Home | Television | Movies | Music | Other Media | Community | Sports | Arcade | Tech | Help
  MyMedia-Forum.com > Television > Other TV > LOST > LOST Theories > + (Revised) The Weaver and The Reaver

LOST Theories So you think you know some secrets of the island? Maybe you can explain everything. If it's original and you can back it up, we'd love to hear it.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-28-09, 12:31 PM   #21
Jane
Has to go back
Sees Walt
 
Jane's Avatar
Re: + The Weaver and The Reaver

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_C View Post
If he understands what the Dr. said, that 'Dave' is an alternate self (more or less), then even Hugo might come to the conclusion that this appearance of Dave is just an effort on his own part to 'wake himself up'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalvinHobbesLocke View Post
Something along the lines of achieving enlightenment and breaking the kharmic wheel?
Exactly! Dave wasn't trying to kill Hurley, he was trying to *save* Hurley. It's okay to die on the Island.


Quote:
Originally Posted by treesong View Post
Was it really progress? He failed to take responsibility for the deaths he caused. He denied that he had made a choice when killing the old priest, and further claimed that the whole sequence of choices that made up his life had been out of his hands.
He failed to take responsibility, and coupled with the remorse he really did feel (look at the horror on his face in the church) he would go back and do it differently, not come to the Island, and paradox the whole kitten caboodle. So Smoky does what Smoky has to. If Eko *had* confessed, he would have released those remorseful emotions and no longer been tempted to undo his past.
__________________
Jane is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-28-09, 01:04 PM   #22
treesong
Really?
Sees Walt
 
treesong's Avatar
 
Tournaments Won: 2

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Looking at my squishy hat
Posts: 5,733
Re: + The Weaver and The Reaver

Quote:
Originally Posted by jane_eire View Post
He failed to take responsibility, and coupled with the remorse he really did feel (look at the horror on his face in the church) he would go back and do it differently, not come to the Island, and paradox the whole kitten caboodle. So Smoky does what Smoky has to. If Eko *had* confessed, he would have released those remorseful emotions and no longer been tempted to undo his past.
Yes, I think that's the most logical conclusion.

It fits well with other uses of the energy we have seen. Older Desmond traveled back to the past, and tried to undo his trip to the Island, but was thwarted by Ms. Hawking. Instead, he found a forward-going way, and at the barrier he made sure that Penny would find him, so that they could build a future together. Older Jack also traveled back to the past and tried to undo his trip to the Island. While he travels physically, in essence this is the same as what Desmond did. We have yet to see how that pans out, of course.

Once we assume that Eko would tap into the power, it seems no mystery what he was going to do. All that is left is to compare the different ways in how altering the past is sometimes allowed, and sometimes prevented.
__________________
Have you tagged a thread today?

- .... .- -. -.- / -.-- --- ..- --..-- / -.. --- --. -- .- -.-.--
What do you see?



treesong: I'll put it under all my flaming posts
scotpgot: LMAO


Member of the League Against "scot's mom jokes."
treesong is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-28-09, 01:19 PM   #23
Jane
Has to go back
Sees Walt
 
Jane's Avatar
Re: + The Weaver and The Reaver

Quote:
Originally Posted by treesong View Post
Once we assume that Eko would tap into the power, it seems no mystery what he was going to do. All that is left is to compare the different ways in how altering the past is sometimes allowed, and sometimes prevented.
An alteration to the past that isn't much of an alteration (in particular, that isn't paradoxical) seems to be okay. Jack tries to undo his past (paradox) and so he is doomed to fail. Rather than undoing it, he'll discover he's taken ownership of it. He has become the cause of his own suffering.
__________________
Jane is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-28-09, 01:56 PM   #24
treesong
Really?
Sees Walt
 
treesong's Avatar
 
Tournaments Won: 2

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Looking at my squishy hat
Posts: 5,733
Re: + The Weaver and The Reaver

Quote:
Originally Posted by jane_eire View Post
An alteration to the past that isn't much of an alteration (in particular, that isn't paradoxical) seems to be okay. Jack tries to undo his past (paradox) and so he is doomed to fail. Rather than undoing it, he'll discover he's taken ownership of it. He has become the cause of his own suffering.
I agree on the paradox part. Ms. Hawking emphasized that Desmond had to "go back" to the Island. It seems unlikely that Eko the priest and Yemi the murderer would have ended up on the Island, &c. And quite frankly, it's the only thing that seems powerful enough to threaten an Island that can "choose who it chooses" and where the energy just picks people up to drop them in time periods where they are needed.

