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LOST Theories So you think you know some secrets of the island? Maybe you can explain everything. If it's original and you can back it up, we'd love to hear it.

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Old 05-23-09, 05:25 AM   #1
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+ (Revised) The Weaver and The Reaver

================================================
To skip directly to the revised posting, click here ->
Revision
The Revision is a fully updated theory. There are only few revisions basically, but they affect things broadly.
================================================


" The mere flapping of a
butterfly's wings may portend the coming of the greatest storm..."



The Nature of Things…

I think what we have in Jacob and his Nemesis is the culmination of the clues given to us ever since the Swan countdown clock came up hieroglyphics, perhaps even earlier.
A hieroglyph is not a mere indication of a phonetic sound or word, but a depiction of the idea the form is communicating, a picture of the nature of that idea. Further, the type of ‘gods’ that have been presented, are not depictions of greater persons whom act arbitrarily, but are the embodiment of a concept or concepts. The following is a short list of such that have been brought up in discussion with a very generalized indication of their principalities/domains.

Tawaret: Fear (or later: Procreation)
Thoth: Enlightenment
Quetzalcoatl: Balance
Apollo: Energy

I think that Jacob and Nemesis too are best understood as the personifications of concepts, or principals.

JACOB: The Principal of Change (Domain: expansion, development, progression, emergence, etc.)

NEMESIS: The Principal of Conformity (Domain: compliance, regulation, uniformity, entropy, etc.)

Thinking in terms of Nature: These two will never be found far from each other, yet they will always have differing views of the Order of Things. One fails without the other; without Change nature spirals into an inert homogeny- without Conformity nature spins out in a chaotic dissolution.
The Two, by definition, are both Lawful, Consistent, and Immortal.
Then come Humans.
Unlike other aspects of nature, Humans can seem… irregular. Whereas Jacob construes this as a dynamic that can and will lead to an important, positive change- Nemesis sees it as an inherent defect, leading only to corruption and unbalance.
Over this the ‘gods’ contest, but there are Rules, that are derived of their nature, and by their nature are constrained to comply.

The Law


Jacob’s Rules in Regard to Humanity: In light of the idea that humanity has it within themselves to transcend their present state, Jacob can do little to help in that progress, for then it would demonstrate the inability of humanity. But he can do things found within his Domain: Heal , Advise alternatives, Draw individuals to an important point. In each case the individual is still on their own, not constrained to any one specific choice.

Nemesis’ Rules in Regard to Humanity: In light of the idea that humanity is bereft of natural conventions to fulfill it’s existence properly, and are in fact self-destructive, Nemesis can do little to hurry their demise, for then it would be an outside force that destroyed them, and not themselves. But he can do things found within his Domain: Confound, Remind of weakness, Dissipation. Again with the individual(s) still having options.
[Please become familiar with each of their Domains before telling me “what they can do makes no sense“.]

Jacob's and Nemesis' Rules Regarding Each Other: There are none.

Why would there be? They themselves are Law, Principals that are part of the overall makeup of the Universe. Something like "They can't kill each other unless one of their minions , having a tattoo of a polar bear, rises during the full moon..." whatever, would just be arbitrary and nonsensical. And besides, as stated above:
Quote:
One fails without the other
So in order for something like a 'killing' to happen between them, an alteration of reality would have to occur; and for that to happen, one of them would have to purposefully cause a rift, a hole in the fabric of the universe...

Why did TPTB include this scene in 'Follow The Leader'?
To remind the audience of... what exactly?
Quote:
LOCKE: You still have that compass I gave you?

[Richard reaches into his pocket and retrieves the compass.]

RICHARD: A little rusty... but she can still find north.
Now who has the compass?
Quote:
LOCKE: (interrupting) Now just listen. This is the important part. You're gonna need to tell him that he has to bring everyone who left... back to the Island. And when he asks how to do that... you tell him he's gonna have to die.
And that's it. Nothing about "Give him the compass" to give back later next time he sees him.
Would Richard think to give him the compass on his own? Why would he, when he knows it didn't make any difference the first time?
Let's say he does have the compass, and does pass it on... that compass is decaying. How long can that go on for?

