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LOST Theories So you think you know some secrets of the island? Maybe you can explain everything. If it's original and you can back it up, we'd love to hear it.

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Old 05-24-07, 09:03 PM   #1
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+ Those timeless flashes

Much of S3, especially after the mini-hiatus, dealt with the issue of Flashes that did not come in normal time sequence. Desmonds we know. But I want to talk about the S3 finale flashes of Jack's in the same vein. You'll see where I'm going in a minute.

We got the best idea of the rules of this new game in S3 during the Desmond-centric "Flashes before your eyes." When he had turned the key at the end of S2, it seemed that Desmond flashed back to a day in his past and relived it with several subtle but important changes in the events. A mysterious cosmic know-it-all, Mrs. Hawking, explains to him that he can't really make major changes in the time stream because time-space will self-correct. Paradoxically, however, she warns him not to make the wrong choices or he may doom the planet since it was Desmond pushing the button and turning the key that saves the world. So do his choices matter or not? Can he change the future or not? It's not really clear and we're left fascinated by Hawking but no knowing whether she can be trusted. (Personally, I think she's a Smokey manifestation, but that's not germane to this discussion.) What's not explained is how she would know all this if she's just a simple woman as she appears to be. More confusing, she shows up in a photo in an unrelated Desmond flashback in a later episode. After the day-relived incident, Desmond begins have a different sort of flash, though he clearly associates the two. He sees glimpses of events that lead to Charlie's death. Even though he saves Charley, he keeps getting additional visions of rocker's impending death. This is all fascinating and is explored in some depth in several episodes.

The third type of flash that's new and the one I want to discuss in relation to these two of Desmond's, is Jack's supposed flash-forwards in the finale. Obviously these are not experienced by Jack as we see them. The narrator is just sharing them with us.

I'd like to argue that something else is going on and all of the other "flashes" stuff, as well as considerable discussions about time-space issues in "Lost," is setting us up for a different result.

Here's what I think that is:
Jack, Kate and possibly at least one other cast member are rescued. Kinda. But later is able to see that he made the wrong choice. Because time is somehow unhinged in Lost, Jack will be able to return to one of his pivotal moments of truth and set things right by making a different choice. The place where we see Jack in the future is a hellish world, akin to the debased-80s Michael J. Fox visits in the 2nd "Back to the Future." Although the ep title refers to the underwater hatch, Jack has gone "through the looking glass" to a world that is not quite right. This is because something is indeed very wrong about the "rescue" that's been prepared for them. They aren't physically escaping. The escape is going to involve navigating a distortion in space-time. However, I think we will ultimately see Jack get a chance to make a different choice. This is akin to Desmond's experiences in the day he relived. We've also seen this before in film. How many countless sci-fi scenes have involved a false but pleasing reality that the hero must reject in order to accomplish anything in the real world? In this case, the false reality isn't all that pleasing, but Jack doesn't realize how bad it is until it's too late. Or would be too late if everything worked like it normally does, which it doesn't because there's a real mess in their time-space continuum.
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Old 05-24-07, 09:48 PM   #2
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Re: Those timeless flashes

Expanding on this a bit, here are some of the hints I think we've gotten:

-- The entire Desmond flashes issue shows that time in "Lost" can in fact be altered slightly by revisiting the past.
-- The backmasking in Room 23: "Only fools...blah blah blah... by time and space"
-- The "Lost Time" anagram in Mittelos.
-- The phrase "Save yourselves from hell" (trans. from the Latin) on the Blast Door Map in S2 is a specific quote from the film "Event Horizon" in which, among other things that parallel "Lost," time comes unglued due to a scientific experiment gone bad.
-- The phrase "see you in another life" that is repeatedly used by various characters with slight changes in wording. It might seem like a hint at reincarnation, but given our games with time, it actually seems a lot like a hint that people are not all living in the same time stream.
-- Karl is seen in "Not in Portland" reading a page on black holes from a book by Stephen Hawking. Black holes can alter time-space.
-- The entire issue of repeatedly saving Charlie suggests that every time Desmond does this, he is deviating further from the original time stream. Since Charlie was originally supposed to have been hit by lightning, the island's resident musician was never suppose to play "Good Vibrations," which leads directly to contact with the rescue party.
-- The statement from Naomi (confirmed by Cooper) about Flight 851 having been found with everyone on board dead suggests that Naomi and Cooper might have come from an alternative time sequence in which everyone did die.
-- There are major time discrepancies during the flight that have never been adequately explained. Some sort of time-space disruption would be one of the few possible solutions that could account for the various anomalies. See my thread "Extended Hangtime" for a more than thorough discussion of this issue.
-- The guy on Naomi's boat who answers Jack is apparently named Minkowski. That's an obvious reference to Herman Minkowski and his idea of time as merely the fourth dimension of space. This concept allows for navigation of time quite outside the traditional bounds of human perception. This especially suggests that the "rescue" Kate and Jack experience may be something else entirely.
-- I'm going to mention this one, although I don't think it necessarily has to be valid for the rest of these points to hold up. Jack talks about his dad as if he's alive and drinking. This suggests an interpretation of the flashes in 3.22 as what happens when Kate and Jack (and perhaps someone else) are allowed to go back to an altered past in which they never went on the flight. Jack's dad never went to Australia. Kate apparently never became a fugitive. But they do remember the other life they've lived. They've been paid off by the unseen powers apparently on Naomi's boat. And they regret every dirty moment of this new life. This would be the most radical version of the theory I'm proposing and I'm not saying it has to be this extreme.
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Old 05-25-07, 01:46 PM   #3
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Re: Those timeless flashes

