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LOST Theories So you think you know some secrets of the island? Maybe you can explain everything. If it's original and you can back it up, we'd love to hear it.

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Old 03-11-09, 09:50 PM   #1
sgtdraino
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+ The Actual Present

I don't think I've seen anybody besides me offer this view, so I reckon I'll give it its own thread. As I said in another thread:

I disagree with some viewers over Daniel's "whatever happened, happened," statement.

I believe some are of the opinion that all of the events of Lost, past, present, and future, are basically unchangeable. That if something is prophesied to happen, it will happen. That everything is predestined.

I am of the opinion that this only applies to events in the past, and even then is not necessarily a hard fast rule.

I think the past is generally unchangeable (whatever happened, happened), but that if it ever were somehow changed in a significant paradoxical way, "every single one of us will die." I think it is almost impossible to change the past, and very very dangerous to try. If by some chance you were to succeed, then "God help us all."

However, I believe the future is another matter. I think the future is only partially written. And the only parts that are written, are those parts that interact with the past, via time-travel. All other future events are "negotiable," so long as the events that are linked to the past happen as they must.

I think that, on Lost, we observe something I term the "actual present." This is the point at which the past ends, and the future begins. When this series began, that "actual present" was in 2004. Many events that happened from that point on were "negotiable," except for those events that directly lead to our Losties traveling back in time to interact with the past. Those events were predestined, they had to happen in order to preserve history.

The best example of my theory in action, is when Daniel bangs on the hatch in 2004 and tells Desmond to go see his mother. Desmond then immediately forgets ever meeting Daniel, until four years later, when he suddenly wakes up and remembers the event with crystal clarity. That's because in Season 5, the "actual present" is now late 2008/early 2009. Desmond was able to remember the event once the past finally caught up with the present, and the future became "negotiable."

Desmond's future flashes, of Locke giving a speech, and Charlie dying in various ways, were never things that must be, they were only things that might be. Desmond was seeing probabilities, because the future is only partially written.
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Old 03-11-09, 10:17 PM   #2
Tambourine Man
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Re: The Actual Present

I agree with this, but also think that Desmond happens to be someone who can break the is-what-it-is and has to happen that way structure of maybe even certain pasts as well as the actual present so to speak. Daniel did say he was the only one uniquely able to remember something new in the past and I like exactly what you said about it being sometime later for him to remember because of the time he had been off the island coincided with the probable time the Losties where on the island and flashing (given the time difference of the island to the rest of the world)... This is why when Desmond was in that helicopter and knew nothing of where he was how his past self which to him seemed like the present was able to know that everything was all right after leaving Penny's apartment. While he was walking away in 96' I believe, 2004 Desmond calls Penny on the date he had just set up in 96' once his 2004 self is "fixed" by Penny being his Constant, it was like his 96' self automatically knew his 96' self was fixed as well. I think if this had happened before as some have suggested all along then he would have had some way of sensing while on the island that experience in 96' had something to do with why he was there but he didn't. People point out that Daniel and Desmond never saw each other on the island as proof but i think that was more for Daniel's benefit than Desmond's because i believe he wouldn't have remembered him (He being Desmond)... Because as I said before Desmond is certainly special to all the the rules!

I also love the "God help us all" you mentioned. To me it means exactly what you explained about course-correcting not always working and different futures than the universe intended aren't impossible but just very scary to predict!
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Old 03-11-09, 10:21 PM   #3
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Re: The Actual Present

Hi Sgt.

I do agree with your theory (Which might just indicate it is completely wrong )

I think the future has to be unwritten. Otherwise, why bother. I think the fact that so many seem to make so much effort to position and influence people this way and that, speaks to the validity of what you are proposing. They wouldn't make so much of an effort trying to influence people if they new FOR CERTAIN what the outcome was.

I also agree that your perception of what is a fixed event and a variable event is based solely on your own perspective. For Sawyer and the Losties that is now - the current time for them, not 1974, or any other time.
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Old 03-11-09, 11:45 PM   #4
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Re: The Actual Present

Lately I have been thinking about what Ms. Hawking said in that episode, about how if Ben couldn't get all the O5, then "god help us all." What would be so terrible if the O5 did not return? From this i get the sense that something has gone wrong in the past and has to be made good again. So if the past cannot change then this is a problem. Of course, once time travel is added into the mix then past, present and future all become sort of relative.
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Old 03-13-09, 07:15 PM   #5
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Re: The Actual Present

I think we all need to take a closer look at the “whatever happened…happened” mantra that is going around these days. Yeah …maybe on paper and maybe that’s how its “supposed” to be…but I think whatever happened…actually got changed...and that is why this whole thing is going on...
whatever happened ...got changed=LOST
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Old 03-13-09, 09:47 PM   #6
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Re: The Actual Present

We actually already know part of the more complete answer to why Hawking and Ben knew how important it was to get all of the O6: They are part of the island's history, so not getting them would cause a paradox.

But that never proves nor disproves the theory in this thread. We won't actually know for certain until we see the past alterred. And not just alterred in perception, but really changed.

I'm of the opinion that this theory will only be correct if the parameters that Faraday is currently assuming end up being removed. For instance, if Faraday realizes they are in an alternative reality, THEN the past can be changed. (However, that is lame and I hope they don't go there.)
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Old 03-14-09, 04:11 AM   #7
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Re: The Actual Present

sgtdraino,

I was thinking something similar last year in a theory called the moment after the absolute present,http://http://www.losttv-forum.com/f...solute+present, to me, the "actual" present is a time in the future of the show that we haven seen yet, the furtherst point in history where someone has traveled backwards in time, and that this has created a time loop. Within that loop, people can travel forward (but not past the absolute present) and backwards, and events are malliable (but that there is only so much you can change from the last trip around without course correction kicking in).
The future, the time past the absolute present, is not set at all, and when we and the losties get to that point, I think they will have to make a terrible choice, go on into the future and accept whatever has happened, or take the time machine back and relive everything again.
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Old 03-14-09, 04:50 AM   #8
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Re: The Actual Present

As stated elsewhere: From the PoV of the end of time, EVERYTHING is the past.

Whatever happened, happened.

Just put it in your brain and deal with it.
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Old 03-14-09, 12:41 PM   #9
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Re: The Actual Present

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z054J View Post
As stated elsewhere: From the PoV of the end of time, EVERYTHING is the past.

Whatever happened, happened.

Just put it in your brain and deal with it.
The great thing about theories is exploring different possibilities and not limiting thought processes.

The current mantra "whatever happened, happened" ignores the instances we were shown that illustrate change is possible. Therefore "whatever happened, happened" is not a true statement and as such is not acceptable and sadly limits exploration into other possibilities.

onbarnett
Quote:
The future, the time past the absolute present, is not set at all,
And I'm wondering when the absolute present is? We saw Widmore tell Locke that he needed to go back because there was a war coming and then he insinuated that Locke through his "special" designation needs to be there. This sounds like future information much like Hawking telling Desmond in the past that he doesn't buy the ring.
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Old 03-14-09, 12:58 PM   #10
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Re: The Actual Present

Quote:
The current mantra dogma "whatever happened, happened" ignores the instances we were shown that illustrate change is possible.
Fixed it for you.

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