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LOST Theories So you think you know some secrets of the island? Maybe you can explain everything. If it's original and you can back it up, we'd love to hear it.

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Old 05-20-09, 06:56 PM   #1
crazyrussian
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+ Multiple Timelines and Everything That Rises Must Converge

I have been thinking about WHH and Free Will and possibility of multiple time lines and how would that all work if it was real.

Now here is what I have come up with:

Think of a timeline without any time-travel whatsoever. In this case time is linear, but is still influenced by free choices people make, but people get to make this choice only once, and there is always one outcome because it always only happens once.

Now bring time-travel and free will into this equation and you get situation where this single time-line can be influenced and branched off.

However there is course-correcting that puts strong influence on alternative time-line to converge with what is "supposed" to happen, i.e. the main single no-time-travel timeline.

So lets say Desmond decided to save the red-shoes guy and lets call this "crucial" event because its Desmond's free will changing what was supposed to happen.

The new timeline would attempt to merge (or course-correct) to previous one by having red-shoes die from some other cause, and try to minimize the "ripple" effect of this change.

However the ripple effect does happen, but is minimized.

I think significance of Jacob reading "Everything that rises must converge" is not the literary content of the book but the name itself.

All free-choice alternations to the main timeline must converge together, but end-result of convergence is not the exact same time line that existed before.

Perhaps this is what Jacob calls "progress"?

Also consider 815 on the bottom of the Ocean and the fact that it's not Seth Norris as the pilot and Lapidus complains about that. Perhaps this is a result of a different sort of convergence with a main timeline. In other words when Desmond caused the crash 815 crashed on the island and in the Ocean simultaneously. So one copy went into Ocean the other on the Island. Or perhaps it wasn't Desmond and the plane was just supposed to crash without any Island.

This brings interesting ways to reflect on how the rules of "convergence" work on the Island.

Last edited by crazyrussian; 05-20-09 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 05-21-09, 04:10 AM   #2
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Re: Multiple Timelines and Everything That Rises Must Converge

I like this. I too think the book was significant mainly for its title. So course correction creates the convergence? Is the "everything that rises" the progress that humankind makes?
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Old 05-21-09, 04:19 AM   #3
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Re: Multiple Timelines and Everything That Rises Must Converge

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Originally Posted by time is a river View Post
I like this. I too think the book was significant mainly for its title. So course correction creates the convergence? Is the "everything that rises" the progress that humankind makes?

I think its more like a free will that is aware of time travel tries to affect the time, but it must converge to one universal timeline. So we have a bunch of agents that can influence past, future and present, so their free will choices coupled with some awareness of the future is "rising", but it must converge to one universal timeline.
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Old 05-21-09, 12:46 PM   #4
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Re: Multiple Timelines and Everything That Rises Must Converge

It's delicious literature, too, and quite apt for our Lost story.
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Old 05-22-09, 06:35 PM   #5
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Re: Multiple Timelines and Everything That Rises Must Converge

I read the short story after seeing it in the show. I think people are assuming converge to mean the joining of two paths, whereas in the story it was about a limit. Everything that rises must have a limit, also a definition of convergence. The irony is that Locke was falling as he was reading that.

Something else I noticed. I call TFJL Easu. On the beach Jacob offered him some fish, he said he already ate. That part of the conversation lingered awkwardly, until I realized it was sarcasm. Easu sold his birthright to Jacob for a bowl of stew in the Bible. "I already ate..." Easu saw no value in spiritual or sacred things, hence selling his birthright for one lunch. Jacob did see the value and was rewarded for that.
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Old 05-22-09, 07:10 PM   #6
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Re: Multiple Timelines and Everything That Rises Must Converge

crazyrussian, I've thought about this in much the same way and call it a quantum probability time line or the reverse butterfly effect. Measure any interval of time, and there is a range of states that it can be in that "collapse" once observed back into the original timeline. Traveling to the past allows you to "reopen" the probablities, and choose a slightly different path, but it doesn't mean you can do anything, and it also doesn't mean that you can neccessarily change the future either, as the timeline wants to collapse back to its original state.

I think that is someone were smart enought, and new enought about all the "threads" of different peoples lives and how they weave togeather, they could change the future by very carefully affecting events in the past. This is way beyond Daniel and his "lets blow up the Swan station" idea, that would be a, well, nuclear bomb compared to the precise incisions I think would be necessary to adjust the future.
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Old 05-22-09, 08:23 PM   #7
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Re: Multiple Timelines and Everything That Rises Must Converge

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Originally Posted by onbarnett View Post
crazyrussian, I've thought about this in much the same way and call it a quantum probability time line or the reverse butterfly effect. Measure any interval of time, and there is a range of states that it can be in that "collapse" once observed back into the original timeline. Traveling to the past allows you to "reopen" the probablities, and choose a slightly different path, but it doesn't mean you can do anything, and it also doesn't mean that you can neccessarily change the future either, as the timeline wants to collapse back to its original state.

I think that is someone were smart enought, and new enought about all the "threads" of different peoples lives and how they weave togeather, they could change the future by very carefully affecting events in the past. This is way beyond Daniel and his "lets blow up the Swan station" idea, that would be a, well, nuclear bomb compared to the precise incisions I think would be necessary to adjust the future.
I agree. I didn't say that someone could change the future, but that they certainly can make free choices and that these choices would affect present, and the future but there are rules about how these effects propagate which I do not claim to know.

Yea, probably someone who is almost omniscient about time and the rules of this convergence can influence things precisely how they want them to by influencing the free agents, or the people who are capable of making free choices.
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Old 05-25-09, 03:03 PM   #8
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Re: Multiple Timelines and Everything That Rises Must Converge

A coincidence is a type of convergence.
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Old 05-25-09, 07:13 PM   #9
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Re: Multiple Timelines and Everything That Rises Must Converge

Quote:
Originally Posted by jane_eire View Post
A coincidence is a type of convergence.
The first time something happens it is an accident.
The second time is a coincidence.
The third time is happenstance.
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Old 05-26-09, 02:38 AM   #10
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Re: Multiple Timelines and Everything That Rises Must Converge

I like this, I think you are right about the meaning of "everything that rises must converge" --- it is symbolic statement. I also like the reference to Esau already eating, how clever and appropriate. thank you
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