What is happening here?
Is there a Law being contravened?

What will happen when that compass is not there anymore?:

Butterfly_effect Butterfly_effect
Quote:
...The flapping wing represents a small change in the initial condition of the system, which causes a chain of events leading to large-scale alterations of events...
More good stuff:
http://sciencedude.freedomblogging.c...ricane-season/

(The following spoiler tagged items are additions to the theory as it grew, and are also posted later in the thread. I copied them here in attempt to update the theory
and show the complete idea in the first post)
Spoiler: Being Drawn to the Island

They Were Going to Die Anyway
The idea that the passengers of flight 815 were waylaid to become unwitting and unwilling pawns in this game and therefore forced into this conflict (seemingly a violation of Jacob’s/Nemesis Rules regarding Humanity) may not be entirely accurate.
We know that Desmond’s delay in pressing the button brought the plane down upon the Island.
But the plane lost all communication and navigational equipment over an hour before the plane crash. Further, as the plane descended it broke in half. Apparently in disrepair, this plane was doomed before any EMP hit it.
I would say that being brought to the Island wasn’t an interruption of their lives, rather it was their death that was interrupted.
So, they pay back this borrowed time by engaging in the struggle of the party that gave it to them.
This may have also been the case with the Black Rock- but- I am not saying that it is the case with any and all who come to the Island, just the 815.

The Pilot
Why Seth died: It was essential that any conventions of ‘civilization’ be removed. His presence would have hindered the ‘development’ of the situation for he would have assumed the leadership role, and the ‘leadership vacuum’ struggle that we saw would not have happened.
Seth Norris was already set in his ways and could no longer be ‘shaped’.
NOTE: He was going to die anyway.

The Black Rock
A few thoughts… some already presented I’m sure, but perhaps now maybe in a different light.
I have no idea what informs John Locke’s conclusion that not only was it a slave ship, but also that it had disembarked from Mozambique. It seems quite dubious that Jacob, in an attempt to prove Nemesis wrong about humanity, would purposefully draw people of such low and mean character as slavers. The unfortunate ones held captive by them do not, for various reasons, offer much promise either. What an awful choice!
I’m still holding out for the theory that it was a legal enterprise en route to Australia. A ship containing entrepreneurs (miners), adventurous colonists, various professions involving exploration (science), some old salts, and a few felons on their way to the penal complex there.
Now that seems like a group Jacob could work with. Maybe even the felons… especially if their incarceration was of a political nature. I think those stowed below in chains are going to turn out to be some very interesting people.
I really wonder if the Black Rock intended to come upon the Island in any way or was their journey ‘interrupted’ as well.
Also, I wonder if their was a mutiny involved… might explain the Ship’s Mate’s journal ending up in Mozambique.


Spoiler: The Good, The Bad, and the Baby
Roundabout
On the Island, whether it’s John on walkabout searching for a new beginning, or Jack on runabout searching for closure, the Losties are met with unusual experiences- all at the hands of either Jacob or Nemesis… or both.
Before I deal with specific events (mostly in part 2) I want to try to make clear the following idea… which I’m afraid might not be easy.
Neither Jacob or Nemesis are irresistible, options must remain for whoever they are trying to ‘influence’… but let me clarify ‘influence’: More like ‘trying to get the target person to act/react according to an aspect of their own nature that is already there’.
So rather than Jacob or Nemesis trying to get that person to do what they want them to do (like a politician or salesman)- it’s more like trying to get the person to do what he/she ought to do (like a supervisor). But- Because of the differing Natures of both Jacob and Nemesis, they have differing views of what part of human nature defines humanity, and therefore differ on what they ‘ought’ to do.
Hence the conflict.
They must go this roundabout way or the position/nature of their argument concerning humanity becomes compromised.
Let’s see how this conflict manifested itself in Aaron’s story line:

