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Old 07-06-17, 02:42 AM   #1
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Game of Thrones : Theory & Endgame

It has been announced that HBO is planning on developing spin-offs for Game of Thrones. However, I think "spin-offs" is the wrong term. More like "expansion" of George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire.
It has also been announced that "Robert's Rebellion" will not be considered as possibility, in light of the fact that most of the important aspects of that subject will be dramatized in Game of Thrones.
In the show the idea has been teased that there is something to be discovered “west of Westeros”, across the Sunset Sea. I think that there is a continent, perhaps unconnected to the known geography of the earth. Speaking of which, let’s do some analysis. First is a map of the known world according to The Lands of Ice and Fire (LoIaF), which covers about 8,500 miles east to west, and 5,800 miles north to south, equaling approximately 49,300,000 square miles:

Spoiler: From "The Land of Ice and Fire". (Size)


I would say the following, which have been suggested by the fandom-at-large, probably won't be considered:
Blackfyre Rebellions
Aegon's Conquest
The Dance of the Dragons (Targ civil war)
Mainly because the ending is already known, and secondly the writers would rather not put up with the constant criticism of "readers".
So there are other histories, and other lands that stories can be derived from.
Below is our present earth, with an inset map indicating the area that would be covered by the LoIaF map. Here is an idea of how much more of GRRM's world could be discovered:

Spoiler: World Map comparison



“Flat” maps have great distortion at the poles, so below is another map that gives a better “physical” representation and comparison. However, I cannot determine where the equator might be on the LoIaF map (if it would be on there at all). I therefore lined up the area according to climate, while at the same time placing Westeros so that The North is near Scotland and Dorne is near Spain/Portugal.

Spoiler: Better illustration of "area"


GRRM has said, referring to his world, that “It’s Earth, just not our Earth” and that it is the “same size, maybe a little bigger.” Therefore, as indicated by the map, we are only seeing a little under 25% of his world.
There is still over 75% of his world to be seen!

If the Long Night lasted for decades, did the other side of the world experience a "Long Day"? Drying up streams and lakes, burning up the vegetation and generally making it unlivable? I would think so, but it has had a few thousand years to recover, it may not all be desert. It is also interesting to consider that if it has been summer for a decade in the LoIaF hemisphere, then it would have been winter for a decade in the lower hemisphere. Sucks to be them, I guess.
Has that assisted the Walkers in some way?

I bring this up mainly to emphasize the breadth of this world, and the great possibilities there are for "expansion" or "spin-offs"... but also the importance of the odd seasons, Which I plan on talking about next in this "blog" thread.
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Old 07-13-17, 07:20 AM   #2
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Re: A World of Ice and Fire: The Seasons

Those crazy uneven seasons. When asked about them, GRRM attributes the uneven seasons to "a little magic". It is a fantasy world after all, so everyone just accepts that answer and the questioning goes on to other subjects.

Whoa, hold on. What kind of magic controls a whole planet?

I find it useful to remember that GRRM is foremost a science fiction writer, and that influences his stories. One of my favorite genres is “Post-Apocalyptic” fiction. It is interesting to see how the knowledge that a society had before the apocalyptic event becomes convoluted or even lost.

I think this is the case in the world of Game of Thrones; the Long Night was an apocalyptic event, and the knowledge that was lost includes a clear understanding of what even happened back then.
There is some evidence in the show suggesting that the seasons long ago were regular, This scene in particular:



Now doesn’t this seem familiar? The very thing that we see in the intro to Game of Thrones every episode in every season now looms gloriously in front of Samwell Tarly at the Citadel
This is called an “armillary sphere”. It is NOT a globe. It is in fact a celestial sphere, with the World (or Sun) at the center, and depicts aspects of the heavens surrounding it.

And there are these questions:
Without regular seasons, why would their “year” contain 12 months?
What significance would the planet revolving around the sun have?
An important element of an armillary sphere is a ring that is calibrated to the seasons. You can only do that if they are regular. What use is there for a calculation device that doesn’t work?



