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LOST Theories So you think you know some secrets of the island? Maybe you can explain everything. If it's original and you can back it up, we'd love to hear it.

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Old 02-15-07, 03:47 PM   #1
yung23
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+ RELOADED

Anyone who has seen matrix 2, reloaded should agree with this simple theory.

During desmonds time havid/flashback we were given the answer to what was going on with our time seeing hero.

During the scene with the old lady, TPTB completely ripped off the entire Neo/Oracle bench chat.

(the one which took place right before the burly brawl)

in Reloaded, we see Neo and the Oracle sit down on the park bench, neo hesitates at first, but then sits, as he does, the oracle offers Neo some candy.

and the exact same shot is used when the old lady offers desmond chestnuts.

I got a very strong matrix feeling from that whole havid.

it's as if this place was manifested for desmond, to be as real as kates horse etc, during his own reload into the island.

The show failed to give a physical description of what actually happened to poor desmond, but I get the feeling he must of been imported" into a temp storage area, kinda like his own construct hosted one on one by the islands host, Apollo.


I need the matrix screen caps for this to work better, but the similarity between that scene in the matrix and the bench scene in last nights episode was huge imo.






we even had a further hint toward a digital matrix in the havid.
the science friend Desmond spoke with was heard discussing a female friends thesis.

He stated something about getting 10 different outcomes when running the same simulation ten times, & it was all about predictability..

which is the base for computing in probability matrices.


so desmonds trip may have been an example of this, but in our case, the outcome was the same.

I just think the episode may have been a nod at the Matrix theory.
freudian or yungian alike.
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"I will strike her children dead.
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Last edited by yung23; 04-17-14 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 02-15-07, 04:04 PM   #2
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Re: RELOADED

I saw the resemblances however, I think that this woman with Desmond, was as Desmond put it his own mind screwing with him. The fact that he has seen this all happen before could result from a more creative theory than the "matrix" called Infinite Regression and/or meta dimension convergence.
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Old 02-15-07, 05:33 PM   #3
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Re: RELOADED

there is the possibility it actually occured.
but in that case, who was this woman, and why did she know so much ?
(she had to be the island host, imo)

I think desmonds pre-cog abilities in the past were merely due to the ablities gleamed from the key turn. he was imported into the apollian space where time is no prison.. he tapped the same source APollo is part of. (he helped himself)


its kinda like the star trek where picard went into the past and saw the spacetime disturbance he created in the future.


this whole timeline is going to be hard to make sense of.

did this happen or did it not ?

IF it did, then Charlie should remember the crazy man conversation about a hatch computer and the numbers.

and penelope may find out from the science guy about the island desmond rambled on about..
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"Then I saw thrones, and people seated on them who were given authority to judge."

"These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them...."

"They follow the Lamb wherever he goes."

"Then he measured its wall: 144 cubits,
according to the measure of a man,
that is, of an angel
"

Revelations 2:23
"I will strike her children dead.
Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and MINDs,
and I will repay each of you according to your deeds."



Last edited by yung23; 02-15-07 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 02-15-07, 05:37 PM   #4
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Re: RELOADED

It did have that vibe no doubt but again, I don't think this is a benevolent woman. Why would a woman with a clear policy of non-intervention intervene when Desmond was about to buy the ring? Nah, I'm thinking that she's much closer to the Architect. She had a role to play in aking sure that Des stayed/got to the island, however you want to look at it.
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Old 02-15-07, 05:45 PM   #5
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Re: RELOADED

I put this in another thread but it may pertain to this thread too:

I have a problem with this whole idea. First if Desmond was going to end up pushing that button and turning the key no matter what he did, since he was predestined to do it according to the woman, then why should she be concerned with the ring and getting him there?

Second, this then means the word is ending anyway, so why be concerned that he turns the key to save the world?

Sounds like it is all about buying time to me. A better explanation is predestination+meta dimension convergence+infinite regression.
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Old 02-15-07, 07:10 PM   #6
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Re: RELOADED

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke Push-Ups View Post
It did have that vibe no doubt but again, I don't think this is a benevolent woman. Why would a woman with a clear policy of non-intervention intervene when Desmond was about to buy the ring? Nah, I'm thinking that she's much closer to the Architect. She had a role to play in aking sure that Des stayed/got to the island, however you want to look at it.
I agree.

But then, I have always leaned toward the conspiracy theories. We've seen how Dharma/widmore/Mittelos are fully capable of finding people if they really want them (Juliet). Widmore already knew of Des because he was dating his daughter. I believe this woman in the jewelry store was a plant...it would've been easy to trace Desmond's movements...and of course she would know all about the island, the button, etc., as the whole island hatch setup has been in existence since way back in the 1970s, 1980s.

