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LOST Theories So you think you know some secrets of the island? Maybe you can explain everything. If it's original and you can back it up, we'd love to hear it.

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Old 05-13-08, 07:04 AM   #1
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+ Supposetahs...

At this point, it's pretty clear that much of Lost is concerned with things happening the way they are "supposed to" -- possibly the most repeated phrase on the show.

I want to throw out a few examples, then pose a few questions, then encourage you all to chime in. If we get somewhere, I'll revise this post with a master list similar to the one in Oh The Things That We Know.

We know some things were supposed to happen and did happen (I will be short for now):
  • Desmond was supposed to go to the Island and push the button.
  • Locke was supposed to find the Pearl hatch.
  • Some of our heroes were supposed to be on the plane.
  • Charlie was supposed to die.
We also suspect that some things were supposed to happen, but didn't:
  • Locke was supposed to come to the Island sooner.
  • Charlie was supposed to die before reaching the Looking Glass.
  • Locke was supposed to find the Pearl rather than the Swan.
  • Eko was supposed to stop John from destroying the Swan.
And we have been told (by sources of varying credibility) that some things are NOT supposed to happen.
  • The Oceanic Six were not supposed to leave the Island.
  • Jack is not supposed to raise Aaron.
  • Aaron is not supposed to be "raised by another."
So what else was supposed to happen? And what wasn't? And if something wasn't supposed to happen, are we seeing the universe "course-correcting" as the show goes on? Methinks if you figure out these questions, you figure out Lost. Here are a few of the more pressing ones:
  • Was Flight 815 supposed to crash?
  • Was Christian Shepherd supposed to die?
  • Who is Aaron supposed to be raised by?
  • Was Sarah supposed to be cured by Jack?
Finally, who defines "supposed to"? In the case of Aaron, for instance, we've heard a few different things about where he's supposed to be and in whose custody. The Locke hatch saga is quite unclear as well -- Was he supposed to find the Pearl and never the Swan? Was he supposed to save the Swan or damn it? Was he supposed to go to the Island as a boy?
  • Are we getting conflicting messages about what is supposed to happen?
  • Are there two sides (or more) issuing these "supposetahs"?
  • Can we discern a pattern in the supposetahs?
  • Can we discern a pattern of course-correction in relation to failed supposetahs in what happens on the Island?
Any thoughts?
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Old 05-13-08, 07:22 AM   #2
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Re: Supposetahs...

Quote:
Locke was supposed to come to the Island sooner.
Do you mean as a child? Are we certain Alpert would have taken him to the island?

I guess the first step would be to identify agency in all the "supposedtahs." Some were direct imperatives, while others were only implied. That ambiguity is part and parcel of the free will and destiny theme, which is probably why we could argue at length about every single one.
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Old 05-13-08, 10:56 AM   #3
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Re: Supposetahs...

I pointed this one out a long time ago.
1.04 Walkabout (after Locke is denied inclusion on the walkabout)

LOCKE: Hey, hey, don't you walk away from me. [The wheelchair reveal]. You don't know who you're dealing with. Don't ever tell me what I can't do, ever. This is destiny. This is destiny. This is my destiny. (yelling) I'm supposed to do this, dammit. Don't tell me what I can't do. Don't tell me what I can't. . .


I suggested back then that Locke was told (in a dream or by a psychic) that he was "supposed" to go on this walkabout. I've thought that Locke knew the walkabout was key for him to regain the use of his legs -- that maybe he even saw himself exploring and hunting in rugged terrain.
I believe that he realized when he woke from the crash that his derailed walkabout was the path he had to take to get to his "true walkabout" on the island.

Anyway this was the first big "suppose to" for me and ever since then, I have thought that there was something or someone giving directions.
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Old 05-13-08, 03:02 PM   #4
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Re: Supposetahs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by drabauer View Post
Do you mean as a child? Are we certain Alpert would have taken him to the island?
I think the science camp was a pretty good indication of that, but not 100 percent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drabauer View Post
I guess the first step would be to identify agency in all the "supposedtahs." Some were direct imperatives, while others were only implied.
Agency is a very difficult question here. As in Bob Sacamano's "Their Dreams Come True" thread we're left trying to distinguish between the sources of manifestations (Dream Yemi whose orders conflict with Smokey Yemi's actions, etc.). Plus we have this coming out of the mouths of various characters who are all working agendas of their own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clayseason1 View Post
I pointed this one out a long time ago.
1.04 Walkabout (after Locke is denied inclusion on the walkabout)

LOCKE: Hey, hey, don't you walk away from me. [The wheelchair reveal]. You don't know who you're dealing with. Don't ever tell me what I can't do, ever. This is destiny. This is destiny. This is my destiny. (yelling) I'm supposed to do this, dammit. Don't tell me what I can't do. Don't tell me what I can't. . .