What Child is This?
Could Aaron be a ‘breakthrough’ human that one day will take humanity to the next level, as Jacob believes is possible? I think Nemesis suspects it, and wants to ‘contain this anomaly’ before it(he) starts any real trouble- like a rancher who finds out one inside the herd has Mad Cow Disease.
1st: The Seer - Malkin, on the side of Jacob, sends Claire purposefully on 815- the only Lostie whose boarding the flight was trouble free. (more on that in part 2).
2nd: The Dragon and the Maid - After the crash Claire is concerned that the unborn child is not active, perhaps Nemesis is. One day after an act of kindness the child kicks, was it the food or the act that fed this resurgence?
3rd: The Hiding Place - Jacob has the Others secure the child by having Claire taken from among the Losties.
4th: The Dragon’s Breath - Alex, after seeing other pregnant women die, erroneously concludes that Claire’s life is in danger. She abducts her from the safekeeping of Jacob. Danielle, generally influenced by Nemesis, brings Claire back to one of the most dangerous places on the Island- with the Losties. Ethan, though holding a high position among the Others and with Jacob, defies him and pursues his own design.
5th: Birth - Due to even more strife, the child is born under dire circumstances. But the child’s health cannot be directly assailed, Aaron is fine.
6th: Fools Rush In - Between Charlie and Danielle, few children have been put in such danger as Aaron. But Aaron is not without an advocate.
7th: Exile - Nemesis/Christian fools Claire into separating her from her baby in Space, Nemesis/Christian fools John and Ben into separating them in Time.
8th: ...

The Numbers
We can conclude that the numbers were a focus of D.I. research.
You don’t have to convince Hurley that the numbers represent something ‘bad‘, and we can see that misfortune occurred as the D.I. delved into that area.
I would say that the numbers are related to what Nemesis believes to be the limitations, and therefore the failure of humanity. Any ‘use’ of these numbers would become a demonstration of that failure, as they represent what you might call a ’formula for ruin’.
To “open the box”, As Leonard put it, is to allow the limitations that this set of numbers represents to nullify the greater potential of whatever one seeks to achieve.
Nemesis is probably responsible for steering individuals in the direction of focusing on them, as it is his desire to hasten what he feels is the inevitable downfall of man. The ‘cure for the curse’ is do what Hurley did with the van; to consider the numbers no longer, but instead to look beyond them.
If the numbers are ‘bad’, then rather than ‘correct’ or ‘alter’ them (which isn‘t going to happen… 23 is going to stay 23)... such effort means to focus on them- leading to disaster... the solution is to aim beyond them.

Sort of like guilt, the best way to deal with it is to not dwell on it.


Spoiler: Misc
The Black Horse
Kate is visited by a manifestation of a Black Horse.
Horses, not only synonymous with Power, have a singular Grace, often referred to as ’That Way Of Going’. For Kate, the manifestation of the Black Horse can be a representation of that Powerful Grace; a ‘living sign’ of forgiveness.
Was the first time Kate saw that horse Jacob’s doing as well?

Riding A Nightmare

In What Child is This? above I indicated Nemesis at work. Here I will present the efforts of Jacob. Locke has a dream, actually a nightmare, regarding his efforts to open the "Hatch'. It is a warning from Jacob.

Text in Blue is mine. Bold done by me.

BOONE: Don't you get it? It's a dead end. You're not getting in.
It IS a dead end, it will not lead Locke to understanding the nature of the Island which he seeks, instead he will run afoul of The Numbers, which are a ‘dead end’ in themselves..
LOCKE: That's impossible. We didn't find this by accident. We're supposed to...