And yes, if Smokey guards against paradox, then we must conclude that a total "reset" will fail. Or at least, that Smokey has determined failure, and doesn't even see the need to investigate. Just as it knew Desmond would be back. Its absence in 1977 is conspicuous. (Although it may be possible that when the white light is directly involved, Smokey's watchful eye becomes unnecessary.)


About Jack I'm not so sure. Richard's remark that he saw them all die is reminiscent of Dave's attempt to --I agree-- save Hurley. And, depending on what Boone's vision quest exactly entailed, we have had a live and dead Shannon at the same time. Near paradoxes are allowed. Since it's not Jack, but Juliet who is at the heart of the Incident, I see possibilities where Jack will "wake up." All we'd need to make the Island experiences a bad dream for some, while avoiding paradox, is to have others sacrifice themselves, and carry out the actions that are needed to keep the timeline intact.
__________________
Have you tagged a thread today?

- .... .- -. -.- / -.-- --- ..- --..-- / -.. --- --. -- .- -.-.--
What do you see?



treesong: I'll put it under all my flaming posts
scotpgot: LMAO


Member of the League Against "scot's mom jokes."
treesong is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-28-09, 06:02 PM   #25
Jane
Has to go back
Sees Walt
 
Jane's Avatar
Re: + The Weaver and The Reaver

Quote:
Originally Posted by treesong View Post
...depending on what Boone's vision quest exactly entailed, we have had a live and dead Shannon at the same time. Near paradoxes are allowed.
Two Shannons! Smoky didn't like that at all. As soon as Shannon2 screamed, Smoky bellowed in response. Smoky knew there shouldn't have been two of her.
__________________
Jane is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 08-29-09, 12:44 AM   #26
treesong
Really?
Sees Walt
 
treesong's Avatar
 
Tournaments Won: 2

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Looking at my squishy hat
Posts: 5,733
Re: + The Weaver and The Reaver

Quote:
Originally Posted by jane_eire View Post
Two Shannons! Smoky didn't like that at all. As soon as Shannon2 screamed, Smoky bellowed in response. Smoky knew there shouldn't have been two of her.
Not two from the same time at the same time and place, anyway --Smokey seems unconcerned with time travel doppelgangers. She and Boone could hardly have walked hand in hand into the beach camp. Sayid might have gotten upset. She had to go, one way or another. Well, actually, one way: Boone had to give up his fantasy.

I think that ultimately the warning to Boone was that he couldn't tap into the power to get the girl, because either it would be a paradox directly (two versions), or the girl (one version) would also tap into the power to change her past, and avoid being on the Island altogether. The latter is strongly hinted at in the flashback. But other possibilities are equally unwelcome: if you wish yourself an imaginary girlfriend, and the imaginary girlfriend wishes you didn't exist, you've got yourself a problem.


If the visions were just some kind of holographic projection, a fake copy, puppeteered by some other entity, would there be a problem with the original body still lying around somewhere? I would say that if the essence of the real person isn't in there, then there is no problem at all.
__________________
Have you tagged a thread today?

- .... .- -. -.- / -.-- --- ..- --..-- / -.. --- --. -- .- -.-.--
What do you see?



treesong: I'll put it under all my flaming posts
scotpgot: LMAO


Member of the League Against "scot's mom jokes."
treesong is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-05-09, 07:02 AM   #27
J_C
Hypercreative
Talks Backwards
 
J_C's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In someone's dream
Posts: 4,113
Re: + The Weaver and The Reaver

(I will respond to tree and jane later, but first...)

An alternative idea regarding the loophole:

We have this: (bold mine)
Quote:
ACOB: Well, you found your loophole.

LOCKE: Indeed I did.

LOCKE: And you have no idea... what I've gone through... to be here.
I wonder about the pedestal room (the base of the statue), is there something special about that specific place?

1st thought: I know that a meaning for the name 'Jacob' is 'one who grasps (at the heel)' or a 'usurper'. Here we have Jacob, abiding in a place under the foot of an immense statue, in it's heel, as it were. Was this once the abode of Nemesis?
Did Jacob usurp Nemesis' position there, long ago?

Continuing... What does it mean to abide there?
Control of the Island? Perhaps they value it for some other reason, otherwise why live there? (It kinda has a hole in the roof).