I suggested back then that Locke was told (in a dream or by a psychic) that he was "supposed" to go on this walkabout. I've thought that Locke knew the walkabout was key for him to regain the use of his legs -- that maybe he even saw himself exploring and hunting in rugged terrain.
I believe that he realized when he woke from the crash that his derailed walkabout was the path he had to take to get to his "true walkabout" on the island.

Anyway this was the first big "suppose to" for me and ever since then, I have thought that there was something or someone giving directions.
And a very good call that was... That is indeed the first. A few others of note (I am for right now just picking examples that use the exact language). This highlights the difficulty of picking the agency...

Opening the hatch

S1E19 Locke: This was supposed to work. This was supposed to work!
Locke: That's impossible. We didn't find this by accident. We're supposed to...
Boone: Oh, we're supposed to. We're supposed to find this, right? We're supposed to open it, right? Then tell me something, John, if we're supposed to open it, then why the hell haven't we opened it yet?
Locke: I don't know, Boone, but we're supposed to go to this place. We (were) supposed to find that plane. Will you come with me?


On the first hatch troubles:

S2E3 Locke: This isn't... this isn't what was supposed to happen!
S2E3 Jack: What was supposed to happen?

After Eko abandons building the church:

S2E22 Charlie: Well, what about the church? You said we were supposed to be building it together, man.
S2E22 Mr. Eko: I am supposed to do something different now.

On the polar bear cave:

S3E3 Locke: I'm going in there because I'm supposed to go in there.

Sayid to Locke:

Locke: Folks back at the beach call it The Monster. I don't really have a name for it. You don't believe in monsters.
Sayid: I believe in what I can see... but obviously you have. [Locke gives an affirmative gesture while swallowing bottled water]
Sayid: So why don't you tell me what you think it is?
Locke: Might be what brought us here.
Sayid: So you believe that this monster decided that Eko was supposed to die?
Locke: I believe Eko died for a reason. I just don't know what it is yet.

An important one:

S3E8 Ms. Hawking: Because it wouldn't matter. Had I warned him about the scaffolding, tomorrow he'd be hit by a taxi. If I warned him about the taxi, he'd fall in the shower and break his neck. The universe, unfortunately, has a way of...course correcting. That man was supposed to die. That was his path. Just as it's your path to go to the island. You don't do it because you choose to, Desmond. You do it because you are supposed to.

And later:

S3E8 Desmond: I'm sorry, Pen. But, this...we're not supposed to be together.

Richard recruiting Juliet:

S3E16 Richard Alpert: Let me ask you something, Juliet. You took a woman, your own sister, whose reproductive system was ravaged by chemotherapy, who was...sterile, and you made her pregnant. You created life where life wasn't supposed to be. That's a gift, Juliet. You have a gift. Now, don't you feel you're meant to do something significant with it? Where we're going, you can do just that.

On finding Naomi:

Desmond: They...whoever it is...could be hurt. We have to go, all 4 of us, now.
Charlie: Why?
Desmond: Because that's the way it's supposed to happen.
Charlie: Right. Well, I guess it's supposed to happen without me. [Desmond has memory flashes of his photo, Charlie's death, and lowering the parachutist from a tree]
Desmond: We'll leave by first light then...together.
Charlie: Terrific.

Desmond on not getting married:

Ruth: We dated for 6 years and the closest you ever came to a religious experience was Celtic winning the cup.
Desmond: Look...yes...I was scared about the wedding, so I had a few pints too many. Maybe I...I raised my eyes and I asked, 'Am I doing the right thing?'...and that's the last thing I remember. And when I woke up, I was lying on my back in the street...and I don't know how I got there. And there was this man standing over me, Ruth. And he reached out his hand and he said to me, 'Can I help you, brother?' And the first thing I noticed was the rope tied around his waist and...I looked at him and...I knew, I knew I was supposed to go with him. I was supposed to leave...everything that mattered behind. Sacrifice all of it...for a greater calling.

More Desmond...

Brother Campbell: He does. You've just spent too much time running away to realize what you may be running toward. [Brother Campbell stands and starts to leave the room]
Desmond: Hey? [Brother Campbell stops and turns to face Desmond]
Desmond: What am I supposed to do now?
Brother Campbell: Whatever comes next.

On Charlie:

S3E17 Desmond: The flashes don't happen exactly how I saw them. The picture changes. I was supposed to let you die, Charlie.

On Charlie again:

S3E21 Desmond: Maybe I keep seeing you die because...I'm supposed to take your place.
S3E21 Charlie: You and I both know. You're not supposed to take my place, brother.

A missed supposetah:

S4E2 Frank: Because I was supposed to be flying Oceanic 815 on that day.