She planted a negative seed in Desmond. She got him into the right mindset of being a loser, of playing on his feelings of inadequacy toward Penny, of his existing feelings of having a life with no purpose. In dealing with someone like that, someone who is amenable to coercion (remember that line spoken about Locke by the hitchhiker cop??), if you are a skilled Dharma operative who excels at mind control and manipulation, you will play on a person's known weaknesses and *tell* them their new destiny, their real destiny, all the while knowing you are planting a seed in their mind to carry out your predetermined plans.

When she said "...or we're going to die" she sounded very much like she was speaking of a particular, special group, not the whole world.

His precognitive abilities of his future on the island were obviously already working in his life in London.

We know that he did join the military. We know that Penny would've known he joined the military, that he got out, that he went on a round-the-world race because we were shown that last season. We know the photo is real, despite its fake backdrop, because they showed it lying on the ground on the island, having survived the hatch implosion.

If Penny did ever hear him ranting on and on about some crazy island he was having hunches about, while in their former life together in London, she would've put 2+2 together when he disappeared from his race, knowing her father's ability to make pretty much anything happen, and she would've then enlisted the help of the 2 guys in the listening station, to help her find Desmond.

Bottom line:

I believe the woman in the jewelry store was a dharma plant. This explains her crazy insistence and her forceful way of saying things like "No you will not do this, you will do this..."

I believe that Desmond already had precog abilities before ever coming to the island, and when he was getting his deja vu feelings of island happenings, he was simply getting glimpses into his future.

I believe that when he told Charlie "when I turned the key, my life flashed before my eyes" he meant that the same way people do when they almost die and have the same experience.

In other words, I believe it was a flashback memory and not a "back to the future" sort of happening.

And, for the record, we were all left with the dismal thought, "Charlie is going to die." Well, not necessarily. If it truly was "his time to die" he would've died already from being strung up by Ethan, or from the lightning strike, or from drowning. If it is your time to die, you DIE. YOu don't get several chances.

Charlie now has the choice to buck up, become even stronger and say, NO, I have a lot to live for now, I have Claire and Aaron and my new life on this island. I am NOT going to "die anyway." I mean, hell, we're all gonna die...sometime.
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Old 02-15-07, 07:17 PM   #7
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Re: RELOADED

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz-trouve-verlorene View Post
I

If Penny did ever hear him ranting on and on about some crazy island he was having hunches about, while in their former life together in London, she would've put 2+2 together when he disappeared from his race, knowing her father's ability to make pretty much anything happen, and she would've then enlisted the help of the 2 guys in the listening station, to help her find Desmond.
Great point here. And only time can tell on this one through a future Des/Pene flashback sequence if this is true. But it would add a major twist if Des did rant to Pene about the island, and she knows he is there, stuck in an alternate time dimension.
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Old 02-15-07, 07:22 PM   #8
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Re: RELOADED

Yung,
I hadn't caught the Matrix reference, but you are absolutely correct. I think we agree completely about the basics of what really happened except that where you see a technical-Apollo, I see a otherworldly-Jacob. But regardless, this is a dream and the woman is deceiving Desmond. I think...

Quote:
Originally Posted by yung23 View Post
there is the possibility it actually occurred.
but in that case, who was this woman, and why did she know so much ?
(she had to be the island host, imo)
Right. This is the big problem with it really having occurred. Another big problem is that he wakes up and does not relive all that button-pushing.

But I want to point out one little alternative to what both of us are saying. You say she has to be the island host. But Desmond himself already suggested an alternative. She could be his subconscious. I can't find that this was disproved by her little stunt in the sequence. That merely showed he wasn't dreaming her up back then. It didn't rule out that idea that he was dreaming now and inserted her into his memory-dream. However, this idea creates some other problems that would have to be worked out. It wouldn't explain the pre-cog or the loss of Desmond's pants or his odd survival of what must have been a tremendous blast.

So all in all, the evidence points toward an agent, island host is a nice neutral term, influencing Desmond to have this particular dream, receive this message from the woman, and begin having limited pre-cog that generally involves Charlie's death.
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Old 02-15-07, 10:04 PM   #9
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Re: RELOADED

I definitely was thinking of her like the Oracle, although I didn't make the connection between the nuts and the candy. And even though I'd just watched the most recent episode of Day Break online, the way they kept saying deja vu still reminded me more of The Matrix.
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Old 02-16-07, 03:07 PM   #10
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Re: + RELOADED

just to get the point across in a different method..

where desmond was..

he was IN his memories.

instead of smokey scanning desmond, then building his memories On the island in physical form, I think desmond was somehow IN his own memory

it was merely a flashback, with the island god as his host
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"Then I saw thrones, and people seated on them who were given authority to judge."

"These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them...."

"They follow the Lamb wherever he goes."

"Then he measured its wall: 144 cubits,
according to the measure of a man,
that is, of an angel
"

Revelations 2:23
"I will strike her children dead.
Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and MINDs,
and I will repay each of you according to your deeds."



Last edited by yung23; 06-23-08 at 09:49 PM.
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