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Old 04-10-10, 06:43 PM   #11
swelsh
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Re: So why did Ben kill Locke..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unlocke Locke View Post
I remember that Christian said Locke was gonna have to die. Knowing what we know now, Christian is probably MiB so maybe Christian or MIB told Ben to kill Locke so the reenactment could take place on Ajira - since they would need to have a coffin on the flight. Even though it wasn't Christian's body, Locke did have his shoes on.

I dont know that it had anything to do with jealousy, because when Ben walked in on Locke, Locke was already in the process of commiting suicide. I think the rules were that Ben had to kill him. Locke commiting suicide would be violating the terms of the game.
Remember, it was MIB as Flocke who told Richard to go take the bullet out of John Locke and tell him he had to bring everyone back and that he would have to die. Christian (who I think was acting for MIB) just confirmed to John that he would die. He said that is why it's called a sacrifice.

My feeling is that Ben was trying to regain his power by eliminating John.
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Old 04-10-10, 07:38 PM   #12
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Re: So why did Ben kill Locke..?

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Originally Posted by moonknight View Post
Also, one more thing about Ben. In the previous seasons.. didn't it seem like it was Ben versus Widmore for the island?? Now it's Widmore versus MIB... and Ben is just on the side doing nothing... so is Ben suddenly not important anymore??
It looks the the beachers are headed for the Hydra, so Ben, Alpert and Widmore might be together for a little gossip session. That could seal the deal as to the back story.
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Old 04-10-10, 09:06 PM   #13
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Re: So why did Ben kill Locke..?

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Originally Posted by swelsh View Post
Remember, it was MIB as Flocke who told Richard to go take the bullet out of John Locke and tell him he had to bring everyone back
That's actually interesting to reflect on, and doesn't seem to make sense based on what we've seen. You're right, it is MiB who introduces this idea that everyone must return to The Island:

Quote:
LOCKE: It's a Beechcraft; used to smuggle heroin. It flew out of Nigeria; crashed here. Alright, Richard, listen very carefully because you're only gonna have about... three minutes to get this right.

RICHARD: Get what right?

LOCKE: A man's about to walk out of the jungle. He's been shot in the leg.

[Locke reaches down and grabs his pack, which he hands to Richard.]

LOCKE: You'll need this to get the bullet out.

RICHARD: Uh, I'm sorry, John but I'm not-

LOCKE: (interrupting) Now just listen. This is the important part. You're gonna need to tell him that he has to bring everyone who left... back to the Island. And when he asks how to do that... you tell him he's gonna have to die.
But bringing these candidates back to The Island seems to be contrary to MiB's plan in Season 6, which involves either killing or removing all candidates from The Island, so that he can leave it. Bringing everyone back seems more like Jacob's plan... and yet it is MiB who tells Locke to do it.

Of further interest, is how much more stuff Richard tells Locke, that MiB did not relay to him:

Quote:
LOCKE: Richard?

RICHARD: [smiles] Hey John.

[Richard approaches Locke and sits next to him.]

LOCKE: Richard what is happening?

RICHARD: What is happening is you're bleeding to death. Here…

[Richard puts down is pack and rips Locke's pant leg open. Locke groans.]

RICHARD: I need to get the bullet out.

[Richard takes out a Dharma med kit.]

LOCKE: How did you know there was a bullet in my leg Richard?

RICHARD: Because you told me there was John.

LOCKE: No, no , no I didn't.

RICHARD: Well, you will.

LOCKE: It was Ethan who shot me.

RICHARD: Well, [puts on glasses] what comes around goes around.

[Richard pours a clear liquid onto the wound and John winces.]

LOCKE: Uhhh! [pauses] When am I?

RICHARD: Well, John that's all relative.

[Richard continues to tend to Locke's wound. He is using a set of forceps to remove the bullet.]

LOCKE: Wait! Wait! The noise, when the sky lit up, where did you go?

RICHARD: I didn’t go anywhere John. You went. Alright this, this is gonna hurt. It'll be a lot worse if you move, ok? Hold still. Ready?

[Richard proceeds to remove the bullet from Locke's thigh. Locke winces and reaches for Richard's shoulder. The bullet is removed.]

RICHARD: Hold on!

LOCKE: I don't understand. How, how did you know that I was here? How did you know where to find me?

RICHARD: I wish I had time to explain it John but you're going to be moving on soon and we need to go over a couple of things before you move...

LOCKE: [groans]Moving on?

[Locke groans in pain as Richard bandages his wound.]

RICHARD: Sorry. First thing ok. You're gonna need to clean out the wound every couple of hours and keep as much weight off the leg as you can. Alright? The island will do the rest John.

LOCKE: [interrupts Richard] But, I don’t….

RICHARD: Second thing, now pay attention! Next time we see each other I'm not gonna recognize you. Alright? You give me this.

[Richard hands Locke a compass.]

LOCKE: What is this?

RICHARD: It's a compass.

LOCKE: What does it do?

RICHARD: It points north John. Look I wish I had time to be more sensitive about this because it's a lot to swallow. But you need to know it in order to do what you gotta so I am just gonna say it ok? The only way to save the island John is to get your people back here, the ones who left.

LOCKE: Jack? Kate? The chopper was headed for the boat, the boat…

RICHARD: They're fine and they're already home. So you have to convince them to come back.

LOCKE: How? How am I supposed to do that?

RICHARD: You're gonna have to die John.
The bolded bits are things Richard said which did not come from MiB.
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Old 04-11-10, 01:15 AM   #14
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Re: So why did Ben kill Locke..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdraino View Post
The bolded bits are things Richard said which did not come from MiB.
Good catch!

