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LOST Theories So you think you know some secrets of the island? Maybe you can explain everything. If it's original and you can back it up, we'd love to hear it.

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Old 02-29-16, 05:01 AM   #1
nhnsn
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Was Hurley really crazy? If not, how do you explain this?(Spoilers of course)

In "The Beginning of the End"(Episode 1 of the fourth season), we see Charlie visiting Hurley in the Mental Institute. Charlie seems to be pretty aware of his death, and tells Hurley he must come back to the island. Nevertheless, in season 6, we see how all of the survivors haven't realised they're dead, and progressively discover it...the question is:How did Charlie visit Hurley, when Hurley was still alive, if he just realized he was dead when Hurley was dead too?
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Old 02-29-16, 06:18 AM   #2
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Re: Was Hurley really crazy? If not, how do you explain this?(Spoilers of course)

Hello nhnsn, Welcome to the board!

I think there might be a few members who can answer this better than me. But, I will give it a stab. I don't think they all realized at the same time. I believe they were all going through their alternate lives several times until they finally "realized" that they needed to move on though the church. In a sense, they were all in purgatory awaiting entry into the afterlife.
That is just my take.
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Old 02-29-16, 08:21 AM   #3
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Re: Was Hurley really crazy? If not, how do you explain this?(Spoilers of course)

Well apart from Hurley actually being crazy the explanations I can come up with are:

The Island - the island manifested a 'phantom' of Charlie. You can see the idea of 'ghosts' having multiple aspects of self, part of which will always remain on the island either as an imprint or an actual remainder of it's deceased forever haunting it or until ready to move on. Even if Charlies actual soul gets to move on later, the island might still call upon his memory from time to time.

It was the black smoke - probably not considering that dude's off island limitations and the 'intention' of the visitation.

Time simply doesn't matter in the afterlife. Charlie's ghost might still have relevance in the past even after his 'ascendance' in the purgatory scenario. Though preferably one likes the idea off that part being an end and a new beginning sole in regards to their time on the island, which is why it existed especially for the castaways and other islanders. Charlie's existence here doesn't necessarily mean he didn't do stuff as a more island ghost in the real world.

Just a note to explain what it was:
That particular pocket of purgatory might sole be the island's way of giving a sense of happiness to those who helped it. Perhaps the bomb allowed it some means to do this and in that, in regards to that universe, in away the island sacrificed itself to the bottom of the sea, in order to give them that happiness just as the characters did in the real world for it.

Just some extra thoughts. Welcome to the board.
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Old 03-06-16, 12:22 AM   #4
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Re: Was Hurley really crazy? If not, how do you explain this?(Spoilers of course)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaystao View Post
Time simply doesn't matter in the afterlife. Charlie's ghost might still have relevance in the past even after his 'ascendance' in the purgatory scenario.
That is basically my stance on the subject. IMO when our Losties were all engulfed by the light at the end of the last episode, what happened after that was they became "ghosts" no longer enslaved by time and space. So the Charlie we see visiting Hurley, is Charlie after he experienced the Flashsideways and "moved on" into the light.
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Old 03-06-16, 09:23 PM   #5
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Re: Was Hurley really crazy? If not, how do you explain this?(Spoilers of course)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdraino View Post
That is basically my stance on the subject. IMO when our Losties were all engulfed by the light at the end of the last episode, what happened after that was they became "ghosts" no longer enslaved by time and space. So the Charlie we see visiting Hurley, is Charlie after he experienced the Flashsideways and "moved on" into the light.
When ghost Charlie visited Hurley, Hurley was still alive.

Hurley hadn't died yet.

But you're saying this same ghost Charlie, visiting the same alive Hurley, was after Hurley had died cos Charlie & Hurley went into the light together, after they were both dead and in the same Flashsideways.

So, how does that work??
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Old 03-07-16, 03:59 AM   #6
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Re: Was Hurley really crazy? If not, how do you explain this?(Spoilers of course)

Quote:
The Island - the island manifested a 'phantom' of Charlie. You can see the idea of 'ghosts' having multiple aspects of self, part of which will always remain on the island either as an imprint or an actual remainder of it's deceased, forever haunting it or until ready to move on. Even if Charlies actual soul gets to move on later, the island might still call upon his memory from time to time.
I'm a fav of this one actually, though this could still be true...

