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LOST Theories So you think you know some secrets of the island? Maybe you can explain everything. If it's original and you can back it up, we'd love to hear it.

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Old 02-20-07, 01:55 PM   #1
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+ How many loops has Desmond "suffered"?

Right, this is really bothering me now. Fair enough that Desmond somehow travelled back in time when turning the failsafe key (if he actually did), and that he knew the lightning would hit Charlie because he had seen it before (i.e. he's on a timeloop)... But how the Hell did he know about Charlie drowning? Since the drowning happened AFTER the lightning strike, Desmond would have had to been on at least TWO loops already to know that saving Charlie from the lightning would mean that he would drown. This is obvious, because if Desmond has simply saved Charlie from the lightning and put it down to deja-vu, he would not have known that Charlie would drown shortly after UNLESS he had already seen that, too. When Desmond says, "I can't stop it forever", just how long IS forever... What I mean is, how many loops has Desmond been on already.. Is this what he means by "It's a bloody snow globe!"? He keeps reaching a point in time... getting further and further each time and seeing what's around the next corner, before he is hurled back to the paint-spattered floor in his apartment again???

This is really making my mind hurt. Presumably, Desmond has seen the next Final Destination-esque attempt on Charlie's life already, which would put him (logically) on his third loop already. I really don't get this at all. No wonder he is going insane........
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Old 02-20-07, 02:25 PM   #2
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Re: How many loops has Desmond "suffered"?

I fear that Desmond will suffer as many loops as Rousseau's distress call before Charlie actually expires.



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Old 02-20-07, 02:40 PM   #3
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Re: How many loops has Desmond "suffered"?

i dont think he was on a loop so much as him sees flashes of a possibility..
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Old 02-20-07, 02:46 PM   #4
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Re: How many loops has Desmond "suffered"?

This idea of loops is a different interpretation of the episode than what many of us have assumed. I'm not saying it's wrong, but just that this is a crucial point of ambiguity that makes it difficult to theorize about what's really happening.

The alternative way of looking at what Desmond experienced in the episode is this:
After turning the key, he awakens to find himself reliving a past event, but with recollections of the future. After about 24 hours, he is hit with a cricket bat and reawakens in the present, an undisclosed period of time after the hatch exploded. He has flashes before his eyes of things that are going to happen, including Locke's speech and doom for Charlie. He saved Charlie the first time, only to have another recipe for his demise flash in front of him. He saved Charlie the second time but now doubts that he can permanently protect him because of the advice from Mrs. Hawking during the original flashback.

This is a very different scenario than the "looping" idea. In this idea, Desmond only "relives" a brief period of time and never has to endure a long period in the hatch pushing the button. And he certainly doesn't have to relive these things more than once.

The additional wrinkle with either model is that we're not sure whether Desmond really relives anything at all or is experiencing a vivid dream, possibly one influenced by an external agent.

I guess for those of you who favor the looping model, the question becomes plausibility. Do we think Desmond would be behaving as he's done if he really has been through one full loop or several small loops for each altered time stream? Can we explain Mrs. Hawking in this scenario?
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Old 02-20-07, 02:59 PM   #5
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Re: How many loops has Desmond "suffered"?

I think when Desmond said...

Quote:
DESMOND: When I turned that key my life flashed before my eyes...
....it's possible he meant his whole life, even his life after he turned the key, right up until his death.

When he appeared to be back in the past he needed something to trigger one of these flashes, such as the package from 815, that triggered a barrage of memories that would seem to be of the future, but are in fact of the past.

I always felt when he talked about Locke giving his speech that it was a case of him remembering it, I never felt like he was seeing the future, just that he was remembering the past...

Quote:
DESMOND: I know you? How do I know you?

CHARLIE [ignoring Desmond]: Thank you, you can leave your number if you want.

DESMOND: How do I know you?

CHARLIE: I don't, uh...

DESMOND: Where do I know you from?

CHARLIE: Look, I don't know, but I'll remember if I could get some help.
[We see a flashback to the island when the hatch is imploding: Desmond looks for the key, and Charlie enters.]

CHARLIE: Hey, can I get some help?

[Back on the London street.]

DESMOND: You're Charlie.

CHARLIE: Yeah, name's on the sign. [referring to a homemade sign at his feet]

[We see flashes from the island: Inman in his environmental suit; Desmond holding the key; Inman dead with blood on Desmond's hand; Desmond running; the timer with hieroglyphs displayed; "system failure" displayed on the monitor; the execute button; the computer crashing to the ground.]