BOONE: Oh, we're supposed to. We're supposed to find this, right? We're supposed to open it, right? Then tell me something, John, if we're supposed to open it, then why the hell haven't we opened it yet?
Self explanatory, Jacob trying to overcome John’s stubbornness, which has never served him well.
LOCKE: The island will send us a sign.
He’s getting that sign right now.
BOONE [sarcastically]: The island will send us a sign.
Not getting in was the first sign.
LOCKE: All that's happening now is our faith is being tested - our commitment. But we will open it. The island will show us how.
The Island never did. Danielle, who certainly is not one of Jacob’s people, and is arguably influenced by Nemesis, showed him how.
BOONE: What kind of kind of sign will the island send us? Huh, John?

[We hear the sound of an airplane engine. Locke looks up to see a small, smoking plane looking like it's going to crash.]
Like what John is headed for, a bad portent.
LOCKE [pointing]: Did you see that? Boone?

[Boone is looking up at the sky. There's a quick inserted shot of Boone all bloody. Locke hears a metallic sound (it is the sound of ceramic breaking) and looks around to see his mother pointing.]
Ceramic breaking: The statues containing heroin, but also; the breaking of a ‘clay vessel’ = Death...
Bloody Boone: This should have been obvious enough- BAD, John, BAD.
Anywhere his mother points is a place not to go.
BOONE [bloody]: Theresa falls up the stairs. Theresa falls down the stairs. Theresa falls up the stairs. Theresa falls down the stairs.

[Locke is in a wheelchair, his mother pointing up in the background.]
Two of the most unfortunate things that have happened to him in his life are being equated with his efforts regarding the ‘Hatch’.
LOCKE: No, no, no, please.

BOONE [overlapping with Locke]: Theresa falls up the stairs. Theresa falls down the stairs.
We find out later that this is a reference to tragedy.
LOCKE [trying to get out of the wheelchair, falling]: Don't take it back.

[We see Locke at night on the beach, waking up frightened from a dream. He checks his legs to see if he can feel them.]

Unfortunately, John does not heed the warning. A great deal of misfortune occurs because of this.

Richard

Haven’t a clue, really.
But I will say that the main reason why Jacob got killed is because Richard did not abide by the regulations he was entrusted with. He took ‘Locke’ to see Jacob when he should have resisted his insistence (which he has done before). We’ve seen him disregard the authority of Charles, Eloise, and Ben. Why should he be any different with the newbie? And then, most importantly, he let Ben go in with him which was a flagrant violation.
There was no ‘loophole’ here, regarding the opportunity for murder, it happened because the rules were blatantly broken.


Spoiler: Manifestations, The Cabin, and the Goal
The Goal
I think the challenge that is presented to any who are drawn to the Island has mainly to do with the unique energy source there. Though some have come before the 'Computer Age', 'Rocket Age', even the 'Industrial Age', it doesn't matter (for it could be possible that the Wheel was put in place by a previous 'group' that was drawn there long ago).
So people come to the Island, find an energy/power/magic source and then seek to put it to use. Along the way human nature manifests itself- both in creativity and ingenuity, as well as avarice and treachery... ambition leading to corruption.
Nemesis maintains that it will always "end that way" where as Jacob contends that each time it happens there is progress made toward an eventual success when man will realize the various potentials, and the healing and power of the 'magic box' without turning into a complete jerk about it.

The Manifestations
Christian: Jack's pursuit of the image of his Dad almost lead to his death, falling off the bluff that Locke rescued him from. I see this this 'cat &mouse' game as nothing but malicious, instigated by Nemesis, with the intent of Jack winding up dead.The death of the potential leader of the Losties would help to hasten the failure of the group as a whole, something Nemesis would consider inevitable
Jack found the water/caves after this was over.

Yemi: Eko's pursuit of the image of his brother did lead to his death. Smokie had been pursuing Eko all the while he trekked toward the beechcraft; in fact seemed ready to pounce on him near the creek before Locke & Co. showed up. It may be that Locke's presence stays the beast. The image of Yemi lured him away from the close proximity of Locke and into the jungle to a waiting Smokie.
Nemesis would be glad to be rid of a man who had such strength of conviction.

Dave: The image of 'Dave' tried to get Hurley to kill himself. Nemesis again. The guileless nature of Hugo Reyes would be a great threat to Nemesis' position that 'all of humanity is corrupt'.