Supposetahs are NOT just about what you do but where and when you are:

S4E5 Desmond: No, this is wrong! I'm not supposed to be...
S4E5 Desmond: I'm not supposed to be here.
S4E5 Desmond: I'm not supposed to be here!
S4E5 Desmond: I'm not supposed to be here! Open this door! Open this door!
S4E5 Daniel Faraday: No, no, no. Not right now, Desmond. Where are you supposed to be? Where are you in 1996?
S4E5 Daniel Faraday: You? Help you? I don't understand. Why am I supposed to help you? Didn't I send you back here to help me?

The latter point, I think, bears repeating. The reason we know Island weirdness is at work is when someone is NOT where they are SUPPOSED TO be, whether it's Walt, Christian, Yemi or a black horse. So supposetahs aren't just action-commands -- and you can see this in the above quotes -- they are also about being where you ought.

Last edited by jmb3rg3r; 05-13-08 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 05-14-08, 03:44 PM   #5
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Re: Supposetahs...

I'm so glad to read this thread...I've long thought that the "supposetahs" were a very big part of the show.

Seeing what we've seen this season, I'm wondering if the supposetahs are some kind of, for lack of a better phrase, future memories? As if the Losties are getting little flashes from their future selves about how to proceed to make things right. I used to think this was some kind of time loop and they were doing everything over again, but now I'm not so sure. So not someone/something giving directions, but they themselves are giving the directions.
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Old 05-14-08, 04:16 PM   #6
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Re: Supposetahs...

The idea that they are giving themselves directions is interesting, though we don't have a lot of *direct* clues to support it. The most obvious argument against it, I suppose, is Jack, whose future self appears to be wracked with regret more than anyone, but whose direction from the Island weirdness has been minimal at best.

On that note, actually, I don't think we have EVER had a clear sense of what Jack is "supposed to" do. Other characters have been nudged in one direction or another that is broadly meaningful. All Jack ever got from the Island (that I can recall in this moment) is directions to find the cave.

Is Jack the one free man on Lost?
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Old 05-14-08, 07:04 PM   #7
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Re: Supposetahs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmberger View Post
The idea that they are giving themselves directions is interesting, though we don't have a lot of *direct* clues to support it. The most obvious argument against it, I suppose, is Jack, whose future self appears to be wracked with regret more than anyone, but whose direction from the Island weirdness has been minimal at best.

On that note, actually, I don't think we have EVER had a clear sense of what Jack is "supposed to" do. Other characters have been nudged in one direction or another that is broadly meaningful. All Jack ever got from the Island (that I can recall in this moment) is directions to find the cave.

Is Jack the one free man on Lost?


Well, we don't yet know exactly how Jacob figures in all of the supposetahs but Jack was not on Jacob's List.

I wonder if the dreamers.......Locke, Charlie, Claire, Hurley are all on Jacob's List.
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Old 05-14-08, 07:13 PM   #8
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Re: Supposetahs...

Are the dreamers the only fated ones?

Who have we seen being Supposed To do things?
  • Charlie (dreamer)
  • Locke (dreamer)
  • Claire/Aaron (Claire dreams but not in the same way as the others)
  • Eko (dreamer)
  • Desmond (flasher, er, dreamer)
  • Ben (former dreamer)
  • Hurley (dreamer)
  • Shannon (wet Walt seer)
Who has yet to be given a "supposed to" or a clearly defined dream?
  • Rose and Bernard
  • Paolo and Nikki (hah, hah)
  • Kate
  • Jack
  • Sawyer
  • Sayid
  • Jin and Sun
  • Juliette
So maybe Island supposetahs are a haves and have-not situation. Are the people who have yet to get a supposetah simply waiting for what will eventually come?

The first flashforward with Jack suggests this might be the case.

Interestingly, Locke tried to force dreamtime onto Boone, which didn't work out so well.

Are there supposetahs outside of the dreams and visions? On the one hand, Locke's most recent flashback suggests there might be (Alpert's selection of his from birth). On the other hand, Locke's a dreamer and his child's drawing of Smokey suggests he was a dreamer from a young age. Hard to beat birth, of course.

We have one big supposetah who has not had a dream (as far as I recall), and that's Michael, who is clearly supposetah do something, but we still don't really know what.
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Old 05-14-08, 07:20 PM   #9
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Re: Supposetahs...

I've oft wondered, with all his troubles, if Hurley really was supposed to be on the plane...

I don't see any Kate examples up there. Was there "supposed to" be a letter waiting for her at the motel...?
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Old 05-14-08, 08:22 PM   #10
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Re: Supposetahs...

I think that letter wasn't a grand "supposetah," if I am recalling correctly. Didn't it just tell her her mother was sick?
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