DESMOND [slightly crazed]: Who -- they -- they. It -- it was in the hatch. I remember seeing you. There was a -- there was a computer. There was a button. We -- we were on an island.

CHARLIE: We are on an island, mate. This is England.

DESMOND [a little more crazed]: No, it was real, man. I remember.

CHARLIE: Hey, alright. [to the crowd] This is why we don't do drugs.

DESMOND: No this -- I remember this. This all happened before. Today -- th -- th -- this happened today. This -- I remember that he said I wasn't worthy -- and then I -- and then I -- and then I came down and I -- and I took off my tie and I -- and then I lost my tie and Penny said where was it and then it started to rain and...
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Old 02-20-07, 03:11 PM   #6
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Re: How many loops has Desmond "suffered"?

Richardstone -- I agree that he's remembering something. But I think all he's remembering is these flashes, which he does believe represent fragments of his original memory and flashes of precognition. But in fact they are actually flashes of a false-vision supplied by an outside agent, much like the false-visions that others on the island have seen.
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Old 02-20-07, 03:32 PM   #7
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Re: How many loops has Desmond "suffered"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourtoes View Post
Richardstone -- I agree that he's remembering something. But I think all he's remembering is these flashes, which he does believe represent fragments of his original memory and flashes of precognition. But in fact they are actually flashes of a false-vision supplied by an outside agent, much like the false-visions that others on the island have seen.
Can they be described as precognitive if they are just memories?

It's possible that he did live his whole life through when he turned that key, the reason that he is able to see the lightning and the drowning is that reality itself changes when Desmond saves Charlie, so Desmond can remember all the ways in which Charlie is destined to snuff it because they have all happened.

That's what the course correction thing was all about I thought, you can't change it.

So when Desmond saves Charlie the life that he lived through, and the flashes of it that he gets, change as well, that's how he is able to see all the various ways in which Charlie will snuff it.
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Last edited by Richardstone; 02-20-07 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 02-20-07, 04:02 PM   #8
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Re: How many loops has Desmond "suffered"?

I have been thinking along the same lines as this...I don't think Desmond was dreaming, I think he really is skipping around time. Here are a few of my ideas of what may be going on:

Loops - You guys touched on this a little, and I think it's a good idea. I think "A Dante Recharm" was on a good path, asking how many loops has Des been on. I think once Charlie dies, then we'll know. Also, it appears that the "jumps" coincide with being hit in the head, perhaps that is the trigger for the "jump" (maybe concussion?). It’s interesting that this is sort of like that show, "Quantum Leap".

Live like Merlin? Another possibility is that turning the key smashed Desmond’s timeline in to many pieces, and are now rearranged in a different order. In doing so, he has knowledge of his entire life, even things that haven’t happened yet. This is sort of a Merlin-esque idea, in that Merlin lived his life backwards, and had foreknowledge of technologies that he gave to King Arthur.

A New Button – Lastly, it’s also possible that Desmond did in fact dream the events in London, and is only seeing possibilities of the future. For instance, how do we know that Charlie, or anyone, definitely would have died from that lightning strike? Perhaps Des’ lightning rod attracted the lightning there. And how do we know Charlie would have died saving Claire? But then the question becomes, how does Desmond not act on these premonitions? If he doesn’t, Charlie could die. Isn’t it interesting how that is similar to pushing the button: Push the button, save the world; see how Charlie could die, save Charlie. Even if Des has a doubt of whether he can save Charlie or not, the only way to find out is to not do anything. If his doubt was right, he’d be free of having to save Charlie; if it was wrong, Charlie is dead.
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Old 02-20-07, 04:22 PM   #9
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Re: How many loops has Desmond "suffered"?

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Old 02-20-07, 06:21 PM   #10
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Re: How many loops has Desmond "suffered"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardstone View Post
Can they be described as precognitive if they are just memories?

It's possible that he did live his whole life through when he turned that key, the reason that he is able to see the lightning and the drowning is that reality itself changes when Desmond saves Charlie, so Desmond can remember all the ways in which Charlie is destined to snuff it because they have all happened.

That's what the course correction thing was all about I thought, you can't change it.

So when Desmond saves Charlie the life that he lived through, and the flashes of it that he gets, change as well, that's how he is able to see all the various ways in which Charlie will snuff it.
What time loop does Hawking belong to?
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