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Time simply doesn't matter in the afterlife.
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Old 03-07-16, 02:13 PM   #7
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Re: Was Hurley really crazy? If not, how do you explain this?(Spoilers of course)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie View Post
But you're saying this same ghost Charlie, visiting the same alive Hurley, was after Hurley had died cos Charlie & Hurley went into the light together, after they were both dead and in the same Flashsideways.

So, how does that work??
It doesn't. Hurley was still alive when ghost Charlie and the other dead 815s were waiting for their friends in the FS. The problem of course is that none of the FS characters knew they were dead until they were awakened in S6. Like a lot of S4, ghost Charlie doesn't line up with the eventual mythology - MiB rules, the Cabin, the sentient Island, etc. - but even when you apply retroactive continuity you can't classify S4 ghost Charlie as having "moved on" since Hurley was still alive.
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Old 03-07-16, 04:40 PM   #8
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Re: Was Hurley really crazy? If not, how do you explain this?(Spoilers of course)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie View Post
When ghost Charlie visited Hurley, Hurley was still alive.
Right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie View Post
Hurley hadn't died yet.
Yep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie View Post
But you're saying this same ghost Charlie, visiting the same alive Hurley, was after Hurley had died cos Charlie & Hurley went into the light together, after they were both dead and in the same Flashsideways.
No. I'm basically saying that Dead-But-Also-Here Charlie is a time traveling ghost. He died, Hurley died, they had experiences in the Flash Sideways, they "moved on" into the light, at which point Charlie became a "ghost," went back in time, and visited Hurley back when Hurley was still alive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie View Post
So, how does that work??
Lost is replete with examples of how it was necessary for our various characters to time travel around and interact with themselves, in order for them to get to where they ultimately got. IMO this is simply another example of that.
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Old 03-08-16, 08:20 AM   #9
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Re: Was Hurley really crazy? If not, how do you explain this?(Spoilers of course)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdraino View Post
Lost is replete with examples of how it was necessary for our various characters to time travel around and interact with themselves, in order for them to get to where they ultimately got. IMO this is simply another example of that.
Yeah, but "where they ultimately got" was the FS.

And LOST is not replete with examples of characters travelling from the FS back in time as ghosts to help other losties.

It doesn't happen once.
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Old 03-08-16, 08:59 AM   #10
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Re: Was Hurley really crazy? If not, how do you explain this?(Spoilers of course)

Quote:
It doesn't. Hurley was still alive when ghost Charlie and the other dead 815s were waiting for their friends in the FS. The problem of course is that none of the FS characters knew they were dead until they were awakened in S6. Like a lot of S4, ghost Charlie doesn't line up with the eventual mythology - MiB rules, the Cabin, the sentient Island, etc. - but even when you apply retroactive continuity you can't classify S4 ghost Charlie as having "moved on" since Hurley was still alive.
I was wondering when you were going to weigh in on this Bob and I bow before your extensive theorizing. Once again I prefer my summery of Charlie in S4 as being an island manifestation using the Charlie 'memory'. But I admit it seems more satisfying to think of Charlie as a Ghost within the complete context of LOST. You could say that when Charlie 'died' in the S6 purgatory maybe he had a few adventures as a free formed entity with complete memories, in a quasi time traveling sort of way. But I prefer to simply say that the purgatory 'pocket' Universe was complete in itself, and whatever the ghosts of Christmas past were getting up to before they woke up in personal happiness world is up to our imaginations. We'll can only theorize... but it does make sense in the sense that we'll never really know. .... and in saying that you could see the flash at the end as a point where the characters become either/and apart of the island or/and moving on to the next stage (time travel being already introduced into the Island mechanics - think of it as a Desmond phenomena on an ISLAND level, with manifestations being a sort of time manipulating power using it's dead as memory like phantasms (in the same way that Black smoke used their 'physical' images and likeness)... but in a more meaningful personal sense. ... or maybe it's a bit like highlander two when Sean Connery is 'called' back for no given reason except to progress the plot, only to die again and then have the whole thing erased in the third movie entirely like it never happened lol.
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