Walt: The images of Walt got Shannon killed, creating dissension between some of the previously separated passengers. Later the image got Locke to murder Naomi causing big, important problems between the Freighties and the Losties

Christian again: Appearing to Claire- To separate her from Aaron (possibly his nemesis).
Appearing to Locke- To get him (and Ben) to initiate the events that lead to the utilization of the 'loophole'. Moving the Island was not necessary and was a mistake. So was bringing back the O6... initially.
Appearing to Michael- Nemesis gloating.

Ben's Mother: Entices Ben through intrigue to betray and eventually help slaughter the D.I. population, whom enjoyed a long truce with Jacob's people. We still as yet do not know what lead to the 'Purge'. Machinations of Nemesis through Ben?

Jacob seems to strive to influence people through aspects of their better nature (something Nemesis doesn't acknowledge is there). The above deceptions, images representing someone who really isn't there, I attribute to Nemesis, causing fear and confusion.
The following few I attribute to Jacob:

Kate's Horse: As I stated before this image represented Hope, even Forgiveness.I don't think it was actually Jacob per se, but perhaps a conjuration of sorts on his part, or even an actual horse (escaped from Zoocatraz, maybe) that Jacob brought to be at that place and at that time.
Locke's 'Soul of the Island': Difficult because we have so little to go on, even the testimony of Locke himself concerning this event can be suspect. Perhaps another conjuration of Jacob's. It may have been an image shown by Smokie, displaying images (from one's mind) is one of the things that has been proven that Smokie can do. If so, might it have been an image from Locke's own mind? An abstract representation of Locke's own hopes and dreams? That might explain why Locke thought it was "beautiful".

The Cabin
I think the Cabin was a 'sanctified' place (made so by the circle of protection around it) where the Hostiles/Others (or at least the Leader) could always be certain that the person inside was definitely Jacob, and not some devious impostor. When the circle was broken, that certainty was compromised and the Cabin becomes useless, even dangerous.
I don't think Horace had anything to do with the cabin. He may have had a schematic of the Cabin in his pocket as a result of intelligence gathering regarding important Hostile 'areas' , something that would concern him being a staff member of the Arrow station.

Thoughts?


Last edited by J_C; 02-01-10 at 04:36 AM.
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Old 05-23-09, 06:18 AM   #2
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Re: The Weaver and The Reaver

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_C View Post
Nemesis’ Rules in Regard to Humanity: In light of the idea that humanity is bereft of natural conventions to fulfill it’s existence properly, and are in fact self-destructive, Nemesis can do little to hurry their demise, for then it would be an outside force that destroyed them, and not themselves. But he can do things found within his Domain: Confound, Remind of weakness, Dissipation. Again with the individual(s) still having options.
I love this! I believe that Nemesis has been masquerading around as Christian, Yemi, and most recently Alex. I also don't believe that the smoke monster and Nemesis are the same entity, so Eko's death would still fit in with this. Looking forward to further posts on this topic!

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Old 05-23-09, 12:25 PM   #3
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Re: The Weaver and The Reaver

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Old 05-23-09, 03:11 PM   #4
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Re: The Weaver and The Reaver

Good analysis of the possible natures of the two "men."
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Old 05-25-09, 10:46 PM   #5
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Re: The Weaver and The Reaver

This weekend I will post the first of (at least) five season by season several topical summaries of important events having been affected by the conflict of Jacob and Nemesis (as regards this theory), and how these Two have been influencing the Losties and others as well.

I don't want them to run on too long, so if I pass over your 'favorite' important event let me know, though we may end up having to agree to disagree on it's importance. Example:
This is the most you will read from me about Vincent in this thread.

