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LOST Theories So you think you know some secrets of the island? Maybe you can explain everything. If it's original and you can back it up, we'd love to hear it.

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Old 07-29-10, 04:04 PM   #21
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Re: + Was Lost's ending already figured out?

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Originally Posted by sgtdraino View Post
Ah, if only that was the ending we had gotten. That would have been tons better than what we got.

I thought the same thing. I wish thats how they ended it.

I agree with StillAngryAboutLost, we received the wrong ending.
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Old 07-29-10, 04:35 PM   #22
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Re: + Was Lost's ending already figured out?

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Originally Posted by sgtdraino View Post
Ah, if only that was the ending we had gotten. That would have been tons better than what we got.
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Originally Posted by LostViking View Post
I thought the same thing. I wish thats how they ended it.

I agree with StillAngryAboutLost, we received the wrong ending.
A scientific ending would have made zero sense. The ending we got about Fate, Faith and The Island makes perfect sense whether it sucked or not. No, what you wanted was a completely different show.

You wanted TLE on ABC. The Dharma Chronicles. Or perhaps, Hello Hanso?

You wanted Dharma to be working on saving the world. What you got were their clueless aspirations to try and change it.

You wanted Numbers that represented a humanity saving equation. What you got were serial Numbers stamped on a hatch.

You wanted time-traveling scientists from the future. What you got was an ancient, dysfunctional family.

Science was introduced in S2 and Dharma was demystified in S5.

Faraday's Change hypothesis was proven incorrect.

I can understand not liking the final resolution and, by extension, the coda of the entire series, but anyone who was waiting for a Scientific ending was conned by Darlton. They conned us all to some extent, of course, but it was never going to be about Science in The End. The series made a concerted, focused effort since S2 to move away from Science. The same cannot be said for a portion of the viewing audience, however.
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Old 07-29-10, 09:53 PM   #23
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Re: + Was Lost's ending already figured out?

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Originally Posted by Bob Sacamano View Post
A scientific ending would have made zero sense. The ending we got about Fate, Faith and The Island makes perfect sense whether it sucked or not. No, what you wanted was a completely different show...

I can understand not liking the final resolution and, by extension, the coda of the entire series, but anyone who was waiting for a Scientific ending was conned by Darlton. They conned us all to some extent, of course, but it was never going to be about Science in The End. The series made a concerted, focused effort since S2 to move away from Science. The same cannot be said for a portion of the viewing audience, however.
There is a Scientific ending to Lost, but it takes Faith to get there. The Scientific ending is pseudoscientific, of course -- as is everything that involves Time Travel -- but it is there. It takes a basic understanding of predestination paradox and quantum physics, and beyond that it takes a leap of faith, because when you go back in time and change things the things you've changed cease to exist, and hence they can't show you that. But they can show you a bunch of books and philosophers to read, and hint and suggest at what kinds of "artifacts" time-travelers might leave behind.

So Lost embraces a delicious irony: The "observable" ending is an ending of Faith -- it is found through a scientific process. The "hidden" or subtextual ending is an ending of Science, yet it is found through a faithful process, of seeing what can't be shown.
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Old 07-29-10, 10:12 PM   #24
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Re: + Was Lost's ending already figured out?

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Originally Posted by jane_eire View Post
The Scientific ending is pseudoscientific.
How wonderfully, convenient.

What does the ending say about disappearing freckles, then? Time Travel was not a part of S6, jane and neither was Science.

We're trying to stay free of interpretation here. "Seeing what can't be shown" is nothing but mularkey as is your belief that time travel had a substantive role in the narrative beyond what we saw in S5 and the fact that the 815s created the Island history they had heard of since S2 and specifically were the causse of "The Incident."
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Old 07-29-10, 11:21 PM   #25
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Re: + Was Lost's ending already figured out?

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Originally Posted by Bob Sacamano View Post
How wonderfully, convenient.

What does the ending say about disappearing freckles, then? Time Travel was not a part of S6, jane and neither was Science.
Kate's freckles are quite prominent in The End, so this is Good Kate.

Time Travel is necessarily pseudoscientific. According to Stephen Hawking, whose book on Time appears in Lost, it would take a tremendous amount of energy just to send light back in time, let alone matter. What Lost posits, though, is sending a point of view back in time. Having no mass or energy, this is "scientifically" speaking much more feasible, except that a "point of view" is entirely imaginary.

So let me clarify what I mean by the "science" of Lost, which has to do with the rules of the Island, and specifically the Island's rules of Time Travel. These aren't scientific per se,

Time Travel is every bit a factor in 6 as it is in 1, and it was a part of 1 from the very beginning. Or should I say, from the very End, for which the entire series was written. The Time Travel is, with the exception of Desmond and the Time Skipping shenanigans, entirely beneath the surface, and this is a part of the Rules.


Quote:
We're trying to stay free of interpretation here.
Aside from the fact that it's impossible to "stay free of interpretation" when discussing a work of art, you are also incorrect in your usage of "we". Unless you mean the "royal" we...