So, were the seasons regular before the Long Night?
What caused The Long Night? Was it Magic? Did something happen on an astronomical level that caused it, and continues to have some effect?
Here is a (very) short summary of a theory:

[Irri speaking to Daenerys] "He told me the moon was an egg, Khaleesi. That once, there were two moons in the sky, but one wandered too close to the sun and it cracked from the heat. Out of it poured a thousand, thousand dragons, and they drank the sun's fire."

Is this fanciful myth based on some truth?
In real life, our moon maintains our axial tilt, causing our seasons to be regular. If that world did lose one its moons, that would explain the uneven seasons.
These “dragons “may illustrate the fiery burst of the moon’s destruction. So, what happened?
I know who we could ask…
In the next post, I will discuss who I think is “The Most Important Character”.
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Old 07-13-17, 01:40 PM   #3
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Re: A World of Ice and Fire : The Seasons

A prequel would definitely be interesting. I think The Doom of Valyria could make rich source material.
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Old 07-15-17, 07:11 PM   #4
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Re: A World of Ice and Fire : The Seasons

I would say the Most Important Character is:

Spoiler: drum roll...


There is a reason why the Children of the Forest are willing to risk all that they are to save him, and why the Walkers, the Night’s King himself, want to get ahold of him.
He can do what the Living needs to have done.
Bran can look way back to the Long Night, and see what happened. See and understand what the “forging” of Lightbringer was all about. See just what Azor Ahai really was! The legend will then be all clear to us, and the Living will know what to do, or perhaps what to prevent.
Seems right to me, anyway

Through him we could also find out:
-The origin of the Seastone Chair
-What happened at Summerhall
-The Identity of the Mystery Knight

And I suspect he will have other abilities once he gets his Jedi on.
Which I think he will able to do when he gets to the Isle of Faces, a sort of Weirwood Tree preserve.



The Isle of Faces
In the center of Westeros is a great lake known as the God’s Eye, just south of Harrenhal. In the center of this lake is the Isle of Faces, one of the few mysterious ancient places that are left south of the Wall. This isle is ever shrouded in mists, and none are able to set foot on its sacred shores. It’s only inhabitants are the Green Men, the guardians of the Isle. It may be that there are Children of the Forest that still dwell there. It is to this place that Bran may finally go. (map)
As a finely polished lens can focus light and be used to see a great distance, the great congregation of weirwood trees on the isle can be used to magnify Brans abilities. This may turn out to be more effective than dragons. From this vantage point, Bran will direct a great force against the Walkers.

Spoiler: a little humor
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Old 07-15-17, 07:34 PM   #5
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Re: Game of Thrones : The Most Important Character

Bran was the first character i thought of when i saw the thread title. He's also the first character introduced who's been a regular.
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Old 07-15-17, 08:10 PM   #6
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Re: Game of Thrones : The Most Important Character

Bran's magical mystery tour.

It's fine. I like Bran.
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Old 08-03-17, 02:22 AM   #7
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Game of Thrones : Endgame

---------->x<----------


“I am a friend of the people,” Varys will tell you. “I serve the realm”.



---------->x<----------


He had come to Kingslanding only four years before Robert’s Rebellion. Before that, he had lived in the Free Cities of Myr and Pentos, subsisting off, and later become rich by, thievery and blackmail.


However, he had his beginning in Lys, where he was born into slavery. While very young he went to work among a theater troupe that travelled extensively, even to Westeros. Then one day, while in Myr, he was purchased from his master by a man who dealt in the dark arts. And it was the following events that this post mostly concerns itself with:

“He gave me a potion that made me powerless to move or speak, yet did nothing to dull my senses. With a long, hooked blade, he sliced me root and stem, chanting all the while. I watched him burn my manly parts on a brazier. The flames turned BLUE, and I heard a voice answer his call, though I did not understand the words they spoke.”
-A Clash of Kings Ch. 44


A voice from a BLUE flame, now who might that be? A connection to the Great Other?
In the books, we have not been introduced to this conjurer as yet, but on the show, we are given a poor excuse for a Hogwarts drop-out that is delivered to Varys in a crate. But I don’t want to rant about the show here. Rather, I would like to point out that during that same scene we are given a glimpse of Varys’ reflection in a mirror. Quite often this done in shows to express something that is going on with the character internally. By the looks of it, Varys’ perfumy charm is concealing more than just medieval hygiene.