2nd thought:This thing that looks like John Locke, what is it?
The body of John Locke we see spilled out onto the sand outside. What is this inside the pedestal room? A manifestation?

Observations... We saw Danielle's crew become seemingly altered after having gone into Smokie's lair. I'm going to call it being 'imprinted'; (mentally)- for lack of the proper term.

And... The manifestations have been shown to be solid, and at least 'expressive', if not entirely sentient.

Soooo...
Does the loophole merely have to do with Nemesis being able to enter into the pedestal room?
Perhaps either one is vulnerable once inside, so neither one dares to go in while the other is there, or for some other reason they both cannot be in there at the same time.
Is the 'Locke' inside the pedestal room a manifestation, imprinted with Nemesis (and Locke?), enabling Nemesis to be there... but not really?

Why con Ben to do the dirty work?
We've been given a clue that Nemesis has more dirty work in store... and now Ben is pretty much 'fully invested'.

Exactly as Ben did with Sayid.

(Don't think I have given up on the importance of the compass, in fact, more on that later)
__________________
A guy formerly known as johnyc.

Last edited by J_C; 09-12-09 at 01:23 PM.
J_C is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-05-09, 08:00 PM   #28
treesong
Really?
Sees Walt
 
treesong's Avatar
 
Tournaments Won: 2

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Looking at my squishy hat
Posts: 5,733
Re: + The Weaver and The Reaver

I'm going to think about that, but in the mean time I wanted to add this thought. The statue always made me think of a figurehead on a ship's bow. Especially now that we know the Island is always moving, it might be the closest point to the right opening in the barrier.

Other than that the word "figurehead" is interesting in relation to Jacob, is their any special meaning associated with the bow/prow of a ship?


Hmm. The Encyclopaedia Britannica relates figureheads to the ancient Egyptians:

Quote:
The custom of decorating a vessel probably began in ancient Egypt or India, where an eye was painted on either side of the prow, presumably in the belief that the eyes would help a vessel find its way safely over the water.
There's more, but for some reason I can't scroll down to read the whole article --I guess I'd have to pay to do that.
__________________
Have you tagged a thread today?

- .... .- -. -.- / -.-- --- ..- --..-- / -.. --- --. -- .- -.-.--
What do you see?



treesong: I'll put it under all my flaming posts
scotpgot: LMAO


Member of the League Against "scot's mom jokes."
treesong is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-06-09, 12:56 AM   #29
Joolz
Blew Up the Hatch
 
Joolz's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacred Meadows (a mythical place in Northern California)
Posts: 2,032
Re: + The Weaver and The Reaver

Quote:
Originally Posted by treesong View Post
There's more, but for some reason I can't scroll down to read the whole article --I guess I'd have to pay to do that.
That's odd. Here's the whole thing (and I didn't pay anything):
Quote:
figurehead
sculpture

ornamental symbol or figure formerly placed on some prominent part of a ship, usually at the bow. A figurehead could be a religious symbol, a national emblem, or a figure symbolizing the ship’s name.


The custom of decorating a vessel probably began in ancient Egypt or India, where an eye was painted on either side of the prow, presumably in the belief that the eyes would help a vessel find its way safely over the water. The custom was followed by the Chinese (who painted eyes on their river junks), the Phoenicians, the Greeks, and the Romans.

The ships of the ancient Egyptians, Phoenicians, Greeks, and early Romans were constructed with heavy vertical timbers at the bow and stern to which the side planking was attached. These stemposts and sternposts protruded well above the hull, and their prominent and semierect position and form created a focal point of interest and a shape obviously suited for decoration. As early as 1000 bc, the stem- and sternposts were carved and painted to distinguish one ship from another, and at least one class of vessel used an identifying symbol: a falcon or a falcon’s eye generally appeared on the bows of Egyptian funeral barges of the Nile River. Although the oculi were the most popular symbols used by early sailors, some figureheads were fashioned for the purpose of terrorizing less-civilized tribes. The Egyptians probably originated the practice of using religious symbols; other Mediterranean peoples extended this practice by using carvings and paintings of their principal deity to identify the vessel with its city-state. The Carthaginians, for example, often used a carving of Amon, the Athenians a statue of Athena. When the prow was developed as a weapon for ramming and piercing an enemy vessel, the stem lost its prominence and the so-called ram was decorated instead. One Athenian vessel of about 500 bc had the entire ram carved in the shape of a boar’s head. The use of the prow as a battering ram necessarily lowered the prominent bow features of the ship, and so greater emphasis was instead placed on decorating the stern. This trend was carried to an extreme by the Romans at the height of their naval power, when their ships were distinguished by a very high sternpost carved to sweep up and around in graceful curves terminating, for example, in the gilded head of a swan.