What's so deliciously ironic of your position is how devoid of Faith it is. You stick with the strictly observed... your entire approach is scientific. It leads you to Faith, yet you never make the leap... which of course would lead you to a less "faithful" outcome, one that is oriented around Time Travel. Sadly, those who are actually invested in such an Ending have neither the time nor inclination to do the research and close readings necessary to "uncover" it.
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Old 07-30-10, 12:03 AM   #26
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Re: + Was Lost's ending already figured out?

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Originally Posted by sgtdraino View Post
Ah, if only that was the ending we had gotten. That would have been tons better than what we got.
Can't say I agree. That will be too much like the matrix theory that was floating around and I was completely against. While it is true that the ending sucked (for more reasons than one), I can't say a DHARMA experiment answer would have made it any better.
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Old 07-30-10, 12:11 AM   #27
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Re: + Was Lost's ending already figured out?

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Originally Posted by jane_eire View Post
There is a Scientific ending to Lost, but it takes Faith to get there. The Scientific ending is pseudoscientific, of course -- as is everything that involves Time Travel
First time travel is not pseudoscience, it is an actual field of study and can be preformed to a certain degree. Pseudo comes from the Greek sufix pseudo meaning false, or pretending. So pseudoscience is anything that pretends to be science. An example is alchemy. Saying time travel is in the same field as alchemy is not only absurd,<snip>

Mod note: Attack the post not the poster!
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Old 07-30-10, 01:08 AM   #28
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Re: + Was Lost's ending already figured out?

Bob,

Yes, you got me I want to watch "Hello Hanso". Are you going to write it? I am there.

But, I think I may disagree with both you and Jane. You don't need any of the time travel, Dharma hippies, or funky dreams to tell the story we saw ending in the finale.

You only need the first half of season one and the last half of season 6. I was not really wanting or expecting a science, pseudoscience, or a P.K. Dick ending. (Wishing yes, but needing no) I just wanted to know I did not waste my time caring about all that middle 5 years of information. I wanted to know it was not all complete drivel designed to keep me around. I was not given that by this ending. It was wasteful drivel. Fun drivel - but meaningless.

If I am wrong, then please someone do me a favor and correct me! I mean it sincerely.

I look at that final scene in the church and the last few episodes in purgatory, and I can't see how any of that other stuff was necessary. Even if you argue that, without all the other stuff, Jack stopping the hole wouldn't have meaning. I thought about that, and I don't see the need for it still.

We could have seen the plane crash. We could see the survivors struggling with their situation. We could see the flashbacks. We could learn about Sawyer, Jack, Kate, Hurley. We could see them struggling with the sounds of the monster, with Locke's walking, with the remoteness and strangeness of the island. Then we could see them return home to have everything wrong corrected. To slowly realize that they had met before, that they had been in each other's lives again and again. And then the final scene in the church, where they are ready to move on together.


I like that story. Thats a good story for this lostviking. But, why take us down all those other roads? Why show us all those weird doors? How did any of that matter in the end?


Last edited by LostViking; 07-30-10 at 01:11 AM.
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Old 07-30-10, 02:08 AM   #29
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Re: + Was Lost's ending already figured out?

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Originally Posted by LostViking View Post
Yes, you got me I want to watch "Hello Hanso". Are you going to write it? I am there.
I think I could write it LV - at least as good as those hack TLE writers.
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You only need the first half of season one and the last half of season 6.
Your argument is really about the filler from seasons 2 - 5...and I can't really disagree with you. Some, okay, maybe a lot of that stuff was filler. The difference is that many fans invested in the filler and kept on believing despite the narrative.

I was always dismissive of Science and Free Will in the story, and the opposite of those concepts was what held true in The End. There was a purposefulness to the writing that you can point to that was indicative of the ending, i.e. Jack's S4 Island appendectomy. They made some choices early on and when it came to show us Dharma they showed us all the warts and bruises. The story rejected Science long ago.
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I look at that final scene in the church and the last few episodes in purgatory, and I can't see how any of that other stuff was necessary. Even if you argue that, without all the other stuff, Jack stopping the hole wouldn't have meaning. I thought about that, and I don't see the need for it still.
Sure, there was a lot that didn't matter in the end and some of that stuff was presented as potentially important. But it never was - we discussed Mrs. Gardner's picture frames from months, but the narrative couldn't give a rats ass about moving picture frames or humanity saving equations.
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I like that story. Thats a good story for this lostviking. But, why take us down all those other roads? Why show us all those weird doors? How did any of that matter in the end?
They were writing a Mystery. That's doesn't mean that they necessarily did a great job of it. There were many macguffins. But the show asked us to choose Science or Faith; I would bet that those who choose 'Science' are uniformally unhappy simply because the show never went in that direction.
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Old 07-30-10, 02:13 AM   #30
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Re: + Was Lost's ending already figured out?

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But the show asked us to choose Science or Faith; I would bet that those who choose 'Science' are uniformally unhappy simply because the show never went in that direction.
Yes, who would think that the people who want a coherent answer to questions posed would be unhappy when they say, "this is what happens, you just need faith" would be unhappy.
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