It seems like Richard knows some things about this scheme. This makes his behavior in Ab Aeterno even more difficult to understand.
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Old 04-11-10, 01:15 AM   #15
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Re: So why did Ben kill Locke..?

Jacob's death imo made Ben immaterial to Widmore, or at least lower down on the things to do list. I do think MIB tried to force the issue tho, when he attempted to get Ben to go to Hydra, knowing that Widmore was there waiting. But I don't think their little spat is done with.

Thanks for the highlights Sgt...I'd watched that episode again the other night for another reason and I had glossed over the fact that Richard adds more information. It makes perfect sense that it's a Jacobean move, since Jacob makes the maneuvers to get Sayid and Hurley back on Ajira.

ETA...I'm not sure Alpert's behavior is all that out of character now in light of what Sgt points out, in fact, I think it puts it more in character. If Jacob is still alive, he's getting some sort of information passed along to him as to what to do or say, or he at least feels emboldened to act as tho he is getting fed important information (I'm still not sure how in tune with Jacob Richard actually is)...but it seems consistent that after Jacob's death, Richard would have no idea what to do next. Richard's anger at Jacob/ultra-cluelessness was because Richard never got to the end of the road before Jake died, imo.

Last edited by kbailey3131; 04-11-10 at 01:19 AM.
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Old 04-11-10, 02:51 AM   #16
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Re: So why did Ben kill Locke..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by swelsh View Post
Remember, it was MIB as Flocke who told Richard to go take the bullet out of John Locke and tell him he had to bring everyone back and that he would have to die. Christian (who I think was acting for MIB) just confirmed to John that he would die. He said that is why it's called a sacrifice.

My feeling is that Ben was trying to regain his power by eliminating John.

No I was talking about the other time when John was going down the well and they time travelled and he fell in and hurt his leg. This is when Christian appeared to him (which I think now that Christian may be MiB) and told John he was going to have to die to get everyone back the the island.
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Old 04-13-10, 08:03 PM   #17
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Re: So why did Ben kill Locke..?

Both Jacob and MiB needed to get the candidates back to the island.
Some of the Losties were on both their lists.
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Old 04-14-10, 12:17 AM   #18
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Re: So why did Ben kill Locke..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdraino View Post
That's actually interesting to reflect on, and doesn't seem to make sense based on what we've seen. You're right, it is MiB who introduces this idea that everyone must return to The Island:



But bringing these candidates back to The Island seems to be contrary to MiB's plan in Season 6, which involves either killing or removing all candidates from The Island, so that he can leave it. Bringing everyone back seems more like Jacob's plan... and yet it is MiB who tells Locke to do it.

Of further interest, is how much more stuff Richard tells Locke, that MiB did not relay to him:



The bolded bits are things Richard said which did not come from MiB.
Two things: 1. MIB does bring up the compass, although he doesn't say what to do with it. (Deleted line?)

2. Other than that it just sounds like embellishment on Richard's part. The scene would be boring if Richard just repeated MIB verbatim.

Seems to me like the writing doesn't flesh out the ideas for any one character, and it relies on the audience understanding the overall thing that's being set up here. The picking apart seems like a bit much to me.
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Old 04-14-10, 02:46 PM   #19
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Re: So why did Ben kill Locke..?

Just seems to me that Ben has been serving as an agent for MiB all along:

  • Executes the purge
  • Kills John so his body can be retaken by MiB
  • Stabs Jacob
  • Working against Widmore
  • Freaks out at the mention of Eloise Hawking as if he cannot allow Locke to become part of her plan
So the question now is he sort of a spy working for MiB in Richard's camp. Richard wants to ensure MiB doesn't get off the island and Ben chooses to stick with him, possibly to monitor him or even kill him soon?

Maybe MiB made a promise to Ben that his life would change for the better in the Alt if he took care of him. We've seen the back story of Richard's meeting with MiB, but what if Ben was given the same deal? Or what if Ben was healed by MiB not Jacob when Sayid shot him as a boy? His loyalty then would be to MiB and not Jacob.

I just don't think Ben is that insignificant at this point, I think the writers have put him in the trunk to give more back story to MiB vs. Jacob but we will find out soon that Ben comes back into play.
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Old 04-17-10, 08:38 PM   #20
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Re: So why did Ben kill Locke..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by widmoresboy View Post
Just seems to me that Ben has been serving as an agent for MiB all along:

  • Executes the purge
  • Kills John so his body can be retaken by MiB
  • Stabs Jacob
  • Working against Widmore
  • Freaks out at the mention of Eloise Hawking as if he cannot allow Locke to become part of her plan
So the question now is he sort of a spy working for MiB in Richard's camp. Richard wants to ensure MiB doesn't get off the island and Ben chooses to stick with him, possibly to monitor him or even kill him soon?

Maybe MiB made a promise to Ben that his life would change for the better in the Alt if he took care of him. We've seen the back story of Richard's meeting with MiB, but what if Ben was given the same deal? Or what if Ben was healed by MiB not Jacob when Sayid shot him as a boy? His loyalty then would be to MiB and not Jacob.

I just don't think Ben is that insignificant at this point, I think the writers have put him in the trunk to give more back story to MiB vs. Jacob but we will find out soon that Ben comes back into play.
I like your reasoning. I have felt that there is more to Ben than we have been told even thought he has been a main character for some time now. The part he played in getting Ben and the others back to the island is mysterious. His connection with Hawking is very odd. At first he seems afraid of her then he seems to be working with her.
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