Along the more blustery northwest coast of Europe, skilled sailors such as the Vikings continued to build their ships with high bows and a projecting stem. The figurehead of the Oseberg ship of about ad 800 is a menacing dragon with head upreared. The ships of William I the Conqueror in the Bayeux Tapestry are similar to those of his Norse ancestors, but in general the decorative symbols reflect the spread of the Christian church.

In the 13th and 14th centuries, a boarding platform was attached forward and projected out over the stem. With this type of construction, the figurehead practically disappeared. Gradually the boarding platform was moved back until it formed the forecastle; when the beakhead was added in the 16th century, it became the natural place for a figurehead. Gradually the beakhead was reduced in size and moved back under the bowsprit until just the figurehead remained. During this period, the fashions in figureheads varied from carvings of saints to national emblems, such as the lion and the unicorn, to a simple scroll and a billethead, and finally to a carved representation of the person for whom the vessel was named or of a female relative. Historically, figureheads have varied in size from 18 inches (45 cm) for small heads and busts to 8 or 9 feet (2.4 or 2.7 m) for full-length figures. They remained popular until after World War I, when they were discontinued on most ships.
__________________

Joolz is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 09-06-09, 11:23 AM   #30
treesong
Really?
Sees Walt
 
treesong's Avatar
 
Tournaments Won: 2

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Looking at my squishy hat
Posts: 5,733
Re: + The Weaver and The Reaver

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joolz View Post
That's odd. Here's the whole thing (and I didn't pay anything):
It must be my browser, then. Anyway, thank you.
__________________
Have you tagged a thread today?

- .... .- -. -.- / -.-- --- ..- --..-- / -.. --- --. -- .- -.-.--
What do you see?



treesong: I'll put it under all my flaming posts
scotpgot: LMAO


Member of the League Against "scot's mom jokes."
treesong is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply
« MyMedia-Forum.com > Television > Other TV > LOST > LOST Theories »


Bookmarks

Tags
t+s/analogy, t+s/non-human entities, t+s/people/island/jacob, t+s/philosophy

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


» Latest Posts: All Discussion Forums
Title, Username, & Date Last Post Replies Forum
What's New/The World According to Vito ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
catnap
Today 12:31 AM
by catnap
4,676 Lostaways! :)
MasterChef ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
vonnegut
Today 12:27 AM
by Zaphod of Whiskers
154 Featured TV General
Feud:Bette and Joan - FX Sunday ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
Mr. Bill
Today 12:25 AM
by Peggy Sawyer
53 Featured TV General
NFL Thread Pt. II ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
TheBigCat
Today 12:08 AM
by Peggy Sawyer
6,937 Sports Discussion
Fargo - FX Wednesday ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
vincentstuntdbl#23
Today 12:06 AM
by nsguy
214 Featured TV General
John Locke sometimes naive and stupid
topcat
Yesterday 11:09 PM
by Mr Mo
7 General Discussion
Blindspot - NBC Wednesday ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
sandi
Yesterday 10:59 PM
by sandi
269 Featured TV General
What are you reading? ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
feigenbaum
Yesterday 10:57 PM
by Rocky Raccoon
4,046 Literature General Discussion
The Handmaid's Tale - HULU Wednesday
sandi
Yesterday 09:03 PM
by Zaphod of Whiskers
7 Featured TV General
Doctor Who Series 10 Fantasy League ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
Jane
Yesterday 07:14 PM
by MinaKitty
61 Doctor Who
Survivor 34: Game Changers ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
WDGovernor
Yesterday 06:32 PM
by Mattie
256 Survivor
The MOST Annoying Character on LOST is ( 1 2)
topcat
Yesterday 02:34 PM
by ollie
13 General Discussion
» Online Users: 207
3 members and 204 guests
nsguy, Tawaret, Zaphod of Whiskers
Most users ever online was 26,316, 05-12-14 at 10:02 AM.
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.0

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:31 AM.

Graphic Design by Crazy Creative
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.