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Old 08-11-17, 05:02 AM   #611
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Re: Warty's Sandman FR - Worlds' End

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Originally Posted by Mr Mo View Post
The rest of World's End is....

Not trying to be smart here, but when I looked at the title of this volume I noted that it was Worlds' end, not World's end. I think the apostrophe after the "s" is important to signify this place belongs at the nexus of several different realms.

Hence "Worlds' end" and not "World's end".

Although in terms of your comment it matters little, and I am not trying to call out a mistake in punctuation. I only mention it at all because the distinction is something I noticed right away.




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Old 08-11-17, 05:05 AM   #612
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Re: Warty's Sandman FR - Worlds' End

Actually that's a critical distinction and well-spotted. No offense taken at all.
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Old 08-11-17, 09:20 PM   #613
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Re: Warty's Sandman FR - Worlds' End

Oh, good, I got back here before you got to Golden Boy, because a little nonspoilery background might be helpful, Warty. Prez (and Boss Smiley, including his weird head) were created by one of Gaiman’s heroes, Joe Simon. But Gaiman’s version isn’t an attempt to Make Comics Relevant, it’s to invent another history for America. Gaiman probably figured that DC would sooner or later reboot Prez after Gaiman was finished with him, and they did. Right before this (as in, “this world’s”) most recent American presidential election, we got several issues of Beth Ross, aka Corndog Girl, internet meme, as the latest teenage president. Also, Golden Boy has a number of references to Watchmen, by another Gaiman hero, Alan Moore, and Dave Gibbons. And that’s also a comic featuring an alternative history of America, with Richard Nixon is his third or fourth term as president. So, not only are there multiple/alternative American histories, there are multiple/alternative Prez stories.

I’d agree that Cluracan’s tale isn’t much fun, considering he’s such a (supposed) swashbuckler, but there are a couple of points to keep in mind. One is that it reminds us not to trust a tale if we don’t trust the teller. (More on that in a bit.) And Morpheus popping in to save someone in a situation similar to one he found himself in at the beginning of the series is referenced in an interesting way in a future volume, so keep it in mind even if the story isn’t exactly memorable. For me, the most important thing is what it says about Morpheus’ relationship with Nuala (who tells her brother when he’s in the dungeon something like, “people need other people”) as well as, obviously, showing that he’s changed.

So, the tale and its teller. That’s a big part of any collection of stories bookended like this one is, with folks swapping stories that the listeners can’t fact-check. Gaiman led us into it with the very end of Brief Lives, when Morpheus is alone and depressed and thinking (that is, telling us) about how he created the Gates of Horn and Ivory (gates previously seen in Sandman in Issue 1 or 2 and referred to by Augustus, and in Greek myth created to stop Apollo from meddling in human, ahem, dreams.) Morpheus concludes the story by telling us that the truth about this happening has never been told on this (our, I assume) world. Not “told before” but “never.” So, is he (and he’s the narrator here) telling us a dream that goes through the Gate of Horn, or the Gate of Ivory? Even a teller we trust has a point of view, a bias.

Oh, there's an interview with Jill Thompson (in Hanging with the Dream King, a great book) when she's asked if Gaiman sometimes embroiders actual events when he's just talking. She totally cracks up.

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Old 08-12-17, 12:02 AM   #614
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Re: Warty's Sandman FR - Worlds' End

Thank you for all that, Pi-o-my, i actually lived in ignorance of almost all of that.

I will add that Alan Moore is basically the biggest hero for anybody who ever dreamed that "comic books" could be more than Archie and Veronica or Batman and Robin, etc. Sandman is littered with Moore's detritus... Matthew, Cain & Abel, Merv, Eve... those are just the ones i know of, and i only read roughly half of Moore's Swamp Thing issues. Incidentally, those were the first comics published by a major distributor to run without the "Comic Code Seal of Approval." Comics bearing the seal had been censored to be considered acceptable for children. Moore refused to bend, and DC backed him, and the public bought the shit up. Watchmen followed not long after, and soon DC launched a line, Vertigo, specifically for serial graphic stories not intended for children.
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Here's a link for general help info on finding amazon goodies through the astore.: http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=85061e

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Old 08-12-17, 03:02 AM   #615
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Re: Warty's Sandman FR - Worlds' End

Thanks for the info Pi-o-my. I was unaware of every bit of that, being I am comic ignorant.


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Old 08-12-17, 04:55 AM   #616
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Re: Warty's Sandman FR - Worlds' End

Worlds' End

You can call me Jim.

I just realized that part of the problem is that these stories are being told by gingers. You can't trust gingers.. like writers they lie and decieve!

This might be okay.. The last panels of the opening page almost had a Conrad/Narcissus feel, and the next panel mentioned Fiddler's Green... a story with origins at sea. It's nice seeing the travelers becoming aware of not only different worlds, but different times. The record is playing but the individual needles are all over the place on it.