This ritual appears to be a “conjuration”; the act of calling on or invoking a sacred name.
The usual reason, I am told, for such an act is to find favor with whoever is being called upon, to increase one’s fortunes, by agreeing to join in the cause of the one who’s name is called upon.
If this name is connected with a desire to achieve goals even to the point of ruthlessness and destructive cruelty, then the cruelty of the ritual would prove the conjurer’s willingness to serve in those regards.
Therefore, once this ritual was completed, something else had begun. What did this ritual set in motion?

Let’s look at the time this occurred.
The age for apprenticeship was between 10-15, so Varys was about 13 when he joined the troupe. According to how Illyrio Mopatis recounts his meeting him, they began their association when Varys was about 17. Varys came to Westeros about 20 years before our story begins, and he had already enjoyed several prosperous years before that.
This then puts the time of this terrible ritual about 40 years ago, the same time that the Tragedy of Summerhall occurred (and the birth of Rhaegar Targaryen).



Did this tragedy occur by the contrivance of this conjurer and this ritual?
It was soon after this that Maelys the Monstrous (called so because his enormous upper torso had a second head growing from his neck) attempted what would turn out to be the final “Blackfyre Rebellion”.

What if one of them snored?

But why choose Varys? Was there a blood connection between he and House Targaryen? Could Varys have come from Valyrian descent? Lys certainly had many peoples of Valyrian blood amongst their population. He doesn’t seem to have the tell-tale purplish eye color of the Valyrians, though there were even Targaryens that had dark eyes, such as Baelor son of Daeron II and others. But there is no definite evidence.

And what of this “Voice”? Does the flame turning blue imply a connection to the Great Other? Until we understand the words that it spoke, we can only guess: but it was certainly not the voice of One that valued the sanctity of the warmth of Life.



But that voice still seems to speak to Varys, for as he says himself: "Yet I still dream of that night…I dream of the voice. The voice from the flames.”
Is he still in the clutches of that malevolent spirit?
It may be possible that, as Varys lives out his days, going about his business seemingly in possession of his own person, that at an hour that none could predict, The Voice will speak to him again; bending his will to its own. What “realm” will he serve then?


So, it is interesting that in these recent episodes, there was a great deal of focus on where Varys’ loyalties actually lay; perhaps a foreshadowing of things to come.

---------->x<----------
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Old 08-03-17, 02:41 AM   #8
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Re: Game of Thrones : Endgame

J_C, I don't watch the show, so I don't know how Varys's story unfolds there, but I very much have thought that Varys is connected to the tragedy at Summerhall in the books. I think he was used in a ritual that was involved in trying to bring a dragon to life, especially given what he sacrificed in the ritual.

I *also* think the Starks are related to the White Walkers in some way -- like, maybe, the Winterfell crypts are summoning them? Or that the crypts at least hold some answers about the Walkers.

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Old 08-03-17, 03:16 AM   #9
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Re: Game of Thrones : Endgame

Have the books addressed the makings of the Knight King, or how he came to be? I've read theories like he's an ancient Targaryen to the original first man to some who also think a former nights watch Stark...
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Old 08-03-17, 03:38 AM   #10
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Re: Game of Thrones : Endgame

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Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
Have the books addressed the makings of the Knight King, or how he came to be? I've read theories like he's an ancient Targaryen to the original first man to some who also think a former nights watch Stark...
The Night's King, as the leader of the White Walkers, is purely a construct for the show.

In the books, there was a legendary figure known as the Night's King, but he was a human, in fact he was the 13th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch; thousands of years ago. He went over to the dark side, far worse than Craster. There is no Night's King in the present story.

As you may know the "White Walkers" are originally called "The Others" in the books, and are presented as a race far more alien than merely transmogrified humans.
However, they only appear very rarely in the books.
If they have any form of hierarchy, it is unknown.
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