ETA - Seasonal summaries actually wouldn't make sense. There really aren't any 'seasons' in the story. Each season is not like a 'chapter'.
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Last edited by J_C; 06-21-09 at 02:16 AM. Reason: All of original text of this post merged with OP, above is all new text.
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Old 05-26-09, 08:16 PM   #6
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Re: The Weaver and The Reaver

How about Baal....would love to fit him in, you know, for old time's sakes.
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Old 06-07-09, 05:42 AM   #7
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Re: + The Weaver and The Reaver

Topical addendum - Part 1
As this group of topics has progressed I have indicated them by number as to the best order to read them in. Perhaps later on I will edit the posts to reflect this. It doesn't really matter though as they are basically topics.

2. The Pilot
Why Seth died: It was essential that any conventions of ‘civilization’ be removed. His presence would have hindered the ‘development’ of the situation for he would have assumed the leadership role, and the ‘leadership vacuum’ struggle that we saw would not have happened.
Seth Norris was already set in his ways and could no longer be ‘shaped’.
NOTE: He was going to die anyway. (more on that in part 2).
(Alternate reason why the pilot was killed by Smokie: Merely to give the audience a strong sense of the passengers being stranded in a terrible place.)

4. Roundabout
On the Island, whether it’s John on walkabout searching for a beginning, or Jack on runabout searching for closure, the Losties are met with unusual experiences- all at the hands of either Jacob or Nemesis… or both.
Before I deal with specific events (mostly in part 2) I want to try to make clear the following idea… which I’m afraid might not be easy.
Neither Jacob or Nemesis are irresistible, options must remain for whoever they are trying to ‘influence’… but let me clarify ‘influence’: More like ‘trying to get the target person to act/react according to an aspect of their own nature that is already there’.
So rather than Jacob or Nemesis trying to get that person to do what they want them to do (like a politician or salesman)- it’s more like trying to get the person to do what he/she ought to do (like a supervisor). But- Because of the differing Natures of both Jacob and Nemesis, they have differing views of what part of human nature defines humanity, and therefore differ on what they ‘ought’ to do.
Hence the conflict.
They must go this roundabout way or the position/nature of their argument concerning humanity becomes compromised.
Let’s see how this conflict manifested itself in Aaron’s story line:

5. What Child is This?
Could Aaron be a ‘breakthrough’ human that one day will take humanity to the next level, as Jacob believes is possible? I think Nemesis suspects it, and wants to ‘contain this anomaly’ before it(he) starts any real trouble- like a rancher who finds out one inside the herd has Mad Cow Disease.
1st: The Seer - Malkin, on the side of Jacob, sends Claire purposefully on 815- the only Lostie whose boarding the flight was trouble free. (more on that in part 2).
2nd: The Dragon and the Maid - After the crash Claire is concerned that the unborn child is not active, perhaps Nemesis is. One day after an act of kindness the child kicks, was it the food or the act that fed this resurgence?
3rd: The Hiding Place - Jacob has the Others secure the child by having Claire taken from among the Losties.
4th: The Dragon’s Breath - Alex, after seeing other pregnant women die, erroneously concludes that Claire’s life is in danger. She abducts her from the safekeeping of Jacob. Danielle, generally influenced by Nemesis, brings Claire back to one of the most dangerous places on the Island- with the Losties. Ethan, though holding a high position among the Others and with Jacob, defies him and pursues his own design.
5th: Birth - Due to even more strife, the child is born under dire circumstances. But the child’s health cannot be directly assailed, Aaron is fine.
6th: Fools Rush In - Between Charlie and Danielle, few children have been put in such danger as Aaron. But Aaron is not without an advocate.
7th: Exile - Nemesis/Christian fools Claire into separating her from her baby in Space, Nemesis/Christian fools John and Ben into separating them in Time.
8th: ...