So our story teller sets out to sea (like Conrad, smh), and ends up on the Sea Witch. A ship of the same name was a vessel of some renown in real-life. The ship is on a journey from Bombay to England, much like the Narcissus. I'm not making it up that I got the Conrad feel before I read any of this.. again, smh.

The passenger is Hob... took me a moment..

Peforce... there is that word again. An unusual word that was used way often by the annoying faerie narrator of the last story.

The stowaway begins to tell a tale and all of a sudden we have a story within a story. I'm pretty sure I mentioned that theme weeks ago. In his story a holy man shows up.. in a scene with flowers I've seen in the greater narrative before, he comes bearing fruit from the tree of life. I am reminded of the fruit Eve picked and gave to Adam.

It seems however this fruit bears immortality, not knowledge of both good and evil, and instead of man receiving the gift from woman, this time it is the other way around.

The fruit is passed around from person to person like a story, until it makes its way back to the king... its journey had a profound result.

... and Holy **** it's a sea monster.. the Leviathan.. I didn't see that coming when I turned the page.

Next we learn why sailors no longer rush to shore to share their fantastic tales.. Hob Gadling and the stowaway are kin of a sort, and Jim is more likely Jenny. Is what Hob and the stowaway had in common the fact they are immortals?... Their decision to not die.

This is the strongest story so far. It has tied together many familiar themes and a character I don't despise. Stories within.. Hob.. Identity..

Nice bounce-back.


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Old 08-12-17, 05:10 AM   #617
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Re: Warty's Sandman FR - Worlds' End

It gets better. Worlds' End isn't the best, but its charms will not be lost on you, and in spite of (or possibly even partially because of) Cluracan's inanity, i think you will find it (Worldfs' End) among the better half of NG's Sandman story arcs. If you should happen to re-read the series someday, you may find that Cluracan's tale is outrageously hilarious.

ETA: I really don't want to comment in detail on this volume, but i will not hold back on the last two volumes.
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Spoiler: notes
gift cards make great gifts both for shoppers who are lazy and/or have a lot of gifts to buy. They're also a shrewd choice if there are individuals in your life for whom it is difficult to shop. When bought through the astore, they also help support this site, which isn't self-sufficient and doesn't hold fund-raisers or any of that other crap.

Please consider doing at least some of your holiday shopping through our astore this year.
Link: http://losttv-forum.com/forum/index.php?pageid=astore0

Here's a link for general help info on finding amazon goodies through the astore.: http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=85061e

As the old woman said when she peed in the sea, "Every little bit helps."

Last edited by Mr Mo; 08-12-17 at 05:12 AM.
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Old 08-12-17, 06:14 AM   #618
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Re: Warty's Sandman FR - Worlds' End

I'm waiting for Vol 9.
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Old 08-15-17, 05:56 AM   #619
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Re: Warty's Sandman FR - Worlds' End

I had a crisis.. a crisis of continuation of commentary.

I got over it.

Worlds' End - The Prez

The power of names... how true. What names mean went into my choices, and let's be honest; if your mom names you Jeeves, you're going to be a butler.

Enter Boss Smiley.. yeah, I didn't need nightmare free sleep tonight.

Prez wants to make a difference, but oh how Naive.. no one can make a difference. It's a GD machine.. the power is behind the curtain.. parties are two sides of the same coin pitting half the nation against the other over emotional issues that will amount to nothing of significance in the end while no one notices the really bad things they are both engaged in..

but I digress...

I didn't really stop to make any more comments other than now to note that Boss Smiley was the man behind the curtain.. the personification of the deep state... the shadow groups that rule the world.

Anyone can grow up to be Prez in America.. often your fate lies just in a name. A myth we believe because of story. Prez is the
embodiment of what we wish our President was, and it was appropriate he replaced Nixon.. the EMBODIMENT of all the bad things we don't want our Prez to be.

It's all sort of a myth people... Nixon wasn't as bad as people make out.. Reagan is viewed as a great man by many because of who he was.. an idealist.. a cowboy (I'm one myself).. the guy who had this vision of American greatness.

The truth is that the world is complex.. we can be led by a dream.. we can be doomed by a myth. We see a blue sky when in fact it is quite gray. We elect a president because of how they look on a TV screen. We crush a legacy because of how the story is portrayed by the media.

So many things defined by story. Very smart people see the same things and come to vastly different conclusions... all self righteous in their assertion they are correct.
We all seek a legend of sorts.. what fits our collective American narrative. He is with his high school sweetheart, he's the all American boy.... he is everything we want, and he is quite fictitious.

Now if you'll excuse me.. I'm off to a nightmare that has a smile on its face


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Old 08-15-17, 06:10 AM   #620
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Re: Warty's Sandman FR - Worlds' End

Damn, reading that post, maybe I need to re-read that chapter.
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