ETA: Duplication post deleted
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Old 05-25-07, 01:54 PM   #4
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Re: Those timeless flashes

Hmm, I said similar things here:

http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/sh...&postcount=276

and here:

http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/sh...54&postcount=1

We are thinking along the same lines.
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Old 05-25-07, 05:34 PM   #5
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Re: Those timeless flashes

TIAR,
Some similiar thinking, but I'm specifically talking about the type of split reality I've outlined. I don't think "Good Vibrations" means anything other than that it was pretty incredible that Desmond had repeatedly saved the musician's life. And I don't buy the course correction claims of Mrs. Hawking. I think that was an effort at manipulation that may somehow relate to the things that ultimately came from saving Charlie. Someone was giving Desmond information the ensure that Charlie survived long enough to enter this code. Hawking was encouraging Desmond not rescue him, even though Charlie's name never came up. The day in question was selected because that was the day he met Charlie.

But my theory is specifically about the same kind of thing happening to Jack and Kate and whoever. It's about what the meaning of the flash scenes in 3.22 are. And I'm saying that the evidence doesn't really back Hawking's course correction claims at all. (I never read that thread precisely because I don't think the claim is valid.)
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Old 05-25-07, 05:42 PM   #6
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Re: Those timeless flashes

notice how Desmond only says "see you in another life" to Jack. Perhaps because Desmond can see the future and knew that Jack's life would be miserable and he would have to go back in time to fix it just like Desmond??
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Old 05-25-07, 05:43 PM   #7
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Re: Those timeless flashes

it will be VERY interesting if we see Desmond in a future flashforward...
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Old 05-25-07, 07:15 PM   #8
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Re: Those timeless flashes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourtoes View Post
TIAR,
But my theory is specifically about the same kind of thing happening to Jack and Kate and whoever. It's about what the meaning of the flash scenes in 3.22 are. And I'm saying that the evidence doesn't really back Hawking's course correction claims at all. (I never read that thread precisely because I don't think the claim is valid.)
The premise of the Course Correcting theory is that everyone is thrust back in time to live events over again, and that means Kate and Jack too. So I am just expanding that theory to see Jack as someone who wants this to happen, so he can go back and change things (the way that Desmond did not) so that he stays on the island and things do not end up as protrayed in 3.22.

I think you should read the thread, because it deals with many more things than the claim that Mrs. Hawking made.
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Old 05-25-07, 07:24 PM   #9
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Re: Those timeless flashes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourtoes View Post
-- I'm going to mention this one, although I don't think it necessarily has to be valid for the rest of these points to hold up. Jack talks about his dad as if he's alive and drinking. This suggests an interpretation of the flashes in 3.22 as what happens when Kate and Jack (and perhaps someone else) are allowed to go back to an altered past in which they never went on the flight. Jack's dad never went to Australia. Kate apparently never became a fugitive. But they do remember the other life they've lived. They've been paid off by the unseen powers apparently on Naomi's boat. And they regret every dirty moment of this new life. This would be the most radical version of the theory I'm proposing and I'm not saying it has to be this extreme.
This is actually the only part of this theory that really has my little wheels turning, and I can't decide if I love it or hate it.

But it seems nearly... plausible. In terms of, it would explain Jack's actions in his flash-forward, how badly he wants to get back to the island, how much Kate just wants to forget it, etc.
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Old 05-25-07, 07:26 PM   #10
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Re: Those timeless flashes

very interesting...and thought provoking. My initial observance -- how does the Oceanic "Golden Ticket" and Jack's twice a hero work within your time peramiters?
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