6. The Numbers
We can conclude that the numbers were a focus of D.I. research.
You don’t have to convince Hurley that the numbers represent something ‘bad‘, and we can see that misfortune occurred as the D.I. delved into that area.
I would say that the numbers are related to what Nemesis believes to be the limitations, and therefore the failure of humanity. Any ‘use’ of these numbers would become a demonstration of that failure, as they represent what you might call a ’formula for ruin’.
To “open the box”, As Leonard put it, is to allow the imitations that this set of numbers represent to nullify the greater potential of whatever one seeks to achieve.
Nemesis is probably responsible for steering individuals in the direction of focusing on them, as it is his desire to hasten what he feels is the inevitable downfall of man. The ‘cure for the curse’ is do what Hurley did with the van; to consider the numbers no longer, but instead to look beyond them.
If the numbers are ‘bad’, then rather than ‘correct’ or ‘alter’ them (which isn‘t going to happen… 23 is going to stay 23... “What‘s done is done“)... such effort means to focus on them… leading to disaster- the solution is to aim beyond them.
Sort of like guilt, the best way to deal with it is to not dwell on it.

8. Riding A Nightmare
In What Child is This? above I indicated Nemesis at work. Here I will present the efforts of Jacob. Locke has a dream, actually a nightmare, regarding his efforts to open the "Hatch'. It is a warning from Jacob.
Spoiler: transcript with commentary

Text in Blue is mine. Bold done by me.

BOONE: Don't you get it? It's a dead end. You're not getting in.
It IS a dead end, it will not lead Locke to understanding the nature of the Island which he seeks, instead he will run afoul of The Numbers, which are a ‘dead end’ in themselves..
LOCKE: That's impossible. We didn't find this by accident. We're supposed to...

BOONE: Oh, we're supposed to. We're supposed to find this, right? We're supposed to open it, right? Then tell me something, John, if we're supposed to open it, then why the hell haven't we opened it yet?
Self explanatory, Jacob trying to overcome John’s stubbornness, which has never served him well.
LOCKE: The island will send us a sign.
He’s getting that sign right now.
BOONE [sarcastically]: The island will send us a sign.
Not getting in was the first sign.
LOCKE: All that's happening now is our faith is being tested - our commitment. But we will open it. The island will show us how.
The Island never did. Danielle, who certainly is not one of Jacob’s people, and is arguably influenced by Nemesis, showed him how.
BOONE: What kind of kind of sign will the island send us? Huh, John?

[We hear the sound of an airplane engine. Locke looks up to see a small, smoking plane looking like it's going to crash.]
Like what John is headed for, a bad portent.
LOCKE [pointing]: Did you see that? Boone?

[Boone is looking up at the sky. There's a quick inserted shot of Boone all bloody. Locke hears a metallic sound (it is the sound of ceramic breaking) and looks around to see his mother pointing.]
Ceramic breaking: The statues containing heroin, but also; the breaking of a ‘clay vessel’ = Death...
Bloody Boone: This should have been obvious enough- BAD, John, BAD.
Anywhere his mother points is a place not to go.
BOONE [bloody]: Theresa falls up the stairs. Theresa falls down the stairs. Theresa falls up the stairs. Theresa falls down the stairs.

[Locke is in a wheelchair, his mother pointing up in the background.]
Two of the most unfortunate things that have happened to him in his life are being equated with his efforts regarding the ‘Hatch’.
LOCKE: No, no, no, please.

BOONE [overlapping with Locke]: Theresa falls up the stairs. Theresa falls down the stairs.
We find out later that this is a reference to tragedy.
LOCKE [trying to get out of the wheelchair, falling]: Don't take it back.

[We see Locke at night on the beach, waking up frightened from a dream. He checks his legs to see if he can feel them.]


Unfortunately, John does not heed the warning. A great deal of misfortune occurs because of this.

(Part 2 hopefully by next weekend)


Thoughts?

Last edited by J_C; 06-21-09 at 02:09 AM.
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Old 06-21-09, 02:03 AM   #8
J_C
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Re: + The Weaver and The Reaver

Topical Addendum part 2
As this group of topics has progressed I have indicated them by number as to the best order to read them in. Perhaps later on I will edit the posts to reflect this. It doesn't really matter though as they are basically topics.

