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Old 08-24-17, 12:37 PM   #11
jaystao
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Re: The moralilty of Game of Thrones

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Dany has been murdering her enemies... roasting, crucifying, locking them in vaults to slowly starve to death since the beginning.

Anyone who is now demanding she take Westeros with a big bag of love and flowers has been deceiving themselves for a very long time.

She had 3 leaders of the slavers in front of her and she about to Ship-be-que their fleet. All she had to do was say watch. Instead
she had Gray Worm murder them.

In Westeros she plans on leading "the people" and there's probably not a darn one of the people who give 3 piles of dung about roasting the Tarlys.
WH

Many good points which I agree with, and my point entirely - she is just as culpable to the cruelties of the world as any other, more so because she wields so much power (some would suggest that she rather 'mirrors' the world she was forced into). I think it was Tyrian who summed it up once again, though Danny claims many things on the nature of benevolence she is prone to acts of impulsive vengeful fury which results often in terrible violence. Was there any other way in a world so cruel? Perhaps, but his point is the ends does not justify the means, if she fails to reconcile at least that side of her with her path to rule then she is not much better then any of the others, who also justify their path to power by the rewards of 'winning' (Cercei as example number one).

Quote:
I get the whole avoidance of civilian casualties, but that is where the morality debate should end. Breaking the cycle should occur after she assumes power.
WH

The mistrust rather is that if she gains absolute power, if she wins the throne, what guaranty will there be that she just wont continue on the same impulsive violent prone path that she has shown, in fact history has shown that nine times out of ten this will happen. What people really want in these conditions is stability in which case it never mattered who sits on the throne as long as they continue that tradition.

Quote:
Interesting. Can one construct a definition of morality within this story? People can murder other people without retribution except revenge. Laws seem to be a very loose definition depending on whom one is talking to. There's no agreed upon set of rules except might will make right. There's no morality apparently to the walkers, other than they will conquer all.
ZW

It depends on if you believe in absolutes. Certainly Immanuel Kant would have you believe that something is wrong or right, always no matter the context or the time period. Murder is still murder, burning people alive is still burning people alive. There are other types of moral standards off coarse, moral relativity could apply here but that never worked in it's classic form because it meant that everyone has some point in regards to their moral code or lack thereoff. To move on from Danny however I would like to look at John Snow, who seems to pass as possibly the most Honorable candidate wielding power at the moment (possibly the only one).

We've seen a number of rulers now, so we have a good sum of examples of what types of rulers kind of exist in this world and how they work out (perhaps we could list them). John Snow is a reluctant ruler, perhaps thats what makes him so much 'better', he didn't really want the job and still would rather do other things. The maxim of 'protecting' life and protecting people, watching over them in a 'long watch' seems to be a powerful sense of a moral code which some people can rely on and is a big thing in GOT.

Likewise we could could look at the various religions in GOT and ideologies and how they work. But for now John Snow. The moral conundrum of this guy is this, he seems to only be allowed to have a sense of honor and to rule with it as a result of moral luck - that is, he bounces around surviving one battle and event after another, even death until he somehow wins and indeed wins himself a throne - he tries to rule by fairness but he lacks the political intrigue of his other counterparts (even Sansa had to school him a few times) and even when he was faced with such an responsibility he ended up being killed by his own kinsmen (FAIL). It took a Deux ex Machina for him to overcome that (several times if you ask me). Yes, he seems to rule with a strong moral compass and fairness, but in comparison to what other rulers have had to face he seems to be on the simple side (and only copes by divine intervention or happenstance) (though his ability to make allies through that sense of fairness also influences matters) - my question is, would he actually make a good ruler of Westeros if he was ever given the job, not that he would want it?
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Last edited by jaystao; 08-24-17 at 12:46 PM.
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