Home | Television | Movies | Music | Other Media | Community | Sports | Arcade | Tech | Help
  MyMedia-Forum.com > Television > Featured TV > Game of Thrones > LTV Tourney - Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane (Final Four)

View Poll Results: Who is the Greatest Warrior?
Oberyn Martell, poisoned spear, lightly armored 8 61.54%
Gregor Clegane, sword, plate/mail 5 38.46%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-24-17, 05:15 PM   #21
Warthawg1
The American Idle
Cons the Conman
 
Warthawg1's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Presumed Dead
Posts: 27,712
Send a message via ICQ to Warthawg1 Send a message via AIM to Warthawg1 Send a message via MSN to Warthawg1 Send a message via Yahoo to Warthawg1
Re: LTV Tourney - Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane (Final Four)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Side Of The Moon View Post
As well as judging Oberyn for exercising his demons about a long standing personal grievance. I don't think that counts at all as Oberyn at his best.
Yes.. within the narrative of the story it most certainly does. At his VERY BEST within the time frame and story we know, Oberyn was carrying this seething desire for revenge. (and GRRM has stated on numerous occasions that is part of what he wants to portray in his story... how revenge as a motive can get you killed)

Plus the other inconvenient fact the Mountain detractors have chosen to completely ignore is that he disarmed Oberyn during their fight; breaking his staff and leaving him weaponless.
__________________

I walk across the dreaming sands, under the pale moon...

through the dreams of countries and cities, past dreams of places long gone, and times beyond recall.
Warthawg1 is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-24-17, 05:36 PM   #22
Dark Side Of The Moon
Pushes the Button
 
Dark Side Of The Moon's Avatar
Re: LTV Tourney - Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane (Final Four)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warthawg1 View Post
Plus the other inconvenient fact the Mountain detractors have chosen to completely ignore is that he disarmed Oberyn during their fight; breaking his staff and leaving him weaponless.
And he was quite well prepared for that, which is also part of the narrative. Are you suggesting we should discount that part of the narrative but everything else remains the same? Seems like that's wanting it both ways.

You cannot have it both ways though. The fairest way to break this down is to make the setting completely neutral, doing battle as they normally would, as if the met on the plains somewhere.

When you start throwing in all the distractions of that particular setting of that particular fight, of course it works against the Red Viper. If you're using that very specific setting as the only setting possible for this fight to occur, then it probably goes down the same way 9 out of 10 times.

I don't think that a setting which plays to the character's weakness is a fair way to make this assessment. There are many settings, considering the Mountain's stats, that would make his demise inevitable. How about we use some of those settings instead? A thick forest, the dunes of Dorne, and so on. That wouldn't really make for a fair assessment of who the greater warrior is either.

So, imho, in a more neutral locale, with the removal of the influence of the entire Lannister clan steadfastly peering down on him, is the fairest way to decide who the better man is. In doing so I see
this fight going a very different direction. Oberyn wins.

Last edited by Dark Side Of The Moon; 05-24-17 at 05:59 PM.
Dark Side Of The Moon is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-24-17, 06:02 PM   #23
Ness
Tudel Agitaxatel
Sees Walt
 
Ness's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 6,492
Re: LTV Tourney - Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane (Final Four)

Gregor himself is the factor that distracts Oberyn. Gregor is the one who actually killed oberyns sister and so any fight between them would be one in which oberyns is seeking vengeance. This would lead to the mistakes he made every time.

Also this idea that being the last man standing doesn't equal winning is asinine.
Ness is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-24-17, 06:20 PM   #24
Dark Side Of The Moon
Pushes the Button
 
Dark Side Of The Moon's Avatar
Re: LTV Tourney - Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane (Final Four)

Nope. Tywin was a much bigger target. Oberyn understood that The Mountain was just a minion. So while he did want to kill the Mountain, his true rage was focused on Tywin.

[Oberyn] and his brother Doran worked in secret for years planning on ... destroying House Lannister.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Oberyn_Martell

Tywin had long been his main target.
Dark Side Of The Moon is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-24-17, 07:06 PM   #25
Dark Side Of The Moon
Pushes the Button
 
Dark Side Of The Moon's Avatar
Re: LTV Tourney - Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane (Final Four)

Let me sum this up with what I think would happen were this match held with no Lannisters present to taunt. I believe Oberyn wouldn't ask the brute a single question. Instead, Oberyn would quickly dispatch the Mountain so he could return his head in a box to the Lannisters, which would have been his goal throughout. He wouldn't bother pontificating to one he views as a dimwitted barbarian. Everything he did inside the arena, he did for show, for the Lannisters, not for Gregor.

Last edited by Dark Side Of The Moon; 05-24-17 at 07:09 PM.
Dark Side Of The Moon is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-24-17, 09:02 PM   #26
Warthawg1
The American Idle
Cons the Conman
 
Warthawg1's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Presumed Dead
Posts: 27,712
Send a message via ICQ to Warthawg1 Send a message via AIM to Warthawg1 Send a message via MSN to Warthawg1 Send a message via Yahoo to Warthawg1
Re: LTV Tourney - Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane (Final Four)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Side Of The Moon View Post
Indeed, and we are most certainly allowed use the narrative of the story as our evidence. However, this is a contest to determine who the greatest warrior is, which is a contest that doesn't actually fall within the narrative of the story. Therefore we cannot determine where the fight takes place, the weather, who is there watching, etc... Those details must remain neutral.
Yes those details must remain neutral... as in it isn't a trial by combat where Oberyn has a squire to hand him another weapon when his is broken in half.

