the-walt-di...official-canon

I can't imagine that this petition will be successful in its goal, but simply to make a statement of my feelings, I am signer #86587.
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Old 01-18-18, 09:31 AM   #9
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Re: The Last Jedi Hate Thread (contains spoilers)

I got no further than this paragraph:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdraino
One thing I feel like I keep seeing among those who liked it, I get the impression that a lot of you guys take the view that shock value automatically = good. That the objective of good story-telling and good movie-making is to do the unexpected. I fundamentally disagree with that. I'm not saying that doing the expected is better than doing the unexpected, but I am saying that the unexpected is not inherently good (or bad). It's actually quite easy to go in an unexpected direction with a story... but it's also exceedingly easy to end up somewhere dumb, too.
and had to stop to rewind...over thirty years. Coming out of the UA 150 Cinema with my mom, friend Dan and his mother Georgine after watching The Empire Strikes Back. Shock value? "You killed my father!" "No Luke. I am your father." That was it right there. That shock reveal was parodied for years to come. The hint that Luke and Leia were brother and sister ( "There is another" ) meant the nobody was surprised when it was stated as fact, and that set the table for the universally disappointing prequels, but in the grand scheme of Star Wars as a trilogy that concept is pointless. The Empire would still ultimately have been defeated if Luke had not been Vader's son, not been Leia's brother.

Imagine Lucas writing the tale differently...

Luke: You killed my father!
Vader: No. Your father killed himself. He wanted to follow me to the Dark Side but did not have the strength to grasp it. He was weak but you are strong. I can feel it inside you. Come...join me. Search in your heart for what you know to be true. You are a greater Jedi than your father ever was. Join with me and rule the galaxy.
Luke: NO!!!

See, no gasp shock reveal, things can still work out pretty much the same from that point and we don't get A) three crappy movies about Little Ani growing up to be Evil Vader, and B) a whole slew of "canon" Jedi Academy books published for twenty years just to keep Lucas in beer and skittles so he can get fat waiting to make said crappy movies.
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Old 01-18-18, 04:51 PM   #10
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Re: The Last Jedi Hate Thread (contains spoilers)

The Last Jedi was terrible.

It's not even worth the time it would take for me to talk about every thing I hated about it.
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