1. They Were Going to Die Anyway The idea that the passengers of flight 815 were waylaid to become unwitting and unwilling pawns in this game and therefore forced into this conflict (seemingly a violation of Jacob’s/Nemesis Rules regarding Humanity) may not be entirely accurate.
We know that Desmond’s delay in pressing the button brought the plane down upon the Island.
But the plane lost all communication and navigational equipment over an hour before the plane crash. Further, as the plane descended it broke in half. Apparently in disrepair, this plane was doomed before any EMP hit it.
I would say that being brought to the Island wasn’t an interruption of their lives, rather it was their death that was interrupted.
So, they pay back this borrowed time by engaging in the struggle of the party that gave it to them.
This may have also been the case with the Black Rock- but- I am not saying that it is the case with any and all who come to the Island, just the 815.

7. The Black Horse
Kate is visited by a manifestation of a Black Horse.
Horses, not only synonymous with Power, have a singular Grace, often referred to as ’That Way Of Going’. For Kate, the manifestation of the Black Horse can be a representation of that Powerful Grace; a ‘living sign’ of forgiveness.
Was the first time Kate saw that horse Jacob’s doing as well?

3. The Black Rock
A few thoughts… some already presented I’m sure, but perhaps now maybe in a different light.
I have no idea what informs John Locke’s conclusion that not only was it a slave ship, but also that it had disembarked from Mozambique. It seems quite dubious that Jacob, in an attempt to prove Nemesis wrong about humanity, would purposefully draw people of such low and mean character as slavers. The unfortunate ones held captive by them do not, for various reasons, offer much promise either. What an awful choice!
I’m still holding out for the theory that it was a legal enterprise en route to Australia. A ship containing entrepreneurs (miners), adventurous colonists, various professions involving exploration (science), some old salts, and a few felons on their way to the penal complex there.
Now that seems like a group Jacob could work with. Maybe even the felons… especially if their incarceration was of a political nature. I think those stowed below in chains are going to turn out to be some very interesting people.
I really wonder if the Black Rock intended to come upon the Island in any way or was their journey ‘interrupted’ as well.
Also, I wonder if their was a mutiny involved… might explain the Ship’s Mate’s journal ending up in Mozambique.

9. Richard
Haven’t a clue. Literally. Mascara notwithstanding.
But I will say that the main reason why Jacob got killed is because Richard did not abide by the regulations he was entrusted with. He took ‘Locke’ to see Jacob when he should have resisted his insistence (which he has done before). We’ve seen him disregard the authority of Charles, Eloise, and Ben. Why should he be any different with the newbie? And then, most importantly, he let Ben go in with him which was a flagrant violation.
No ‘loophole’ here, regarding the opportunity for murder, the rules were blatantly broken.
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Old 06-21-09, 05:09 PM   #9
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Re: + The Weaver and The Reaver

Quote:
1. They Were Going to Die Anyway The idea that the passengers of flight 815 were waylaid to become unwitting and unwilling pawns in this game and therefore forced into this conflict (seemingly a violation of Jacob’s/Nemesis Rules regarding Humanity) may not be entirely accurate.
We know that Desmond’s delay in pressing the button brought the plane down upon the Island.
But the plane lost all communication and navigational equipment over an hour before the plane crash. Further, as the plane descended it broke in half. Apparently in disrepair, this plane was doomed before any EMP hit it.
I would say that being brought to the Island wasn’t an interruption of their lives, rather it was their death that was interrupted.
So, they pay back this borrowed time by engaging in the struggle of the party that gave it to them.
This may have also been the case with the Black Rock- but- I am not saying that it is the case with any and all who come to the Island, just the 815.
Or maybe they were supposed to die before the flight and Jacob saved them and then manipulated them onto 815?
Quite of few of our survivors barely missed death before the flight -- I wonder if Jacob interceded?

At any rate -- lost souls that should have died and moved on now get to play games on Smokie's Island. I like that.
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Old 06-22-09, 11:47 PM   #10
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Re: + The Weaver and The Reaver

fascinating thread JC. Looking forward to reading more.
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