What however isn't neutral is the characters that are fighting and their history.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Side Of The Moon View Post
Oberyn and his brother for years had been planning their revenge against the Lannister family. Namely papa, who clearly Oberyn believes gave the order for the Mountain to commit the offending atrocity.

Should daddy Lan be present to distract Oberyn from his foe, then in every scenario the outcome would not be favorabe for the Red Viper. Without the presence of Tywin, Oberyn's focus stays directly on the Mountain and he wins every time. So must we use in our tourney scenario that Tywin is going to be there to distract Oberyn with whom the Mountain is clearly outmatched?

Me thinks not. Tywin should not be the determining factor of who the greatest GOT warrior is.
What I have put in bold is pure conjecture without one shred of evidence. You are making that assumption because it fits the narrative you need to
fit the result you have chosen. That is perfectly fine, but it isn't based on
any facts.

The fact we know is that Oberyn could have just killed Tywin, but he needed
to wring that confession out of The Mountain and in the ASOIAF and GOT universe, that aspect of the relationship between the two characters.

Again though in this debate, one key fact continues to be ignored by those choosing Oberyn. That fact being that Gregor Clegane disarmed him and broke his spear in half. I guess the details around the fight that remain neutral only remain that way up until the point that Oberyn has to have a squire present to toss him a second weapon after his was destroyed.
__________________

I walk across the dreaming sands, under the pale moon...

through the dreams of countries and cities, past dreams of places long gone, and times beyond recall.
Warthawg1 is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-24-17, 09:58 PM   #27
J_C
Hypercreative
Talks Backwards
 
J_C's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In someone's dream
Posts: 4,662
Re: LTV Tourney - Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane (Final Four)

After the battle, a drama broke out. Gregor lost the battle, Oberyn lost the drama.

Gregor died of the battle, and unless your an adherent to the Charlie Sheen version of #winning, there is no Gregor Clegane to go on to a "final round".
__________________
A guy formerly known as johnyc.

J_C is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-26-17, 04:25 AM   #28
Mr Mo
Prodigal Adept
Squishes the Frog
 
Mr Mo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: The restaurant at the end of the universe
Posts: 24,424
Re: LTV Tourney - Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane (Final Four)

Oberyn is definitely final four material, but we actually saw who won this fight.

Poor job, my-media. Poor job.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maturin View Post
I've always appreciated your restraint, Mo
Quote:
Originally Posted by vonnegut View Post
Mo, I you
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee View Post
I am not allowed to rob a liquor store anymore because I met my own personal Jesus.
Spoiler: notes
gift cards make great gifts both for shoppers who are lazy and/or have a lot of gifts to buy. They're also a shrewd choice if there are individuals in your life for whom it is difficult to shop. When bought through the astore, they also help support this site, which isn't self-sufficient and doesn't hold fund-raisers or any of that other crap.

Please consider doing at least some of your holiday shopping through our astore this year.
Link: http://losttv-forum.com/forum/index.php?pageid=astore0

Here's a link for general help info on finding amazon goodies through the astore.: http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=85061e

As the old woman said when she peed in the sea, "Every little bit helps."
Mr Mo is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-26-17, 12:36 PM   #29
vonnegut
Answer him cracker
Sees Jacob
 
vonnegut's Avatar
Re: LTV Tourney - Oberyn Martell vs. Gregor Clegane (Final Four)

will make the final match-up poll when I have a minute
__________________







vonnegut is online now   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply
« MyMedia-Forum.com > Television > Featured TV > Game of Thrones »


Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


» Latest Posts: All Discussion Forums
Title, Username, & Date Last Post Replies Forum
Rate The Last Movie You Watched ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
Scott
Today 08:51 PM
by Pi-o-my
3,712 Movies General Discussion
Mr. Bill's Re-watch of Breaking Bad... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
Mr. Bill
Today 08:46 PM
by Pi-o-my
106 Featured TV General
[Link] 10 Things George R.R. Martin Is... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
FrodoFraggins
Today 06:08 PM
by FrodoFraggins
36 A Song of Ice and Fire
What's New/The hills are alive... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
catnap
Today 05:57 PM
by Mr. Bill
671 Lostaways! :)
The Alienist on TNT
Lawboy
Today 05:02 PM
by Lawboy
8 Featured TV General
Winter Olympics 2018
Mr. Bill
Today 12:55 PM
by nsguy
2 Sports Discussion
What are you reading? ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
feigenbaum
Today 04:23 AM
by vonnegut
4,293 Literature General Discussion
> 7
Mr Mo
Today 03:07 AM
by FrodoFraggins
3 Music General Discussion
» Online Users: 222
2 members and 220 guests
Lawboy, vonnegut
Most users ever online was 26,316, 05-12-14 at 11:02 AM.
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.0

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:31 PM.

Graphic Design by Crazy Creative
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.