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LOST Theories So you think you know some secrets of the island? Maybe you can explain everything. If it's original and you can back it up, we'd love to hear it.

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Old 03-06-08, 07:34 AM   #51
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Re: + Imaginary Time, Imaginary Space and EM Consciousness

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Originally Posted by treesong View Post
But it's a good point, one I tried to make earlier. What is observation? Why does a little machine make the photon behave one way, while our eye doesn't?

The first thing I'd say is that it is more or less proof that the Templars idea of consciousness causing collapse is incorrect.

But still...

In the real world, I think we have no answer. What about the world of Lost?
Well, I think I am now, if not in complete agreeance, ready to relate all of this to Lost in some way.


Quote:
Don't forget the stars.
Merely holes in the firmament, my friend.

Quote:
It's like being caught in a net.

But yes, it's the infinity thing. Perhaps they worked their way around it. I'm not sure, I always disregard it, because of my prejudice against the infinity thing. I could try to find something more about it. You know, dive into the wiki-sea.
*shudder* Not on my account, I beg.

Wiki's opinion doesn't interest me that much, although yours does.

Quote:
Well, first of all, the double-slit experiment isn't really the premise of the theory presented in the OP (that's what we are still talking about, right?). And I hate to disappoint you, but single photons exist. If I were you, I wouldn't look into that as a way to win the Nobel prize.
Way to crush a girl's dreams. I was already writing my acceptance speech.

If you say they exist, sure, fine, we can go along with that. However, we have to admit the vast realms of uncertainly about them.

Quote:
The lack of pressure, I almost can't handle it.
Like fish with bulging eyes, pulled from the depths of a trench in the Pacific Ocean, coming speeding towards the surface.

Or, well, that's the idea that popped to mind.

Quote:
Perhaps we did wander off a bit. But I already reminded Vonne. And the brain always needs some distraction before spitting out the really brilliant ideas. I'm counting on you, Vonne.
How splendid-- another person to disappoint.

But yes. Back to the regularly scheduled programming. As you say-- despite what may happen in OUR world-- what is going to happen in Lost?
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Old 03-06-08, 12:36 PM   #52
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Re: + Imaginary Time, Imaginary Space and EM Consciousness

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Old 03-06-08, 06:12 PM   #53
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Re: + Imaginary Time, Imaginary Space and EM Consciousness

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I... I win?
My hero !!!

Where do I sign up to be a minion?

Vonne might need to change her signature.
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Old 03-06-08, 06:27 PM   #54
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Re: + Imaginary Time, Imaginary Space and EM Consciousness

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Old 03-06-08, 11:35 PM   #55
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Re: + Imaginary Time, Imaginary Space and EM Consciousness

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Old 03-07-08, 03:07 PM   #56
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Re: + Imaginary Time, Imaginary Space and EM Consciousness

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First, the incident. We have seen several times that communication with the outside world is no problem, so it's really using the computer for communication, and specifically the computer in the Swann. We've also seen that those Whispers can appear in the station. So, I'm thinking, perhaps they can use the computer memory as a buffer, and escape the island through the uplink. And they (or he, or it) reached out to the anomaly for a power boost. It could have caused the leakage, if Dharma didn't drill a hole, or it could just have caused some major electrical discharge. The latter probably not, as it would fry the computer. Did it succeed in escaping?
Where would they go?

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But I see no green light path where Vonne will change that part of her signature, I'm afraid.
I'll just call you Malkin.

Quote:
Here's another neat idea.

Daniel's chalkboard mentions "Temporal sloshing" and "Temporal double well."

The well refers to a potential well. It's a place where energy is minimal, that is, when you get there you gain energy, and when you want to leave it costs energy, while if you stay, energy remains the same. The easiest example of a potential well is a gravity well, like earth. If you fall to earth from outer space, you gain speed. If you want to leave earth, you need to reach escape velocity. While if you walk around on earth, you neither gain or lose energy from gravity. There is, of course, other energy floating around; it's only a potential well with respect to gravity.

A double well is a place where you have two wells nearby, with a little hill in between:



The moon and the earth together are a double well. There's a point between the moon and the earth, where they pull with the same force, and you stay at the same place. That's the top of the hill. If you move a bit to either side, you fall to the moon or the earth.
Is that actually true? That there is a "top of the hill" between the earth and the moon?

Quote:
To have a temporal well, you'd need temporal energy. Which is not a scientific concept. But Hawking's article in my OP talks a bit about the energy we do know about:



But the universe also has a beginning, and probably an end. And when the universe expanded in space-time, borrowing gravitational energy, it also expanded in time, borrowing temporal energy. That is, matter and its ability to move is borrowed from the gravitational energy. But it having a past and a future relates to temporal energy.

(It's important to realize that space-time says nothing about time. It's space in all directions, but only a single point on the time dimension.)

So, when an object has E = Mc^2 in space-time, it would have something like E = Lc^2 in time, with L its Lifespan. We don't know, because we can't move freely along the timeline to experiment and measure.
"But the universe also has a beginning, and probably an end"

How do you know?

Quote:
The island is a temporal well. It means that, while time on the island, and off the island is the same, you either gain or lose temporal energy when you go to or from the island, respectively.

When you go to the island, you have to find an angle not to crash-land, or burn up as you would in the atmosphere. So that takes a bit more fuel than you'd need. But it's nice to survive. Leaving the island costs extra energy. And just like rockets leaving the earth atmosphere, it's more efficient to fly in a curve. All this curving takes extra time, and that's why you "lose time."
Cute explanation.

Quote:
The helicopter never had enough energy to leave the island. But fortunately, when Desmond traveled to the past in his purple sky adventure, he created a temporal well in the past. And apparently, one of the rules of temporal energy is that it is cheaper to get the energy needed from another well, than from normal energy. Cheaper, but also slower.

Because these wells are at a distance of eight years, the hill from the picture is reasonably flat. The potential energy there is probably used for Desmond's trips, and for the course corrections that had to be made on the paths between past-Desmond and now-Desmond.
Now you've lost me. Are you saying that Desmond being onboard made it possible for the helicopter the make the trip back to the freighter?

Quote:
So, we have a kind of bridge in time between Desmond in 1996 and 2004. And everyone close to that bridge gets drawn to it. That is, you end up on the island. All the connections between the people are random, they don't mean a thing. But it all connected them to Desmond as well, which brought them closer to the bridge, and closer to each other.
"Everyone close to that bridge"? Desmond's purple-sky incident somehow afflicted those on the plane in some way, and guided them to all be on the plane?

Quote:
Furthermore, I think Ms. Hawking is someone who is able to spot these temporal wells, and move close to them. She probably saw the bridge as well, and just had to make sure that Desmond didn't get out of this well another way. He had to follow the bridge.
Now, why would she do that?

Quote:
The cool aspect of this, is that the barrier, the wall of the potential wall, doesn't cost energy to maintain. Like the energy of mass, it's borrowed energy. And like you can spot large masses in space, you can spot the island in time. So, it is indeed a topological feature of space-time/time.


Now, I haven't worked the details out yet. It's still possible that island and real world are at a slightly different time, or that you can travel to the past. But I think Daniel's experiment, and all the other comings and goings, provides us with enough evidence to work it out. It's also still possible that it's not the island that is the well, but the barrier, forming a "time moat" around the island.
Would the island be the hill of the well?

Quote:
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All right, working out the details. I must admit, I'm thinking about this in terms of earth and space, and I have a hard time to wrap my brain about converting it to time. But I try. I think these are the rules governing this temporal well.
  1. Where from earth you can go to any three-dimensional direction to space to end up in a location around the earth, from the island the different bearings bring you to different times. If you will, there's a circle around the island, and each degree represents a different time.
  2. The radius of the circle determines how much forward and how much backward in time you can go.
How can you go forward in time? Are we talking about pre-determination?

Quote:
Bearing 325 either guides you to a gentle path along the slope, or it contains some "rocket booster" to give you "escape velocity."
Something to keep in mind-- Ben didn't say "follow this bearing, and you will escape." He said "You will find rescue." And Walt is looking a hell of a lot older.

Quote:
Traveling on a curve costs energy. Normally it's taken from real world energy, like fuel, but temporal energy is preferred. Temporal energy is only available if someone connected to another temporal well is available.
How do you get one of these temporal wells, again?

Quote:
It's not a moat; sailing boats don't reach escape velocity. So they could fall down, but they would never be able to leave the moat. And we know, they do end up on the island.
What?
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Old 03-07-08, 04:50 PM   #57
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Re: + Imaginary Time, Imaginary Space and EM Consciousness

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Old 03-08-08, 09:16 PM   #58
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Re: + Imaginary Time, Imaginary Space and EM Consciousness

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Old 03-09-08, 12:42 AM   #59
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Re: + Imaginary Time, Imaginary Space and EM Consciousness

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Old 03-09-08, 11:44 AM   #60
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Re: + Imaginary Time, Imaginary Space and EM Consciousness

I think one of the keys to Ben's abilities rests in the scene where he first meets Richard.

Richard really isn't paying too much attention to him until Ben discloses that his mother (who he has seen on the island) died off island some time ago. That disclosure grabbed Richard's attention and he realized that Ben was someone very special.

I could be wrong, but I think Hurley is the only other person to see someone on the island that was never there (or their dead body was never there) and that was his imaginary friend Dave.
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